VW Golf on low mileage - 1.6 TDI better than 1.2 TSI - just sales talk???

paultf

At a VW dealer today and test drove a VW Golf 1.2 TSI 105 BHP. Thought it was OK.

Told the sales guy I only tip around town (about 5,000 miles/year). I told him that I heard diesels would cause problems on such low mileage. He told me that was the case years ago but not now. He told me with a diesel I would get:

* better MPG
* lower tax
* diesel is cheaper to buy at the pump than petrol
* the TDI would be great on low mileage

Then I test drove the 1.6 TDI 105 BHP. Much nicer drive than the 1.2 TSI.

The difference in price between the 1.2 TSI and 1.6 TDI is €1,730.

What do you think? Should I go for the TDI over the TSI on such low mileage? Or is that just sales talk?

EPM

Sales talk mostly but if you only plan on keeping that car a year or two it might still be wiser going diesel. If you're keeping it long term petrol all the way imo

Seweryn

paultf wrote: »

The difference in price between the 1.2 TSI and 1.6 TDI is €1,730.

What do you think? Should I go for the TDI over the TSI on such low mileage? Or is that just sales talk?

I would go for the petrol engined one and for the price difference I would get a decent bike, which would be handy for short trips around town, as well as keeping you fit.

MagicMarker

Seweryn wrote: »

I would go for the petrol engined one and for the price difference I would get a decent bike, which would be handy for short trips around town, as well as keeping you fit.

<snip>

Alanstrainor

MagicMarker wrote: »

<snip>

This forum can do without pictures of cats.

Typing sentences works better.

unkel

I'm with EPM on this one. Small town mileage is not good for a diesel, don't let the salesman fool ya

There are several issues with modern diesels and they are all expensive. Diesel particulate filter (DPF) and dual mass flywheel (DMF) and not to mention problems with the fuel injection system. None of these are likely to cause problems in the first 3 or 4 years and the better resale of the diesel car combined with the savings in tax and fuel would make it the better choice

If you are going to own it long time, the petrol would be less likely to give expensive trouble. That said, the small 1.2 petrol engine is highly strung and has a turbocharger. These engines haven't proven themselves yet to be lasting well in the long term. Me, in this case I would probably go for a slightly older technology car, maybe not from the VW stable...

paultf

paultf wrote: »

Told the sales guy I only tip around town (about 5,000 miles/year). I told him that I heard diesels would cause problems on such low mileage. He told me that was the case years ago but not now.

Ask this chap does the 1.6TDi have a diesel particulate filter that requires regeneration cycles. His comment about diesels years ago being troublesome if only used on short spins is complete and utter arse.

How long do you intend to keep the car ? If it's a not a long termer you will have no bother getting rid of a very low mileage diesel Golf in two years privately for decent money.

paultf

Thanks for the replies.

I plan on keeping the new car for up to 10 years.

I rang the mechanic I go to and he recommended the TDI. I said what about low mileage in a TDI and he said all cars will cause trouble with such low mileage.

Also I found this link on whatcar suggesting diesel cars don't cause problems on low mileage: http://www.whatcar.com/car-news/what-car-q-and-a/can-low-mileage-damage-a-diesel/228976

Also the 1.2 TSI I test drove today was "nippy" but felt "thinny" - like a small car feel. (I would go for the 1.4 TSI but the way VW have it structured it will cost me an extra €2,740.) The 1.6 TDI was a better drive in comparsion and would cost an extra €1,730.

Nonoperational

I'd agree that the 1.6 TDi probably feels nicer than the petrol. The only thing extra in the diesel that will not like short start stop trips is the DPF. Besides that really there's not much difference. It'll take a bit longer to warm up so maybe it might wear a bit more due to lots of cold starts and driving but really I doubt it.I wouldn't be too bothered about the DMF on a 105bhp car that will be doing low mileage.

If you prefer the diesel I'd say go for it. It's your car after all and the last thing you want is to buy the petrol and wish you went for the diesel.

245

I reckon that you'd be crazy to go for the diesel - the DPF issue is likely to be a problem for you unless you do sustained higher speed runs. Have a look at this - note the requirement for runs lasting at least 15 mins at above 60 km/h. Be aware that any related visit to your Volkswagen dealer will not be covered by warranty and will be at your expense:

VAG DISESEL PARTICULATE FILTERS

Courtesy of David Bodily Volkswagen Technical Support Specialist

Diesel Particulate Filter (DPF)

Detailed below is important information outlining the function and features of the Diesel Particulate filter which all members of your team need to be aware of.

Diesel particulate filters are becoming more commonplace on diesel engines, particularly sizes 2.0L upwards. This is in order to reduce the exhaust emissions as required by European legislation.

The prime reason for a DPF is to reduce particulate matter entering the atmosphere. Particulate matter is found in the form of soot, which is produced during diesel combustion. The DPF traps most of the soot which would normally travel down the
exhaust and into the atmosphere. The DPF can hold a certain amount of soot, but not a huge quantity and therefore it needs to go through a process called ‘regeneration’ in order to clear the soot loading. When the soot goes through a ‘regeneration’ process it will be converted to a much smaller amount of ash. The ash is non-removable. There are two types of ‘regeneration’, passive and active.

During long motorway journeys, passive regeneration will occur. This needs no intervention from the engine control unit. Due to the raised exhaust temperatures on a long journey (temperatures between 350 and 500°C), the procedure occurs slowly and continuously across the catalytic-coated (with platinum) DPF. The catalytic-coated DPF is situated close to the Engine, therefore the exhaust gas temperature is high enough (500°C) to ignite the soot particles. Due to this soot is burned-off and is converted into a smaller amount of ash.

Active ‘regeneration’ is when the ECU intervenes when the soot loading in the DPF is calculated to be 45%. The procedure lasts for about 5 – 10 minutes. Specific measures are taken by the ECU to raise the engine exhaust temperature to above 600°C, these include switching off the exhaust gas recirculation and increasing the fuel injection period to include a small injection after the main injection. The soot particles are oxidised at this temperature.

The ECU will trigger a regeneration process, if for some reason this is aborted, ie.
customer slows down, stops etc, the process will be resumed when regeneration
conditions are once again met, above 60km/h (38mph). This will continue for 15 minutes.

If after 2 attempts of 15 minutes, a successful regeneration has not been possible, the loading will increase. At 50% soot loading, the ECU will continue to maintain maximum exhaust temperatures of 600°C to 650°C to cause a regeneration process. The system will try to run a regeneration process for 15 minutes. If unsuccessful, the system will repeat this process for a further 15 minutes, if still unsuccessful, the DPF light on the driver display panel will then be lit.

The owners handbook states, the DPF symbol lights up to indicate that the diesel
particulate filter has become obstructed with soot due to frequent short trips. When the warning lamp comes on, the driver should drive at a constant speed of at least 60 km/h for about 10 minutes. As a result of the increase in temperature the soot in the filter will be burned off. If the DPF symbol does not go out, the driver should contact an authorised Volkswagen repairer and have the fault rectified.

At 55% soot loading the DPF light is lit on driver display panel. At this point the customer should follow the advice in the handbook. If they ignore this information and continue driving the vehicle until the soot loading reaches 75% without successful regeneration, additional warning lamps will light up. At this point the customer will also be complaining of lack of power, etc.

At 75%, regeneration is still possible with the use of the VAS tester. Only when the loading is above 95%, is it necessary to replace the DPF unit.

Operating Status System Response
45% DPF Load Level 1
- Normal Regeneration
50% DPF Load Level 2
- Regeneration at maximum exhaust
temperatures
55% DPF Load DPF lamp
Regeneration from 60 km/h
onwards
("See operating manual")
75% DPF Load DPF, SYS and MI lamp
Torque limitation, EGR
deactivation,
Regeneration via VAG tester only
95% DPF Load Replace the DPF Unit

The Warranty department has confirmed that if there is no fault on the vehicle and DPF regeneration has been unsuccessful due to the customers driving style and the
customers failure to comply with the instructions in the handbook, DPF replacement will not be paid for by warranty.

Common causes for complaint

• Frequent short journeys – Regeneration conditions are not met.
Not recommended for sale in the Channel Islands and inner city driving.

• Customers who continue to drive the vehicle with DPF light on – Continued
driving with the DPF light on and without successful regeneration results in
excessive soot loading of the DPF, to a point where it is above 95% loaded.
At this point regeneration is not an option and replacement of the DPF is
necessary.

• Fault 18434 particle filter bank 1 malfunction – Common fault code. This does
not only relate to the DPF itself, but the entire exhaust gas handling system. This
can be caused by defective temperature sensors, pressure sensors, additive
system components (if applicable), poor connections, wiring issues, etc.

Important Information

• Before diagnosing a problem vehicle or attempting to perform an emergency
regeneration, it is important to obtain a full diagnostic log and read out relevant
measured value blocks. These MVB’s contain important information on the
condition of the DPF system and are essential in diagnosing the fault. When the
DPF light is illuminated, it does not necessarily mean that the DPF requires
regeneration. For further advice, please contact Technical Support with the
information from the diagnostic log and MVB data.

• If a problem vehicle arrives with the DPF light, the engine management light and
the emissions light on. If during your diagnosis and reading of relevant MVB’s,
you find that the soot loading exceeds 75% (but is still below 95%), an
emergency regeneration procedure must be performed with the VAS tester.
Further to this, the customer needs to be educated. They need to understand
why the lights have appeared on the dash panel. Their attention needs to be
brought to the owners handbook instructions, so that they are aware of what the
DPF light means and what to do when it appears. This should prevent
unnecessary repeat visits for regeneration purposes.

David Bodily

Volkswagen Technical Support Specialist

Link here:

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/180765-happy-drivers-not-16cr-tdi-dpf/

245

Have a look at this also;

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056088431&highlight=particulate+filter

unkel

paultf wrote: »

I rang the mechanic I go to and he recommended the TDI. I said what about low mileage in a TDI and he said all cars will cause trouble with such low mileage.

Sounds like your mechanic's knowledge isn't quite up to date

paultf wrote: »

I plan on keeping the new car for up to 10 years.

You'd almost certainly need both the DMF and DPF replaced in that time in the Golf diesel. Maybe twice.

Low mileage causes more engine wear than regular long trips, but some cars can take this better than others. Modern diesels are no good. Modern high strung direct injection petrol turbos haven't proven themselves - I wouldn't trust them. You'll need a slightly old skool technology non-turbo non-direct injection petrol engined car that has proved it can take more wear than most. How about a Honda Civic 1.4 petrol (saw an ad today that they're under €20k, so around the same price as the Golfs)?

bazz26

The salesman's logic makes no sense in your case OP as doing 5000 miles a year is not diesel mileage. At that kind of average mileage fuel economy should not be a major sway for the diesel model for you. Diesels are designed and need to be driven otherwise they run into all sorts of problems down the road as already explained by others.

In my opinion stick with the less complicated petrol model.

paultf

Thanks again for all the replies.

I am bit mixed up at the moment . I had my mind set on a 1.2 TSI. Then the VW sales guy swayed me towards a TDI, which I have to admit is a better drive. Why would the sales guy say a TDI is OK for low mileage? Does he not realise I would be back on his doorstep if something went wrong? Can't understand that.

I asked a few different people who know a bit about cars and I got mixed replies.

Most of the replies on this thread all say stay away from a TDI if I am doing low mileage. This seems to be good advice as I found this webpage on the AA website about problems with DPF's: http://www.theaa.com/motoring_advice/fuels-and-environment/diesel-particulate-filters.html

This section confirms what you have all been saying:

"Mainly town based driving:- If your own car use is mainly town-based, stop/start driving it would be wise to choose petrol rather than risk the hassle of incomplete DPF regeneration."

I have my heart set on a Golf so I think I going to take a chance on the 1.2 TSI 105 BHP and hope the car gives me a good run.

Cheers for the advice.

MagicMarker

paultf wrote: »

Why would the sales guy say a TDI is OK for low mileage?

Because he's a salesman. He wants to get you to spend as much as possible, that's his priority, he couldn't give a fúck if you come back in a years time.

Never trust a salesman.

Green Hornet

unkel wrote: »

How about a Honda Civic 1.4 petrol (saw an ad today that they're under €20k, so around the same price as the Golfs)?

The wife has one and only does short journeys, frequently. Good mpg and far better looking and equipped than the Golf. Never gives any problems either. No way should somebody only doing 5k per year buy a diesel. It's insane even to think about it.

bazz26

There could be any number of reasons why the salesperson is trying to push the diesel Golf over the petrol. It could be down to the stock that the salesperson has access to, they may simply not have access to a TSi but have access to a number of TDi models so don't want to loose your business.

At the end of the day OP it's your money. You should be buying what you think is right for you and not what a salesperson or anyone else want's you to buy.

EPM

The salesman may not be bothered by you coming back under warranty or is willing to take his chances. Shop around on a 1.4tsi and you may be able to get a better price if you are not happy with the 1.2. The 1.4 is a nice drive.

Details on dpf and dmf are already outlined. I really wouldn't take any chances. I usually do 5-8 times your mileage and am currently looking at petrols as I don't trust diesels long term

unkel

paultf wrote: »

I have my heart set on a Golf so I think I going to take a chance on the 1.2 TSI 105 BHP and hope the car gives me a good run.

Don't come back here to say we didn't warn you about those modern little direct injection petrol turbo engines

Only messing - best of luck

On a serious note - is there any way you can negotiate for a very long engine / drivetrain warranty with the salesman? I'm talking at least 5 years here, longer if you can.

Elessar

I'm thinking of buying a new or nearly new Golf just like the OP next year and am considering the diesel even though I do roughly the same mileage (7k/year). I'll probably change the car within 3-4 years again. The DPF can be regenerated with a long spin down the M50 on a sunday drive if needs be so I wouldn't be too concerned? The 20MPG extra over the petrol would be very nice though.

The 1.4TSI 122bhp with DSG gearbox would be lovely granted, but at close to €1.50 a liter... I'll have to test drive both. Consider the DSG gearbox OP (better MPG than manual).

ThisRegard

Probably slightly off topic but not all modern diesels have DPFs, correct ? I remember looking at the spec sheets for the new Renaults and their smaller diesels don't have them.

bazz26

Elessar wrote: »

I'm thinking of buying a new or nearly new Golf just like the OP next year and am considering the diesel even though I do roughly the same mileage (7k/year). I'll probably change the car within 3-4 years again. The DPF can be regenerated with a long spin down the M50 on a sunday drive if needs be so I wouldn't be too concerned? The 20MPG extra over the petrol would be very nice though.

Long term build up of soot in the DPF from frequent short trips will not be resolved by a long spin down the M50. Eventually the regeneration will not burn away the entire soot and it will build up until the DPF is blocked. My previous car had 50k miles on it when I bought it, I put another 35k miles on it and the DPF still got totally blocked due to the short trips of the previous owner. Garage tried to force a regeneration but the DPF was totally blocked. Cost me €900 to replace it earlier this year.

bazz26

Every new diesel engined car from 2011 will have a DPF fitted in order to be compliant with Euro V emissions directives. Renault's 1.5 dCi got a DPF fitted earlier this year afaik.

R.O.R

bazz26 wrote: »

Every new diesel engined car from 2011 will have a DPF fitted in order to be compliant with Euro V emissions directives. Renault's 1.5 dCi got a DPF fitted earlier this year afaik.

All new Renault stock coming in now is EURO V with a DPF, and it's the same for the majority.

The salesman couldn't give 2 hoots if the OP comes back in a years time with problems, because at that stage it's not his problem - it's the service manager's. He's got his comission on the additional 1,730 euro's and he's happy.

ThisRegard

I just had a check again, on the Irish Renault site when you go to the specifications for the 1.5dCi it now says it has a filter, however on the brochure on the UK site, http://www.renault.co.uk/contact/model/meganesporttourer/viewbrochure.aspx?name=M%C3%A9gane%20Sport%20Tourer&cat=car
only the dCi 160 and dCi 150 are listed with them. I would have thought the UK would be the same, obviously not.

R.O.R wrote: »

All new Renault stock coming in now is EURO V with a DPF, and it's the same for the majority.

Were earlier models excluded or have all their Eco whatever diesel engines always included DPFs ?

R.O.R

ThisRegard wrote: »

Were earlier models excluded or have all their Eco whatever diesel engines always included DPFs ?

I'm pretty sure the vehicles they sold in 2010 were EURO IV. The eco badge just goes on to anything in the Renault range under (I think) 140g of CO2, which isn't too difficult to do nowadays with a small diesel engine and a fiarly light car.

Leonard Hofstadter

paultf wrote: »

Thanks for the replies.

I plan on keeping the new car for up to 10 years.

I rang the mechanic I go to and he recommended the TDI. I said what about low mileage in a TDI and he said all cars will cause trouble with such low mileage.

Also I found this link on whatcar suggesting diesel cars don't cause problems on low mileage: http://www.whatcar.com/car-news/what-car-q-and-a/can-low-mileage-damage-a-diesel/228976

Also the 1.2 TSI I test drove today was "nippy" but felt "thinny" - like a small car feel. (I would go for the 1.4 TSI but the way VW have it structured it will cost me an extra €2,740.) The 1.6 TDI was a better drive in comparsion and would cost an extra €1,730.

I must say I disagree with the general consensus of the other posters.

As far as I know, it is only the Bluemotion 1.6 TDI that has the dreaded DPF. Maybe that's changing for 2011, but up till now Irish market Golfs were not fitted with DPFs.

The salesman may well be trying to relieve you of an extra €1,730, but surprising as it may sound, he may actually be trying to help you and may in fact be giving you good advice here.

You've already mentioned that the diesel is a nicer drive - no amount of salesman's patter can persuade someone that one engine is nicer than the other.

The big advantage of buying a diesel, and nobody has picked this up yet, is that diesels have a far superior resale value. People buying second hand at the moment are buying all sorts of crap once there is a diesel engine under the bonnet. The new car market for petrols has basically collapsed for anything bigger than a Polo.

You may spend €1,730 now, but you will get that back, and more at trade in time.

I realise that you plan on keeping the car for ten years, but what if you changed your mind after three or four or even five or six years?

Suddenly saving €1,730 now is a false economy - a diesel will sell for far more than a petrol and you will get a better trade in allowance.

The main reason I don't agree that the petrol is necessarily the best option is because there is no evidence to suggest that a petrol Golf will be any less trouble free than a diesel - but plenty of evidence from other cars to suggest that it is as likely to go expensively wrong as the diesel.

A TSI Golf has direct injection, and guess what - direct injection petrols also don't like low mileage short distance driving.

Direct injection petrols suffer from carbon build up when they are driven too gently, which means that eventually the car will start running poorly, idling badly and will need the head to come off to get a decoke.

That's more expensive to do than changing a DPF.

Then again, the diesel will have DMF to worry about as well.

Choosing a petrol engined car for your circumstances is the better option on balance - I would rather lose a bit more on resale value than have to spend money on a DPF or a DMF, but my point is that a direct injection petrol is not the best bet for someone doing short runs.

The Opel Astra and Toyota Auris have petrol engines that, like the 1.2 TSI Golf, are in tax band B, but they don't have direct injection.

These will not give any real trouble, and you will be better off financially choosing one of these cars with a petrol engine as opposed to choosing the equivalent diesel model.

The Astra is IMOH a much nicer car than the Golf, although the Golf is a much better car than the Auris.

If you are set on going for the Golf, I'd probably go for the diesel though I would be changing it after three or four years before the DMF and DPF go gaga.

paultf

captainspeed wrote: »

I must say I disagree with the general consensus of the other posters.

As far as I know, it is only the Bluemotion 1.6 TDI that has the dreaded DPF. Maybe that's changing for 2011, but up till now Irish market Golfs were not fitted with DPFs.

A TSI Golf has direct injection, and guess what - direct injection petrols also don't like low mileage short distance driving.

Direct injection petrols suffer from carbon build up when they are driven too gently, which means that eventually the car will start running poorly, idling badly and will need the head to come off to get a decoke.

Very confusing I went to my local VW dealer yesterday and I wasn't happy with the quote for a 1.2 TSI 105 BHP. I then went to a dealer 30 miles away and he was €500 cheaper but he was the one who tried to sway me in buying a TDI.

I rang my local dealer today and he confirmed to me that the DPF would cause problems in a TDI on low mileage.

I rang the dealer 30 miles away, told him the story (boards, local dealer, etc) and he was adamant that the TDI was a better car and I won't have problems with the DPF - mentioned giving it a good run. He said even with the TSI I could have problems on such low miles and would need to give it a good run.

Part of the reason I am going for a Golf is I need the boot space for carrying 3 dogs. Plus I like Golf's.

I have to admit I am confused again . I was set on a TSI but now I wondering if this is going to cause problems too. The TDI is a better engine/drive and maybe if I changed every 4 years I might avoid problems with the DPF or DMF.

Tea 1000

paultf wrote: »

Very confusing I went to my local VW dealer yesterday and I wasn't happy with the quote for a 1.2 TSI 105 BHP. I then went to a dealer 30 miles away and he was €500 cheaper but he was the one who tried to sway me in buying a TDI.

I rang my local dealer today and he confirmed to me that the DPF would cause problems in a TDI on low mileage.

Part of the reason I going for a Golf is I need the boot space for carrying 3 dogs. Plus I like the look of the Golf's.

So you think there might be problems with a TSI on low mileage? My mechanic told me that all cars (petrol or diesel) would have problems on my low mileage. If I got a diesel I don't particularly want to change it every 4 years. I want to keep the car for 10 years at least. I wonder would it be more expensive/hassle dealing with a TSI than a TDI in this case?

An Astra will carry just as many dogs as a Golf, but we know here on boards that a VW lover will never drive anything else, and a Skoda lover will never drive anything else either.
I'd say that unless your commute is at reasonably high speeds, then go diesel, but if it's around town, go petrol.

bazz26

captainspeed wrote: »

I must say I disagree with the general consensus of the other posters.

As far as I know, it is only the Bluemotion 1.6 TDI that has the dreaded DPF. Maybe that's changing for 2011, but up till now Irish market Golfs were not fitted with DPFs.

The salesman may well be trying to relieve you of an extra €1,730, but surprising as it may sound, he may actually be trying to help you and may in fact be giving you good advice here.

You've already mentioned that the diesel is a nicer drive - no amount of salesman's patter can persuade someone that one engine is nicer than the other.

The big advantage of buying a diesel, and nobody has picked this up yet, is that diesels have a far superior resale value. People buying second hand at the moment are buying all sorts of crap once there is a diesel engine under the bonnet. The new car market for petrols has basically collapsed for anything bigger than a Polo.

You may spend €1,730 now, but you will get that back, and more at trade in time.

I realise that you plan on keeping the car for ten years, but what if you changed your mind after three or four or even five or six years?

Suddenly saving €1,730 now is a false economy - a diesel will sell for far more than a petrol and you will get a better trade in allowance.

The main reason I don't agree that the petrol is necessarily the best option is because there is no evidence to suggest that a petrol Golf will be any less trouble free than a diesel - but plenty of evidence from other cars to suggest that it is as likely to go expensively wrong as the diesel.

A TSI Golf has direct injection, and guess what - direct injection petrols also don't like low mileage short distance driving.

Direct injection petrols suffer from carbon build up when they are driven too gently, which means that eventually the car will start running poorly, idling badly and will need the head to come off to get a decoke.

That's more expensive to do than changing a DPF.

Then again, the diesel will have DMF to worry about as well.

Choosing a petrol engined car for your circumstances is the better option on balance - I would rather lose a bit more on resale value than have to spend money on a DPF or a DMF, but my point is that a direct injection petrol is not the best bet for someone doing short runs.

The Opel Astra and Toyota Auris have petrol engines that, like the 1.2 TSI Golf, are in tax band B, but they don't have direct injection.

These will not give any real trouble, and you will be better off financially choosing one of these cars with a petrol engine as opposed to choosing the equivalent diesel model.

The Astra is IMOH a much nicer car than the Golf, although the Golf is a much better car than the Auris.

If you are set on going for the Golf, I'd probably go for the diesel though I would be changing it after three or four years before the DMF and DPF go gaga.

OP is keeping the car for 10 years so resale value is not really a major factor, buying diesel is the current trend for the Irish at the moment because they are cheaper to tax and offer short term savings at the pump. This has caused alot of people to switch to diesel who do feck all mileage or just potter around town.

In a few years time these same people with their barely used diesel cars are potentially going to have expensive repair bills for the sake of saving 8c a litre at the pump or €100/50 annually in motor tax over a petrol car.

My own uncle has recently bought a diesel car, he barely does 5k km a year and most of that is town driving. I tried telling him about DPFs and DMFs, even showed him the invoice for mine but all he sees is the savings at the pump and the low motor tax. :rolleyes: I don't look forward to the day when I say to him "I told you so".

paultf

captainspeed wrote: »

You've already mentioned that the diesel is a nicer drive - no amount of salesman's patter can persuade someone that one engine is nicer than the other.

Just out of interest how many miles per year would you have to drive to avoid problems with the DPF and DMF in a 1.6 TDI?

Also if I did alot of short trips with the odd long trip would that beat the problem? Or would I need to be doing 60MPH+ regularly on a motorway to ensure the DPF works properly?

245

paultf wrote: »

Just out of interest how many miles per year would you have to drive to avoid problems with the DPF and DMF in a 1.6 TDI?

Also if I did alot of short trips with the odd long trip would that beat the problem? Or would I need to be doing 60MPH+ regularly on a motorway to ensure the DPF works properly?

Its more the type of driving that it requires rather than mileage itself. Post #10 in this thread suggests that you'll have to drive at over 60 km/h for between 10 and 15 minutes reasonably regularly. That's not as easy as it sounds in an urban environment and you may be too busy to find the time to drive up the M50 when its reasonably clear just to suit the car.

Matt Simis

paultf wrote: »

Part of the reason I am going for a Golf is I need the boot space for carrying 3 dogs. Plus I like Golf's.

I have to admit I am confused again . I was set on a TSI but now I wondering if this is going to cause problems too. The TDI is a better engine/drive and maybe if I changed every 4 years I might avoid problems with the DPF or DMF.

I hope they are Toy sized dogs, I would consider a Golf quite unsuitable for dog travelling. I use an Alfa Sportswagon (a kinda small estate or long hatchback, pending your viewpoint) for that these days but previously had a BMW and an Audi estates for the job (both bigger than the Alfa and a lot bigger than a hatchback). *Edit: Assuming you are looking at the regular Golf model, not the god awful looking estate... do they still make them in the new gen?

Anyhow, it is all confusing but only when you consider you are looking for the "right" answer but limiting yourself to a choice of two unsuitable VW products. Its true, the TSI engines and the TDIs do no tolerate short journeys well at all.

Have you considered buying a Used Car instead? You will would open the field to different, more suitable engine types, get a better spec'd / larger car by far and of course save significantly on purchase price.

paultf

Matt Simis wrote: »

I hope they are Toy sized dogs

A bit bigger! I have a Golf at the moment and they fit OK - only short trips.

Anyways after all the great advice on this thread and after searching the web, I realise the TDI won't suit my low mileage. So that option is gone. Pity.

The main reason I am set on a Golf is I really like them! I checked out a few other cars (astra, civic, c'eed, etc) but I didn't take to them.

Also the reason I am going for a new car is my current Golf is nearly 10 years old so it seems the best option is to scrap it.

At this stage I going to take the plunge and go for the TSI and hope I get a run.

MagicMarker

Scrapping a 10 year old golf! Jaysus.

What's the scrappage deal worth on the golf? You'll get 2k+ for that golf, depending condition/spec of course. Would be a shame to scrap a perfectly good car tbh.

Dilbert75

Matt Simis wrote: »

I use an Alfa Sportswagon (a kinda small estate or long hatchback, pending your viewpoint) for that these days but previously had a BMW and an Audi estates for the job (both bigger than the Alfa and a lot bigger than a hatchback).

Matt,
A bit off topic but is your SW a 156, is it a JTD and does it have a DPF? Only ask cos I'm going to look at one on Monday....

paultf

MagicMarker wrote: »

Scrapping a 10 year old golf! Jaysus.

What's the scrappage deal worth on the golf? You'll get 2k+ for that golf, depending condition/spec of course. Would be a shame to scrap a perfectly good car tbh.

I went to 2 VW dealers. The first dealer will give me €3,000 scrappage. He said it was 50/50 as to whether he would take it in as a trade-in - if he did all he would offer was €3,000! (Go figure!)

The 2nd dealer offered me €3,500 for scrappage but wouldn't take it in as trade-in.

I checked donedeal and they are lots of 2001 Golf's for sale. Vary in price from €2,000 to €3,500.

The first dealer did say my car was in good nick - good body and low mileage 47,000 miles.

I am going to try to sell it privately first but if I can't sell it by end of Feb. I'll have to scrap it.

Seweryn

paultf wrote: »

The first dealer did say my car was in good nick - good body and low mileage 47,000 miles.

It is madness to scrap a car like this, IMHO... Scrappage should not be allowed in this case, if we are to consider the environment at all.

unkel

Seweryn wrote: »

It is madness to scrap a car like this, IMHO... Scrappage should not be allowed in this case, if we are to consider the environment at all.

+1

What an incredible waste. We should all ask ourselves what the hell are we at with all this scrappage lark? A few weeks ago someone wanted to scrap their lovely '01 BMW 530i and now a not even 10 year old great condition Golf with 47k miles on it? In most other countries these cars would be good for another 10 years. At least.

Matt Simis

Dilbert75 wrote: »

Matt,
A bit off topic but is your SW a 156, is it a JTD and does it have a DPF? Only ask cos I'm going to look at one on Monday....

Yep, mine is a 2001 156 2.4JTD Sportswagon. Afaik only the 159 era JTDs have DPFs though Im open to correction from Alfa fans. We took out a Cat like thing (dont think they are called Cats on diesels?) and it wasnt a DPF, just a honeycomb matrix. I have a straight pipe back from the downpipe to the rear and tiny backbox on there to keep up appearances. Sounds excellent now (for a diesel) and garners a bit more MPG and BHP. And no, you do not need a physical Cat for the NCT, diesel only undergo Smog testing anyhow.

I needed something to carry larger loads and the occasional dog but could not bring myself to a buy a Golf, Im a VAG fan but to me there is nothing more dull (sorry OP!). The Alfa is lots of fun to drive (ok its still a diesel, but all things considered) and the (remapped) 2.4JTD engine is a little bit of automotive history as it was the first Common Rail diesel on the market (somehow the Italians figured this out before the Germans!).

Leonard Hofstadter

unkel wrote: »

+1

What an incredible waste. We should all ask ourselves what the hell are we at with all this scrappage lark? A few weeks ago someone wanted to scrap their lovely '01 BMW 530i and now a not even 10 year old great condition Golf with 47k miles on it? In most other countries these cars would be good for another 10 years. At least.

I know 1.4 Golfs are notioriously unreliable, but a car with only 47k miles is way too young to be even thinking of scrapping. Surely a dealer will give it more than the €1,250 it's worth under the scrappage scheme? I mean, it is a Golf so it should sell easily enough.

OP, does it *have* to be a Golf?

You seem convinced, with good reason, that a diesel is not the best option.

But a petrol engined Golf is likely to cause just as much trouble - direct injection petrols really don't take kindly to being driven around town all the time. Maybe the technology has improved now, but older DI petrols all start to go gaga after about 15,000 miles of continuously being driven gently around town - these engines really need to be driven at motorway speeds reasonably often to try and keep carbon deposit build ups to a minimum.

paultf

captainspeed wrote: »

I know 1.4 Golfs are notioriously unreliable, but a car with only 47k miles is way too young to be even thinking of scrapping.

Just to say I sold my Golf today saving it from scrappage. I had it up on Donedeal for a couple of days but didn't get much interest. Friend of my brother-in-law bought it - he got a good car.

The good thing for me now is I can do a deal for a new car for cash so hopefully I will save a few quid.

RedorDead

Think OP needs to do some similar analysis as McAleer did in the Times today - see link

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/motors/2011/0105/1224286768121.html

paultf

RedorDead wrote: »

Think OP needs to do some similar analysis as McAleer did in the Times today - see link

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/motors/2011/0105/1224286768121.html

Came across a similar link on the briskoda website - its a link to a Telegraph article in the UK - "Is diesel dead?" -
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/green-motoring/7166444/Is-diesel-dead.html

I am going for the Golf petrol 1.2 TSI 105 BHP. Toke it for a test drive twice and I am happy with it.

I am wary of low mileage in a diesel and problems with the DPF & the DMF.

I came across this VW PDF on briskoda stating this:-
http://www.circleleasing.com/pdfs/VW%20DPF.pdf

Also I got this email reply from VW Ireland. First part was to do with carbon buildup on a petrol. Second part DPF in diesels.:-

"
Thank you for your query via the Volkswagen website.

I have not had any experience with low millage issues with the flywheel or with carbon build up on petrol engines.

In terms of a DPF systems it not the actual amount of millage that causes the problems but the use of that millage. To obtain maximum efficiently on a DPF engine you must undertake a longer journey as the engine only runs at maximum efficiency at the correct operating temperature. If the user of the vehicle drives regular shout journeys where where the engine rarely reaches operating temperature, it may be susceptible to problems; this style of driving requires more frequent DPF rejuvenation.

DPF rejuvenation requires the user to drive in a certain manner for (est) 20 minutes every 2-4 weeks. This is in order to heat the exhaust, combined with heat generated by the chemical reaction within the DPF to convert the carbon build up to carbon dioxide.

To better understand the running of DPF systems you may wish to consult your local dealer. I have also attached a product guide for your information.

I hope this has effectively answered your query. Please do not hesitate to get in contact with any further queries you may have.

Regards,

Product Marketing

Volkswagen Group Ireland
Block C, Liffey Valley Business Campus
Liffey Valley
Dublin 22
Ireland"