The Irishman (Scorsese, De Niro, Pesci and Pacino)

py2006

Hmmm, is this only coming to Netflix USA?

It's odd its not advertised on Netflix at mo.

Agent Coulson

py2006 wrote: »

Hmmm, is this only coming to Netflix USA?

It's odd its not advertised on Netflix at mo.

Its coming to all Netflix's on Wednesday.

Mr Regal

fin12 wrote: »

I found that part really strange aswell. The fact he had driven off makes it a bit more believable but surely the son would have lots of questions and he would be one of the main suspects having been one of the last people with him.

Chuckie O Brien had fallen out with Hoffa and laid his loyalties to the new Teamsters Boss Frank Fitzsimons. He was a Judas. Haven't seen the movie yet but have read the book and a book on Hoffa and watched numerous documentaries.

J Mysterio

Saw this yesterday. Found it largely dissapointing and unengaging. Thought De Niro's performance was quite flat and his portayal of Sheeran quite unsympathetic.

Neither the actors performance, the direction nor the plot quite gripped me. Pacino was decent as Hoffa. The main thing the film got right for me was subtleties of being 'ok' with the mob - Pesci was alright in this regard too.

I don't like the 'deaging' CGI and it did detract from the film for me. I was constantly looking at De Niro and kept thinking 'that's an old man pretending to be a younger man', it just didnt work. Just his posture and movement and face shape is that of an old man, you can't get away from it. The worst part was when he beat the grocer/ shop owner for pushing his daughter - there was just no force, impact or believability in that. Sudden, shocking violence is a hallmark of Scorcese for me, but it just didnt work.

I was surprised to find myself quite bored watching it.

J Mysterio

metaoblivia wrote: »

Great performances, interesting plot line, but the length and pacing just kills it. The film could easily stand to lose an hour. It becomes especially torturous

after Hoffa has been killed

. I walked out with about 15 minutes left as it was clear the movie was over, I was tired and didn't care.

Completely relate to this. I was ready to go at that point and almost did. May as well have tbh.

dougm1970

will this be on at midnight tonight on netflix ?

J Mysterio

I'm actually most annoyed at some review of this I saw which insisted I needed to watch it in the cinema. Netflix would be fine for it.

Agent Coulson

dougm1970 wrote: »

will this be on at midnight tonight on netflix ?

More likely 8am tomorrow morning.

dougm1970

Agent Coulson wrote: »

More likely 8am tomorrow morning.

ah ****e . thanks ...went to butchers for his best burgers and a few cans ready for midnight

saintsaltynuts

dougm1970 wrote: »

ah ****e . thanks ...went to butchers for his best burgers and a few cans ready for midnight

I feel your sorrow brother. Watch it tomorrow night it's very good.

Agent Coulson

dougm1970 wrote: »

ah ****e . thanks ...went to butchers for his best burgers and a few cans ready for midnight

Netflix usually release stuff at midnight west coast of America time where they are based.

PropJoe10

Wonderful movie. Superb performances and writing. Anyone looking for the next Goodfellas should probably avoid - it's much more laid back and subtle than Goodfellas, but I absolutely loved it. Modern day classic!

fin12

Mr Regal wrote: »

Chuckie O Brien had fallen out with Hoffa and laid his loyalties to the new Teamsters Boss Frank Fitzsimons. He was a Judas. Haven't seen the movie yet but have read the book and a book on Hoffa and watched numerous documentaries.

But was he his son (adopted)?

Goodshape

fin12 wrote: »

But was he his son (adopted)?

From what I've read since seeing the film, I think it was a bit of father/son type relationship but nothing official.

Also

there's no solid known facts about Hoffa's death and this film plays into that. Bit of a (possibly/probably) unreliable narrator thing going on. This is Frank Sheeran's version of those events, which match some of the evidence but are also widely contested. Nobody really knows for sure what happened to Hoffa and Chuckie O'Brien swears he wasn't involved – but Sheeran said he was, so that's what we see in this film of his book.

branie2

I hope you all enjoy it on Netflix

dougm1970

thought it was good...long time went quick and the story was told right to the very end.
wasnt gone on al pacino though...his movements were very elderly all the way through the time line..i found myself too distracted by it.....same but nowhere near as much with deniro, like the shopkeeper scene (dont think i need to add spoiler saying that)
saying that...the de-aging of the faces was very impressive.
very impressed with pesci after hearing his role was understated..thought he was excellent.
and stephen graham was born for those types of roles, his magnetism shines through the screen.

Agricola

Not sure what to make of it. Enjoyed it as it was in some ways classic Scorsese, the voice over, the memorable characters, the presence of so many heavy hitting actors, the tension ratcheting up in certain scenes.......... but in other ways it fell flat.

Certainly it was needlessly long and as another poster said, despite the length of time with these characters, I didn't feel emotionally invested in them and so the finale didnt have the impact it really should have.

The de-aging wasn't that distracting. In close up scenes when the characters were seated you wouldn't notice it, which is the aim of the game. Where it was let down was the characters havent got the bodies or agility of 40/50 year olds, so the face doesn't match the movements for the most part.

Worth watching but preferably on Netflix where you can hit pause!

Mr Regal

fin12 wrote: »

But was he his son (adopted)?

Foster son.
When Hoffa went to prison he took the side of Teamster Boss Frank Fitzsimmons for his leadership quest and continued that support when Hoffa was released.
Its not concrete if he knew Jimmy was getting his house painted or not, but I'd say he did.

piplip87

A fantastic watch. I. Gutted I didn't get to the cinema to see this. Although I did watch it in two parts which unfortunately is the joy of children in the house.

I think the way it was ties in with Kennedy, Nixon and Kosovo really gave it a solid timeline.

I have read some of the reviews and jaysus anybody who has given this a 1* review has given Avengers 10*....

Here is my favourite for the laugh

'Women and Black characters are even more diminished in The Irishman than in Martin Scorsese’s previous gangster films."

chopperbyrne

Just finished watching it. Enjoyed it, but definitely too long, especially the last half hour or so.

Anna Paquin is wasted in this. She's a very talented actress, who is just given nothing.

cian68

chopperbyrne wrote: »

Anna Paquin is wasted in this. She's a very talented actress, who is just given nothing.

Thought the same about Jesse Plemons.

johnny_ultimate

So I fully get the criticism that Paquin is wasted here, and I actually sorta agree! The film is a sausagefest, and the lack of other meaningful female characters does make Paquin’s silent, marginal role even more jarring given her talent and fame.

But, equally, there is an argument to be made that the role needs to be largely silent. Peggy’s quite an important presence in the film, and her lack of dialogue is often piercing. It creates this tangible gap between father and daughter, and allows Scorsese to explore their relationship in a nearly entirely visual way. Paquin is a good enough actor that she can actually pull this off - so despite literally only having a few words, Peggy as a character is still vital to what the film ultimately has to say.

So I’m not completely down with how Paquin’s role is handled, but I do definitely think there’s a clear point being made by keeping her at a distance to both Jimmy and the audience - a small role with a major impact.

Goodshape

I agree with that about Paquin. The fact that it was her – a recognisable face and a good actor – made her stand out. Like a girl in a red dress. As small as the part was in terms of screen time or dialogue, it was huge in terms of overall impact.

Her fleeting glances and silence are actually some of the more memorable instances from the film. A testament to her as an actor and Scorsese as a director that there wasn't really anything more needed.

El Duda

Like I said in my review a few pages back, a lot of Scorsese films (especially the mob ones) feature very strong female roles/performances. It felt a bit like a missing ingredient here, but I guess this story just didn't call for it. Nevertheless, I agree that Paquin does have a strong presence.

Another detail people seem to be glancing over is the De Niro grocery store scene. This is the only occasion she speaks aloud to her Father and it results in horrific violence. It justifies her silence and provides all the context we need.

cian68

El Duda wrote: »

Another detail people seem to be glancing over is the De Niro grocery store scene. This is the only occasion she speaks aloud to her Father and it results in horrific violence. It justifies her silence and provides all the context we need.

I was too busy laughing during that scene while 100 year old De Niro played tough guy

Arghus

That grocery scene was the low point of the movie for me. No matter what de-aging was done to his face, DeNiro's movements and posture was clearly that of a geezer: the violence looked so fake - and having it all as one continuous long shot made it worse!

I enjoyed the film - it is great overall - but the staging of that one scene was terrible!

Dots1982

There are other scenes with issues aswell. When the guy pulls a gun on Hoffa in the courtroom: chuckie springs to attack him in close up. When it switches to a wider shot chuckie is standing back and Hoffa is attacking the gunman.

It’s not much in itself but suggests to me that Scorsese’s directing or the DP’s work was a little more sloppy than normal.

dougm1970

Arghus wrote: »

That grocery scene was the low point of the movie for me. No matter what de-aging was done to his face, DeNiro's movements and posture was clearly that of a geezer: the violence looked so fake - and having it all as one continuous long shot made it worse!

I enjoyed the film - it is great overall - but the staging of that one scene was terrible!

it was....and you make a good point about making it one long tracking shot too...it could have been made look better.

us saying how a scorcese scene could be made better

dougm1970

Dots1982 wrote: »

There are other scenes with issues aswell. When the guy pulls a gun on Hoffa in the courtroom: chuckie springs to attack him in close up. When it switches to a wider shot chuckie is standing back and Hoffa is attacking the gunman.

It’s not much in itself but suggests to me that Scorsese’s directing or the DP’s work was a little more sloppy than normal.

i thought something wasnt right there.
bit like when he jumped on tony pro in the prison scene...hes moving likes hes full of arthritis in every scene / age...and he dived on him like the pazmanian devil cartoon there.

Arghus

dougm1970 wrote: »

i thought something wasnt right there.
bit like when he jumped on tony pro in the prison scene...hes moving likes hes full of arthritis in every scene / age...and he dived on him like the pazmanian devil cartoon there.

I don't want to rag on the movie too much, because, overall I think it is one of the best of the year, but I did notice little bits of sloppiness like that throughout, particularly in the first hour and a half - cuts or edits that didn't quite match or looked rushed. For instance, when we have the flashback of him shooting the Germans I don't think the gunshot sounds and bullet impacts are synced up perfectly - it wasn't a deal breaker, but there was enough to be noticeable, for me. I found that surprising because Scorcese's films are usually very well edited and Thelma Schoonmaker was at the helm for this as well too.

It's obviously a double in a Hoffa wig for that scene in the prison, which I was also a bit surprised by, surprised by its obviousness. I guess you have to expect this, given the age of the actor, but I still found it strange they didn't make the deception more artful.

It's not a particularly violent film, but I thought there was something quite bloodless and artificial to the violence portrayed on screen. It didn't feel real - and the bloodshed in Scorcese films always feels meaty and tough.

For a film that supposedly cost over 150 million to make, I felt that it didn't always look it.