Full Length Amateur Drama Festival Circuit 2011

poteen

Hello All

I know alot of groups are in rehersals at the moment for the circuit 2011. March wont be long coming around. From What i hear, most festivals have their lineup finalised.

So what plays are groups doing? Who is performing where ?

jorg

Well hello again!

Its hard to believe that the circuit will be kicking off again in another 2 months.

We're doing a play called "Tom & Viv"by Michael Hastings about the poet TS Elliot and his first marriage to Vivienne Haigh Wood who turned out to be an embarrassment to Elliot. In the latter years years of the marriage, he had her committed to an mental institution.

We have 7 festivals spanning all 4 provinces which should keep us busy in March!

poteen

I see that the Amateur Drama Council have posted the festival line ups on their website (www.adci.ie)

To my mind the open section looks to be on first glance, a bit weak this year. I cant just put my finger on why that is. Maybe a combination of the plays that are been done, the groups on the road or that alot of the prelim festivals seem to have the same open line up.

The Confined section looks much more competitive on forst glance. There are a few groups there that have all a decent chance of making it to the finals and winning. I think that the fact that the Finals are in The wexford opera house this year has driven groups on. While the venue is hugely oversized for the confined finals and will lack in atmosphere, it is none the less a great venue.

jorg

There's certainly not the same diversity or new plays compared to last year - thats not to say that there won't be strong offerings in there. Its a pity to see duplicate plays cropping up. Brian Friel wins the award this year with 6 different productions on tour including 2 Lughnasas and 2 Cass Maguires!

poteen

It seems like its just the 2 of us commenting on this forum which is odd considering how many peole take part in the circuit!

Your points are well made. Brian Friel is heavily subscribed again. No wonder the performance rights get pulled regular! The loves of Cass... is one of his poorer plays though I think. Also, McDonagh again is overdone.

Do you think the adjudicators will be fed up of the same plays been churned out? More worryingly, will the audience be bored? They need choice and something new. They also shouldnt be underestimated with Festivals should be keeping things fresh.

In the open section there are one or two plays Im looking forward to :

• Kilmeen - A whistle... The last time They did a Murphy Play they won the All Ireland.
• Bradan (your own group) - Tom & Viv. Read the script a while back. Liked it alot.
• Silken- Angels ... Should be another good show from the defending champions.
• KATS - portia Coughlan.. Good Play by a good group who have not just hit it the last couple of years but may be back this year.
• Shoestring - Moonshine. Like the play and they are a group who are in athlone regular

Its interesting to see both Ferns and Gorey in the open section. Ferns won the confined last year with alot of the Gorey crew on board. Will be interesting to see if some Ulster groups can influence Athlone this year.

In the Confined Section:

Kilmuckridge- The Field... They have been qualifying the last few times for finals. Interesting to see how this production will take shape. Will it be similar to the Olympia version??

Droichead Nua - The kings of Kilburn... Good play by a group who have qualified with this play a few years back

Compantas Lir - Loves of Cass.. Two versions of this in the confined. I fancy the more experienced Claregalway to hit it big though

Hard to know who will make the big impact in Confined.

jorg

Can we conclude that apart from our colleagues in Nodramatheatre, not many participants in amateur drama use boards! Its odd alright that with nearly 60 groups and over 300 performances, theres not more discussion.

I'd add a few more to your open list. Nenagh have proven in the past that they do farce well and no doubt Cornmill will do a good job on Beauty Queen. A dark horse could be Prosperous. They haven't been on the full length circuit for a while but have shown good form at the one acts and were unfortunate not to have made the finals last year.

In the confined, I'd add Blue Hat. Again, newcomers to the full length but have done well in the one acts over the years.

Are you touring this year?

observe

Thought I would add another voice to the discussion! Yes, the line up this year seems somewhat safe. Leading the way with innovative plays is Silken Thomas with Angels in America, but given that they produced it when they were in the Confined Section, makes it a somewhat safe choice for them.
Groups choose plays for different reasons, quite often 'safe' plays are chosen as they yield bums on seats - whether an adjudicator has seen it a 100 times, or likes/dislikes it should not be an issue. It is not within the remit of the adjudicator to comment on the play itself. In choosing a well known play, surely it is the responsibility of the group to dust it down and breathe new life into it?
As such all productions need to be marked within the same criteria. To allocate more marks, simply because a play is 'challenging' would be ludicrous. We would end up with lots of poor productions of challenging plays!
I certainly would love to see more challenging work on the circuit, but I think some of the problem lies in the fact that a lot of individuals in groups don't go to see enough professional work. Therefore their frame of reference is quite limited.
On another note, it would appear that 'blacking up' actors seems to be aceptable, given some of the circuit shows last year. Given the multi cultural society we live in, I think this shouldn't be tolerated. If you can't source a black actor then you can't cast the play!
Anyway, I have no doubt the circuit will provide the usually amount of both on and off stage drama! Break a leg to all!

David Barrett

Hi All,
Just to let you know that after many years of not competing on the circuit,
we are back this year and competing in 5 of the preliminary festivals with a view to qualifying for the Athlone finals. We would have taken two more but
being off the circuit for so long, we found it difficult to get slots in the programmes of the various festivals.

We are in the Open section and we are campaigning "Someone who'll watch over me" by frank McGuinness.

We are in rehearsal at present with a home run planned for Feb 25/26 at the Naval Base where we are based.

Our web site is worth a visit should you wish to learn more about us and our somewhat unique history.

David

brightspark

Unfortunately Thurles aren't able to travel the circuit this year, but we are presenting The Beauty Queen of Leenane for our home audiences.

Looking forward to being able to relax and enjoy the Holycross (Tipperay) festival though.

poteen

Great to see some additional posts to the topic!

Agree with some of What 'Observe' said for sure. Silken doing Angels in America again is a bit safe by them although they are not the only group doing this. I also see that a couple of groups in the confined section are churning out a previous production again and in particular Droichead Nua with 'The Kings of The Kilburn Highyway' which they performed with great success a couple of years back .
Where I disagree to a point is in relation to challenging works etc etc. I think that adjudicators will acknowledge to a point, a group that takes on a brave choice. While they ant meant to mark on the play content / title etc etc , I think it gets factored into the marking scheme somewhere along the line in an unofficial manner. I think for the sake of the future of the festivals and their survival, incentives to perform new works by groups, need to be there.

'Blacking up' of actors is a fair point I guess though I think that for rural groups, this wouldnt be always possible.

Also, will a comedy / farce ever win an All Ireland ?

Great to hear that ye are back on the road again David. Another strong group in the Open section from Cork. Best of luck with it. The standard is high there so get to the pace as quick as you can.

Sorry To hear that thurles aint back on the circuit this year. A good group that maybe will benifit from a year out to recharge.

Any early bets guys on the Open and Confined finalists ??

observe

Poteen, You are absolutely right in saying that new work needs to be produced on the circuit to keep it engaging. Some groups seem to miss this point - reproducing work that they have previously done just seems lazy, but I imagine their reasoning behind it is, that it will be a 'winner'. Any faults in the previous production can be ironed out. Of course it is great to win, but there are a number of groups so determined to 'win' on the circuit, that they forget that the making of theatre should be about 'play'.
The reason I think that farces don't ultimately make it is, that for a farce to work it needs to be constantly drilled, over and over, with a working set in place... any farce worth its salt will have lots of slammable doors and having a working set in rehearsal is beyond the means of most groups.

jorg

Regarding choice of play – yes, groups should strive to challenge themselves and their audience but prior to going on the circuit, groups have to perform for their local audience, which generates funds for the circuit. So there’s a balance between doing plays that are new and challenging and as you say doing a well known piece which puts bums on seats. The frustrating thing is that no matter how good your last production was, local audiences forget and tend not to come along if they don’t recognise the play or author.

As for a comedy winning, the only one that came close was when Ballyduff came second with “Caught in the Net” in 2008 so its hard to see it happening. I’ve seen adjudicators dismiss comedies as trivial but as was pointed out, if they’re done well …..why not. You’re right though, comedy, particularly farce is quite difficult to do and requires a lot of technique and rehearsal.

As to who will end up in Athlone, I’ve given up trying to guess that one years ago – lets see when the first results start rolling in!

David Barrett

Comedy versus Drama and winning Athlone. This is a debate that has been around as long as I have been going to festivals. I feel the problem lies with the that adjudicators many of whom will give comedies the "consolation" awards but shy away from giving the main award to a comedy. To get to Athlone with a comedy and finish in the first three is perhaps as good as you can hope for.

Many years ago when Liam Smith campaigned the circuit with farces such as "Hotel Paradiso" and Caleb Cooper with "Lend Me a Tenor" we debated the same issue. Yes the festivals will love you on the way for bringing comedies to their audiences but if your hoping to go all the way then be prepared for the disappointment.

I am not sure if it has been done, but it might be an interesting exercise to examine the the full list of plays which enter the circuit over the last ten years and see what the range they cover. Sometimes a play is chosen because it is safe and does not present the adjudicator with the option of judging the play. In the past we have taken new plays on the circuit but found we were not always judged on what we we had achieved with the script which should be the basis of their adjudication.

As more and more groups are going Open is there a danger that the Confined section will loose its competiveness ? Some festivals are now taking only a handful of Confined entries. I believe the two sections should be developed equally in so far as is possible. Thoughts anyone?

poteen

David Barrett wrote: »

As more and more groups are going Open is there a danger that the Confined section will loose its competiveness ? Some festivals are now taking only a handful of Confined entries. I believe the two sections should be developed equally in so far as is possible. Thoughts anyone?

This is a very good point David. More and more groups are going open in recent years although from talking to festival organisers this year, they seem to think theer is a shortage of open groups on the circuit in 2011. I think this is mainly down to financial reasons but in my mind this is a culture that has crept inj to the open section. I think its a badly kept secret that some open groups are employing external/ professional help in rerlation to production and in some cases, actors are getting a few quid. That culture in these times could not last.

I think there needs to be a relegation system employed in the open section. There are a few groups up there that just aint up to the standard required andf their productions would be more suited to the Confined section. Granted every group can have a bad year but perhaps a review of a group every 2-3 years based on results and numbers of festivals entered would be an idea.

observe

Looking at the ADCI website which lists winners in Athlone and Confined finals back as far as 2003, it emerges that in 2008 a farce came 2nd and there was another farce unplaced. From 2003 to 2007 there were no comedies or farces in Athlone. The Confined finals had 2 in2003 and 2004, one in 2005, one in 2007 and one in 2008. Of these 2 were placed 3rd.
Yes, there may be adjudicators who dismiss comedy/farce, but an adjudicator worth their salt will respond to the way in which a group has produced a given script. Comedy and farce are under represented I feel, because groups tend to go for Irish writers and there are very few Irish writers who write comedies/ farces and as I said before farces need to have a set in place during rehearsals so physical comedy can be drilled.
Interestingly on the one act circuit, 'Melody' a very funny comedy won the open section a few years ago.

There are less open groups out this year. The circuit is very expensive and I'm sure the present crisis has contributed to this. Some festivals have more confined groups than open, which I feel can have a negative impact on the quality of a festival. But yes, there are groups in the Open who are out of their league year in and year out, the league tables show this.

Re money changing hands - what is unacceptable? Surely groups have to hire vans for transport? a lot of groups will throw cast and crew a few quid towards their transport/ accom if they reach a final, but this could hardly be described as paying an actor.

jorg

Heres a useless but interesting statistic from 2003 up to and including this year. Its a top ten of the plays that have had the most performances on the circuit in that period. One non Irish play, no out and out comedies and 6 from the list are out this year!

The Beauty Queen Of Leenane (58)
The Kings Of Kilburn High Road (45)
Sive (44)
Moonshine (43)
Dancing At Lughnasa (38)
The Cripple Of Inishmaan (38)
The Weir (38)
Portia Coughlan (36)
All My Sons (34)
The Lonesome West (34)

naasrd

jorg wrote: »

The Beauty Queen Of Leenane (58)
The Kings Of Kilburn High Road (45)
Sive (44)
Moonshine (43)
Dancing At Lughnasa (38)
The Cripple Of Inishmaan (38)
The Weir (38)
Portia Coughlan (36)
All My Sons (34)
The Lonesome West (34)

Very interesting stats there. Surprised The Salvage Shop doesn't surface and just Friel and Keane from the old guard.

poteen

McDonagh has great royalties coming in all the time! Suprised not to see philadelphia here I come on that list. It seems to be getting outings all the time. Most of the good irish writers are represented this year. I see that Hugh Leonard is back on the road after a break. No sign of Mr. McPherson though. I'm looking forward to seeing the seafarer performed by an am group. Also some of enda walshs work.

jorg

Okay folks - heres the next 10 (11-20)

The Playboy Of The Western World (34)
Philadelphia Here I Come (33)
Juno And The Paycock (30)
The Field (30)
The Mai (30)
Thy Will Be Done (29)
I Do Not Like Thee, Dr. Fell (28)
Someone Who'll Watch Over Me (28)
The Memory of Water (28)
Sharons Grave (27)

Coincidently, again, only one non-Irish play and 6 of them out this year.

On another topic, whats the general view of groups competing in festivals in which they are the organisers?

brightspark

On another topic, whats the general view of groups competing in festivals in which they are the organisers?

Not suggesting that adjudicators are more favourable to the host group (and maybe in an effort to be seen to be unbiased the adjudicator might even mark the host group harder?), but perhaps it would be better to adopt the same rule as applied to the one act festival, where the host group doesn't compete in it's own festival!

(I don't buy raffle tickets at our own shows, even if's though it's not a fix it might look like one to others who don't win, why leave yourself open to the accusation in the first place?)

From my experience it's a bigger issue when the host group is competing elsewhere that night and as a result there is less support during the day. And that piece of tech gear you thought would be there has gone with them!!

As an unpaid 'techie' I think the lack of standards in lighting and sound equipment is a big issue.

Some venues have huge rigs, while others have the bare minimum.

12 channels on a non-memory board (not all working naturally, and another 6 5 on a seperate board) might be enough to provide a good level of basic lighting, but it leaves no room for the specials or split scenes etc. and because some other group brought in a complete rig on a previous evening the adjudicator wonders why you couldn't achieve the same standard of lighting!!

And while most venues don't provide any sound equipment, others have notices up stating that all groups must use the provided equipment?

How many venues comply with the ADCI's own rules?

"16.5 Hospitality: Help on stage and with the unloading of sets shall be provided. Assistance with lighting and sets will be provided up to two hours before curtain."

"11.1 Each festival shall make available a full complement of drapes (plain) cyclorama or cyclorama cloth and a reasonable supply of masking flats"

Some exceed them, sadly others don't seem to even try.

A venue a few years ago had soaking wet carpets in the dressing rooms accompanied by a stench!!

In another venue there were a couple of guys helping us all day, and even helped us source some replacements for props that got damaged on our long journey.

Guess which one we prefer to perform at...

observe

@Brightspark, host groups have been allowed to compete in their own festivals on the One Act circuit for a number of years. It's a difficult one.. there are both advantages and disadvantages.
There is obvious differences between venues and facilities. Some festivals try harder than others with the facilities they have... but there are certainly some whose efforts are minimal and groups in this case should simply not apply to these festivals!
Interestingly, despite the overwhelming number of Irish plays doing the rounds, since 2003 only 3 Irish plays have won in Athlone.!

naasrd

poteen wrote: »

McDonagh has great royalties coming in all the time! Suprised not to see philadelphia here I come on that list. It seems to be getting outings all the time. Most of the good irish writers are represented this year. I see that Hugh Leonard is back on the road after a break. No sign of Mr. McPherson though. I'm looking forward to seeing the seafarer performed by an am group. Also some of enda walshs work.

Thought Billy Roche also might have figured the 11-20 section.

jorg

Some stats on the top ten authors from 2003 to 2011. As Poteen pointed out - no McPherson or indeed Roche this year. Not bad earners for the top men considering the groups do a number of local performances too.

John B. Keane (208)
Brian Friel (180)
Martin McDonagh (161)
Marina Carr (112)
Bernard Farrell (95)
Arthur Miller (90)
Frank McGuinness (79)
Jim Nolan (71)
Conor McPherson (55)
Billy Roche (53)

naasrd

jorg wrote: »

Some stats on the top ten authors from 2003 to 2011. As Poteen pointed out - no McPherson or indeed Roche this year. Not bad earners for the top men considering the groups do a number of local performances too.

John B. Keane (208)
Brian Friel (180)
Martin McDonagh (161)
Marina Carr (112)
Bernard Farrell (95)
Arthur Miller (90)
Frank McGuinness (79)
Jim Nolan (71)
Conor McPherson (55)
Billy Roche (53)

These are really interesting stats, have you got the next 10 authors?

Elliejo

It will be interesting to see if more groups go out on festival now that a lot of people aren't working. When we last competed, several years ago now, we had people who could go and erect the set, and do all the tech stuff as many were unemployed or working part-time. Then came the boom, with everyone in full employment, and unable/unwilling to take time off to help out.

jorg

Forgot to include some from this year which changes slightly the top ten. Here's a modified top 20

John B. Keane (208)
Brian Friel (196)
Martin McDonagh (161)
Marina Carr (112)
Bernard Farrell (95)
Arthur Miller (90)
Frank McGuinness (79)
Jim Nolan (71)
Tom Murphy (67)
Hugh Leonard (56)
Conor McPherson (55)
Billy Roche (53)
Jimmy Murphy (51)
Sean O'Casey (49)
Michael Carey (34)
Alan Ayckbourn (34)
J. M. Synge (33)
Tennessee Williams (32)
Shelagh Stephenson (29)
Noel Coward (27)

poteen

What are peoples general experiences of the best festivals in the country. What would be your top five festivals in terms of facilities and atmosphere etc

Is it a bit mean to name the worst 5 festivals??

jorg

Now, that would be a dangerous question to answer in a public forum! particularly as we're heading off on the circuit in a few weeks.

I'll be very diplomatic, put my tongue firmly in my cheek and say that my top festival is ... Athlone

poteen

Nicely avoided Jorg! Bradan wont be stepping on any toes !

I think its clear though that some festivals are really performing at a very poor level. Things aint likely to improve either the way sponsorship is going.

Another question I have..... What do groups think of the reduction in festival participation from 8 to 7 ? i think it is a good thing and gives newer griups a chance to break on to the festival circuit.

jorg

poteen wrote: »

Another question I have..... What do groups think of the reduction in festival participation from 8 to 7 ? i think it is a good thing and gives newer griups a chance to break on to the festival circuit.

Just putting a plug in for Tom and Viv in one of the other forums.

I agree. Dropping to 7 is good and there was talk of dropping it to 6. It would be interesting to know if some of the groups touring with 3, 4, 5 and 6 festivals are doing that number by choice or whether that was all they were offered.

poteen

Best of luck with Tom and Viv. I'm looking forward to catching it somewhere on the circuit. I like what I have read in the synopsis of it. Regarding festivals and the reduction etc etc. I know for a fact that the groups doing 4 or 5 festivals some is by choice due to commitment required and cost but also because that is all the festivals they could get because of play choice (not comedy) or because they are a new group. This maybe aplies more so to the confined section. I don't believe that the ADCI are doing nearly enough to help get new groups on the road. Some of the festivals are a bit "closed shop'

poteen

Well the Circuit for 2011 got underway last night in Rush with Gorey Little Theatre peforming 'The Heiress'. Kilmuckridge is beginning tonight with the home group performing the field and a few two more festivals starting tomorrow night. Its hard to believe it has come about so quickly!

Vinny-Chase

I checked out most of the shows in the Kildare festival last week (bar 2) and have to say that the best overall acting I seen was in Lovers At Versaille in the confined section. Had the strongest ensemble cast. It appears that most groups seem to be having to put in whatever "actors" they have, as some plays were let down by some really bad actors.

Be interested to hear people's thoughts on stuff they have seen.

observe

So, an American play may may well take the top honours in Athlone... I think at the end of the day it will be down to has the strongest ensemble cast.

cavalcaders

I have to admit after seeing Ballyduffs production of all my sons I certainly wouldn't rule them out!!!.....They have a fantastic piece and their acting is top class!!! keep an eye on them!!!

Vinny-Chase

Can't go wrong with any Arthur Miller play.

observe

Oh some groups have made a hash of Miller in the past. At the moment it looks like a Mamet/ Kushner battle in the open.

Vinny-Chase

I meant in terms of; can't go wrong with a Miller play, in terms of quality. It's up to the groups to do the play justice. Justice that his plays deserve

observe

@Vinny Chase - yes you are right, Miller is a brilliant playwright. This weekend will bring more clarity to who is in!

cavalcaders

I certainly wouldn't say its a two horse race...............because its all down to one judgement....... everyone seems to beating each other!!!...I would say this is one of the most open competition in years!!!...........

You cant rule out the likes of kilmeen cornmill and ballyduff, these groups have been around too long, their experienced and if they get there they will all feel they have a great chance of winning along with Silken thomas and Prosperous and others!!!

Vinny-Chase

I don't think it comes down to how long a group has been around. It comes down to smart play choice and intelligent casting.

Any one else see any more plays?

Vinny-Chase

I didn't see Silken Thomas but heard people discussing it after seeing it. It's the same old thing as usual. It's what they do. I'm sure most groups could head off and copy any professional production verbatim. Not my thing I have to say.

Prosperous are doing November aren't they? The guy playing the president gets my vote for best actor! Best I seen in all the plays in Kildare. And I would be a very harsh judge of actors

observe

Haven't seen Ballyduff or Kilmeen. If justice is done it will be ensemble acting that wins through.

Vinny-Chase

cavalcaders wrote: »

...his assessment :-)

Ya i'm not a fan of people heading over to Broadway or the west end either and coming back with a copy n paste version!!!......Where is the creativity??......Taking a piece and making it ur own is what it is all about... putting your own stamp on it!!

But at the end of the day competition is competition and if it works!!...........I feel sorry for groups who take risks and don't get the credit they deserve, at least their version is original.

Couldn't agree more!

You can never account for some adjudications. When I did Lonesome West there a couple of years ago, the group won 6 of 8 I think it was and the other 2 they weren't even in the top 3! Likewise another play I did years ago. 7 of 8 and not in the top 3 in the other one.

brightspark

Does anyone else think that 'good' plays are more likely to win than plays that arn't so well written.
(by good I mean well written with good plots, well drawn characters, good dialogues etc. )

I have on at least one occasion heard an adjudicator tell the director of a play that they should have 'cut' some lines from the play to improve it.

I know that some playwrights don't care as long as they get the royalties and others have redrafted their plays over time, but there are also many who quite rightly insist that their play must be performed as written so I don't think an amateur group should really deviate from the playwright's intention.

Vinny-Chase

I don't think writer's work should be touched at all. You choose a play, go with it. It's not up to you (the group/ adjudicator) to deviate from that.

Didn't Mc Donagh pull the rights to his stuff a few years ago because someone added something into Cripple...or something like that.

poteen

Adjudicators are not meant to judge on the play or if they like it or not. Its what the company did with the play that counts although ive heard alot of adjudications this year where the adjudicator has said they havnt liked the play etc etc and no doubt about it - there results are influenced. If they love for example a writer like Brian Friel & Mc Donagh- There is a great chance that that company will get placed no matter what.

In relation to Athlone, i cant see 'November' winning it. They are very reluctant to give it to comedy in athlone. For me, the Silken show is just not strong enough in the female acting department. There isnt enough balance. I also sense a mood that people are moving against Silken now. This always happens if your successful. Very Similar to The Man Utd haters. If your on top, people want you to fall and so people are looking to pick holes in Silkens production. I feel that no matter what the result this year, they need to move away from copy cat productions of west end and broadway shows. Its no secret that their History Boys, Equus and now Angels shows are very copy cat in certain ways. They dont need to do this. They should trust themselves to take on a play from scratch with their own style. They have the actors (male). What does worry me for them is that 'Philadelphia Here I come' Was there only trip away from West end in recent years and that was their worst show. A truly awful interpretation of Friels Classic. They now need to prove they are not a one trick pony that rely on Gimics.

For me, the open section could go in the Direction of Bangor (A View From the Bridge) or Kilmeen (A Whistle in the Dark). I dont think Cornmills Beauty Queen has the killer blow needed in Athlone. But the man adjudicating Athlone this year has thrown up some very strange results in the past so Standby!

In Relation to the Confined Section, There are alot of results going to dictate the table this weekend . There are alot of groups with one win who are looking to get over the line.

Vinny-Chase

I would be well impressed if an adjudicator gave a win to a play they DIDN'T like!

Philadelphia... was fairly bad alright. ST have always had problems getting women actors.

I can't see November getting it because some of their actors are very weak. I think who ever has the strongest over all cast should be in with the best shot. But, who knows what goes through the mind of the final adjudicator.

I can only go off the few that I seen in the confined section but Lovers At Versaille would get my nod. I thought the last 1/4 was a bit meh, but that's just the play, but in terms of production & acting I thought it was the best that I seen.

cavalcaders

So it looks like we have our 9 finalists although one (wexford) will have to sweat it out for at least another few days!!....Thoughts?

giggs2

prosperous will probably win in newry. ballyduff realy good. silken thomas adventurous as ever. really admire them. kilmeen can not be dismissed. corn mill have very strong cast. having said all that prosperous will probably win athlone

cavalcaders

Well I havent seen the prosperous or the bangor show or the Bradan show but have seen the rest and for me it is between B Duff and Kilmeen.......both have beaten each other so it will be close.

Ok i Know i cant sit on the fence....................il go for Ballyduff......think they have learnt from their projection mistake last yr........and will go one place better than they did last yr!!