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SAS Operating in Ireland (Republic of)

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Comments

  • #2


    shaneybaby wrote: »
    Any idea of a name or around when this happened? Really interested in this if you can, sound.

    its in the OP - 1976.

    team one were on a job, crossed the border in plain clothes and an unmarked car - met a Gardai checkpoint where they were searched, found to be in possession of weapons and arrested. a toolled up team two go looking for the now missing, and radio silent, team one and meet the same Gardai checkpoint where the same thing happens.

    it was a fcuk up.


  • #2


    That was the 70s. Things were bad. Flares. Glam rock. Map reading errors were common.
    Then it was the 80s. Things were worse. What went on then is the question?

    MI6 would have alway had people operating and coming and going on tourist trips around Ireland. My guess is after the Libyan arms shipments in the mid 1980s there was probably renewed 'tourism' to help locate same items.

    You'd be very naive to think SAS people wouldn't cross the border, either in civvies or ghillied up to the nines. Covertness would be the name of the game...'not taking people out for a chat'. The Provos had forward stores bases a car drive away from the border....places where quartermasters could assemble gear and leave it for a crew.....these needed to be spotted/jarked......etc.

    They would have at least tried it a few times. Not to mention overhead photo recce probably.....

    Really what is the fuss....what would expect them to do?

    Boo Hoo.


  • #2


    Avgas wrote: »
    That was the 70s. Things were bad. Flares. Glam rock. Map reading errors were common.
    Then it was the 80s. Things were worse. What went on then is the question?

    MI6 would have alway had people operating and coming and going on tourist trips around Ireland. My guess is after the Libyan arms shipments in the mid 1980s there was probably renewed 'tourism' to help locate same items.

    You'd be very naive to think SAS people wouldn't cross the border, either in civvies or ghillied up to the nines. Covertness would be the name of the game...'not taking people out for a chat'. The Provos had forward stores bases a car drive away from the border....places where quartermasters could assemble gear and leave it for a crew.....these needed to be spotted/jarked......etc.

    They would have at least tried it a few times. Not to mention overhead photo recce probably.....

    Really what is the fuss....what would expect them to do?

    Boo Hoo.

    That explains the Irish tourism boom in the 80's/90's then :D


  • #2


    What would happen if you shot an SAS guy on one of their incursions into the Republic?

    Would you be tried in the normal way or would their be any legal way out of it if you thought they were coming to "occupy"? I know this is far fetched in the extreme but just wondering?

    You would be guilty of murder, if you killed them, attempted murder if not. End of.


  • #2


    OS119 wrote: »
    its a matter of public record, it happened.

    misreading maps that are not accurate to within less than a meter is actually pretty easy - it doesn't take much to put a line on a map in the wrong place when the line on the ground isn't obvious and goes all over the place. getting it wrong in practice even when the map is correct is just as easy - just think about how many times you've got lost in your car while trying to read a map, then think about how easy it would be to get lost when you're also spending most of your time making sure you aren't driving into an ambush.

    Its easy to misread a map... but for 'the elite special forces' who are supposed to memorise routes and missions back to front and write the manuals on map reading - i doubt they misread a map in ireland of all places where there are towns and villages every five minutes down the road. We are a fairly well sign posted Island, not like 200 miles in the Iraqi desert.
    It was an obvious excuse to be a few miles over the border looking into someones back garden or whatever.
    Its the job of special forces soldiers to operate 'undetected.' likewise in the 70 - 80 - 90's it was very easy for them to monitor phonecalls/landlines in the south too, just a matter of having the equipment and accessing the metal eircom box at the end of the road.

    Everyone associates the SAS in NI with killings and yes i know the shoot to kill policy and all that, yes people were shot and killed obviously - but intelligence gathering wasmuch moreso the day to day main role of those units.


  • #2


    You can be sure that special forces cross the border if and when they feel like it , its what they are trained to do.
    Also,we will never know the extent of it


  • #2


    You would be guilty of murder, if you killed them, attempted murder if not. End of.

    A manslaughter plea would more than likely be accepted...


  • #2


    You would be guilty of murder, if you killed them, attempted murder if not. End of.

    In general, not related to Ireland or UK.

    If you are a soldier or another armed member of a government service or a recognised belligerent party in identifiable uniform and openly armed it would be a legitimate act of war if there was an ongoing conflict under international law.

    If you're a sneaky type in civilian clothes not carrying arms openly and out on your own bat you'd be simply trying to unlawfully kill someone.


  • #2


    charlemont wrote: »
    A manslaughter plea would more than likely be accepted...

    manslaughter is what happens when you unintentionally kill someone - if we have a bar brawl, i punch you, you fall backwards and hit your head hard enough to kill you on a kerbstone then i'm guilty of manslaughter because my actions lead to your death, but i'm not guilty of murder because i didn't intend to kill you or cause you serious injury.

    justifiable homicide is what happens when i take physical action to stop you doing something that i believe will cause either me, or other people, serious harm or even death. the test is both whether the action i took was reasonable, given what i believed to be true at the time, and whether it was reasonable for me to believe what i believed at the time.


  • #2


    Dean0088 wrote: »
    Just to clarify on the first guy to reply they wern't exactly invading... Plain clothes SAS guys ... not in full combat gear etc ... :P


    Also, I DO KNOW FOR DEFINITE that AGS used to send a couple of squad cars into derry (unmarked) and pick up some targets (IRA Mostly) and bring them back to the station in Donegal and say they arrested them in the south.

    A Garda sergent was interviewed about in on RTE a while back,.

    Unmarked Garda cars go through the North all the time on their way to Donegal or to liase with the PSNI. IIRC they require special permits.


  • #2


    Dean0088 wrote: »
    Anyone ever hear about this?

    I've been told countless times that the SAS were known to come down over the border to the Republic to Dublin and Limrick during The Troubles to pick up a few guys they wanted to 'talk to' or maybe just get rid of people.:eek:

    I've also been told that a couple of times they were caught (once by an RDF patrol along the border and again by a garda), arrested and then quietly given a lift back up to the border and told to play nice...

    Anyone any info on this? Is it true?

    Cheers,
    Dean.

    the rdf never done any thing during the troubles ...so that bit is not true..


  • #2


    The FCÁ did though.


  • #2


    In general, not related to Ireland or UK.

    If you are a soldier or another armed member of a government service or a recognised belligerent party in identifiable uniform and openly armed it would be a legitimate act of war if there was an ongoing conflict under international law.

    If you're a sneaky type in civilian clothes not carrying arms openly and out on your own bat you'd be simply trying to unlawfully kill someone.


    But.... Red Dawn :(


  • #2


    concussion wrote: »
    The FCÁ did though.

    dont think the fca would have been out on the roads thats a bit far fetched...fca in the 70s with WW2 equipment....and the pdf 25,000 strong back then dont think there be any need for them.....the fca still dont do any thing.


  • #2


    don18 wrote: »
    dont think the fca would have been out on the roads thats a bit far fetched...fca in the 70s with WW2 equipment....and the pdf 25,000 strong back then dont think there be any need for them.....the fca still dont do any thing.

    Well the fact that the FCÁ dont exist would make it hard for them to do anything


  • #2


    i know for a fact the eru branch of the gardai carry out operations in the north these days. they are constantly working with and for the police service of northern ireland and will continue to do so in the future!


  • #2


    don18 wrote: »
    dont think the fca would have been out on the roads thats a bit far fetched...fca in the 70s with WW2 equipment....and the pdf 25,000 strong back then dont think there be any need for them.....the fca still dont do any thing.

    You might think otherwise, but many reservists served on the border and some were eventually absorbed into the PDF, maintaining their FCÁ rank.


  • #2


    concussion wrote: »
    You might think otherwise, but many reservists served on the border and some were eventually absorbed into the PDF, maintaining their FCÁ rank.

    fair enough ;)


  • #2


    flas wrote: »
    i know for a fact the eru branch of the gardai carry out operations in the north these days. they are constantly working with and for the police service of northern ireland and will continue to do so in the future!

    I doubt that. I'd say they cross train with PSNI? yeah. But armed gardai operating in the north? There'd be holy war. Why? Why when the PSNI's own version - the HMSU/SSU are light years ahead of the ERU in terms of experience and actual operations etc... Can't see ERU being authorised like that. Cross border? (i.e. you go on one side i'll go the other) but to operate 'across the border' is another thing altogether.


  • #2


    don18 wrote: »
    dont think the fca would have been out on the roads thats a bit far fetched...fca in the 70s with WW2 equipment....and the pdf 25,000 strong back then dont think there be any need for them.....the fca still dont do any thing.

    Yes they were and not just the lads on full time security either. In Western Command area Lads from 24th 19th and 17th Bns all had vital installations to guard in addition mobile patrols were done by FCÁ pers with 303 rifles(pre WW2 equipment)!


  • #2


    don18 wrote: »
    dont think the fca would have been out on the roads thats a bit far fetched...fca in the 70s with WW2 equipment....and the pdf 25,000 strong back then dont think there be any need for them.....the fca still dont do any thing.


    I have 3 S/NCOs who served a few months up on the boarder who would beg to differ.

    Also regarding SAS operating in Republican pubs. SAS are SF, inteligence gathering is a lot of what they do. The bog standard SAS man was not however known to be effective at covertly infilitrating Republican Pubs and pulling off an Irish accent.

    They mostly nipped about sporting dodgey tache's and manning OPs. The 14Intelligence Company (closely involved with the SAS) aka the Det did however do such sneaky beaky type ops.

    Great book on them called the operators http://www.amazon.co.uk/Operators-Inside-Intelligence-Company-Secret/dp/0099728710


  • #2


    Locust wrote: »
    Its easy to misread a map... but for 'the elite special forces' who are supposed to memorise routes and missions back to front and write the manuals on map reading - i doubt they misread a map in ireland of all places where there are towns and villages every five minutes down the road. We are a fairly well sign posted Island, not like 200 miles in the Iraqi desert.
    It was an obvious excuse to be a few miles over the border looking into someones back garden or whatever.
    Its the job of special forces soldiers to operate 'undetected.' likewise in the 70 - 80 - 90's it was very easy for them to monitor phonecalls/landlines in the south too, just a matter of having the equipment and accessing the metal eircom box at the end of the road.

    Everyone associates the SAS in NI with killings and yes i know the shoot to kill policy and all that, yes people were shot and killed obviously - but intelligence gathering wasmuch moreso the day to day main role of those units.

    Another one who has never been to the border, but feels qualified to comment on it's geography.
    The CP i most frequently worked on was 15 miles from the nearest town in the Republic, and there was no streetsigns. The border was considered to exist "between here and the crossroads a mile down the road" and "somewhere in that large field".


  • #2


    Dean0088 wrote: »
    Anyone ever hear about this?

    I've been told countless times that the SAS were known to come down over the border to the Republic to Dublin and Limrick during The Troubles to pick up a few guys they wanted to 'talk to' or maybe just get rid of people.:eek:

    I've also been told that a couple of times they were caught (once by an RDF patrol along the border and again by a garda), arrested and then quietly given a lift back up to the border and told to play nice...

    Anyone any info on this? Is it true?

    Cheers,
    Dean.

    theres actually a book on the subject. the sas more than likely operate in ireland but it doesnt mean they go around with bergens on their backs and sa 80 rifles in their arms. they operate like fru and gather intelligence, photographs, number plates and the likes. their scummy b.astards imo. louth would be an area they operate in alot id say.


  • #2


    flas wrote: »
    i know for a fact the eru branch of the gardai carry out operations in the north these days. they are constantly working with and for the police service of northern ireland and will continue to do so in the future!

    the emergency response unit works in the 6 counties? is this independently or do they work under the psni? i often thought about this


  • #2


    paky wrote: »
    theres actually a book on the subject. the sas more than likely operate in ireland but it doesnt mean they go around with bergens on their backs and sa 80 rifles in their arms. they operate like fru and gather intelligence, photographs, number plates and the likes. their scummy b.astards imo. louth would be an area they operate in alot id say.


    The SAS? Or the worthless wastes of flesh and blood they would have been keeping an eye on?


  • #2


    gatecrash wrote: »
    The SAS? Or the worthless wastes of flesh and blood they would have been keeping an eye on?

    Yes the SAS. Its a matter of perspective you see.


  • #2


    paky wrote: »
    Yes the SAS. Its a matter of perspective you see.

    I'd say personal opinion more than perspective.

    Either way i'd say we'd be poles apart on it!! :)


  • #2


    gatecrash wrote: »
    I'd say personal opinion more than perspective.

    Either way i'd say we'd be poles apart on it!! :)

    fare enough.


  • #2


    Another one who has never been to the border, but feels qualified to comment on it's geography.

    I have worked with military and I've lived on the border most of my life (on both sides) and probably travelled along it more times than you had hot dinners... point is SAS knew exactly where they were, (some of them lived there for a few years!). People sometimes want to glamourise the border areas out to be some kind of wilds of alaska bandit country - it ain't.


  • #2


    Locust wrote: »
    I have worked with military and I've lived on the border most of my life (on both sides) and probably travelled along it more times than you had hot dinners... point is SAS knew exactly where they were, (some of them lived there for a few years!). People sometimes want to glamourise the border areas out to be some kind of wilds of alaska bandit country - it ain't.

    Does that include the hot dinners I've had on the border?
    I have to ask, how old are you? Not being funny, but it was very different pre 1996. I was shocked how built up the area became post ceasefire. Donegal was unrecognisable from its pre ceasefire days.
    Before that, you'd know you were north because of all the PVCPs, and you only knew you were south because of the absence of them. The area around Keady was particularly remote, and there were NO useful geographic landmarks, apart from the crossroads you had to reach to know you had gone too far.


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