RTE/ TG4 Deal Northern Ireland - Is true.

Sam the Aerialman

I spent a considerable amount of time talking with contacts and following up e-mails, i was sent an e-mail by a Senior Member within Digital UK and confirms the validity of the RTE/ TG4 plan to broadcast in Northern Ireland. There are some surprises as you read down.

Do you know how this deal is structured and when do you expect to see progress? DEVELOPMENTS ARE STILL HAPPENING but the UK and NI governments signed an agreement allowing for broadcasters and wider industry to collaborate on bringing RTE services to NI and BBC services to the republic. This has culminated in the agreement for an RTE/TG4 7th mini mux to be provided from some (but not all) transmitters in the Arqiva ran network serving Northern Ireland. The exact technical formulation and launch plan have yet to be confirmed but the mini-mux is expected to be launched as part of the existing Northern Ireland DSO scheduled for 2012.

Have Digital UK had any input into this apparent deal?
The agreements are in place to develop the RTE/TG4 funded service in time for 2012. RTE, RTE-NL, Comreg, Ofcom, DMOL, DTG,BBC and DUK are all involved in the strategy and technical discussions that commenced earlier this year and continue to develop the proposition.

There seems to be a lack detail around the technical specifics?
Not surprising when we are 2 years away from a launch. Ofcom, Comreg, Transcos and spectrum planners are well aware of the challenges and what is practical. The full details are still being worked on. Regular strategy and technical meetings are taking place, the latest technical session being this week.

The interleaved spectrum that's available in Northern Ireland post switchover, this space is available for local operators to access the Freeview platform, an interleaved (7th) multiplex at Limavady?

Limavady is not one of the transmitters.

Currently the plans provide for the 7th mux transmitting RTE1, RTE2, TG4 SD services and some radio from Black Mountain; Brougher Mountain; Carnmoney Hill Relay; and from the Divis, using its old mast and antenna. NOTE that plans are not finalised but currently the mini mux is planned to be MPEG4 based and is expected to use the latest DVBT2 standard. This would mean that homes with MPEG2 only Freeview models would need a new box , TV or recorder based on this standard to receive the existing Freeview services and also the new MPEG mini mux.

RTE’s plans for switchover in the ROI continue and are targetted for 2012 too. The potential for transmitter overlaps between some masts in the ROI and NI networks is being considered and what this means for viewers wishing to purchase kit. We are well aware of NI and ROI consumers purchasing from either side of the border and the need for them to fully recognise what models will best match the services they want to watch. RTE’s plans to use Nordig will mean that there will be some incompatibility between text and interactive services and possibly the EPG as I wrote to you about previously.

With that said TG4 has already been offered space on the BBC B multiplex and
will broadcast from all 47 transmitters in the North so it will continue?

Pre DSO UHF allocations are not those that are used for DSO, use the DUK postcode checker to get the latest view on how UHF frequencies are allocated for all NI masts that reside in the UK DTT network.

The amount of rights issues involved, UTV will surely seek a legal injunction against this due to loss of ad revenue.
UTV are aware of the plan and decided not to be involved.

Does Digital UK feel this was this a rubbish story in the Irish news or is this seriously going forward?

Digital UK does not express views. Its job as a not for profit organisation leading the UK DTT switchover is to work with industry stakeholders who are developing the network harmonised with neighbouring countries and regions and to communicate switchover. DUK’s comms include advising the public on the available platforms and products in a platform neutral and technology impartial way. As normal we will do this from around 12 months out from DSO, Strategy and technical discussions take account of this requirement. For the latest developments in the interim check the COMREG and OFCOM websites.

Do you know if a VERSION 1 DSO Plan is available for Northern Ireland and who has been appointed from Digital UK to take the Ulster region through DSO?

Digital UK will appoint a manager around 12 months out from switchover in Ireland.

Sponge Bob

We know that Ryan signed a reciprocal deal called the Memorandum of Understanding or MoU early this year. We also know that Ryan babbled in his usual style about the 'enormity' of this deal and then deleted elements of his babble from the Green Party or his own website shortly afterwards.

Trying to get a straight answer from Ryan and his dysfunctional Department ....about anything....... is impossible. That is what 'smart' and 'green' means.

Maybe we will get the BBC on DTT down here, maybe we won't.

Sam Russell

The piece of information in this that should be widely noted is the mention of incompatibility between FreeviewHD and Saorview - that is the difference between Nordig and D Book.

So more uncertainty in the hardware required.

RTE’s plans to use Nordig will mean that there will be some incompatibility between text and interactive services and possibly the EPG as I wrote to you about previously.

watty

If it's a separate mini-mux with MPEG4, that solves the feed issues. Just feed from Saorsat (if that service succeeds).

We will get BBC via Satellite.

UTV effectively may cease to exist post ASO if ITV get their way (as a Separate ITV channel).

If this happens, it won't be till after ASO. That will give them time to gauge Direct Saorview coverage and takeup and Saorsat takeup (Maybe over one year of both).

IMO when you consider funding etc, there is a high probability nothing will happen.

How is it all to be paid for?

Surely Limavady is one of the TX areas (along with North Antrim) that Terrestrial coverage is most needed?

watty

Sam Russell wrote: »

The piece of information in this that should be widely noted is the mention of incompatibility between FreeviewHD and Saorview - that is the difference between Nordig and D Book.

So more uncertainty in the hardware required.

RTE’s plans to use Nordig will mean that there will be some incompatibility between text and interactive services and possibly the EPG as I wrote to you about previously.

Though RTE are specifying the UK profile of MHEG. A "Freeview HD" box ought to mostly work

EPG is the main issue as UK is not using either DVB-EIT or MHEG for EPG. That can be solved by RTE EPG adding N.I. Program info and N.I. Freeview adding Irish Program info?

This all nearly raises more questions than it answers. I'll be a believer when I see it on my relatives' TV sets in Co.Antrim.

The Cush

Sam Russell wrote: »

The piece of information in this that should be widely noted is the mention of incompatibility between FreeviewHD and Saorview - that is the difference between Nordig and D Book.

So more uncertainty in the hardware required.

RTE’s plans to use Nordig will mean that there will be some incompatibility between text and interactive services and possibly the EPG as I wrote to you about previously.

Attached is a Teracom document which compares NorDig vs DTG D-Book DVB-T/DVB-T2 receiver requirements.

The Cush

watty wrote: »

EPG is the main issue as UK is not using either DVB-EIT or MHEG for EPG. That can be solved by RTE EPG adding N.I. Program info and N.I. Freeview adding Irish Program info?

According to lawhec the freeview epg data is from the DVB-SI stream. Black Briar has posted that his freeview-HD TV populates the epg from both Saorview and Freeview and are displayed together in the Sony guide/epg.

Sam Russell

If the 'Senior Member' of Digital UK says there are compatibility issues between Nordig and the UK Dbook, then there are issues. Some manufacturers will make those differences disappear but others (like Panasonic) will hide behind the 'it's not our problem' defence.

It is all not clear.

lawhec

Hmmm, I'll take my very strong scepticism back on the original story back to being sceptical , probably because I don't find the Irish News' journalism standards as high as they used to be. Some items of interest there...

Currently the plans provide for the 7th mux transmitting RTE1, RTE2, TG4 SD services and some radio from Black Mountain; Brougher Mountain; Carnmoney Hill Relay; and from the Divis, using its old mast and antenna. NOTE that plans are not finalised but currently the mini mux is planned to be MPEG4 based and is expected to use the latest DVBT2 standard. This would mean that homes with MPEG2 only Freeview models would need a new box , TV or recorder based on this standard to receive the existing Freeview services and also the new MPEG mini mux.

So it looks like the provisional proposal is for three TV channels and an unspecified amount of audio services on a DVB-T2 multiplex. Possibly RTÉ1, RTÉ2 & TG4 in HD with 64QAM used instead of 256QAM to improve potential coverage, giving about 8Mb of video for each channel. Three of the transmitters are Belfast based (Black Mountain and Carnmoney Hill acting as in-fillers) to blanket the city and urban area. No idea how far its coverage would extend, wherever it would come close to matching the rest of the potential Freeview services post DSO. Brougher Mountain's inclusion is a little strange, as most of its service area can receive RTÉ from across the border without too many problems albeit needing larger than 10 element UHF aerials and masthead amps in the majority of cases. Perhaps western parts of Omagh where RTÉ struggles a bit would be the main benefactor. There's already possible problems in store at DSO due to Brougher's COM multiplexes using the same frequencies as Divis' PSB multiplexes. Might be possible that Divis & Brougher Mountain may be run as a DVB-T2 SFN multiplex (on E30?) with a reduced guard interval, along with a smaller SFN on Carnmoney Hill and Black Mountain (UHF Group B frequency)?

RTE’s plans for switchover in the ROI continue and are targetted for 2012 too. The potential for transmitter overlaps between some masts in the ROI and NI networks is being considered and what this means for viewers wishing to purchase kit. We are well aware of NI and ROI consumers purchasing from either side of the border and the need for them to fully recognise what models will best match the services they want to watch. RTE’s plans to use Nordig will mean that there will be some incompatibility between text and interactive services and possibly the EPG as I wrote to you about previously.

The main EPG problem I can think of is ensuring that program data for these three channels is included in the general 7-day Freeview EPG without having to tune into the mini-multiplex. At present, Freeview program data is fully carried equally across all six multiplexes. In areas with current Freeview & Saorview reception overlap, to receive updated EPG data for Freeview, you must tune in to a UK DTT multiplex - no info is carried for Saorview channels until you tune in to a RoI multiplex when the receive should start to populate the EPG. The rest of the incompatibility problems I wouldn't know a huge amount about right now.

paky

fare play to sinn fein. a party that actually does something for the people

lawhec

watty wrote: »

If it's a separate mini-mux with MPEG4, that solves the feed issues. Just feed from Saorsat (if that service succeeds).

We will get BBC via Satellite.

UTV effectively may cease to exist post ASO if ITV get their way (as a Separate ITV channel).

If this happens, it won't be till after ASO. That will give them time to gauge Direct Saorview coverage and takeup and Saorsat takeup (Maybe over one year of both).

IMO when you consider funding etc, there is a high probability nothing will happen.

How is it all to be paid for?

Surely Limavady is one of the TX areas (along with North Antrim) that Terrestrial coverage is most needed?

Would a Saorsat feed be practical? Unless RTÉ1, RTÉ2 and TG4 could all be on the same multiplex/transponder then the statmultiplexing of Saorview would make this process tricky at best, surely?

The future of UTV appears to be reasonably sound, if ITV wants to cut the remaining parts of its PSB obligations then they'll need to vacate Mux2 (and resurface on COM1 probably). UTV don't appear to have many qualms about providing local programming itself so could probably keep going without ITV ,though it would lose many of its biggest ratings pullers - a mini network with STV could keep them going, whom have expressed that they would prefer a relationship with ITV plc similar to that with TV3 currently enjoys. I think the problem with ITV1 at the moment is that it wants to have its cake and eat it.

In terms of coverage prediction, the Digital UK postcode database I see was updated last month for Northern Ireland at least. With experience from RTÉNL, Arqiva, Ofcom and Comreg all parties should have a good idea what terrestrial coverage of Saorview in the north should be like through computer models.

As for funding, well the Irish government almost certainly won't - they're broke, and won't commit to anything which hasn't already had significant funds ploughed into it so they're out. Westminster are going around on a load of public spending cuts so aren't going to fund it. Stormont? Might give partial funding but I'd be sure not all costs. I think it's the Department of Culture, Arts & Leisure that currently covers the cost of TG4 at Divis. UK licence fee? Possible, there is a £130 million per annum surplus that'll be available after DSO from licence fee money designed to cover the DSO. The BBC is being allowed to keep this, but it's still possible that a tiny fraction of this amount may be used to fund the costs required for at least an agreement of several years by slicing off a small amount of that money as a one-off to fund the service for several years, with a look at renewal further down the line at the end of this decade. Selling of spectrum space? If there is spare space for SD channels to be carried, some broadcasters (particularly international ones) might stump some money up to be carried and helping cover some of the operational costs. It's a tricky economic climate right now, but costing the service and the funds to supply it isn't impossible.

lawhec

paky wrote: »

fare play to sinn fein. a party that actually does something for the people

Can you point to a source of what Sinn Fein's involvement in this has been?

fat-tony

lawhec wrote: »

The main EPG problem I can think of is ensuring that program data for these three channels is included in the general 7-day Freeview EPG without having to tune into the mini-multiplex. At present, Freeview program data is fully carried equally across all six multiplexes.

lawhec - is there any documentation available in the public domain about the Freeview EPG that I could tap into? Through my PC I have access to satellite and RoI terrestrial data. I'm aware that Freesat carries its main 7 day EPG on dedicated transponders using compression tables and that Saorview's EPG is carried in the EIT data. I can see those data streams using MPEG-TS analysis tools, but I have no access to Freeview data and I wanted to compare the way each DTT system worked.

Sam the Aerialman

watty wrote: »

Surely Limavady is one of the TX areas (along with North Antrim) that Terrestrial coverage is most needed?

Limavady will not be included - There is a reason. Channel 51 is the only available channel left that could be used. They feel that Holywell Hill adequately covers the populous areas with RTE services so a decision is to be made if channel 51 is assigned to Londonderry. This is to add an additional commercial mux as they feel it is too large an area to leave on 3 psb muxes, the commercial operators have renewed interest in 8/ 9 sites two of which are Londonderry and Cambret Hill.

lucernarian

I understand that there will be no RTE Saorview broadcasts from any transposer in Inishowen. So without Limavady broadcasting this 7th mux, there's going to be lots of people having to shell out for Saorsat along the north coast and of course about half of Inishowen. I also thought that Truskmore was able to broadcast to most places that could receive Brougher Mountain by comparison.

I don't know what RTÉ's intention for Moville and Malin are, but they will be two of only a handful of sites which will broadcast only analogue radio and will actually cease TV broadcasting, based on the 51-site plan. Moville was even a VHF TV relay so its necessity has been long established

Digifriendly

To_be_confirmed wrote: »

I understand that there will be no RTE Saorview broadcasts from any transposer in Inishowen. So without Limavady broadcasting this 7th mux, there's going to be lots of people having to shell out for Saorsat along the north coast and of course about half of Inishowen. I also thought that Truskmore was able to broadcast to most places that could receive Brougher Mountain by comparison.

I don't know what RTÉ's intention for Moville and Malin are, but they will be two of only a handful of sites which will broadcast only analogue radio and will actually cease TV broadcasting, based on the 51-site plan. Moville was even a VHF TV relay so its necessity has been long established

You're absolutely right. Lots of aerials for Moville along N. Antrim coast although I think Holywell Hill is receivable there with decent aerial setup.

Mike 1972

paky wrote: »

a party that actually does something for the people

I really think politics should be kept to a minimum on forums like this

Peter Henderson

Currently the plans provide for the 7th mux transmitting RTE1, RTE2, TG4 SD services and some radio from Black Mountain; Brougher Mountain; Carnmoney Hill Relay; and from the Divis, using its old mast and antenna. NOTE that plans are not finalised but currently the mini mux is planned to be MPEG4 based and is expected to use the latest DVBT2 standard

Any idea of the power levels involved Sam ?

I assume Black Mountain is the low powered relay transmitter that covers West Belfast ?

Sam the Aerialman

Dear Peter
Do me a favour and please stop copying and pasting what i write in this forum and stick it on that UKFREETV website. It is hard enough to get reliable information from learned people then they discover it's written on a free for all website. I posting the info here for this user group, i have had to apologise to my source who is miffed this happened. It is likely i may not get useful information from this person in the future.
Cheers Sam.

lawhec

fat-tony wrote: »

lawhec - is there any documentation available in the public domain about the Freeview EPG that I could tap into? Through my PC I have access to satellite and RoI terrestrial data. I'm aware that Freesat carries its main 7 day EPG on dedicated transponders using compression tables and that Saorview's EPG is carried in the EIT data. I can see those data streams using MPEG-TS analysis tools, but I have no access to Freeview data and I wanted to compare the way each DTT system worked.

I did have a tool on my laptop a few years ago that allowed me to access the data streams on Freeview multiplexes which contained EIT data. My memory of that is a little sketchy though. I don't know about any data in the public domain I'm afraid.

STB

To_be_confirmed wrote: »

.
I don't know what RTÉ's intention for Moville and Malin are, but they will be two of only a handful of sites which will broadcast only analogue radio and will actually cease TV broadcasting, based on the 51-site plan. Moville was even a VHF TV relay so its necessity has been long established

Yes. Early next year by all accounts. And for that reason Limavady would not be required.

lucernarian

STB wrote: »

Yes. Early next year by all accounts. And for that reason Limavady would not be required.

What about next year?

If you're talking about DTT from Moville, someone in the know told me that RTENL hadn't planned for any Saorview transmitters in Inishowen.

fat-tony

lawhec wrote: »

I did have a tool on my laptop a few years ago that allowed me to access the data streams on Freeview multiplexes which contained EIT data. My memory of that is a little sketchy though. I don't know about any data in the public domain I'm afraid.

Thanks for that. I had a good look through the DVB SI specifications and RTENL matches what is specified for EIT data. The fact that various references on forums etc. to the "standard" Freeview 8 day EPG, would lead me to believe it was EIT data as per DVB spec. I know that proprietary 14-day EPG was being provided to some early adopter PVRs in the UK, but that ceased for some of the models back last July. I infer from what I'm reading about the newer HD+ PVRs with the digital tickmark, that they use the standard Freeview provided EPG. This must contain embedded CRID information for series linking etc. I saw a BBC technical blog which detailed the use of the green button for booking a series link from a trailer being shown for an upcoming series. This was using CRID data embedded in a Related Content Table (RCT). They are trialling this in England before rolling it out to the regions. This is all using standard SI data - no MHEG needed.

Peter Henderson

Sam the Aerialman wrote: »

Dear Peter
Do me a favour and please stop copying and pasting what i write in this forum and stick it on that UKFREETV website. It is hard enough to get reliable information from learned people then they discover it's written on a free for all website. I posting the info here for this user group, i have had to apologise to my source who is miffed this happened. It is likely i may not get useful information from this person in the future.
Cheers Sam.

Will do sam although, is this not a "free for all" website as well ?

I thought since you had posted it here it was public knowledge.

Jordy on UK Free also seems to have inside info and contacts with Arqiva so I was interested to see what his reaction would be.

It's also being discussed on Digital Spy.

Still, good news it does happen, even if it is MPeg 4

Sam the Aerialman

Lets say for argument sake Brougher Mountain's 7th multiplex gets channel 30 interleaved 10kw, imagine Black Mountain 5w and Carnmoney Hill 20w get the full 6 multiplexs plus the 7th mini mux each. Divis gets 8 multiplexs, 6 plus the mini mux and channel 56 interleaved 30kw.

Where do the frequencies come from?

Mike 1972

Sam the Aerialman wrote: »

Where do the frequencies come from?

SFN ?

watty

Tooth Fairy?

Peter Henderson

imagine Black Mountain 5w and Carnmoney Hill 20w get the full 6 multiplexs plus the 7th mini mux each.

Since when were the COm operators interested in these relay stations ?

That's news to me.

Tom Slick

They're fill-in txs in a large urban area, why wouldn't they be interested?

Sam the Aerialman

Peter Henderson wrote: »

Since when were the COm operators interested in these relay stations ?

The COM operators have decided to take up interest in 8/9 sites UK wide. Londonderry is supposed to be one as to is Cambret Hill. I'm merely reading between the lines, they keep refering to Black Mountain as requiring a 7th multiplex. These further documents i received mention several times that some switchover areas particularly Northern Ireland post DSO they were "seeking to look at areas in gross population that may be under served with the current DPSA" They suggest that they won't go back on Post switchover areas so these new COM additions are in the next 2 years.

Carnmoney Hill as we know now is an 'Island site' now it's out on it's on, Line/ DSAT fed for BBC analogues. A 3 channel partial SFN using Divis as the reference point and line feeding the other two 23, 26, 29.

Leaving PSB 21, 24, 27 Divis. 43, 46, 50 Carnmoney. 42, 45, 49 BM. That's leaves you two additional channels for the mini-mux channel 41 at BM. Channel 40 at Carnmoney. Divis gets it's 7th mini-mux on channel 48 and that would leave channel 56 for the 8th interleaved channel.

icdg

Peter Henderson wrote: »

Will do sam although, is this not a "free for all" website as well ?

I thought since you had posted it here it was public knowledge.

Jordy on UK Free also seems to have inside info and contacts with Arqiva so I was interested to see what his reaction would be.

It's also being discussed on Digital Spy.

Sam, if its here its public knowledge although that's not to say what Peter did was right.

If someone asks you not to make something public, don't post it here. Read access to Boards is available to unregistered users and its indexed by Google.

Sponge Bob

Normal protocol is to reference Digital Spy or AVforums where a discussion originated there before kicking off here and a poster on those particular forums should maintain the same courtesy protocol if they rely on a discussion here to kick one off over there.

Sam the Aerialman

icdg wrote: »

Sam, if its here its public knowledge although that's not to say what Peter did was right.

If someone asks you not to make something public, don't post it here. Read access to Boards is available to unregistered users and its indexed by Google.

That was not the issue at all i do not mind information in the public domain.
I'm going to make no secret of the fact i do not like or trust the UKFREETV website. I received a twitter message from UKFREETV with the exact posting i made here, at the end of the day if i want the information on UKFREETV then i'll post it myself. I feel mis-leading and in-accurate information is portrayed on that particular website.

I sourced the information, i posted it here for the learned members of this user group and did not expect to find it posted elsewhere. Myself and Peter have communicated via personal message and there is no problem.

I would prefare to discuss the topic at hand.

Peter Henderson

icdg wrote: »

Sam, if its here its public knowledge although that's not to say what Peter did was right.

If someone asks you not to make something public, don't post it here. Read access to Boards is available to unregistered users and its indexed by Google.

I've already apologised to Sam via a PM icdg so I assume he's accepted it even though he hasn't replied back.

Hadn't realised you felt that way about UKFree Sam. I thought it was OK even though some of the switchover dates do appear somewhat inaccurate (the DSO for Divis for example, is still listed as March 31 2013).

I think the coverage maps are useful though (don't know any other sites with these for NI) along with the technical info.

Jordy's predictiions about the BBC DAB expansion have all come true, so I would tentatively assume his list of sites re the future expansion of the DAB commercial multiplex along with the proposed list of sites for Digital One to broadcast in the province is true also.

He does seem to have contacts in high places as well Sam so I was interested to see what he made of the RTE mini mux (would be good if it was confirmed by other sources, not that I disbelieve you of course !).

Northern Ireland apparently does stand out as an area that is particularly prone to Freeview Lite transmitters post DSO dso, so an exapansion by the COM operators is welcome, especially in this area which is officially covered by Carnmoney Hill, even though I get reasonable Freeview reception from Divis(I would imagine this'll be perfect after DSO).

Derry City definitely needs to have a full Freeview service since it's NI's second city. I'm not sure how well Limavady covers it.

Sam the Aerialman

Peter Henderson wrote: »

I've already apologised to Sam via a PM icdg so I assume he's accepted it even though he hasn't replied back.

Check your Private message box - I replied at 08:00 this morning.

Peter Henderson

Sam the Aerialman wrote: »

Check your Private message box - I replied at 08:00 this morning.

No problems Sam, I've just read the message.

Unfortunately there are no notifications when someone replies on this forum

fat-tony

Peter Henderson wrote: »

No problems Sam, I've just read the message.

Unfortunately there are no notifications when someone replies on this forum

Just click on the "follow thread" button and you will get email when someone posts:)

Peter Henderson

fat-tony wrote: »

Just click on the "follow thread" button and you will get email when someone posts:)

Thanks Tony.

ftakeith

Peter Henderson wrote: »

Thanks Tony.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-11989316
half way down the article for news on 'the irish news' article

Peter Henderson

Now officially confirmed

http://www.dtg.org.uk/dtg/press_release.php?id=27

20 December 2010, London -- The Digital TV Group (DTG), the industry association for digital television in the UK, has welcomed the joint UK and Ireland government statement on the transmission of RTÉ (Raidió Teilifís Éireann) and TG4 (Teilifís na Gaeilge) services in Northern Ireland, which will see a new Irish multiplex carried in Northern Ireland using the technical standard at the core of the UK's Freeview HD service.

reslfj

Peter Henderson wrote: »

Now officially confirmed

http://www.dtg.org.uk/dtg/press_release.php?id=27

Some info on the expected bit rate and robustness:

http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/forums/showpost.php?p=46713379&postcount=61

A 12.45 Mbps mux cannot carry 2 HD + 1 SD channel - or ?.

Lars

watty

Why announce this which won't happen before 1st Nov 2012, now, 4 months before the full Launch of Saorview?

Someone is politically inept.

I'd be very surprised if there is a 3rd Mux (free) added to existing two PSB mux for BBC & ITV here.

I predict a lot of gnashing of teeth and wailing when folk here told to get a Freesat Dish.

Also who is paying for it? The use of a multiplex isn't free.
Where does the extra channel come from?
Is it just the Main site of Strabane & Divis or also the associated transmitters in those areas which will have DTT only from 2012.

Eventually RTE1, RTE2 and TG4 will be HD. If they are going to use Saorsat or other Off air TS feed of Irish TV rather re-encoding a separate MPEG4 feed how does this work?

Sam Russell

My reading of it is that it will be DVB-T2. And that they will make sure that FreeviewHD kit will work with Saorview. Now there is something, as currently FreeviewHD is not guaranteed to work with Saorview. Either a change from RTENL or a new upgrade to FreeviewHD spec to cover the cracks between the standards. Good news, I'd say.

Sponge Bob

Dunno what is going on here, not that I object in any way.

I would observe that with RTÉ abandoning a universal DTT roullout they should have a bit of free spectrum, reserved for Relays that will no longer be built, and should cede all of this to the DTG group along the border.

In fact there is nothing untoward about the DTG entirely taking over some of these border relays that supply RTE analogue and using them as NI relays if they are more optimally sited than the current NI ones.

Moville comes to mind for the north coast. Clermont for S Armagh and S Down although they would have to share that one

Aidan!

good i could do with more BBC SERVICES!!

Digifriendly

With present high pressure ROI DTT signals booming through loud and clear here in Moira and with probable blacking out of some sports programmes on RTE via Freeview (as irish news article suggests) I'm happy to stick with Saorview across the border!

SPAWKER

Just after being announced on the Six One News that RTE and TG4 will be available on Freeview in the north in 2012.
That they will build a cheap Mux with Freeview and it should cover 85% of the population.

dowtchaboy

Nothing on the RTE news site but I found this:

Cross border reception for RTÉ and TG4
By Julian Clover
Published: December 20, 2010 15.38 Europe/London
Northern Ireland is to gain a new low power digital TV multiplex for the carriage of television services from the Irish Republic. In a joint statement issued by the British and Irish governments it was announced that RTÉ 1, RTÉ 2 and the Irish language TG4 would be made available to around 90% of the province
As part of the Good Friday agreement signed in April 1998 the UK Government agreed to the construction of a new transmitter at Divis for the reception of TG4 in the North. This combined with analogue overspill from transmitters in Ireland has given the channel reception in 60% of homes.
The new multiplex will broadcast in DVB-T2, the same parameters used by Freeview HD, meaning that unlike standard definition Freeview receivers the devices can be used on both sides of the border. The additional capacity within the multiplex will enable the carriage of the two principal RTE channels.
A not for profit company will be established by RTÉ and TG4 to run the multiplex which will be licensed under the UK’s Wireless Telegraphy Act of 2006 by Ofcom at the request of the UK Government. Other elements of the operation will be put out to a competitive tender.
The two administrations are working together on the co-ordinated switch off of analogue signals that will take place in Northern Ireland and Ireland at the end of 2012.

source:
http://www.broadbandtvnews.com/2010/12/20/cross-border-reception-for-rte-and-tg4/

Peter Henderson

a new low power digital TV multiplex

I wonder what "low power" means ?

Other elements of the operation will be put out to a competitive tender.

What are the "other elements" of the operation ?

dowtchaboy

Here's a bit more - sorry haven't time to cut out the less interesting bits:

Digital TV Group welcomes joint Ireland and UK statement on the availability of RTÉ and TG4 services on Freeview HD receivers in Northern Ireland

20 December 2010

The Digital TV Group (DTG), the industry association for digital television in the UK, has welcomed the joint UK and Ireland government statement on the transmission of RTÉ (Raidió Teilifís Éireann) and TG4 (Teilifís na Gaeilge) services in Northern Ireland, which will see a new Irish multiplex carried in Northern Ireland using the technical standard at the core of the UK’s Freeview HD service.

http://www.dodsmonitoring.com/downloads/WMS/WMS_2010/December_20_2010/RTETG4.doc

The DTG has worked closely with the UK Department for Culture, Media and Sport, Department for Business Innovation and Skills, Ofcom and the Irish Department of Communications, Energy and Natural Resources to ensure that the widespread availability of the Irish language television station TG4 in Northern Ireland continues post digital switchover. DTG representatives met with the Irish Government on Friday to discuss the technical interoperability of the new multiplex.

In addition to carrying TG4, this multiplex, which will be part of the UK digital terrestrial television (DTT) system, will carry RTÉ 1 and RTÉ 2. It is hoped that this will further increase the coverage of these channels in Northern Ireland, enabling approximately 90% of the population in Northern Ireland to receive their services on a free-to-air basis, either through overspill or via the new multiplex.

The DTG looks forward to working with Digital UK and Freeview to deliver clear consumer messaging to ensure that Northern Irish viewers understand that integrated digital televisions, set-top boxes and digital television recorders carrying the Freeview HD logo will receive these services. The DTG will also work with all stakeholders to ensure the same receivers can receive overspill of Republic of Ireland services, which use the Nordig specification and MPEG 4.

The DVB-T2 mode chosen for the new multiplex is QPSK rate 5/6, details of which are defined in the D-Book. DTG Testing, the industry’s interoperability test house, already tests that Freeview HD receivers functionally operate in this mode and the DTG RF Group has been asked to define performance parameters with a view to including these in future test requirements.

"The DTG welcomes this announcement and the strong progress that the UK and Irish Governments and regulators have made on delivering RTÉ and TG4 services to Northern Irish viewers,” said Richard Lindsay-Davies, Director General, Digital TV Group.

"The new multiplex will deliver additional services to 90% of the population in Northern Ireland on a free-to-air basis and as the multiplex will use an existing D-Book mode for functional testing, we are confident that all DTG tested Freeview HD products will work with this mode. We look forward to working closely with Digital UK, Freeview, Dmol and Intellect and CAI, the trade bodies for consumer electronics and aerial installers, to ensure viewers in Northern Ireland make informed purchasing decisions and buy television equipment that we know will interoperate with cross-border signals.”

The DTG will provide members with further technical interoperability information in early 2011.

For media enquiries contact: Matthew Walker, Head of Communications, DTG: mwalker@dtg.org.uk

sorry - just noticed that Peter Henderson had already flagged up this report!

lawhec

It looks like the pieces from the opening post on this thread are being put together on this one, and is planned to become an actual reality.