Replace NTL modem/router setup?

Dan_Solo

Hi all.
I have an NTL cable modem for a few years now connected to a Netgear wireless router with and ethernet cable. This router is on its last legs. Anyway, I noticed that newer UPC customers get an all-in-one modem/router when they sign up, so can I buy something similar and do this myself?
Would something like this do the trick? Will it function with a UPC cable signal, or is that a generic thing?
www.argos.ie/static/Product/partNumber/9254709/Trail/searchtext%3EROUTER.htm
Thanks!

Spear

Dan_Solo wrote: »

Hi all.
I have an NTL cable modem for a few years now connected to a Netgear wireless router with and ethernet cable. This router is on its last legs. Anyway, I noticed that newer UPC customers get an all-in-one modem/router when they sign up, so can I buy something similar and do this myself?
Would something like this do the trick? Will it function with a UPC cable signal, or is that a generic thing?
www.argos.ie/static/Product/partNumber/9254709/Trail/searchtext%3EROUTER.htm
Thanks!

This isn't possible, you're stuck with a UPC provided modem no matter what. The current standard modem/router is the Cisco EPC2425, which is pretty poor. You'd still be better off with your own router and the modem. The 100 meg product provides a different modem/router but I haven't seen much feedback on those yet.

Dan_Solo

Why do Argos sell cable modems/routers if they will never work with the provided broadband cable?

bealtine

Dan_Solo wrote: »

Why do Argos sell cable modems/routers if they will never work with the provided broadband cable?

You'll have to ask Argos that question...

You might be able to persuade UPC to provision a modem if you are lucky but I wouldn't bet on it.

dub45

Dan_Solo wrote: »

Why do Argos sell cable modems/routers if they will never work with the provided broadband cable?

The routers sold under this description are usually sold for use with cable modems. They are described as cable routers because they do not have an integrated dsl modem. They will have a wan port for connection to the modem.

jor el

Dan_Solo wrote: »

Why do Argos sell cable modems/routers if they will never work with the provided broadband cable?

That's not a cable modem, it's a router. It can be used with any type of broadband modem.

You don't want the all in one modem/wifi router that UPC provide now anyway, it's crap. Just replace your router.

Dan_Solo

Thanks all. I've asked UPC if they'll sell me one and if it's cheap I'll go with that. I don't live in Buckingham Palace, so a crappy router will do me!
Otherwise a new €20 Netgear router it looks like.
Cheers.

vibe666

Dan_Solo wrote: »

Thanks all. I've asked UPC if they'll sell me one and if it's cheap I'll go with that. I don't live in Buckingham Palace, so a crappy router will do me!
Otherwise a new €20 Netgear router it looks like.
Cheers.

afaik, UPC will sell you one for either €40 or €50 and it's not even worth €20 so save yourself the hassle and just buy something half decent for less money.

the EPC2425 shouldn't be used by anyone, ever.

the regular support line will only troubleshoot basic connectivity issues and will pass you to 'advanced' premium rate support for anything more complicated and if you need to do that, you might as well call netgear, linksys/cisco, dlink or whoever directly to support your decent router and it will probably cost less than UPC support.

bealtine

vibe666 wrote: »

the EPC2425 shouldn't be used by anyone, ever.

I second that the EPC2435 is possibly the worst router/modem ever produced.

You are better off with the 2203 and your own router

vibe666

bealtine wrote: »

I second that the EPC2435 is possibly the worst router/modem ever produced.

You are better off with the 2203 and your own router

i actually had an engineer out a few months back because of some phone problems and he was on the phone to the support guys getting them to run some tests and they kept trying to get him to replace my 2203 with the 2425, but he kept knocking them back.

he said he'd been doing it for 5 or 6 years and had only ever replaced one 2203 in all that time and that turned out to be the psu as it turned out after further testing that the 2203 itself was still working fine, but that he had replaced dozens of failed 2425's even tho they'd only been using them for a couple of years.

stick with the 2203 and get yourself a half decent router and you'll be much better off.

Random

when upc setup 30meg broadband for me are you saying i won't be able to use my own router with it? thanks

bealtine

Random wrote: »

when upc setup 30meg broadband for me are you saying i won't be able to use my own router with it? thanks

We're saying the 2425 is a pos, that's the one they supply with the "higher" packages. If you can get the 2203 modem then it will be really easy as installing your own router with the 2435 is really hit and miss especially if you have the phone service as well.

So try get the 2203 if you can.

Random

so i should call and request modem only and not a modem router?

vibe666

Random wrote: »

so i should call and request modem only and not a modem router?

yes, although its really down to the engineer when they come. they will probably try and convince you to go for the modem/router combo.

just tell them you have to use a specific router for work and that you can't have the epc2425 as other people from work have had to have them swapped out in the past as they don't work properly with your work router.

i've had 3 mates now who've done that and have had a 2203 installed instead of the 2425 modem/router combo without any real issues.

the only possible problem is that they might not have any spare, so make sure you call and request it and get them to put it on the ticket so the engineer knows in advance, although that doesn't always work either if they don't read it beforehand.

Random

i guess i'll have to have a word with the engineer when he comes and see. hope he knows what he's up to.

vibe666

well, they probably (most likely) won't want to or know how to install your own router, but they'll do the modem only install and leave you to it and rightly so, its no their business once the modem is installed if the next bit of kit isn't theirs.

also, not sure if you are aware or not, but if you are coming from a DSL broadband provider it is worth noting that an ADSL specific router (i.e. one with a DSL modem built into it and an RJ11 phone socket on it) won't work properly (or at all) with the cable modem.

you'll need what's usually called a broadband or cable router (i.e. with no ADSL modem). these routers don't have their own built in modem at all and need to be used with either a separate ADSL or Cable modem.

they should have a 5th RJ45 socket labelled as a WAN port which connects to the modem, as well as your (usual) 4 RJ45 LAN ports.

(it's the one on the right in this pic)



if you see a socket like the one on the left on your router then it's no good for use with UPC broadband, only if the 5th port on the back is like the one on the right.

sorry its late and i'm tired and should be fast asleep, i hope i'm making sense and not confusing you too much.

Random

as it is at the moment i use dsl modem and hook it up via ethernet to a router. i had assumed upc would work similiar when i got it.

lensman

ask for the SA-2203 modem from UPC if you can & get your own router,...this one seems good value

vibe666

Random wrote: »

as it is at the moment i use dsl modem and hook it up via ethernet to a router. i had assumed upc would work similiar when i got it.

you should be grand then. just out of curiosity, what model router do you have?

Bozo Skeleton

Anyone got any suggestions to help me out with this?
My housemates and I are gonna switch over to UPC in the next week or so (coz Eircom has been terrible in every way)
From what I'm reading here, the 2245 router is to be avoided at all costs! So, my question is does anyone have any ideas about which router we should get? Bearing in mind
1) I have a PS3 and want as good a connection as possible for online gaming.
2) There is a household of 3 of us going to be sharing the broadband connection
We're getting the 30Mb Fibre Broadband package, with the free phone calls, which they say comes with a free wireless router. Doesn't say which router it is though. Should I even go as far as to get a second router for my PS3 gaming? Any ideas / advice would be appreciated!

Anan1

Bozo Skeleton wrote: »

Anyone got any suggestions to help me out with this?
My housemates and I are gonna switch over to UPC in the next week or so (coz Eircom has been terrible in every way)
From what I'm reading here, the 2245 router is to be avoided at all costs! So, my question is does anyone have any ideas about which router we should get? Bearing in mind
1) I have a PS3 and want as good a connection as possible for online gaming.
2) There is a household of 3 of us going to be sharing the broadband connection
We're getting the 30Mb Fibre Broadband package, with the free phone calls, which they say comes with a free wireless router. Doesn't say which router it is though. Should I even go as far as to get a second router for my PS3 gaming? Any ideas / advice would be appreciated!

The free modem/router is the Cisco EPC2425, which everyone rightly says is rubbish. I had UPC replace mine with the SA2203 modem and bought an Apple Airport Extreme router to use with it and i'm completely happy with my setup.

Bozo Skeleton

Anan1 wrote: »

The free modem/router is the Cisco EPC2425, which everyone rightly says is rubbish. I had UPC replace mine with the SA2203 modem and bought an Apple Airport Extreme router to use with it and i'm completely happy with my setup.

Cheers man. I'm gonna ring them today and request the SA 2203 modem instead of the EPC 2425 modem/router. Every thread that I've read about the EPC 2425 that UPC provide has been panning it, it seems to be rubbish! It's a pain in the ass to have to be buying a seperate router, but I suppose it's the better option

Anan1

Bozo Skeleton wrote: »

Cheers man. I'm gonna ring them today and request the SA 2203 modem instead of the EPC 2425 modem/router. Every thread that I've read about the EPC 2425 that UPC provide has been panning it, it seems to be rubbish! It's a pain in the ass to have to be buying a seperate router, but I suppose it's the better option

I wasn't too happy myself, especially as the Airport Extreme cost €150. That said, I needed a fast, reliable connection over wifi and now I have it.:)

GekkePrutser

What's so bad about this 2425? I'm thinking of signing up with UPC and as I'll be ordering online and doing a self-install (otherwise it will cost 30 euro extra) and will choose the 30mbit option I won't be able to decline the wifi modem/router. So I'm wondering what's so bad about it.

Anyway I would really like to put a Draytek Vigor VPN router behind it. But it can't have NAT or anything then.

Is there any way I can set this 2425 into a 'dumb' modem option? Or maybe I'll just get the 10mbit package first and then upgrade or something

Spear

GekkePrutser wrote: »

What's so bad about this 2425? I'm thinking of signing up with UPC and as I'll be ordering online and doing a self-install (otherwise it will cost 30 euro extra) and will choose the 30mbit option I won't be able to decline the wifi modem/router. So I'm wondering what's so bad about it.

Anyway I would really like to put a Draytek Vigor VPN router behind it. But it can't have NAT or anything then.

Is there any way I can set this 2425 into a 'dumb' modem option? Or maybe I'll just get the 10mbit package first and then upgrade or something

There's a bridge option, if you don't need the phone service.

Dan_Solo

I've been offered a freebie wireless router by a mate, so obviously that's my favoured option.
But can anyone at all be specific as to what's wrong with the 2425? I don't need the best router ever, and a one unit solution still sounds much neater to me.

Spear

Dan_Solo wrote: »

I've been offered a freebie wireless router by a mate, so obviously that's my favoured option.
But can anyone at all be specific as to what's wrong with the 2425? I don't need the best router ever, and a one unit solution still sounds much neater to me.

Crappy interface, it loses port forwarding details after a power cycle etc. It can be set in bridge mode, and you can use your other router normally at least.

Pataman

Spear wrote: »

Crappy interface, it loses port forwarding details after a power cycle etc. It can be set in bridge mode, and you can use your other router normally at least.

Yep mine has done this also. If I was to bridge it and use my own router, would it loose the "bridge" setting after a power cycle also?
Just realised I have the phone service so I cant bridge it. Any other options?

jor el

Pataman wrote: »

Any other options?

I think that replacing the modem may be your only option, either that or keep what you have and live with it's crappyness. A Scientific Atlanta 2203 modem has phone ports, and you can connect it's output to your own router (since it has no built in router). UPC might provide one if you ask.

GekkePrutser

If a 2425 is stable connection-wise I suppose that would do for me. But I'd have to disable the WiFi in Bridge mode so it's a bit of a waste.

Would they force you to upgrade to a 2425 if you get the 10mbit package first and then upgrade the connection speed?

vibe666

GekkePrutser wrote: »

If a 2425 is stable connection-wise I suppose that would do for me. But I'd have to disable the WiFi in Bridge mode so it's a bit of a waste.

Would they force you to upgrade to a 2425 if you get the 10mbit package first and then upgrade the connection speed?

they don't force you to take the EPC2425 when you get the higher packages, they just install it by default unless you tell them otherwise, but as the 2203 modem is in short supply, it can take a bit of "encouragement" to get them to give you one instead of the 2425 as they probably have big sheds full of them piling up that people reading these forums don't want.

Bozo Skeleton

vibe666 wrote: »

they don't force you to take the EPC2425 when you get the higher packages, they just install it by default unless you tell them otherwise, but as the 2203 modem is in short supply, it can take a bit of "encouragement" to get them to give you one instead of the 2425 as they probably have big sheds full of them piling up that people reading these forums don't want.

Heh heh, I asked them about getting the 2203 modem, but they told me they had none in stock. I'm getting the 30mb broadband installed on Saturday, with the EPC 2425 modem/router, so I'll see how it goes. I haven't got the spare money to be buying a router at the moment anyway.
They told me if I had problems with it I could contact technical support and they might be able to swap the EPC2425 for a SA2203 modem. Ideally I won't have to do this, and then have to buy my own router, but everything I've heard about this EPC2425 modem/router has been very negative. Fingers crossed I won't have problems with it

Random

so i got it installed and ended up getting the 2425. setup all the wifi etc and next time i login all the wifi options are gone. i took an instant dislike to it, put it into bridging mode and hooked up my own router. no problems now.

vibe666

Random wrote: »

so i got it installed and ended up getting the 2425. setup all the wifi etc and next time i login all the wifi options are gone. i took an instant dislike to it, put it into bridging mode and hooked up my own router. no problems now.

hang on, i'll send you a membership form to the "cisco epc2425 routers are crap club". can't guarantee a delivery time tho, we're pretty busy sending out forms at the minute, it's like xmas eve at the north pole! :pac:

ntlbell

I've battled for days now to try and get a modem from them, no joy.

how were people getting modems?

They keep telling me they don't supply modems anymore

GekkePrutser

ntlbell wrote: »

I've battled for days now to try and get a modem from them, no joy.

how were people getting modems?

They keep telling me they don't supply modems anymore

Well they still supply a non-wifi modem with their 10 mbit package, unless they charge for it now? Check out their broadband page: Link. But it doesn't specify what you'll get on the 10 mbit package. Maybe just a 2425 with the wifi disabled then?

Dan_Solo

Anyway...
After all that I just used the first wireless router that was free from a mate. It's a Linksys WG64GS (I think) and it's currently working fine.
Maybe I will keep router and modem separate for a while longer!

vibe666

Dan_Solo wrote: »

Anyway...
After all that I just used the first wireless router that was free from a mate. It's a Linksys WG64GS (I think) and it's currently working fine.
Maybe I will keep router and modem separate for a while longer!

is it a WRT54GS maybe? the black & blue ones with 2 antenna at the back.

one of the best consumer grade routers ever made imho, i'm still using one now on my 30mbps and have been using them for around 6 years now and i'm only just thinking of moving on to something new now and only because of the move to 802.11N & full gigabit ethernet at home.

the only downside is that the default linksys firmware is a little basic and can be flaky with high usage, but most of the WRT54G routers will work with alternative 3rd party firmwares like DDWRT, openWRT & tomato, altho you'd need to check the specific model number to confirm compatibility.

Dan_Solo

Oh yes, that's the one, 54. Working a treat.

Random

put your epc2425 in bridging mode - http://<ip>/GatewayMode.asp

KeRbDoG

Random wrote: »

put your epc2425 in bridging mode - http://<ip>/GatewayMode.asp

Do you loose the phone/RJ11 functionality in Bridging mode?

Random

sorry, you probably do. i have no idea though because i don't have phone services from them so i didn't consider it.

KeRbDoG

Random wrote: »

sorry, you probably do. i have no idea though because i don't have phone services from them so i didn't consider it.

Tried it and I can confirm you loose the phone/RJ11 functionality through the Cisco2425 Back to using the 'DMZ' method

jor el

New UPC Modem and Speed issues thread here. All posts there from now on.