B.Sc. in Aviation Management/B.Sc in Aviation Management with Pilot Studies points ?

!MAVERICK!

B.Sc. in Aviation Management/B.Sc in Aviation Management with Pilot Studies.

This is my number one course for my CAO application this year, Its one of the very few courses thats related to aviation and allows students to study for their PPL and later ATPL excluding actual flight training.

2010's points were 420. I can imagine this is going to be a very popular course for 2011, 3 students in my year alone including myself want to do it. There are only 40 places available from what Ive heard.

Can we assume the points requirement will rise to 450 - 500 or would you only expect a minor increase or even no increase for 2011?

If anyone reading this is on this course, could you give me your feedback on your experience. Thank you.

Heres a link to the official webpage http://www.dcu.ie/prospective/deginfo.php?classname=AMPS&degree_description=B.Sc.+in+Aviation+Management/B.Sc+in+Aviation+Management+with+Pilot+Studies

H2G2

It was DCU's most popular course last year, but remember as its new (and unique) there is a market boost effect. A 30-70 point jump would be unheard of. Expect 10-30 point to be a more realistic increase. But with all the other factors going on in teh market, its hard to predict.

MightyDucks

Would there be any hope of someone getting in as a mature student into this course without the required points but already have a private pilot licence.

stringy

MightyDucks wrote: »

Would there be any hope of someone getting in as a mature student into this course without the required points but already have a private pilot licence.

Points don't come into consideration for mature entry into any course in DCU, this being no exception.

Entry is evaluated on suitability, motivation and experience. Therefore previous pilot experience will stand to you.

For entry as a mature student, visit www.dcu.ie/mature

There is an open evening TONIGHT Tuesday 11 Jan at 7pm with a talk on entry as a mature student. www.dcu.ie/cao

Kavrocks

I'm not in this course but I had one module overlap with it (Basic Sciences for Engineers, which includes Physics, Chemistry and Biology, which is an interesting module that I liked) and know some people in the course. The people I know seem to like the course. You may find if it is a very popular course DCU will make it available to more people which could negate any other factors which could raise points. Its very hard to predict how much the points will rise by. I know people who didn't get any courses on their CAO because the points went up by 50-70 points for some subjects. I think the highest points something in the top Dublin Colleges/Universities/IT's rose by was 85 points. You are best off just putting your favourite courses at the top of your CAO, hitting the books hard for the next few months and trying your best to get good enough points to ensure you get into your course. I would even recommend spending money on grinds if you are in need of some points and there is a subject you are not doing well in.

!MAVERICK!

MightyDucks wrote: »

Would there be any hope of someone getting in as a mature student into this course without the required points but already have a private pilot licence.

I have a PPL as well with alot of flying experience, still only an LC student though... Does anyone think this is a mickey mouse course? or can it actually get you a decent job in aviation?

stringy

!MAVERICK! wrote: »

I have a PPL as well with alot of flying experience, still only an LC student though... Does anyone think this is a mickey mouse course? or can it actually get you a decent job in aviation?

it is definitely not a "mickey mouse" course as it was designed on request by the Aviation Industry, specifically Aer Arann, Ryanair and Aer Lingus.

Airlines now require pilot with business skills. The reason being, pilots are only permitted to fly 900 hours per year, however most people work 1800 hours per year. Airlines are looking to utilise pilots in different roles, and therefore want them with business skills as opposed to the more technical skills most pilots currently possess.

there is a good video about the course at http://www.dcu.ie/dc117 with airline experts explaining the need for the course

!MAVERICK!

stringy wrote: »

it is definitely not a "mickey mouse" course as it was designed on request by the Aviation Industry, specifically Aer Arann, Ryanair and Aer Lingus.

There is absoloute no mention of request by Ryanair for this course on the dcu website,I highly doubt they will be looking for any graduates on this course. I could be wrong, but I just cant see Ryanair or other airlines taking on on pilot cadetships that acutally havent completed hardly any flight training excluding the optional PPL course at the end of the first year. Especially in times like this when airlines can just recruit fully trained pilots from private FTO's all over Europe for free.

stringy

!MAVERICK! wrote: »

There is absoloute no mention of request by Ryanair for this course on the dcu website,I highly doubt they will be looking for any graduates on this course. I could be wrong, but I just cant see Ryanair or other airlines taking on on pilot cadetships that acutally havent completed hardly any flight training excluding the optional PPL course at the end of the first year. Especially in times like this when airlines can just recruit fully trained pilots from private FTO's all over Europe for free.

You do a full year's professional pilot training in final year so you will be a fully trained pilot and have an honours degree at the end of it. Final year students will spend the year at an International Flight Training School.

The ryanair thing isn't mentioned online but the the course did develop as a result from requests from industry.

It will be an excellent qualification to have for those who graduate from it.

!MAVERICK!

stringy wrote: »

You do a full year's professional pilot training in final year so you will be a fully trained pilot and have an honours degree at the end of it.

Theres is no mention of commerical flight training in the course description, Trust me I have 4 Ryanair pilots in my family and you will be lightyears from a fully qualified pilot if you do not complete firstly a PPL, and after 200 hours of solo flight time you have to complete a CPL along with a multi-engine instrument rating and thirdly an ATPL and lastly if you are lucky enough to be selected for an airline you will have to complete a jetline type rating costing (30,000 - 50,000) alone. And also and a multi crew co-operation course. All of which come to cost thousands upon thousands of yoyos. Which is hardly going to be paid by DCU?? Only then you will be ready for an airline interview.

This all has to be done at a JAA certifed FTO ( Flight training Organisation).
so please try to explain to me how this course fully qualifies you as a pilot? theres not even of a mention of the flight school dcu are connected with on the website.

stringy

!MAVERICK! wrote: »

Theres is no mention of commerical flight training in the course description, Trust me I have 4 Ryanair pilots in my family and you will be lightyears from a fully qualified pilot if you do not complete firstly a PPL, and after 200 hours of solo flight time you have to complete a CPL along with a multi-engine instrument rating and thirdly an ATPL and lastly if you are lucky enough to be selected for an airline you will have to complete a jetline type rating costing (30,000 - 50,000) alone. And also and a multi crew co-operation course. All of which come to cost thousands upon thousands of yoyos. Which is hardly going to be paid by DCU?? Only then you will be ready for an airline interview.

This all has to be done at a JAA certifed FTO ( Flight training Organisation).
so please try to explain to me how this course fully qualifies you as a pilot? theres not even of a mention of the flight school dcu are connected with on the website.

ok so you seem very sure of what you are saying but would you trust me more if I said I was the DCU School Liaison Officer and am informed on content of all courses and have been familiar with this course since its inception.

In any case, please visit www.dcu.ie/dc117 and read the end of the page,

"Choice of Final Year Specialisms - Aviation Management or Pilot Studies
In the fourth year, the programme divides into two streams: some students will opt to pursue training at an approved Flight Training Organisation with a view to qualifying as a commercial pilot (Airline Transport Pilot Licence - ATPL)*; others will choose to follow more specialist studies in aviation management here in DCU."

The Flight Training Organisation IS mentioned and we are currently investigating partners around Europe, Xerez in Spain is likely or perhaps the UK. So you will qualify with an ATPL.

Please also click on the "course structure" tab and you will see the FTO mentioned.

There will of course be significant costs associated with this pilot training which students will have to pay, but we do hope to offer some part scholarships to assist with this. This is in addition to a loan scheme for students which we are developing with financial institutions.

Page 50 of the actual printed DCU prospectus 2011 also details what I have just mentioned.

!MAVERICK!

stringy wrote: »

The Flight Training Organisation IS mentioned and we are currently investigating partners around Europe, Xerez in Spain is likely or perhaps the UK. So you will qualify with an ATPL.

There will of course be significant costs associated with this pilot training which students will have to pay, but we do hope to offer some part scholarships to assist with this. This is in addition to a loan scheme for students which we are developing with financial institutions.

Of course there is , and how much is DCU willing to pay? and how many scholarships will be awarded to students on the course? And I highly doubt a fraction of the students pursuing this option will have the money to complete it, Unless daddy wants to pay out.

Page 50 of the actual printed DCU prospectus 2011 also details what I have just mentioned.

And how come they werent sent to my school?

Im sorry the FTO is not mentioned, all there is on the web page is ''Flight Training Organisation (FTO) Ground School - Theory'' Flight Training Organisation (FTO) Frozen ATPL'' ... No specific FTO or flight training mentioned...

And is the FTO you mentioned there FTE Jerez,? And you dont just 'get' an ATPL as if its there for the taking, The ATPL requires a minimum of 1500 hours, which must include:

Applicants to be at least 21
500 hrs multi-pilot in transport or commuter aircraft
250 hrs PIC (or 100 PIC and 150 PICUS)*
200 hrs cross country flights (100 as PIC or PICUS)
75 hrs instrument time
100 hrs night flight as PIC or co-pilot
Class 1 Medical

And of course there will be significant costs... how much is DCU willing to pay? and how many scholarships will be awarded to students on the course? And I highly doubt a fraction of the students pursuing this option will have the money to complete it, Unless daddy wants to pay out.

Finally in relation to the 2010 DCU prospectus, how come non were posted to my school?

Omega28

I was looking at doing this last year, was going through the mature entry route but I didn't bother in the end. It sounded like a very "mickey mouse" course to me. If you wanna do business, well then do a course like Bachelor of Business Studies which DCU offer, its a fine course I hear. If you wanna become a pilot and your dedicated to it well go get the massive loan and do it or go to Florida or somewhere that offers training at more affordable rates.

I wouldn't say the course is a waste of time, at the end of the day you get a degree! But I reckon the amount of graduates that actually go on and become a pilot will be very low in my opinion and would an international airline hire this type of graduate or one that's paid their way up the rankings and done the hours

stringy

!MAVERICK! wrote: »

how much is DCU willing to pay?
how many scholarships will be awarded to students on the course?

Finally in relation to the 2010 DCU prospectus, how come non were posted to my school?

www.dcu.ie/dc117
It says this at the bottom of the page:
In the fourth year, the programme divides into two streams: some students will opt to pursue training at an approved Flight Training Organisation with a view to qualifying as a commercial pilot (Airline Transport Pilot Licence - ATPL)*; others will choose to follow more specialist studies in aviation management here in DCU.

DCU will not be paying anything.

3-4 part-scholarships may be available.

A loan scheme will operate for students wishing to take the pilot studies option.

DCU Prospectuses were sent to every school in the country in September. We get the mailing list from the CAO. If a school wants more we send them out. If a student wants one, we mail it out.

I'm not here to debate the merits of the course, only to provide information. You appear to have done research and made up your mind, that's fine.

However, a student who studies this course WILL qualify as a commercial airline pilot after 4 years, if they choose the pilot studies option. Please do not be advising otherwise.

koph

Hi Stringy - thanks for your input

I think this course looks quite promising and was thinking of listing it as one of my CAO choices.

Do you know if there are any more open days at DCU and if there would be anyone who is currently studying this course who I could speak to? I think if would be very helpful.

Any additional help or info would be greatly appreciated!

Cheers,

Sophie

!MAVERICK!

stringy wrote: »

www.dcu.ie/dc117
It says this at the bottom of the page:
In the fourth year, the programme divides into two streams: some students will opt to pursue training at an approved Flight Training Organisation with a view to qualifying as a commercial pilot (Airline Transport Pilot Licence - ATPL)*; others will choose to follow more specialist studies in aviation management here in DCU.

DCU will not be paying anything.

3-4 part-scholarships may be available.

A loan scheme will operate for students wishing to take the pilot studies option.

DCU Prospectuses were sent to every school in the country in September. We get the mailing list from the CAO. If a school wants more we send them out. If a student wants one, we mail it out.

I'm not here to debate the merits of the course, only to provide information. You appear to have done research and made up your mind, that's fine.

However, a student who studies this course WILL qualify as a commercial airline pilot after 4 years, if they choose the pilot studies option. Please do not be advising otherwise.

Bull SHI**! Im sorry do happen to know any pilots??? Well I happen to live with 4 of them! The website has no mention of the flight school you are going to be sending your students to, this course has completely lost my interest. If anyone wants to be a pilot, apply for the air corps or pay for your training yourself in an FTO in the US or UK. Dont be fooled and think this course will actually throw you right into the right hand seat of a 737 with Ryanair or whoever, it wont! DCU don't even know even at this stage where they are sending there students to train. The cost is going to work out more anyway, without any college ''grants'' as you say, which will more likely be extremely limited and inadequate. What difference would it make if I decided to apply for a loan myself ? Loans are only given to students who have secured a job with an airline and need to fund their type rating in a simulator. Loans aren't given from their first flight lesson.

You are also highly misleading people with an interest in aviation by stating its necessary for pilots to have a knowledge in the ''business background'' of the industry. They need absolute no knowledge of it! All an airline hiring today wants to know if 1. you have your licences and medicals, 2. that you can get on with someone in a co-operative way for a few hours and 3. if you have 30,00 grand for a type rating. THATS IT!

It will be interesting to see where the graduates that first embarked on this course last year end up in aviation.

stringy

!MAVERICK! wrote: »

Bull SHI**!

I'm sorry you have made your mind up already but your comments are very misleading and unhelpful to those wishing to pursue this course.

Unless you were involved in the development and accreditation of this course, you are not in a position to comment on the content and structure of the course.

I can assure you that the partners in the aviation industry who approached DCU to develop this course, did so with a view to having more well rounded pilots with greater transferable skills to be employed in what is a increasingly dynamic industry. Their reasoning for the business skills requirement is that pilots currently fly 900 hours approx per year, however most other employees work 1,800 hours per year. In the future they wish to utilise pilots in a more managerial capacity during the time they are not in the air, or to combine flying with a business role.

The costs associated with the taking this option will be comparable to those in private FTOs.

It is envisaged that the loan scheme will operate as follows:

Students will undertake a series of aptitude tests from first year that will indicate the likelihood of them being a successful pilot. These test scores will be the basis of securing a specially designed loan with partner financial institutions.

For those who are actually interested in the course, this is currently one of only a few of these specially designed hybrid Aviation and Business programmes in Europe due to the highly innovative nature of the course. Please be assured that this programme was led by the Aviation Industry and not plucked out of the air as a nice idea by DCU.

paul_haych

Hey! Im doing this course so if anyone has any questions just ask! We've just finished our first semester! We didnt have any aviation modules for the first semester.. we had Business Maths, Economics, Accounting and Basic Sciences for engineering (Chemistry, Biology and Physics) etc.. The first semester was just basic business which we all expected as it was on the prospectus and it is a business degree! Next semester we have one Aviation module "The Aviation Sector and Flying Theory" for 8 hours a week! The course is definitely not a waste of time, you have 3 years before you choose is you want to specialise in aviation management or pilot studies! At the moment most of us are hoping to do Pilot studies. The FTO hasnt been chosen yet but it is 3 years away. We've had speakers from Aer Arann and the DAA come in to speak to our class and our class reps organised for us to go on a tour of the new terminal at Dublin Airport before it opened! And yes there are mature students in the course and some of them have their PPL! If there's anything else you want to know.. just ask!

redout

stringy wrote: »

I'm sorry you have made your mind up already but your comments are very misleading and unhelpful to those wishing to pursue this course.

Unless you were involved in the development and accreditation of this course, you are not in a position to comment on the content and structure of the course.

I can assure you that the partners in the aviation industry who approached DCU to develop this course, did so with a view to having more well rounded pilots with greater transferable skills to be employed in what is a increasingly dynamic industry. Their reasoning for the business skills requirement is that pilots currently fly 900 hours approx per year, however most other employees work 1,800 hours per year. In the future they wish to utilise pilots in a more managerial capacity during the time they are not in the air, or to combine flying with a business role.

The costs associated with the taking this option will be comparable to those in private FTOs.

It is envisaged that the loan scheme will operate as follows:

Students will undertake a series of aptitude tests from first year that will indicate the likelihood of them being a successful pilot. These test scores will be the basis of securing a specially designed loan with partner financial institutions.

For those who are actually interested in the course, this is currently one of only a few of these specially designed hybrid Aviation and Business programmes in Europe due to the highly innovative nature of the course. Please be assured that this programme was led by the Aviation Industry and not plucked out of the air as a nice idea by DCU.

Pilots might be limited to 900 flight hours by law but work far more hours in total. You have to take account of pre-flight ops etc. You can easily be due in a couple of hours before your flight depending on the airline. Guys doing longhaul might even be in 3hrs before. All I am saying is that when the likes of that fool O'Leary go on about pilots only working 900hrs they are in truth talking thru ones arse.

!MAVERICK!

stringy wrote: »

I'm sorry you have made your mind up already but your comments are very misleading and unhelpful to those wishing to pursue this course.

Unless you were involved in the development and accreditation of this course, you are not in a position to comment on the content and structure of the course.

I can assure you that the partners in the aviation industry who approached DCU to develop this course, did so with a view to having more well rounded pilots with greater transferable skills to be employed in what is a increasingly dynamic industry. Their reasoning for the business skills requirement is that pilots currently fly 900 hours approx per year, however most other employees work 1,800 hours per year. In the future they wish to utilise pilots in a more managerial capacity during the time they are not in the air, or to combine flying with a business role.

The costs associated with the taking this option will be comparable to those in private FTOs.

It is envisaged that the loan scheme will operate as follows:

Students will undertake a series of aptitude tests from first year that will indicate the likelihood of them being a successful pilot. These test scores will be the basis of securing a specially designed loan with partner financial institutions.

For those who are actually interested in the course, this is currently one of only a few of these specially designed hybrid Aviation and Business programmes in Europe due to the highly innovative nature of the course. Please be assured that this programme was led by the Aviation Industry and not plucked out of the air as a nice idea by DCU.

You will continue rambling on with little evidence to back up your statements. And I am in a bloody position to make a comment on this mickey mouse course you and dcu are so keen on. My family have a combined experience of over 50 years working in aviation including 4 pilots, 2 air traffic controllers and 1 aeronautical engineer. I have 3 summers work experience in the industry myself despite the fact that im only 19. So I think I would have a wider knowledge of aviation than you. All your role as a liaison officer is to research and analyse the course.

My comments are not misleading they are just factual and informative, which will help students avoid chosing a silly course such as this one. Your the one misleading the feckin students looking on this course stating ''pilots need business skills'' which they in not one way do!

Your also the one misleading students by fooling them there will be any difference in just taking flight training out themselves before wasting 4 years studying unnecessary material to become a pilot. You even said yourself the costs will be '' comparable to private FTOs'' And thats just evident of your mis understanding of flight training organizations. All FTO's are Private! there are no state funded flight training organizations apart from the air corps!

And your also misleading students who will not just gain a 100,000 euro loan from one of your ''private financial institutions'' which arent even mentioned. Most loans are only given out for type ratings to finish their training with an airline that doesn't pay for their jet rating, if you even know what that is.

And the 'partners' you went for recognition are the biggest losers in the industry such as Aer arann, who would listen to them? how many pilots have they hired in the last year? And the ejits in the DAA what do they know about aviation apart from building white elephants and decreasing passenger numbers by 40 % in a matter of a year ? And Aer lingus the most corrupted airline in europe who plan to implement a 97 million euro cost cutting plan and make 1000 staff redundant. They dont even mention anything relevant to employment in your little video you created, apart from waffling on about the industry, and Dublin airport.Go get accreditation from the IAA about this course, and maybe it could be considered any use for employment, which I highly doubt!

!MAVERICK!

redout wrote: »

All I am saying is that when the likes of that fool O'Leary go on about pilots only working 900hrs they are in truth talking thru ones arse.

Hes no fool, hes just one of the best business leaders this world has ever seen,who will only create jobs and lower the costs of air travel significantly. Your just another one of those ejits thats jealous of him. And hes not talking through his arse, hes just telling the truth, pilots are not worked hard enough. They work half the hours any normal worker does. And to be true your the one talking through your arse by stating pilots need to be in 3 hours before the flight! Thats just nonsense. It takes 20 minutes to prepare for a flight. And 10 minutes for a turn around.

redout

!MAVERICK! wrote: »

Hes no fool, hes just one of the best business leaders this world has ever seen,who will only create jobs and lower the costs of air travel significantly. Your just another one of those ejits thats jealous of him. And hes not talking through his arse, hes just telling the truth, pilots are not worked hard enough. They work half the hours any normal worker does. And to be true your the one talking through your arse by stating pilots need to be in 3 hours before the flight! Thats just nonsense. It takes 20 minutes to prepare for a flight. And 10 minutes for a turn around.

LMAO

You have 3 summers work in the industry! Doing what exactly may I ask ? I talk from having 2 years experience in RHS so forgive me for being sceptical of your tirade. Michael O'Leary is the scourge of the industry and the majority of my colleagues would hear no different and that would include plenty of Ryanair pilots. Perhaps you consider yourself better informed but from what I can tell you just rely on word of mouth.

stringy

!MAVERICK! wrote: »

You will .........

You're blinded by your own assertions, and your ill tempered aggressive belittling rants are not helping anyone. You're not interested, we get it. You think you know it all, we get it. You have your own "informed" opinions, we get it. Good luck with your future career, whatever it is.

p1akuw47h5r3it

stringy wrote: »

You're blinded by your own assertions, and your ill tempered aggressive belittling rants are not helping anyone. You're not interested, we get it. You think you know it all, we get it. You have your own "informed" opinions, we get it. Good luck with your future career, whatever it is.

Game, set and match Stringy

rallye150flyer

i was going to stay out of this but i couldn't after maverick's rants which are all complete nonsense. i am on this course and am one of the class reps. this degree is not just about getting a frozen atpl frozen meaning you want have done all those hours maverick was going on about. its about giving new age pilots the skills to fit into the airline outside of the cockpit when a pilot doesnt want to fly after 15 years or so they have the education and knowledge of the industry to become a manager its not all about coming out with a licence some people will not even choose to go down the pilot studies route and will end up just doin management. and in regards to the industry interest it has been huge not just for the pilots but also for the mangers if anybody wants any information on the course if they are thinking of doing it just ask but if your like maverick and is just out to attack it then this course isnt for u and u are wasting your time on this thread.

discus

There's a lot of posters here claiming that !MAVERICK! is knocking the course for the sake of it. He's not.

Remember, if you want to be a pilot you can go to an FTO anywhere in the world and pay for it. All this course appears to do is add 4 years on to your journey towards it. If you want to be a pilot, do pilots training is what I'm getting from !MAVERICK!

rallye150flyer

this course is not just aimed at people who want to be pilots its also for people who want to be in a position to get a range of different jobs in the industry a) after they finish flying or b) or if they are not fit to become pilots for what ever reason be it medical of financial

--hughesy--

Can anyone give any input as to whether there is any real benefit in doing the course if you actually want to go into the management side of things rather than the piloting side?

I'm wondering because anyone I've talked to only wants to do the course with the aim to become a pilot..

Would it be more beneficial for me to do a regular business degree which would probably be more appealing to employers???

rallye150flyer

this course would definitely be a help a huge one this course is designed for people who want to be pilots and those who don't. there is no other course in ireland that caters for the management side of aviation side of things if its that u want to do this is the course for u

Boeing777

Hi all,
Could anybody tell me what finance options DCU can provide in relation to the flight training? I am aware of some partial scholarships offered, but for those needing financial support, is there help provided?

Thanks!

rallye150flyer

in regard to the finance there is nothing in place yet and dcu wont be giving u any money it will be down to u to get the finance they may however link u up wit a financial institution nothing is in place yet as here not even through the first yr of the first yr of the course and the flight training wont happen till yr 4