The Visit of Queen Elizabeth

Het-Field

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/visit-by-queen-is-on-the-cards-for-next-year-2476516.html

"A visit by Queen Elizabeth to the Republic is on the cards for next year before the end of President Mary Acleese's term in office.

Foreign Affairs Minister Micheal Martin told the Irish Independent that he still expected developments on the visit by Queen Elizabeth II in 2011 but it would not happen in the lifetime of the present Government.

"I think the way has been cleared for a visit, that is how I would look at it, and I would expect something to happen in 2011," he said.

President McAleese is understood to be keen for a state visit by Queen Elizabeth to happen before the end of her term.

The Government is expecting further progress next year on the preparations for the controversial visit by the queen.

The President has discussed the status of the proposed visit with Taoiseach Brian Cowen on a number of occasions this year.

President McAleese's second seven-year term in Aras an Uachtarain will end next year when a new President is elected towards the end of 2011.

Mr Cowen has given President McAleese updates on the proposed visit over the course of recent meetings.

The Taoiseach indicated earlier this year that the queen would probably make a state visit to Ireland before the end of 2011. Mr Cowen said the process of arranging such a visit had begun between the Government and Downing Street.

Relationships

Mr Martin said he believed the queen should come as British-Irish relationships had transformed in the last 20 years through the Northern Ireland peace process.

"To me the natural, I think, end point of all of that would be the queen coming to Ireland as a formal head of state meeting our head of state.

"Our head of state has received heads of state from all over the world and at this juncture, in this era, it seems odd to me that the head of state of our nearest neighbour hasn't been here yet," Mr Martin said.

Mr Martin admitted that the royal visit would not happen before the General Election.

"That timeline will not accord with an electoral timeline."

- Fionnan Sheahan Political Editor

Irish Independent

I know it has been discussed in the past. However, it would appear that these discussions will have an end product with the visit of Queen Elizabeth in 2011.

Personally, I would feel this to be a positive development. I have no love for the Royal Family. I do not see its raison d'etre, and it is antiquated. In spite of this, their significance as figureheads cannot be under-estimated. I believe this visit signifies a further step in the Peace Process and another step in the healing of old wounds between the nations. Do people feel that there is no need for this visit ? Or do you feel that it will be a significant event ?

Wolfe Tone

What is the point? Will cost us money

She would be a lovely juicy target for militant republicans, will be a huge headache

As for "healing old wounds" is she planning to apologize for events she has overseen as head of state? Planning to strip the Bloody Sunday murderer of his honors? As long as her forces are on this island she is not welcome.

deise go deo

Its the visit of a head of state to a neighboring country, Its not rare, there is nothing wrong with it, its a signal of the normalizing of relations between Ireland and the UK. Personally It dosent really mean anything to me.

OhNoYouDidn't

Personally I don't think it will happen.

It appears to be entirely driven by vanity and ego from President McAleese and I haven't seen or heard any commentary that Mrs Windsor has any interest in visiting here.

Like it or not, it will kick off big time, and that will do the 'image' more damage than Mrs Windsor spending a night in Farmleigh.

I also think the debate about her, what she represents and the cost of keeping her will turn very nasty between Republicans who object to her presence and those who will cheerlead for it, with the rest of us in the middle bemused.

Also, how surreal is this comment from Martin:

"Our head of state has received heads of state from all over the world and at this juncture, in this era, it seems odd to me that the head of state of our nearest neighbour hasn't been here yet,"

Odd? Nothing to do with partition, the troubles, the refusal of her armed forces to investigate their murder of Irish citizens etc? Surely he understands the background...

Wolfe Tone

deise go deo wrote: »

Its the visit of a head of state to a neighboring country, Its not rare, there is nothing wrong with it, its a signal of the normalizing of relations between Ireland and the UK. Personally It dosent really mean anything to me.

Its not just any neighboring country is it? Tell me, what have her forces done on this island while she has been the head of them?

OhNoYouDidn't

deise go deo wrote: »

Its the visit of a head of state to a neighboring country, Its not rare, there is nothing wrong with it, its a signal of the normalizing of relations between Ireland and the UK. Personally It dosent really mean anything to me.

And there are those who will argue she is commander in cheif of an army who engaged in a dirty war in this state and she shouldn't be feted here while the issues are outstanding. Does normalisation really mean forgetting without a whimper?

Its going to be a messy debate and even messier protest.

Het-Field

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

What is the point? Will cost us money

She would be a lovely juicy target for militant republicans, will be a huge headache

As for "healing old wounds" is she planning to apologize for events she has overseen as head of state? Planning to strip the Bloody Sunday murderer of his honors? As long as her forces are on this island she is not welcome.

You know well that NI remains part of the UK.

Wolfe Tone

Het-Field wrote: »

You know well that NI remains part of the UK.

Yeah, and as long as it does, in my mind, she aint welcome.

OhNoYouDidn't

Het-Field wrote: »

You know well that NI remains part of the UK.

...and we are off...

deise go deo

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

Its not just any neighboring country is it? Tell me, what have her forces done on this island while she has been the head of them?

I know well, but she is and was a figure head, she had no say in what happened, if she had tried to intervene it would have sparked a constructional crisis in Britain which would have resulted in her being removed as head of state. She has no power to intervene in government policy.

Its the past, and thats a good thing, There is as much reason to be against this visit as there is to be against Gerry Adams standing in Louth, ie their past role in the troubles in the north and their mutual refusal to fully denounce the worst of their past.

Dr. Baltar

Agree with Mussolini completely.

Not a republican, I'm quite neutral on the subject, but allowing the Queen of the UK to visit the Republic will bring nothing positive.
It will cost us money.
It will increase paramilitary activity.
It could possibly see another 2006 Dublin Riots.

On a personal note, I would not feel comfortable with the head of an army that has devastated this country arriving on this Island without offering an apology.

OhNoYouDidn't

deise go deo wrote: »

I know well, but she is and was a figure head, she had no say in what happened, if she had tried to intervene it would have sparked a constructional crisis in Britain which would have resulted in her being removed as head of state. She has no power to intervene in government policy.

Its the past, and thats a good thing, There is as much reason to be against this visit as there is to be against Gerry Adams standing in Louth, ie their past role in the troubles in the north and their mutual refusal to fully denounce the worst of their past.

I disagree over her power as COS, but at the very least she could have denounced loyalist paramilitaries in the way various Irish Presidents denounced the Provo's...

Come back to me when Gerry Adams costs the taxpayer €10m to stay in Farmleigh.

mgmt

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

Its not just any neighboring country is it? Tell me, what have her forces done on this island while she has been the head of them?

Other counties have gotten over this. President Ford and Emperor Hirohito:



I don't like the idea of a monarchy but the British are decent people and their head of state needs to be respected.

DrumSteve

To be honest she's just an old lady coming here on a visit.

I couldn't give a bollox. I'll still wake up, get breakfast, go out, return home and the world will still be intact when she leaves.

Wolfe Tone

deise go deo wrote: »

I know well, but she is and was a figure head, she had no say in what happened, if she had tried to intervene it would have sparked a constructional crisis in Britain which would have resulted in her being removed as head of state. She has no power to intervene in government policy.

Its the past, and thats a good thing, There is as much reason to be against this visit as there is to be against Gerry Adams standing in Louth, ie their past role in the troubles in the north and their mutual refusal to fully denounce the worst of their past.

Do you really think she would have been overthrown because she denounced what her armed forces where doing in a war which the vast majority of her subjects did not approve of?


She could still apologise.

OhNoYouDidn't

DrumSteve wrote: »

To be honest she's just an old lady coming here on a visit.

I couldn't give a bollox. I'll still wake up, get breakfast, go out, return home and the world will still be intact when she leaves.

But the city centre of Dublin might not be....

mgmt

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

Do you really think she would have been overthrown because she denounced what her armed forces where doing in a war which the vast majority of her subjects did not approve of?


She could still apologise.

Genuine question. If Elizabeth dies. Would you oppose a state visit by King Charles/William? Bearing in mind they were not head of the British Army over the troubles.

Wolfe Tone

mgmt wrote: »

Genuine question. If Elizabeth dies. Would you oppose a state visit by King Charles/William? Bearing in mind they were not head of the British Army over the troubles.

I wouldnt be happy with a monarch visiting Ireland while the 6 are still under Westminster.

OhNoYouDidn't

mgmt wrote: »

Genuine question. If Elizabeth dies. Would you oppose a state visit by King Charles/William? Bearing in mind they were not head of the British Army over the troubles.

lugha

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

What is the point? Will cost us money

She would be a lovely juicy target for militant republicans, will be a huge headache

As for "healing old wounds" is she planning to apologize for events she has overseen as head of state? Planning to strip the Bloody Sunday murderer of his honors? As long as her forces are on this island she is not welcome.

The entire nub of your gist is that the British head of state should not be welcome because of past and on-going British activities on this island (though I cannot see how anyone who supports democracy can object to British rule here as the vast majority of Irish people have accepted it).
Surely the logical stance for us to take is to break all ties, cultural and economic, with Britain? If Britain are guilty of crimes to grave as to prohibit a state visit then surely we should terminate diplomatic relations entirely (and tell them to stuff their multi-billion pound loan! :P)

Denerick

Despite the protestations of dinosaurs and imbeciles (And the inevitable violence too as the average little rascal gets a sense of validation to throw stones at police), this MUST happen. Republicans are short sighted idiots at the end of the day, they seem to think they can persuade unionists to be consensual members of a Republic whilst simultaneously attacking their cultural heritage and heroes.

The Queen is the head of state of our closest ally. We have more in common culturally and economically with the UK than we have with any other country. Can we just grow up as a nation and leave the pathetic nationalism behind us.

nick 56

Our brave FF government and it’s rich pals has sold us and our children to the German bankers. Our president is off on a bridge building love fest with the British. We as a nation are F****d .

Will all this make a difference to our future lives? You bet it will!

Denerick

DrumSteve wrote: »

To be honest she's just an old lady coming here on a visit.

I couldn't give a bollox. I'll still wake up, get breakfast, go out, return home and the world will still be intact when she leaves.

Unfortunately c. 500 people on this entire island feel they have the right to bring chaos to everyone's lives because they are cretins still clinging on to a disgusting late 19th century ideology that has kept humanity in bondage for too long.

Like most people, I'll be going to work, smoking a few cigarettes, watching TV, and going to sleep that evening. Unfortunately there are some people (Foaming at the mouth idiots) who think they have a right to take matters into their own hands.

Wolfe Tone

Typical fare from you Denerick.

Denerick

lugha wrote: »

The entire nub of your gist is that the British head of state should not be welcome because of past and on-going British activities on this island (though I cannot see how anyone who supports democracy can object to British rule here as the vast majority of Irish people have accepted it).
Surely the logical stance for us to take is to break all ties, cultural and economic, with Britain? If Britain are guilty of crimes to grave as to prohibit a state visit then surely we should terminate diplomatic relations entirely (and tell them to stuff their multi-billion pound loan! :P)

And while we're at it, we should jam all radio and Tv signals coming from Britain. Everybody knows that no true Irishman watches Eastenders, Strictly Come Dancing or X Factor. O come all ye comely maidens of the true Gaels! Forbid the talking box in the corner as we dance a jig round our bog fire!

mgmt

Has Martin McGuinness as Deputy First Minister met/hosted Queen Elizabeth?

Denerick

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

Typical fare from you Denerick.

I'm sick of all this shíte. Nationalism is a virus that lays siege to the critical faculties of those who should know better. Truly, there is no greater evil in this world.

gizmo555

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

I wouldnt be happy with a monarch visiting Ireland while the 6 are still under Westminster.

The Irish people, North and South, voted by a large majority in 1998 that a united Ireland will only ever come about by the consent of the peoples of both parts of the island.

How, exactly, is insulting the unionist community in Northern Ireland by telling them that their head of state is unwelcome to visit the country you'd like them to join likely to bring that consent closer?

PeterIanStaker

Denerick wrote: »

Unfortunately c. 500 people on this entire island feel they have the right to bring chaos to everyone's lives because they are cretins still clinging on to a disgusting late 19th century ideology that has kept humanity in bondage for too long.

Didn't know that many people worked for Independent Newspapers :pac:

OhNoYouDidn't

lugha wrote: »

The entire nub of your gist is that the British head of state should not be welcome because of past and on-going British activities on this island (though I cannot see how anyone who supports democracy can object to British rule here as the vast majority of Irish people have accepted it).
Surely the logical stance for us to take is to break all ties, cultural and economic, with Britain? If Britain are guilty of crimes to grave as to prohibit a state visit then surely we should terminate diplomatic relations entirely (and tell them to stuff their multi-billion pound loan! :P)

While I think there is a valid logic there, what irritiates me the most about this debate is the patronising tone, see denerick right on queue, that anyone who has any form of objection to the visit is a knuckledragging Provo.

Simple reality is that enough people DON'T think relations have normalised enough for this sort of visit. No amount of provokotive rhetoric from those who do will change that.

OhNoYouDidn't

gizmo555 wrote: »

The Irish people, North and South, voted by a large majority in 1998 that a united Ireland will only ever come about by the consent of the peoples of both parts of the island.

How, exactly, is insulting the unionist community in Northern Ireland by telling them that their head of state is unwelcome to visit the country you'd like them to join likely to bring that consent closer?

How exactly is a full scale riot beamed across the world going to bring that consent closer?

Reconciliation is a two way street, and the British state are dragging their heels on admitting and atoning for their part in the campaign.

Denerick

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

How exactly is a full scale riot beamed across the world going to bring that consent closer?

Just because you personally want there to be a riot doesn't necessarily mean there will be one. Depends on how succesful your incitment is I suppose, but I don't think there will be a riot like in 2006.

Reconciliation is a two way street, and the British state are dragging their heels on admitting and atoning for their part in the campaign.

Bucketloads of enquiries, released prisoners, Cameron and Blair beating their chest in parliament... yeah, the Brits haven't made any effort whatsoever. :rolleyes:

Wolfe Tone

Denerick wrote: »

I'm sick of all this shíte. Nationalism is a virus that lays siege to the critical faculties of those who should know better. Truly, there is no greater evil in this world.

You are sick of all Irish people too, elitist that you are, freely labeling them idiots in various threads.

OhNoYouDidn't

Denerick wrote: »

Despite the protestations of dinosaurs and imbeciles (And the inevitable violence too as the average little rascal gets a sense of validation to throw stones at police), this MUST happen. Republicans are short sighted idiots at the end of the day, they seem to think they can persuade unionists to be consensual members of a Republic whilst simultaneously attacking their cultural heritage and heroes.

The Queen is the head of state of our closest ally. We have more in common culturally and economically with the UK than we have with any other country. Can we just grow up as a nation and leave the pathetic nationalism behind us.

By indulging the English in fawning over their heredetary queen?

There are legitimate arguments on both sides of this debate, but the problem with this whole topic is people like you will wind the other side up so much that it will cause the reaction.

You are the one coming across as the zealot here...

PeterIanStaker

Seriously, though I don't give a rat's ass about a wizened crone visiting this little Vatican outpost, we really have bigger fish to fry, - although Fianna Fail and royalty do have a great deal in common with each other, what with the sense of entitlement and both hopefully dying out in the near future.

Biggins

I welcome English government MP's as true democratic elected representatives of their nation.
However as their queen is an un-elected person who is also (in my opinion) really just another average person within an overpaid, over inflated, useless family heredity hierarchy that at times behave as if they are all our "betters", can stay away.

It will be a further un-necessary expense on our over burdened state and will do little to ease or improve things here at present (nor in the near future, but thats an opinion too).

OhNoYouDidn't

Denerick wrote: »

Just because you personally want there to be a riot doesn't necessarily mean there will be one. Depends on how succesful your incitment is I suppose, but I don't think there will be a riot like in 2006.

MY incitement? You can fcuk off immediatly with the slurs. You aren't hijacking another thread with your allegations.

Denerick wrote: »

Bucketloads of enquiries, released prisoners, Cameron and Blair beating their chest in parliament... yeah, the Brits haven't made any effort whatsoever. :rolleyes:

There are still huge questions about the behaviour of the British army and intellegence services, of which she is commander and was for the duration of the troubles. That might mean nothing to you, but it does to others.

Denerick

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

MY incitement? You can fcuk off immediatly with the slurs. You aren't hijacking another thread with your allegations.

Such a precious reaction. All I'm saying is that you seem convinced there will be a riot. Do you want there to be a riot?

There are still huge questions about the behaviour of the British army and intellegence services, of which she is commander and was for the duration of the troubles. That might mean nothing to you, but it does to others.

She wasn't 'commander' of the BA. She didn't have any real control of military policy. Do you not understand that all the Queen really does is sign off on letters and visit nice community centers in middle England?

OhNoYouDidn't

Denerick wrote: »

Such a precious reaction. All I'm saying is that you seem convinced there will be a riot. Do you want there to be a riot?

You really are a poisonious turd. No I don't, but there will be one.

Denerick wrote: »

She wasn't 'commander' of the BA. She didn't have any real control of military policy. Do you not understand that all the Queen really does is sign off on letters and visit nice community centers in middle England?

She could have made a statement at any point condemning the Loyalists, like various Irish Presidents did to Republicans. It was done in her name and at no point did she distance herself.

lugha

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

Simple reality is that enough people DON'T think relations have normalised enough for this sort of visit. No amount of provokotive rhetoric from those who do will change that.

Well that is on explanation. And if all objections were broadly along the same lines it might have some credibility. But they don’t. Already thrown into the mix here is the cost (i.e. we would all be thrilled to have the old dear but for the dreadful cost. I mean we Irish have always dealt harshly with any of our public reps who wasted public monies or facilitated tax evaders! ) And I’m sure we will soon be hearing the argument about the inappropriateness of having an unelected monarch as head of state. Oh, and lets not forget the sectarian angle. Of course all such protesters will quickly fall silent when it is pointed out that states other than Britain are guilty of such “sins” but state visits by them provoke nothing like the same response.
No, a much simpler explanation is that many Irish people are not terribly secure about their Irishness and seem to favour “not British” as the primary qualifier of their identity. No doubt, one of these post-colonial traits. Perhaps such nonsense will evaporate with the passing generations.

And I agree with Derericks sentiments, if not language, on nationalism (of all types, not just Irish). I see it as a thoroughly negative impulse of man. Indeed the British deeds that so many Irish nationalists object to were carried out by exactly such an impulse to act for the glory of King and country.

Hannibal

She is the head of the British state. COLLUSION by the British state and loyalist paramilitaries brought about the Dublin/Monaghan bombings and the attempted bombing on Dublin's Pearse Street in 1994. Regardless of whether she's going to apologise or not for the countless crimes the British government have committed on this island, the British havents even acknowledged most of the stuff they did.
How is inviting the British royal family to Ireland going to achieve anything? these are an incestrous bunch of Germans anyway. Her husband is both her second cousin and third cousin on two seperate linages, these people are quite clearly sick.
Anthing the IRA in its various guises got upto doesnt come close to what the British government forces done here. The only difference is the British had a media machine behind them that painted the IRA as the baddies and people that claim otherwise only have to look into the history of the north pre 1969 and then tell me the Provo's were wrong.
She should come here only if she's prepared to get on her knees on front of the Irish people and beg for forgiveness for what her country have done here. It would make me sick looking at Irish people bowing their heads to a foreign monarch

Poccington

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

So because he was Colonel in Chief of the Parachute Regiment back in 1977, which is a purely ceremonial role, he can't come to Ireland?

KeithAFC

I don't get why she is going to the ROI. If she wants to do that and the ROI is happy with that, fair enough but id like for her to come to N.I to meet her followers.

danbohan

Poccington wrote: »

So because he was Colonel in Chief of the Parachute Regiment back in 1977, which is a purely ceremonial role, he can't come to Ireland?

maybe if your brother or friend was shot in derry by the paras on bloody sunday you might not be very happy for him to visit Ireland , ceremonial or not he was still commander of that regiment

Poccington

danbohan wrote: »

maybe if your brother or friend was shot in derry by the paras on bloody sunday you might not be very happy for him to visit Ireland , ceremonial or not he was still commander of that regiment

In 1977.

Remind me again when Bloody Sunday happened?

Once again, he was Colonel in Chief. He never commanded the Parachute Regiment, he never even served in the Army.

danbohan

KeithAFC wrote: »

I don't get why she is going to the ROI. If she wants to do that and the ROI is happy with that, fair enough but id like for her to come to N.I to meet her followers.

poor woman , she has enough trouble coping with bigoted racists in prince phillip without wanting come and meet more of them

KeithAFC

danbohan wrote: »

poor woman , she has enough trouble coping with bigoted racists in prince phillip without wanting come and meet more of them

Auch, come on. You want to unite with such bigots. Show some mercy.

Im sure the Queen will love the sash.

Fo Real

It's almost impossible to have discussions involving the Queen or the Royal Family as certain posters get over-emotional and let their primitive nationalistic urges prevent them from thinking clearly or logically.

It will be just another day for me when the Queen visits. The same as when any other head of state arrives in the country. She isn't disrupting my daily life. But what will disrupt my day is a mob of goons throwing bricks and destroying the city centre to make a point.

Meanwhile the Queen leaves the next day and we're left to clean up the mess. Stay at home that day if you fear the British invasion so much.

KeithAFC

Poccington wrote: »

In 1977.

Remind me again when Bloody Sunday happened?

Once again, he was Colonel in Chief. He never commanded the Parachute Regiment, he never even served in the Army.

Most people know that. Just some re writing of history taking place again.

OhNoYouDidn't

Poccington wrote: »

In 1977.

Remind me again when Bloody Sunday happened?

Once again, he was Colonel in Chief. He never commanded the Parachute Regiment, he never even served in the Army.

Are the British Royal Family the only group of people in the world entirely insulated from taking responsibility for any activity that occured in organisations they were in charge of?

danbohan

Poccington wrote: »

In 1977.

Remind me again when Bloody Sunday happened?

Once again, he was Colonel in Chief. He never commanded the Parachute Regiment, he never even served in the Army.

terribly sorry , nit picking are we ? 1971 it was . were you around ?. hes wearing a parachute uniform and he was colonel in chief/commander /whatever you want to call it of that regiment

now perhaps you could answer my original question , how would you feel if some friends or relatives were murdered by that regiment in cold blood .?