Marathon Training

G-Money

Out of curiosity, if I wanted to begin training for a marathon, what would be a good training programme to follow?

I have the Non-Runners Marathon Trainer book but I don't know where it ranks in terms of training programmes for running your first marathon.

I still have a fair bit of weight to lose and IF I decided to run a marathon, the earliest I would be doing so is September or October next year.

Thanks

metamorphosis

Have you looked through the novice/sub 4.30 marathon thread in the training logs? I know a lot of folks here used Hal Hidgeons plans for their first marathon and then changed programmes after. I loosley followed one of his programmes for my first one and it was handy and easy to follow and not overly demanding. Youre following the bridge to 10k arent you?

G-Money

ULstudent wrote: »

Have you looked through the novice/sub 4.30 marathon thread in the training logs? I know a lot of folks here used Hal Hidgeons plans for their first marathon and then changed programmes after. I loosley followed one of his programmes for my first one and it was handy and easy to follow and not overly demanding. Youre following the bridge to 10k arent you?

I was planning on following Bridge to 10K but never actually started it. At the moment I'm just sussing out idea's and so forth and I'll decide what I'm going to do afterwards.

I'll check out that novice thread you mentioned. Thanks.

metamorphosis

Yeah - its a good thread. Look at the one from 2009 too. Great reading.

ger664

Depends on how much running you have done to this point.

Before you consider any marathon plan you should have a really good base, and by that i mean be consistently running 4-5 days a week and been able to run a min of 10-miles/90 Mins at an easy pace without it causing you too much thought.

It would be possible to do in the time frame mentioned but if you are only starting I would aim for Spring 2012 and spend the next 6 months building up mileage (it helps too with weight loss).

RayCun

grandmaster wrote: »

Out of curiosity...

Yeah, I've heard that one before

I was in about the same situation as you last year - just finished the couch25k and ran the Jingle Bells as my first race. I tried to make sure I ran at least three times a week, built up to 5 miles by the end of January, ran 10/11 miles in April, and by the beginning of June my longest run was 13.1 miles. Also around May/June I started following the running pattern set out in the Hal Higdon novice plan - running Tuesday/Wednesday/Thursday and the longer run on Saturday.

There'll be another novice thread starting in early summer. Until then you can just build up the miles, to the point where you can run 10 slow miles at once, and about 20 miles in a week. If you have a better base you'll do better in the marathon, but that should be enough to cope with the training.

claralara

I'm also curious about this...I have (stupidly?!) signed up for Connemara in April. 14 weeks from next Sunday. It'll be my first marathon and I'm not sure what type of plan to follow. My longest run to date is 14 miles about 2 weeks ago and I havent done much since. I ran 2 halfs in 2010 and am attempting Waterford on the 15th January. I'm starting to worry that I really shouldn't have chosen Connemara for the big debut as it seems pretty tough... That said, after the last two weeks, I am ready and prepared to give it 100% because not only do I want to get through the race, I want to enjoy it and still be able to enjoy running after it. Therefire I'm really going to commit to altering the lifestyle and training properly. Can it be done...I hope so!

cwgatling

@ claralara

You will have no trouble, I think. I did Dublin in 06 off a base of <5 mpw using a plan from the runnersworld website. Conn is a great race, the last hill is tough alright but the scenery is brilliant. Just increase the mileage slowly and try to stay injury-free, you will have a blast.

G-Money

Thanks for the replies so far.

I guess I'm interested in upping my mileage so I think that's why a marathon training plan was appealing. Anyway it's just something I'm thinking about at the moment.

RayCun

Hal Higdon has a 12 week spring training programme you could look at.
Or just build up slowly from now to June.
Next week, add 10% to your long run, and 10% to your weekly miles.
Week 2, add 10% to each again.
Week 3, go back to where you are now, as a rest week.
... and keep that 3 week cycle going, with some races thrown in along the way.

G-Money

Cheers.

Am a bit under the weather at the moment. Have picked up a cold that I'm trying to shake off and it's leaving me feeling very tired, so the resumption of training is postponed a bit.

8ofSpades

whatever plan you decide to follow build up your miles slowly.

I fractured a metatarsal during my DCM 2010 build up on August 5th.
I didn't know it was fractured and stupidly tried to "run it off" TWICE on 10th & 24th August. Thought it was just some muscle issue.

Between the injury and the snow I haven't run since then.

Hope to go for my first run since that date tomorrow.

So if you think you will be pushing by slotting into a schedule at this stage then my advise is not to.
Just wait for the next one, it will serve you better in the long run (pardon the pun)

G-Money

Good advice 8.

I fell into a similar trap when I first started out. I was doing a lot of walking to just build up a bit of base fitness and then started on Couch to 5K but was doing too much and ended up tweaking my knee. Turned out to just be some tight muscles according to the physio and I was back up and running (pun intended) within a week or so, so it wasn't too bad, but still frustrating.

claralara

I have a quick question as a complete novice that some of you might be able to advise on.

As I said, I'm doing the marathon in Connemara in 14 weeks and am just trying to put together a training plan to see me through to April 10th and I'm not quite sure what to follow. It'll be my first marathon so I was looking at novice plans but they seem to start off with quite low mileage / short runs eg HH Novice 1 Week 1 is as follows - rest / 3m / 5m pace / 3m / rest / 8m / cross. A couple of weeks ago I was doing on average three 5mile runs and LSR up to 12ish miles and a spinning class a week. It's not that much more than HH advises to start but it is a little.

I'm just wondering should I go back to the shorter distances in the novice plans or should I jump in at week 4 or otherwise?

Gerry Manders

grandmaster wrote: »

Out of curiosity, if I wanted to begin training for a marathon, what would be a good training programme to follow?

I have the Non-Runners Marathon Trainer book but I don't know where it ranks in terms of training programmes for running your first marathon.

I still have a fair bit of weight to lose and IF I decided to run a marathon, the earliest I would be doing so is September or October next year.

Thanks

i started off with 4-5 times a week. increasing the distance when i could. its the best way to create a solid foundation. start off with a mile at each session until you can build from there.

menoscemo

claralara wrote: »

I have a quick question as a complete novice that some of you might be able to advise on.

As I said, I'm doing the marathon in Connemara in 14 weeks and am just trying to put together a training plan to see me through to April 10th and I'm not quite sure what to follow. It'll be my first marathon so I was looking at novice plans but they seem to start off with quite low mileage / short runs eg HH Novice 1 Week 1 is as follows - rest / 3m / 5m pace / 3m / rest / 8m / cross. A couple of weeks ago I was doing on average three 5mile runs and LSR up to 12ish miles and a spinning class a week. It's not that much more than HH advises to start but it is a little.

I'm just wondering should I go back to the shorter distances in the novice plans or should I jump in at week 4 or otherwise?

If you are going to do HH Novice I would follow at least Novice 2 if I were you. You have been training regularly for some time now and have done several halfs so you might even be better a mixture of Novice 2 and Intermediate I.
Also since you have only 14 weeks left and have done 14 miles a few weeks ago, then definately jump into week 4 of whatever plan you choose.

By the way there is a group run in the park tomoorrow (10ish miles) if you're interested...

Gerry Manders

and just to add op. the furthest i ran b4 the marathon was 8 miles. i dont see any point in running any further in training. i figure if you can run solid for 1 hour its all in the head after that. Good Luck

menoscemo

Gerry Manders wrote: »

and just to add op. the furthest i ran b4 the marathon was 8 miles. i dont see any point in running any further in training. i figure if you can run solid for 1 hour its all in the head after that. Good Luck

:rolleyes:

Gerry Manders

menoscemo wrote: »

:rolleyes:

whats that suppose to mean?

menoscemo

Gerry Manders wrote: »

whats that suppose to mean?

You are talking about a Full Marathon? 26.2 miles? Teling the OP he only needs to do 8 miles in training before attempting to run 26.2 miles is seriously ridiculous advice.

Gerry Manders

menoscemo wrote: »

You are talking about a Full Marathon? 26.2 miles? Teling the OP he only needs to do 8 miles in training before attempting to run 26.2 miles is seriously ridiculous advice.

whats so ridiculous about it? thats what i did and i did the marathon in 4 hours. It doesnt make any sense to me to run any further in training. Like i said. If you have the fitness to run solid for an hour you can run a marathon. Its all will power after that.

Everyones training methods are different mate

metamorphosis

Wow - im never listening Daniels again, or Hal, or Richard Neureker again, i might as well stop reading all the logs here as well. Il take your advice !

menoscemo

Gerry Manders wrote: »

whats so ridiculous about it? thats what i did and i did the marathon in 4 hours. It doesnt make any sense to me to run any further in training. Like i said. If you have the fitness to run solid for an hour you can run a marathon. Its all will power after that.

Well you obviously didn't run it to your full potential in that case. Proper training will develop your aerobic capacity, increase your bodies ability to burn fat rather than glyogen, strenghten your legs and much much more, so it is not just in your head, it is in your legs, liver, muscles etc.

I am training for the Conn Ultra at the moment (39.3 miles). By your logic I should be fine with a 12 mile long run?

Gerry Manders wrote: »

Everyones training methods are different mate

Maybe so but your methods are very poor, and certainly not the type of advice to someone who has only recently managed to complete 5k for the first time.

shels4ever

menoscemo wrote: »

You are talking about a Full Marathon? 26.2 miles? Teling the OP he only needs to do 8 miles in training before attempting to run 26.2 miles is seriously ridiculous advice.

+1
its funny you can have threads locked for medical advise , but advise like this would injure someone or worse... Will power can get you around a marathon but propper training will rule out a trip to a and e at the finishs line.

Gerry Manders

menoscemo wrote: »

Well you obviously didn't run it to your full potential in that case. Proper training will develop your aerobic capacity, increase your bodies ability to burn fat rather than glyogen, strenghten your legs and much much more, so it is not just in your head, it is in your legs, liver, muscles etc.

I am training for the Conn Ultra at the moment (39.3 miles). By your logic I should be fine with a 12 mile long run?


Maybe so but your methods are very poor, and certainly not the type of advice to someone who has only recently managed to complete 5k for the first time.

mate, i challenge you to a race and i guarantee i'll woop your ass. the marathon was the first race i entered and i was only running 5 months prior to it<mod edit>

Gerry Manders

i was looken at your distance covered in 2010. you coverd about 300 more miles than me in that year. i would say my standard of fitness is about the same as yours since i trained in swimming and cycling aswel. bring it on mate

menoscemo

Gerry Manders wrote: »

i was looken at your distance covered in 2010. you coverd about 300 more miles than me in that year. i would say my standard of fitness is about the same as yours since i trained in swimming and cycling aswel. bring it on mate

Whoop. I have my first Cyber stalker. I'll most likely be doing the Waterford half on the 15th, but I'm not sure you'll be allowed to stick around this forum that long...


All the same I am not that interested in racing some randomer of the internet that I've never met before. I am more interested in achieving my own goals...

shels4ever

There is a BHAA race next weekend for the 2 of you to get it on first boards head to head of the year.

Gerry Manders

mate you name the place here mate and i'll be there. im in the dublin region

jb-ski

Gerry Manders wrote: »

i was looken at your distance covered in 2010. you coverd about 300 more miles than me in that year. i would say my standard of fitness is about the same as yours since i trained in swimming and cycling aswel. bring it on mate

Are you training for an Ironman or something similiar?

Mr Slow

Gerry Manders wrote: »

i was looken at your distance covered in 2010. you coverd about 300 more miles than me in that year. i would say my standard of fitness is about the same as yours since i trained in swimming and cycling aswel. bring it on mate

This forum is about support and solid advice, you've achieved the virtually impossible and congrats but telling someone they can run a marathon on an 8 mile LSR is lunacy, challenging someone to a duel who disagrees with you is childish.

Mr Slow

To the OP, I found Hal higdon's novice 1 great for someone like myself who had a pretty weak running base, I would in hindsight start the program a few weeks early in order to fit in a few extra 20 milers. Also, subscribe to the Novice thread - it's invaluable.

BrokenMan

Gerry Manders wrote: »

and just to add op. the furthest i ran b4 the marathon was 8 miles. i dont see any point in running any further in training. i figure if you can run solid for 1 hour its all in the head after that. Good Luck

It's only January 2nd and already we have the most ridiculus piece of advice that will be given out all year. Has to be a wind up.

RayCun

Gerry Manders wrote: »

i was looken at your distance covered in 2010. you coverd about 300 more miles than me in that year. i would say my standard of fitness is about the same as yours since i trained in swimming and cycling aswel. bring it on mate

You could be the next Haile Gebreselassie, you might be able to run 4 minute miles in your sleep... but your training advice is for ****.

Woddle

Personal abuse is not tolerated, a warning has been given to Gerry Manders, lets keep things civil.

baza1976

To be fair to Gerry, It is not impossible to complete a marathon on running 8mile LSR. I completed my first marathon running a route where I live that measures 7.5 miles in the car. I would run that route everyday if i could at the time ( i hadn't a clue at the time). I thought that was the way to go and tired the same with connemara the following spring. WHere I ended up up walkin most of the last ten miles as both my IT bands gave out on me:(
Since then I have taken a more conventional approach to training. I bet a lot of people here have done strange things for the first marathon names that spring to mind are Amadeus and HM.
So yes you can complete a marathon on low milage in a resonable time but not to your full potenial. To complete a marathon to full potenial proper training is required.

anymore

baza1976 wrote: »

To be fair to Gerry, It is not impossible to complete a marathon on running 8mile LSR. I completed my first marathon running a route where I live that measures 7.5 miles in the car. I would run that route everyday if i could at the time ( i hadn't a clue at the time). I thought that was the way to go and tired the same with connemara the following spring. WHere I ended up up walkin most of the last ten miles as both my IT bands gave out on me:(
Since then I have taken a more conventional approach to training. I bet a lot of people here have done strange things for the first marathon names that spring to mind are Amadeus and HM.
So yes you can complete a marathon on low milage in a resonable time but not to your full potenial. To complete a marathon to full potenial proper training is required.

To play Devils Advocate here, there is a difference between ' completing a marathon' and ' Running a marathon'.

shels4ever

baza1976 wrote: »

To be fair to Gerry, It is not impossible to complete a marathon on running 8mile LSR. I completed my first marathon running a route where I live that measures 7.5 miles in the car. I would run that route everyday if i could at the time ( i hadn't a clue at the time). I thought that was the way to go and tired the same with connemara the following spring. WHere I ended up up walkin most of the last ten miles as both my IT bands gave out on me:(
Since then I have taken a more conventional approach to training. I bet a lot of people here have done strange things for the first marathon names that spring to mind are Amadeus and HM.
So yes you can complete a marathon on low milage in a resonable time but not to your full potenial. To complete a marathon to full potenial proper training is required.

Possible for sure, but to advise someone who is running 5k that they only need to do 8miles is down right crazy.

paky

covering 8 miles before a marathon is 'bizarre', 'crazy', 'ridiculous' lol

theres nothing crazy about this. a marathon isnt as hard as you think, the people here would like you to think it is.
to prepare for an ironman competition, a beginner would have to cover 18 hours of training a week to finish.
it could take a beginner anywhere between 12-16 hours to finish an ironman, nearly a full weeks training in one day.

the same logic applies to a marathon. you should focus on weekly mileage rather than daily milage and try and cover between 30-40 miles a week!

there is logic to what he is saying.

ecoli

I think people need to give reason other than the its crazy. While the poster may have felt that a 1 hour run is enough to give them the mental toughness and endurance in his case.

Gerry Mander you say that you built up your mileage and ran 4-5 times a week the longest being 8 miles. Did you do this every day? If so then you are getting 30-40 miles a week which probably contributed to your being able to handle running a marathon more so than just your long run. The long run is just one aspect of a well rounded plan. The benefits of it are:

Strengthens the heart - larger stroke volume. This means your heart doesnt need to work as hard to pump blood around the body

Strengthens the leg muscles - endurance is developed. This reduces the risk of injury

Mind Work - mental toughness and coping skills are developed. Knowing you are able to run near to the distance in training is reassurance (needed for some but not all)

Develops fat burning capacity. You are not carrying unnecessary weight again having an impact on injury risk reduction

Increases number and size of mitochondria. These are important for producing energy within the cells to allow the body to perform the task of running (both aerobically and anaerobically

Increases capillary growth into muscle fibers. Producing more power within the muscles to allow you to run more efficiently

Increases aerobic efficiency. The more efficient we are, the faster we can run at paces which are maintainable to us.

Increase in Maximum VO2. This is the amount of oxygen you can consume during exercising at you maximum capacity. The more oxygen a person is able to consume the higher effort they can sustain for longer durations without fatigue

Again the long run is just one element to a good training plan the long run on its own will not make a runner however coupled with consistency, frequency of running, mileage and variety of training you will see great benefits

Hope that clears up a bit where everyone was coming from Gerry Mander

anymore

Before June of last year, I had been doing runs of around 5/6 miles just for my own amusement and I cant say how regularily. I had been doing some hill runs as part of this routine and would say i was in reasonable condition fitness wise. During the June bank holiday, I set out on a 13 mile run - I had done this distance twice the year before - and on the run I decided to add on my usual five mile run if I thought I could manage it at the end of the 13 mile run. So I did a 17 mile run after being used to 5/6 mile runs. Howver I was physically exhausted and on beginning the hill up to my home, I was swept with waves of nausea. The jump from 5/6 to 17 was clearly physically possible but it certainly not very sensible or advisable - the fact that I did the run without water/gels on a hot day made it even more foolhardy., From that point I did use a marathon schedule, adapted for a shorter period, carry water/gels, do warm up exercises and went on to run the Dingle marathon. However I was extremely sick for the last 5 miles of the Dingle run and this included a long rest period at the 25 mile mark. In retrpospect my preparations had not been adequate or been of sufficient duration. My experience in Dublin was much different with a cut of one hour in race time - from 5 hours to 4 hours and an experience that was much more rewarding and less exhausting. Incidentally I did need to get three physio sessions before the Dingle run, so I am assuming that my inadequate preparation was at least in part responsible for the need for treatment. Now I am a convert to using training schedules, even if I dont stick religously to them.

anymore

"Mind Work - mental toughness and coping skills are developed. Knowing you are able to run near to the distance in training is reassurance (needed for some but not all) "

I suspect the importance of this, posted by ecoli, is not emphasised enough - the impact of mental fatigue surprised me on my first few LSR. On several occasions, without either wanting or intending to, I simply came to a stop.

shels4ever

ecoli wrote: »

I think people need to give reason other than the its crazy.

Yep good point, and agree 100% with your post, the main aspect of the origional post that I feel was crazy(maybe too strong a word) was that it may work for one person but the risks of giving it as advise on here to new runners is a bit much.

Its less then 1/3 the distance and your have no idea how you will handle fule, rosk of total glycogen depletion would be greatly increased. As the body hasnt adapted to the longer running.

You can not tell someone to ice an injury as its medical advise but to tell someone that they only need to do 8 miles to run a marathon could have longer lasting problem. It's actually possible to do a marathon without any training also but doesn't mean it should be advised.

K09

Hi,

Hoping to do my first marathon in Limerick in May. Struggling with flu the past week so haven't been able to train yet.
Found this plan on runnersworld.

Has anyone used it? Recommend it?

Thanks!!

RayCun

How long have you been running? How many miles do you do each week? Have you raced shorter distances? Do you have a time target?

BrokenMan

Personally I dont like the look of it. It just gives you two key workouts a week, what do you do the rest of the week? It almost seems like a discussion point in that this is the way some people train for marathons as opposed to a specific plan.

As Ray says though a lot will depend on your current level of fitness, how much prior running you have done and prior racing experience.

K09

RayCun wrote: »

How long have you been running? How many miles do you do each week? Have you raced shorter distances? Do you have a time target?

Have been running just once a week - around 6-8km. Also played one game of soccer a week. And strength training in gym (squats, pull ups, etc) twice a week.
Have not ran a race in years. But plan to run a 10k race at end of month.

RayCun

Then may I introduce you to the Hal Higdon Novice training schedule?
You might also be interested in a read through this mentored thread.

ger664

K09 wrote: »

Hi,

Hoping to do my first marathon in Limerick in May. Struggling with flu the past week so haven't been able to train yet.
Found this plan on runnersworld.

Has anyone used it? Recommend it?

Thanks!!

K09 wrote: »

Have been running just once a week - around 6-8km. Also played one game of soccer a week. And strength training in gym (squats, pull ups, etc) twice a week.
Have not ran a race in years. But plan to run a 10k race at end of month.

IMO I think that this plan would be over zealous and probably lead to injury given the amount of running you are currently doing. Also It only lists the key workouts you probably would have to do 3-4 very easy 40-60 mins runs on the other days.

Use Hals novice plan as pointed out above. Run your long runs as slow as you possible can.

Mr Slow

K09 wrote: »

Have been running just once a week - around 6-8km. Also played one game of soccer a week. And strength training in gym (squats, pull ups, etc) twice a week.
Have not ran a race in years. But plan to run a 10k race at end of month.

You're up against it, 5 months to get from 5 miles in a week to 26.2 in a day. It's not impossible but if you waited for Dublin (End of October), you'd have a lot more time to build up your aerobic base/endurance and a much more enjoyable marathon, plus the novice thread would be in full swing and you'd have the benefit of all the support and advice along the way.

Jewelsmousey

Hey guys - Im the same - Ive signed up to the Edinburgh Marathon having only done 1 half marathon in 2.5hours last year although I was pretty sore afterwards and found it tough. Edinburgh is in May but the hills are supposed to be mental and Im training alone so Im nervous about long runs and mental blocks. I gave up on the Dublin marathon last year because the long runs were killing me mentally. I just got so bored. I'm more determined with an ipod full of stuff now but just need to get over the hurdle I suppose. Training has been tough with the snow so Im back to square one of 3 miles 3 times a week and 7miles this sat hopefully. Signed up to the wicklow half in MArch and a 10k in Timon Park in Feb to try get a series in