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What do you think of the US Ambassador's comments about graduates in Ireland?

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    #92
    IzzyWizzy
    Registered Users Posts: 6,645 ✭✭✭IzzyWizzy


    DublinWriter wrote: »
    I don't want to sound like an educational elitist here, but I am, so I will.

    The US educational system is a joke, unless you can afford the 100k+ to send your offspring to an Ivy League college, and even then...

    Firstly, Calculus is considered a third level Maths subject in the states.

    ...and even then, most term papers in US Universities are multiple-choice.

    Most European educational institutions score a US accredited degree on the same level as three British A-Levels.

    I have to say, I agree with this. You have to consider that the US has a population of around 300 million - of course they're going to have exceptional universities (think of the money that goes into them) and exceptionally bright people. But the American graduates I know (and I know many) are not great at all and the more self-aware ones openly admit that their education was a joke. Multiple choice exams in final year? Being able to redo essays and repeat exams until you get the grade you wanted? How could you not do well?
    PeakOutput wrote: »
    the way i see it is, our education system in general is good but could be alot better. the leaving cert needs a massive overhaul

    I agree. I don't think Irish third level is amazing across the board either. But an American saying that is like the pot calling the kettle black. If it were a French or German person, then I might take it seriously.
    the third level model needs to change. everyone who wants to go to university should be able to, that dosnt mean that everyone should get a free third level education.

    Everyone CAN go to university. There's a very fair points based system (much fairer than in the UK) where if you get the grades, you get in. The points aren't even high for many courses. If you do badly on the LC, you can pay your way into a private college. There are generous grants available.
    i personally witnessed 6 business students who i was living with in first year go to no more then one or two hours a week and still get and average of b's

    That doesn't really mean anything. I know people who never went to lectures and still did well because they did the work at home and/or were really smart.
    i think you mentioned something about multiple choice. the business course in my university has plenty of multiple choice exams over the course of the degree, but in ireland that dosnt really matter anyway because, depending on the department you are in, you are usually given the exact questions that are coming up on the exam anyway(arts subjects seem particularly bad for this but its happened to me in all three departments, iv had modules in, in this university).

    I've never been given the questions in advance. Or even an idea of what they would be, and I did a Humanities subject.
    people can take issue with the fact an american is giving us honest advice all they want but the fact he is american and the fact they have their own problems dosnt make what he said any less true

    Well, when the insinuation is that American graduates are of a better quality, I find that a bit ridiculous. I have an Irish undergraduate degree and it seems well respected around the world. Employers are almost always impressed when they see it on my CV. I did a year abroad and postgraduate study in prestigious universities outside Ireland and had no problem with the standard of work there. So I really can't complain about the education I received. I certainly didn't think it was an easy ride.


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    #93
    Seloth
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,039 ✭✭✭Seloth


    Can I just add how this article was written 5 years ago.


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    #94
    Black Swan
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 47,231 CMod ✭✭✭✭Black Swan


    US ambassador James C Kenny should first look at the quality of education in the United States, before criticizing Ireland. The world's richest superpower has nothing to brag about. Essentially, both countries were ranked average among 70 economies surveyed.

    OECD 2009 Results:
    Ireland Science = 508
    USA Science = 502
    OECD Average = 501

    Ireland Math = 487
    USA Math = 487
    OECD Average = 496

    Ireland Overall Reading = 496
    USA Overall Reading = 500
    OECD Average = 493

    Source: http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/54/12/46643496.pdf


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    #95
    PeakOutput
    Registered Users Posts: 7,639 ✭✭✭PeakOutput


    Blue_Lagoon wrote: »
    US ambassador James C Kenny should first look at the quality of education in the United States, before criticizing Ireland. The world's richest superpower has nothing to brag about. Essentially, both countries were ranked average among 70 economies surveyed.

    again, the standard of american education is irelevant, we arent in competition with them for foreign direct investment we are in competition with the rest of the world


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    #96
    af_thefragile
    Registered Users Posts: 7,171 ✭✭✭af_thefragile


    PeakOutput wrote: »
    again, the standard of american education is irelevant, we arent in competition with them for foreign direct investment we are in competition with the rest of the world

    I think this is the point.
    Right now ireland is competing against rest of Europe and other foreign gaints such as india and china (who have a very high level of education as well) for foreign (mainly us) investments.

    Compared to other countries in Europe and countries like india and china, Ireland doesn't really have that good an education system.
    The 3rd level university education is good but the leaving cert is a bit of a joke. I can't see why its difficult for anyone to get over 400 points. Infact with a bit of work anyone can easily get over 500 points in it. It's not very hard at all. Sure it takes work but what doesn't?! And if you're not willing to put in the effort then you really aren't fit for much...


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    #97
    pakb1ue
    Registered Users Posts: 177 ✭✭pakb1ue


    I have to agree as I am a prime example as I was able to get to 4th year without putting in much effort. In first year I had to repeat a lot of modules and I still failed them and passed by compensation. Just compensation again in both 2nd and 3rd year but didnt have to do repeats. Then in 4th year I failed two exams and I was able to repeat them in August while still being able to hold on to my honours degree and managed to get a 2.1.

    I now have a degree from an NUI with a good grade in what is considered a hard course. But in fairness I did work my ass off in 4th year but only really in the second semester which was a joke that I was able to get away without doing much work for so long.

    I also think the hole multiple choice is a joke, I can remember my house mates having 45 minute exams that were multiple choice while I was having 3 hour exam on programming.


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    #98
    af_thefragile
    Registered Users Posts: 7,171 ✭✭✭af_thefragile


    The course I'm doing, you really can't get tougher than multiple choice questions! Everyone dreads them!

    Its like in the written stuff you can almost bull **** your way across it. But the MCQs are solely created to mind**** you! Its extremely difficult to pick out the right answer when all 5 options seem plausible! You need to know your stuff inside out to be able to pick out that one small little difference which makes one option right and the others wrong. You really can't get far through guessing and luck.
    And then you have 3hr long MCQ exams with 120 MCQs to answer...

    Americans especially love the MCQs for this. Supposedly they're the ones which truly test the knowledge and separate the one's who know their stuff inside out from the ones who don't.

    But then there's a galactic difference in the level of difficulty in school/secondly level MCQs and a high level university course MCQs.


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    #99
    de Lehman Bruddars
    Registered Users Posts: 20 ✭de Lehman Bruddars


    strokemyclover wrote: »
    Bill Cullen was right: Daddy can't buy you cop on in Trinity College.

    And no matter what he does, for the rest of his life, Bill Cullen will always be subhuman skanger scum, so who gives a fukc what he thinks?


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    #100
    RainbowRose81
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 444 ✭✭RainbowRose81


    I agree. He shouldn't of been expecting that much though because Ireland has a population of 4 million when you look at the world that is a tiny amount. A good few of the colleges and university seem to put the cart before the horse in their methods of teaching. They do the practicals first then the theory so they don't seem to put theory in to practice. Ireland doesn't give that much importance to education its not like India or China where they are see education as the most important thing to get your life going. I think Ireland has a very small population compared to them where they produce a lot of highly skilled graduates. Also in most 3rd level college, there isn't any strategies established to meet the needs of people who have learning difficulties such as dyslexia. Even at primary and secondary level they don't have strategies in place now because the government don't fund alot of special needs teachers anymore. So how can a person who has servere dyslexia or has autism get to 3rd level to have a chance to succeed academically if they don't have the foundations to overcome their learning difficulty.


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    #101
    strokemyclover
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,198 ✭✭✭strokemyclover


    de Lehman Bruddars wrote: »
    And no matter what he does, for the rest of his life, Bill Cullen will always be subhuman skanger scum, so who gives a fukc what he thinks?

    Personally, I don't! I think I was just quoting due to shock of him being right for once and the popularity of the quote itself these days.

    The man is a tool!


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    #102
    spurious
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 27,142 CMod ✭✭✭✭spurious


    Was it not Geraldine said that, not the great Bill.


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    #103
    Holybejaysus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 415 ✭✭Holybejaysus


    de Lehman Bruddars wrote: »
    And no matter what he does, for the rest of his life, Bill Cullen will always be subhuman skanger scum, so who gives a fukc what he thinks?

    :rolleyes: Ok, I'll bite. Why is he subhuman skanger scum? What has he done to deserve that wrath, tell me? He made his money the hard way, fair and square. I'm not a fan his, but I will give him credit where it's due.

    The Irish truly are a jealous, spiteful people. That chip on your shoulder is starting to show..


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    #104
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    wellboy76 wrote: »
    But he was really spoiling us with the ferrero rochers!
    Yes, but chances are he'll take the one from the bottom of the pile! ;)
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4P-nZZkQqTc


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    #105
    IzzyWizzy
    Registered Users Posts: 6,645 ✭✭✭IzzyWizzy


    Holybejaysus wrote: »
    :rolleyes: Ok, I'll bite. Why is he subhuman skanger scum? What has he done to deserve that wrath, tell me? He made his money the hard way, fair and square. I'm not a fan his, but I will give him credit where it's due.

    The Irish truly are a jealous, spiteful people. That chip on your shoulder is starting to show..

    He acts like a complete skanger. Fair play to him for making all that money but he's a prime example that money can't buy class.


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    #106
    terenc
    Registered Users Posts: 384 ✭✭terenc


    IzzyWizzy wrote: »
    He acts like a complete skanger. Fair play to him for making all that money but he's a prime example that money can't buy class.
    Gave me the money, class will follow.


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    #107
    Holybejaysus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 415 ✭✭Holybejaysus


    IzzyWizzy wrote: »
    He acts like a complete skanger. Fair play to him for making all that money but he's a prime example that money can't buy class.

    How does he act like a skanger? What examples are you referring to? I wouldn't say he's the most sophisticated person in the world, but he's hardly a skanger either.


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