34 cattle die

locky76

I heard a story yesterday of a man in east liomerick who was feeding his cattle silage and dried beet pulp, they were without water for three or four days during the frost so he left them out into a field with a stream.
they horsed into the water and thirty four of them are meant to have died with ruptured stomachs from the swelled up beet!
i have to add that i heard this in a pub but is there any truth to it?:(

bbam

Three or four days is a long long time....
Ours are on second cut round bales and 1kg beef nuts, they were mad to drink every single day without exception, couldn't imagine leaving them a few days no matter how tough a job getting water to them is..

ihatetractors

locky76 wrote: »

I heard a story yesterday of a man in east liomerick who was feeding his cattle silage and dried beet pulp, they were without water for three or four days during the frost so he left them out into a field with a stream.
they horsed into the water and thirty four of them are meant to have died with ruptured stomachs from the swelled up beet!
i have to add that i heard this in a pub but is there any truth to it?:(

If it is true he should have the stock taken off him!, number one priority on any farm should be your safety/welfare and your stocks.... If you can't do the veeeery basics you should take a good look at your self :mad:

pakalasa

ihatetractors wrote: »

If it is true he should have the stock taken off him!, number one priority on any farm should be your safety/welfare and your stocks.... If you can't do the veeeery basics you should take a good look at your self :mad:

I'd see it more of a tragedy to be honest. When you dont know the circumstances you cant judge. Could be an old guy trying to manage on his own.

blue5000

It could easily happen alright, beet pulp will absorb its own weight in water.

snowman707

ihatetractors wrote: »

If it is true he should have the stock taken off him!, number one priority on any farm should be your safety/welfare and your stocks.... If you can't do the veeeery basics you should take a good look at your self :mad:

easy for you to say, speaking as a tillage farmer, try to see beyond your own gate for once.

ihatetractors

snowman707 wrote: »

easy for you to say, speaking as a tillage farmer, try to see beyond your own gate for once.

Excuse you we keep cattle and dairy cows :mad:, so don't dare lecture me. I have no interest in keeping stock, but i do everything involved bar milking. As the auld fella says, no point in doin something you don't like because you'll never enjoy it and will never be good

Muckit

I'd say its pub talk alright. In all fairness wouldn't you cut out the 'dried beet pulp' if your stock were low/without water?

If it did happen, it's a terrible mishap, i wouldn't be too quick to blame the farmer. Prices might be bad, but I've never heard of anyone deliberately trying to kill their own stock!

On the water shortage note...... just curious....are many of ye lads considering doing some remedial work next summer in order to lessen the chances of freezing pipes happening again? (ie lowering and insolating pipes) Or are you happy enough to take your chances???

mantua

34 cattle is a lot of cattle to lose!!:( as said above its his livelyhood so i doubt he left them without water deliberatley!! heard recently that 40 cattle died in a slatted house which went on fire in bohola the last night!! plus the fact that they only put the shed up last year i think!

red bull

I have a of of stock in shed including dry dairy cows no water since monday week feeding baled silage no meals dont think its a problem but water must be restricted when it thaws or they could have twisted gut

whelan1

:eek:

red bull wrote: »

I have a of of stock in shed including dry dairy cows no water since monday week feeding baled silage no meals dont think its a problem but water must be restricted when it thaws or they could have twisted gut

how would you like to be with out water since monday week

mikemac

red bull wrote: »

I have a of of stock in shed including dry dairy cows no water since monday week feeding baled silage no meals dont think its a problem but water must be restricted when it thaws or they could have twisted gut

Monday week, if you ate dry food and went without water since Monday week you'd know it. And cattle are thirsty beasts at the best of times.

Oh the day you give them water they will drink like it's their last sup and I hope you have no issues but it never should have come to that in the first place.

If you have a tractor and a tank you can get water from your nearest river or lake

babybrian

I dont know how any farmer cant get water to his/her cattle everyday, its 2010 we all have tractors, slurry tanks, buckets, barrels and if you dont, borrow 1 :mad:.. I think its pure laziness and almost bordering on animal cruelty.. small bit of cop-on needed plus I wouldnt have too much sympathy for that farmer if he did lose cattle, sympathy for the cattle alright....

newtoboards

Heard the same story but it was a farmer near Tuam when I heard it. Now I definitely don't believe it.

the al kid

I would find this hard to believe too.Didnt think beet pulp was readily available with the demise of the sugar beet industry in this country-so presumably would have to be imported.

Al

BeeDI

babybrian wrote: »

I dont know how any farmer cant get water to his/her cattle everyday, its 2010 we all have tractors, slurry tanks, buckets, barrels and if you dont, borrow 1 :mad:.. I think its pure laziness and almost bordering on animal cruelty.. small bit of cop-on needed plus I wouldnt have too much sympathy for that farmer if he did lose cattle, sympathy for the cattle alright....

I have ten cows on slats, getting baled silage only. Not dry silage by any means as it was cut between five am and seven am, on a Friday. Baled that same Friday night before midnight. The ten cows are consuming forty five gallons a day on average during the cold snap. I kept a close eye on actual consumption just for future reference.

So leaving one of those cows without water for two weeks, is depriving her of sixty one gallons of required intake. Just imaging the effect that is having.

I wouldn't sleep if it went beyond the second day without giving them water.

5live

We had no water in the yard for over a week and were feeding first cut silage to the dry cows. They got no water from 24th till 27th and when the water came back only a few of them went for it. Then again, they had no supplements or dry feed. On the animal cruelty issue, in the wild, cattle can and do go without water for days without access to rivers and streams. John Shirley in the farmers journal was cited in a post here a week or so ago about not giving ANY access to water for stock on silage. There were no ill effects noted. Again if stock can get sufficent water from their feed to serve their needs then no water is needed. Its not ideal but not cruelty either

pakalasa

If your agrument is that they need very little water, then it's all the easier to get that little bit to them. Just for the peace of mind of it.
There's no excuse really!

5live

No. My argument is that they dont NEED the water. They may WANT it but not need it. No access to water will not optimise growth or production levels for the feed levels the animals are comsuming but in some cases it is more to ease the farmers peace of mind than the animals wellbeing. Just as optimum access to ration may not be optimum for profit. There are many routes to the same destination as my old lad used say. I just used my experience to offer a different perspective ie after 3 days without water, on first cut silage, very few of my dry cows were thirsty enough to actively seek out a water supply. I wouldnt condone leaving animals without water for no reason or as a punishment but i do question every cent i spend and every minute i spend doing a job to see if there is a better way

irishh_bob

ihatetractors wrote: »

If it is true he should have the stock taken off him!, number one priority on any farm should be your safety/welfare and your stocks.... If you can't do the veeeery basics you should take a good look at your self :mad:

dont be so self righteous and judgemental , we were dealing with exceptional circumstances this past few weeks

whelan1

i am sure under the good farming practice of the sfp that all farmers are obliged to have good clean running water and feed with cattle at all times

irishh_bob

whelan1 wrote: »

i am sure under the good farming practice of the sfp that all farmers are obliged to have good clean running water and feed with cattle at all times

ever heard of force majeure

Bizzum

On a slightly related topic:
Did anybody hear of any livestock lost through breaking ice on frozen lakes?
I'v heard of two cases on different lakes, involving cattle in one case and sheep in the other.

BeeDI

irishh_bob wrote: »

ever heard of force majeure

You are correct generally speaking, but two whole weeks without a drop is just not good, and completely unfair on the animals. I'd have no qualms going a few days in hard weather if I had no alternative, but two weeks is way over the top.

5live

whelan1 wrote: »

i am sure under the good farming practice of the sfp that all farmers are obliged to have good clean running water and feed with cattle at all times

Even drying off milking cows? I posted this question a while back and a lot of replies favoured restriction of water to aid drying off

whelan1

different folks different strokes... i would NOT let my stock go one day without water , but if you can sleep easy by not giving them water , so be it

MIKEKC

the al kid wrote: »

I would find this hard to believe too.Didnt think beet pulp was readily available with the demise of the sugar beet industry in this country-so presumably would have to be imported.

Al

Find it hard to believe anyone would feed pulp without water. Cattle fed pit silage only will drink very little water, I found after four days they barely touched it, disappointing after rigging up tanks and drawing water, just withdraw meal and youll have no problem

dealerman

a man in co clare lost 12 blks he was feeding them meal let them down to stream to drink water and 12 out of15 drank too much cold water and died thats tough

theroad

Here's a rough guess: dry cow on a silage maintenance diet eats around 11kg DM per day, pit silage is about 20% dry matter, which means she's taking in 55kg of silage, of which 44kg is water. That's 44 litres.

A quick google gives a dry cow's water requirement in winter at around 30 to 40 litres per day. So, on pit silage she will be fine without water for a while. It's a different story if she's eating baled silage, or meal or maize because their DM % is higher.

red bull

To those who were critical I had veterinary advice that if animals were not being fed meals and if silage had high moisture content it would not be a problem for up to a fortnight provided cows were not near calving date.
Got water running today and there was absolutely no rush to the troughs, speaks for itself ?:)

8k2q1gfcz9s5d4

babybrian wrote: »

I dont know how any farmer cant get water to his/her cattle everyday, its 2010 we all have tractors, slurry tanks, buckets, barrels and if you dont, borrow 1 :mad:.. I think its pure laziness and almost bordering on animal cruelty.. small bit of cop-on needed plus I wouldnt have too much sympathy for that farmer if he did lose cattle, sympathy for the cattle alright....

Kinda hard to draw water to cattle when every lake/river/drain in the locality is totally frozen though. our local river, the river suck in roscommon froze over. We only have one tap working in out yard, the main supply to our sheads are still frozen. taking hours to give water to around 60 cattle every day, with a single hose pipe!

irishh_bob

BeeDI wrote: »

You are correct generally speaking, but two whole weeks without a drop is just not good, and completely unfair on the animals. I'd have no qualms going a few days in hard weather if I had no alternative, but two weeks is way over the top.

the brother has 22 weanling fresian heifers outside in a paddock although they have an ol stone building for shelter and eat out of a ring feeder in a courtyard type setting

anyway , he stopped giving them meal when the frost put an end to the water trough and began feeding them the wettest bales around the place , he also put a galvanised container ( 50 gallons ) along the ditch and piped water direct from the pumphouse ( next field over ) to them each day , just litterally filled it , funny thing was , they never touched the water for over a week , when he ( or i ) went out each morning , we had to break the ice ( often 3 inches ) with a crow bar but the water was there every morning , never had to re - fill the trough , i dont know whether it was a case of the water being too cold for their liking or the fact that the silage they were getting was wet but they werent gasping for the stuff by any means

sh1tstirrer

theroad wrote: »

Here's a rough guess: dry cow on a silage maintenance diet eats around 11kg DM per day, pit silage is about 20% dry matter, which means she's taking in 55kg of silage, of which 44kg is water. That's 44 litres.

A quick google gives a dry cow's water requirement in winter at around 30 to 40 litres per day. So, on pit silage she will be fine without water for a while. It's a different story if she's eating baled silage, or meal or maize because their DM % is higher.

+1 when they are getting silage with an average moisture content and are not getting meals they will do fine without water. No matter how many times you explain this you will still get over reaction from some people on here just like last years similar thread.

MfMan

Bizzum wrote: »

On a slightly related topic:
Did anybody hear of any livestock lost through breaking ice on frozen lakes?
I'v heard of two cases on different lakes, involving cattle in one case and sheep in the other.

Yes, there was a case between Tuam and Moylough where cows broke out (AFAIK), ventured out onto a frozen lake which cracked under them; 12 in all were lost I think. Very upsetting incident. I know the people involved and they're not careless.

whelan1

Jalen Bitter Flamingo wrote: »

Kinda hard to draw water to cattle when every lake/river/drain in the locality is totally frozen though. our local river, the river suck in roscommon froze over. We only have one tap working in out yard, the main supply to our sheads are still frozen. taking hours to give water to around 60 cattle every day, with a single hose pipe!

i have been using a single hosepipe to do 250 cattle:) everyday

LostCovey

red bull wrote: »

To those who were critical I had veterinary advice that if animals were not being fed meals and if silage had high moisture content it would not be a problem for up to a fortnight provided cows were not near calving date.
Got water running today and there was absolutely no rush to the troughs, speaks for itself ?:)

Yeah red bull, that's great news, I am delighted for you, but you actually said it was baled silage.

If it is silage with a high moisture content that's a different story entirely.

Bit strange to get the veterinary advice after the thaw, just to prove you were right, and to best the lads on the internet. Who thought you were talking about baled silage.

Would you not have been safer asking James Herriot while you were in the situation, just to be on the safe side?

LostCovey

reilig

whelan1 wrote: »

i have been using a single hosepipe to do 250 cattle:) everyday

I've been bring water to 100 cattle using barrels and the transport box. Filling the 40 gallon barrels with the bucket and emptying them with the bucket into the trough. Takes 5 minutes to fill the barrels and 10 mins to empty them. I'm getting it out of a small pond that I had to cut 6 inches of ice out of with the chainsaw. It was like one of those movie scenes where they are fishing through the little hole in the ice . Water still not back so I'll be doing the same again. Cattle are getting no ration and are on the wettest silage that I have and they're drinking between 2 and 3 gallons each per day. The cows that are sucking calves are drinking 4 to 6 gallons each.

I met my farm adviser in town today who told me that he has a client about 20 miles from here who lost 5 bullocks on christmas eve when he let them out to drink at a river after 5 days without water. They has been getting some type of nuts ad lib and when the got the water, they just swelled up and there was no saving them. Said that the farmer was horrified and it was just a case of human error.

Usersname

bbam wrote: »

Three or four days is a long long time....
Ours are on second cut round bales and 1kg beef nuts, they were mad to drink every single day without exception, couldn't imagine leaving them a few days no matter how tough a job getting water to them is..

Beef nuts? You are feeding beef nuts to cows? Please tell me they are not made from beef!

Bizzum

It's only beef FLAVOUR.
Cattle get bored with cheese and onion, salt and vinegar, and prawn coctail..........

irishh_bob

reilig wrote: »

I've been bring water to 100 cattle using barrels and the transport box. Filling the 40 gallon barrels with the bucket and emptying them with the bucket into the trough. Takes 5 minutes to fill the barrels and 10 mins to empty them. I'm getting it out of a small pond that I had to cut 6 inches of ice out of with the chainsaw. It was like one of those movie scenes where they are fishing through the little hole in the ice . Water still not back so I'll be doing the same again. Cattle are getting no ration and are on the wettest silage that I have and they're drinking between 2 and 3 gallons each per day. The cows that are sucking calves are drinking 4 to 6 gallons each.

I met my farm adviser in town today who told me that he has a client about 20 miles from here who lost 5 bullocks on christmas eve when he let them out to drink at a river after 5 days without water. They has been getting some type of nuts ad lib and when the got the water, they just swelled up and there was no saving them. Said that the farmer was horrified and it was just a case of human error.

its extrordinary the cost that the recent arctic spell brought upon farmers , businessmen etc , the country over

Muckit

Lostcovey you are gas! Just because Redbull got in there before you with a level-headed unemotional response to the question of whether or not cattle require water :rolleyes:

I'd also be of the opinion that cattle on high moisture silage can survive without harm for the length of the 'freeze' that we get in this country. That's not to say, like 5live said, that they won't drink if offered. I had calculated a figure of around 4gallons/cow/day if given water.

Not that I would believe or do everything i'd hear in IFJ, but all alot of 'better' farmers were doing was runnin a hose on top of silage in a diet feeder.

As for making the assertion that clamp always has higher MC than bales, i wouldn't agree. Some of the clamps made EARLY this year especially would have a very low MC as compared to say bales of aftergrass made this Sept/Oct.

LostCovey

Bizzum wrote: »

It's only beef FLAVOUR.
Cattle get bored with cheese and onion, salt and vinegar, and prawn coctail..........

God some people are so ignorant.

Feeding them beef would be like, MAD.

LC

LostCovey

Muckit wrote: »

Lostcovey you are gas! Just because Redbull got in there before you with a level-headed unemotional response to the question of whether or not cattle require water :rolleyes:

Is a response to yourself a response?

Any way, I try.....

LC

LostCovey

reilig wrote: »

I've been bring water to 100 cattle using barrels and the transport box. Filling the 40 gallon barrels with the bucket and emptying them with the bucket into the trough. Takes 5 minutes to fill the barrels and 10 mins to empty them. I'm getting it out of a small pond that I had to cut 6 inches of ice out of with the chainsaw. It was like one of those movie scenes where they are fishing through the little hole in the ice . Water still not back so I'll be doing the same again. Cattle are getting no ration and are on the wettest silage that I have and they're drinking between 2 and 3 gallons each per day. The cows that are sucking calves are drinking 4 to 6 gallons each.

I met my farm adviser in town today who told me that he has a client about 20 miles from here who lost 5 bullocks on christmas eve when he let them out to drink at a river after 5 days without water. They has been getting some type of nuts ad lib and when the got the water, they just swelled up and there was no saving them. Said that the farmer was horrified and it was just a case of human error.

Wow, there must be a load of these cases all over the country. None around here that I have heard of yet.

Tough time of the year to get that number of carcasses collected too.

LostCovey

vincenzolorenzo

LostCovey wrote: »

Yeah red bull, that's great news, I am delighted for you, but you actually said it was baled silage.

If it is silage with a high moisture content that's a different story entirely.

LostCovey

Because we all know its impossible to get baled silage with a high M.C. :rolleyes:

LostCovey wrote: »

Bit strange to get the veterinary advice after the thaw, just to prove you were right, and to best the lads on the internet. Who thought you were talking about baled silage.

Would you not have been safer asking James Herriot while you were in the situation, just to be on the safe side?

LostCovey

Calm down for the love of God

Bizzum

LostCovey wrote: »

God some people are so ignorant.


LC

You aiming that at me?

LostCovey

Bizzum wrote: »

You aiming that at me?

No, aiming it at the person who thought beef nuts were made of beef instead of beef flavoured. We are getting 4 tonne of buffalo-flavoured crunch next week for our belted galloways, and I am really hoping no bison were hurt or killed in the manufacture of it. Mind you it was made by William F. Cody & Co Ltd.

LC

LostCovey

vincenzolorenzo wrote: »

Because we all know its impossible to get baled silage with a high M.C. :rolleyes:



Calm down for the love of God

vincenzolorenzo,

Your posts, like your name, remind me of olive oil, and always soothe my soul.

You can't get high moisture baled silage round here except in the turloughs, because the man with the recipe emigrated.

LC

pakalasa

For the record, and for those who may be worried having read this post.
What is the proper way to give water to cattle that have gone without for a few days, those on meal even? (not one myself, BTW)

Without having to seperate the cattle and give them water one by one, can water be giving sprayed over silage?

I know if you just fill the trough, the leaders of the group (head mama cow etc) fill take their fill first.

LostCovey

pakalasa wrote: »

For the record, and for those who may be worried having read this post.
What is the proper way to give water to cattle that have gone without for a few days, those on meal even? (not one myself, BTW)

Without having to seperate the cattle and give them water one by one, can water be giving sprayed over silage?

I know if you just fill the trough, the leaders of the group (head mama cow etc) fill take their fill first.

I'd imagine soaking silage is a safe way to do it at the start, as is any way that you introduce it gradually. I think that most piped sources will be safe anyway, as they won't be able to drink it too fast if they are in groups, compared with animals getting access to streams or lakes.

LC

red bull

First of all I got veterinary advice on day two, secondly my baled silage was much wetter than my pit silage so I fed the bales. Really only trying to be helpfull to other farmers in same situation