46-36 & letape Acte I

seve65

I currently have a compact chainset, 46-36 chain rings, and 12-25 rear cassette. 172.5 mm arms.

I am doing l'etape I next year, never having cycle upwards for that long without downhill breaks.

So was planning to switch to a 46-34 and 12-27.

Do we think that will make a noticeable difference ?

Cheers in advance

niceonetom

I'd certainly recommend 34x27 or 34x28 as your last gear.

I'd also pay attention to gearing at the other end - the descent from the top of the Galibier to Bourg is very, very long (and about as much fun as it is possible to have on a bike) and there are parts of it that are much faster if you can work in a group. With 46x12 you'll be spun out and left behind. 50x11 is good.

seve65

thanks niceoneT

would the front derailleur change up ok from 34 to 50 without any adjustment ?

niceonetom

seve65 wrote: »

thanks niceoneT

would the front derailleur change up ok from 34 to 50 without any adjustment ?

Depends on what derailleur you have. I think a standard ultegra (what I have) has a 15t capacity and will shift fine from 34 to 50. You'll probably need to adjust the derailleur height and fiddle with it a bit. It obviously won't be as snappy as you'd be used to with a 36/46 set-up, but on a mountain stage like that you do little enough front shifting. Once at the bottom of the hill, once at the top, and that's it except, of course, for your final upshift on the last hairpin of l'Alpe so you can give it everything through the village and finish, arms aloft, in glory...

seve65

cheers again, its a Shimano Tiagra Fd 4504, not sure what capicity that has. If its the same as the 4500 (which it looks like) then it should be 16T

2 Wheels Good

Doing the same, I was thinking of doing a similar post in the new year, currently running Ultegra with a 53-39 and 23-11.
Not too keen on spending the money on a triple so trying to figure out next best option.
If I've a 15t gap looks like i may need to swap out both front chainrings to get usable gearing.
34-50 seems a good balance alright. Haven't looked at the gradients properly yet to figure what's needed.

niceonetom

2 Wheels Good wrote: »

Doing the same, I was thinking of doing a similar post in the new year, currently running Ultegra with a 53-39 and 23-11.
Not too keen on spending the money on a triple so trying to figure out next best option.
If I've a 15t gap looks like i may need to swap out both front chainrings to get usable gearing.
34-50 seems a good balance alright. Haven't looked at the gradients properly yet to figure what's needed.

34-50 is the most common ratio on "compact" chainsets. You, 2 wheels, are unlikey to be able to achieve it by just buying chainrings. Your chainset almost certainly has a 130bcd which makes 39 (or 38) as small as you can go. If you want smaller gears than that, you'll need to buy a new chainset with a 110bcd. It would work with your current shifters and derailleurs and be a much simpler conversion than a triple.

I don't know how strong a climber you are, or what your experience of very long climbs is, but unless you are exceptionally good, a compact chainset would be better in the Alps.

You might look at the gradients and think you'll be ok because not much of the course is over 10% but it's not the gradient that's the problem, it's the duration. When you've been climbing for a solid hour 10% can feel like 20%.

lafors

I'll be doing it too. Have a 34-50, 12-27 which I'm hoping should be enough for me. Would like an 11 for the descents as niceonetom suggests but I might just stick with the 12, I LOVE descending so spinning out may just stop me from killing myself

Not planning on changing anything else on the bike except the brakepads before it......likely story

btw have you lads booked any accommodation for it yet?

seve65

lafors wrote: »

I'll be doing it too. Have a 34-50, 12-27 which I'm hoping should be enough for me. Would like an 11 for the descents as niceonetom suggests but I might just stick with the 12, I LOVE descending so spinning out may just stop me from killing myself

Not planning on changing anything else on the bike except the brakepads before it......likely story

btw have you lads booked any accommodation for it yet?

As its my first time, and one of the guys on here recommended them I decided to splash out and go with trail seekers for the week.

I have 1 possible further issue in that I have cantis on my bike, which would probably make me the only bike there without caliper brakes. From what I can work out though I should... be able to get decent braking (if not better) performance out of the cantis. If I had to swap to calipers I would need long-reach which would cut the choice right down and I am not sure the holes in my frame are a suitable fit.

2 Wheels Good

niceonetom wrote: »

34-50 is the most common ratio on "compact" chainsets. You, 2 wheels, are unlikey to be able to achieve it by just buying chainrings. Your chainset almost certainly has a 130bcd which makes 39 (or 38) as small as you can go. If you want smaller gears than that, you'll need to buy a new chainset with a 110bcd. It would work with your current shifters and derailleurs and be a much simpler conversion than a triple.

I don't know how strong a climber you are, or what your experience of very long climbs is, but unless you are exceptionally good, a compact chainset would be better in the Alps.

You might look at the gradients and think you'll be ok because not much of the course is over 10% but it's not the gradient that's the problem, it's the duration. When you've been climbing for a solid hour 10% can feel like 20%.

Oh well, there goes that idea
I've done a few days in the southern alps, have cycled Mont Ventoux from 2 sides so have an idea what's ahead. Did it on a rental with a triple. Spent a lot of time on the small ring! Compact may be the best bet (Unless the next 6 months training goes extra well!)
Judging by the profile on Climbbybike.com Galibier is similar enough to Mont Ventoux.

2 Wheels Good

lafors wrote: »

I'll be doing it too. Have a 34-50, 12-27 which I'm hoping should be enough for me. Would like an 11 for the descents as niceonetom suggests but I might just stick with the 12, I LOVE descending so spinning out may just stop me from killing myself

Not planning on changing anything else on the bike except the brakepads before it......likely story

btw have you lads booked any accommodation for it yet?

Haven't booked anything yet, have been looking but nothing yet.
Have looked at the package deals but can't justify the $$$.
Thinking of driving via the UK and making a proper trip of it!
Anyone found anywhere reasonable? (Would it be worth opening a separate thread for the Etape?)

seve65

ready to cycle even slower ! :

niceonetom

seve65 wrote: »

ready to cycle at a more efficient cadence ! :

FYP

2 Wheels Good

niceonetom wrote: »

34-50 is the most common ratio on "compact" chainsets. You, 2 wheels, are unlikey to be able to achieve it by just buying chainrings. Your chainset almost certainly has a 130bcd which makes 39 (or 38) as small as you can go. If you want smaller gears than that, you'll need to buy a new chainset with a 110bcd. It would work with your current shifters and derailleurs and be a much simpler conversion than a triple.

I don't know how strong a climber you are, or what your experience of very long climbs is, but unless you are exceptionally good, a compact chainset would be better in the Alps.

You might look at the gradients and think you'll be ok because not much of the course is over 10% but it's not the gradient that's the problem, it's the duration. When you've been climbing for a solid hour 10% can feel like 20%.

Thinking of trying a 11-28 on the back for now and see how the legs are by the summer.
If I train hard enough 39-28 should be enough, although starting to get flashbacks from Ventoux now so maybe not

seve65

34 chainring duly installed instead of the 36, quite a difference in the quality of the teeth (old ring was new last may), no adjustments to the derailleur made. Amazing. Change up isnt the smoothest so I might tinker with it after I have had a few rides.

100Suns

2 Wheels Good wrote: »

If I train hard enough 39-28 should be enough, although starting to get flashbacks from Ventoux now so maybe not

Don't under-estimate Telegraph/Galibier. Telegraph softens you up for Galibier which is relentless. Don't look up for the last 4k of Glaibier or the first 3 bends of dHuez! IMO you can never have enough gears on these climbs. I'd strongly recommend a 34 or a 36. I swapped out the 39 for a 36 (an FSA chainring) for Marmotte last year and was glad I did. I had enough room on the Campag derailleur to keep the 53 Q ring which was nice on the descents.

Good luck with it and let us know how you get on.

2 Wheels Good

100Suns wrote: »

Don't under-estimate Telegraph/Galibier. Telegraph softens you up for Galibier which is relentless. Don't look up for the last 4k of Glaibier or the first 3 bends of dHuez! IMO you can never have enough gears on these climbs. I'd strongly recommend a 34 or a 36. I swapped out the 39 for a 36 (an FSA chainring) for Marmotte last year and was glad I did. I had enough room on the Campag derailleur to keep the 53 Q ring which was nice on the descents.

Good luck with it and let us know how you get on.

Cheers, might see if I can do the same (I'm on Ultegra)

Tree Scape

Anyone got a route map which shows elevations/gradients..?

niceonetom

@2 Wheels Good - I'd heartily second 100Suns' advice about the small ring. I'm pretty confident that, even with a huge cassette, you'd regret that 39 over there.

Tree Scape wrote: »

Anyone got a route map which shows elevations/gradients..?

That should be very googlable. If people haven't mapped out the actual etape route you can definitely find elevation profiles of the Marmotte - the etape is the same route except shorter, starting at the base of the Telegraph instead of in Bourg.

2 Wheels Good

Tree Scape wrote: »

Anyone got a route map which shows elevations/gradients..?

From Climbbybike.com
Think I have the right sides posted

Telegraph
[IMG]http://www.climbbybike.com/profile/Col-du-Télégraphe-St-Michel-de-Maurienne-profile.jpg[/IMG]

Galibier


Alpe d'Huez

Tree Scape

Holy Crap....serious gradients....:eek:

100Suns

Tree Scape wrote: »

Holy Crap....serious gradients....:eek:

It looks a lot worse on tarmac than it does on paper:D

seve65

Looks like the ride up the galibier is missing out some of that 10% gradient at the top (2535 to 2646m), see below peaking at 2556m.

100Suns

There is a winter pass through the peak. The last kilo or so zig zags up a sheer face which can be impassible for a good deal of the year. I would hope they are taking the Etape over the top??

seve65

I would hope so too (assuming I get that far !), but its hardly likely to be a misprint is it

seve65

maybe it is, the tdf site has it at that altitude too.
http://www.letour.fr/2011/TDF/COURSE/us/1900/etape_par_etape.html

100Suns

The Tour goes over the top. Enjoy;)

paddymacsporran

The total meters climbed is only the designated climbs. Basically double it and you'll be about right...

+1 for the 34/27, I did Ventoux in 34/25 and would have killed for a 27 during the etape in 2009......If I had the energy that is!!!

Morrisseeee

You can 'cycle' every km of it on Goooogle maps, it looks a fantastic route (I would love to be doing it), pity you'll be 'flat out', 'head down' concentrating on making that next km and not taking in the scenery !!
Here's a pic from the top, which might be snowed off, below you can see the (house) entrance to the tunnel. Good luck with it .

seve65

Very interesting article on nutrition for endurance cycling, although I was kinda hoping for some snappy food tips,
http://www.pponline.co.uk/encyc/sports-nutrition-advice-for-endurance-cyclists-31171
as I am beginning to worry about the task ahead having been out for 120k today up to Banteer and back from Glanmire, and feeling weak on some very small slopes after about 60k.

seve65

niceonetom wrote: »

I'd certainly recommend 34x27 or 34x28 as your last gear.

I'd also pay attention to gearing at the other end - the descent from the top of the Galibier to Bourg is very, very long (and about as much fun as it is possible to have on a bike) and there are parts of it that are much faster if you can work in a group. With 46x12 you'll be spun out and left behind. 50x11 is good.

I have got the 34 ring on the front now and thats fine, and will switch the 48 ring to 50, but no rush on that.

I am planning to get an 11-28 cassette (SLX HG80 11-12-13-14-16-18-21-24-28) for the back, which although outside Shimanos recommendations for a GS or SS rear derailleur which I have now (105-5604) it seems concensus is it should work ? I am battling some knee/hip niggles, so spent this week swimming not cycling, and want more spinning options when I hit the hills again. Another option is Shimano Ultegra CS-6500 12-27 ?

blorg

11-28 should be fine but it depends on the bike. On most of my bikes it works OK with 50-34 and short cage RD but on one the chain was too slack in small-small even with 12-27. It should certainly work with a long cage RD. It is a good choice for this sort of event but excessively gappy for general use. I really appreciated the 34-28 on the Marmotte but 12-27 is much better for lesser efforts.

lafors

I went to a 12-27 from a 12-25 but after realising the 12 ain't going to cut it on the decents in the alps after some nice decending here and I may as well try a 28 while I'm at it so I've ordered an 11-28 (HG80). It should work with my compact 34-50, been reading up on reviews etc and they seem to say I should be OK.

Sure its cheap enough anyway....before I added a load of other things while browsing wiggle :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

blorg

12 is more than enough on Alpine descents; the main limiting factor is your cornering skill, followed by tuck and, on these events, ability to safely overtake other riders. Gearing does not come into it.

The only place where it makes any odds on the Marmotte course is the straight, very shallow (2%) descent off the Lauteret, and even there it is not a big deal and 12 is OK.

Concern yourself only with the other end. I used an 11-28 because I had one and wanted the 28... 12-28 would be preferable.

seve65

blorg wrote: »

11-28 should be fine but it depends on the bike. On most of my bikes it works OK with 50-34 and short cage RD but on one the chain was too slack in small-small even with 12-27. It should certainly work with a long cage RD. It is a good choice for this sort of event but excessively gappy for general use. I really appreciated the 34-28 on the Marmotte but 12-27 is much better for lesser efforts.

cheers blorg and lafors for the good feedback. will defo give 11-28 a whirl, i try not to use the small-small combo anyway. more of a concern if the rear der. rubs on the 28, hopefully if it does some adjustments will sort that out.

seve65

I have now swapped my shimano CS-HG50 12-25 cassette for a CS-HG80 11-28. gear changes are fine

But there is now a rumble in the 11, 12 and 13 teeth sprockets, most pronounced when combined with the 48 tooth front chainring (34 tooth chain ring is relatively new)

I havent checked the chain for wear, but was hoping switching to a new chain might sort the issue. I was planning sooner or later to upgrade the 48 teeth front ring to 50 teeth so might as well do that now.

Anybody else experience of this kind of 'rumbling' ?

2 Wheels Good

How's the training going?
If anyone needs motivation for what's ahead
LA from 2001
Looks steeper every time i watch it

seve65

trainings going ok. was down with a few of the gang going with Trail seekers And Sean O'leary on the weekend. Had a great time and tried a few climbs.

http://ridewithgps.com/routes/353687
http://ridewithgps.com/routes/353669
http://ridewithgps.com/routes/353658

Looking forward to the Etape big time now !

still got ongoing hip/bum pain probably from IBS, as knees were initially affected as well. Blame it on the dreaded Mullaganish mast climb ! Found some stretches that help - the pigeon pose. So trying to hold myself back a bit and spinning the gears faster instead. Also lowered the saddle a touch.

Rumble on the 11,12 and 13 rings is not significant when riding really, so will ignore for now. Got some clipless pedals on the bike now which make a difference. Also just put a 50 chain ring on the front tonight (dont think I actually need it as the 48-11 gives me more than enough oomph, still having bought it, it had to go on). Also added a new chain last night as the old one was past the 12 and 1/8 inch rule ! Gear cable is a bit frayed now though...sloppy workman (myself!)...so might replace that along with the brake cables which are also bit squashed in places...yet more stuff, it never stops. Maybe a couple of brake blocks, 2 tyres and 2 inners before the Letape and that will be it. Of course a new cycling top or maybe bib shorts.....!

seve65

2 Wheels Good wrote: »

If anyone needs motivation for what's ahead LA from 2001

That clips inspirational and really gets me going, but I know it shouldnt given all the stuff around Armstrong and his less than effervescent self.

On a different note, I have been cycling up and down the sides of a small valley between upper glanmire and whites cross, which gives some short steep climbing and descending practice.:D

Plastik

Nice little alpine hairpin there for you to practice on also

ROK ON

Was that ye in Kenmare this weekend.
I passed a big group of cyclists getting fed on Molls Gap on Saturday afternoon. Also passed a group Sunday around noon as I was heading back to Kenmare from the Healy Pass.

seve65

ROK ON wrote: »

Was that ye in Kenmare this weekend.
I passed a big group of cyclists getting fed on Molls Gap on Saturday afternoon. Also passed a group Sunday around noon as I was heading back to Kenmare from the Healy Pass.

sounds about right. Healys Pass is fantastic isnt it ! First time for me.

ROK ON

seve65 wrote: »

sounds about right. Healys Pass is fantastic isnt it ! First time for me.

On a phone so can't read your ridewithgps files. Where else did ye do?
Borlin?
Priest Leap?
Ballaghasheen/Ballaghbeama?

2 Wheels Good

seve65 wrote: »

trainings going ok. was down with a few of the gang going with Trail seekers And Sean O'leary on the weekend. Had a great time and tried a few climbs.

http://ridewithgps.com/routes/353687
http://ridewithgps.com/routes/353669
http://ridewithgps.com/routes/353658

Looking forward to the Etape big time now !

still got ongoing hip/bum pain probably from IBS, as knees were initially affected as well. Blame it on the dreaded Mullaganish mast climb ! Found some stretches that help - the pigeon pose. So trying to hold myself back a bit and spinning the gears faster instead. Also lowered the saddle a touch.

Rumble on the 11,12 and 13 rings is not significant when riding really, so will ignore for now. Got some clipless pedals on the bike now which make a difference. Also just put a 50 chain ring on the front tonight (dont think I actually need it as the 48-11 gives me more than enough oomph, still having bought it, it had to go on). Also added a new chain last night as the old one was past the 12 and 1/8 inch rule ! Gear cable is a bit frayed now though...sloppy workman (myself!)...so might replace that along with the brake cables which are also bit squashed in places...yet more stuff, it never stops. Maybe a couple of brake blocks, 2 tyres and 2 inners before the Letape and that will be it. Of course a new cycling top or maybe bib shorts.....!

Looks like a nice couple of spins, planning on doing the Kenmare loop alright.

lafors

2 Wheels Good wrote: »

How's the training going?
If anyone needs motivation for what's ahead
LA from 2001
Looks steeper every time i watch it

Not good, back home from Israel though which is good
but still having lower back pain from my injury last July so got an appointment in the orthopaedic dept in the mater to get it sorted once and for all. Hopefully only a cortizone injection and not surgery.

Going out after lunch to do reps of Howth head, hail rain or snow. Need to see how I'm holding up. Sitting seems fine but standing hurts and I'll need to be able to climb standing to alternate positions when climbing to avoid tiring the legs out.

My plan:
Can't commute to work on the bike, too far, so I've the turbo set up again for 1hr sessions when I get home from work. Then will be out every day I'm off....usually 3-4 days a week thanks to shift work Just need to keep the young lad in creche germ infection centre, he's off sick again this week which stops all cycling! :rolleyes:

seve65

for anybody interested, link to the time schedule for the etape with the eliminations:

http://www.letapedutour.com/EDT1/2011/ETDT/presentation/us/itineraire.htm

2 Wheels Good

seve65 wrote: »

for anybody interested, link to the time schedule for the etape with the eliminations:

http://www.letapedutour.com/EDT1/2011/ETDT/presentation/us/itineraire.htm

Thanks, am I reading it right, the first time is the expected time of the leaders, 2nd time is when they stop people continuing?

seve65

2 Wheels Good wrote: »

Thanks, am I reading it right, the first time is the expected time of the leaders, 2nd time is when they stop people continuing?

I think so

2 Wheels Good

Might not be as bad as it looks, will try and guesstimate the rolling times over the weekend. Splitting it into 2 really, as long as we make it to the top of the Galibier that's part 1 over, then it's just a rest with a simple 14k spin up the Alpe to finish

lafors

That's quite a bit of a difference, over 5hrs at the finish line.
If you think about it, this isn't a sportive really so you shouldn't have too many people doing it without having done quite a bit of training so 5 hrs should do it.
It gives you nearly 8hrs to complete a 109km course....ok so it does include a few hills but it still should be enough

seve65

Nice bit of hill repeat training today !

http://ridewithgps.com/trips/219065