selecting the right bull!

defadman

currently i am using a charlaois bull (HWN). He is an easy calving bull and breeds nice calves. however, I feel i could breed beither calves using another bull yet, still retainig easy calving traits. I was considering using the new bull by NCBC cottage devon. do ye have any sugggestions to which bull i should choose. I want charlaois bulls only though!

vanderbadger

defadman wrote: »

currently i am using a charlaois bull (HWN). He is an easy calving bull and breeds nice calves. however, I feel i could breed beither calves using another bull yet, still retainig easy calving traits. I was considering using the new bull by NCBC cottage devon. do ye have any sugggestions to which bull i should choose. I want charlaois bulls only though!

in fairnes it should be hard to beat him, cottage devon, on paper at least he is a super bull, have a purebred bull this year from roundhill doc (rhi ) and he seems an nice calf, have the same cow just ai'd to cloverfield excellent (cxy), both are young bulls so maybe i should have gone with something more tried and tested but sure anyway

Shauny2010

Cottage devon has impressive figures all right. there was a purebred offspring of his at the last Charolais sale in Ennis last month
To me he looked small although nicely made but small.

pakalasa

OP. I'm in the same boat as yerself. I've been using HWN all along. He's a great bull, in fairness. I used Pirate (PTE) once or twice also.
I used CF85 too last year, but no calves born yet. His figures are very similar to HWN.

I see the new proofs for Dec 2010 are up now on www.icbf.com.
Cottage Devon is coming at 18.7% calving (40% rel). That makes him hard calving in my books. Pity, great looking bull.

CF61 is a decent looking bull too, easy calving and good on maternal side of things.

leg wax

tullygarley alibaba is throwing some fantastic stock his code is s741 but i dont know how he is for calving difficulty.

bogman_bass

Shauny2010 wrote: »

Cottage devon has impressive figures all right. there was a purebred offspring of his at the last Charolais sale in Ennis last month
To me he looked small although nicely made but small.

unless it came from the same farm I'd question that. he only satrted producing straws in april or may this year

Shauny2010

bogman_bass wrote: »

unless it came from the same farm I'd question that. he only satrted producing straws in april or may this year

Im afraid your right, the bull I was looking at was out of Cottage scott

pakalasa

You know Goldstar Echo (GHX), another Texan-Gie son might turn out to be a better bull than Cottage Devon. He's easier calving at 11.8% (37% Rel). He's out of a CF52 cow too.

Both bulls are available from NCBC.

adne

pakalasa wrote: »

OP. I'm in the same boat as yerself. I've been using HWN all along. He's a great bull, in fairness. I used Pirate (PTE) once or twice also.
I used CF85 too last year, but no calves born yet. His figures are very similar to HWN.

I see the new proofs for Dec 2010 are up now on www.icbf.com.
Cottage Devon is coming at 18.7% calving (40% rel). That makes him hard calving in my books. Pity, great looking bull.

CF61 is a decent looking bull too, easy calving and good on maternal side of things.

Is HWN gone, he was a cracking bull. Let me know how the CF85s turns out.....

vanderbadger

pakalasa wrote: »

OP. I'm in the same boat as yerself. I've been using HWN all along. He's a great bull, in fairness. I used Pirate (PTE) once or twice also.
I used CF85 too last year, but no calves born yet. His figures are very similar to HWN.

I see the new proofs for Dec 2010 are up now on www.icbf.com.
Cottage Devon is coming at 18.7% calving (40% rel). That makes him hard calving in my books. Pity, great looking bull.

CF61 is a decent looking bull too, easy calving and good on maternal side of things.

do you sell them as weanlings Pak? would you not try a few blue bulls since you are using ai anyway and the market seems to be keener on the muscle cattle?

pakalasa

vanderbadger wrote: »

do you sell them as weanlings Pak? would you not try a few blue bulls since you are using ai anyway and the market seems to be keener on the muscle cattle?

I tried one BB last year, FHZ on a black Lim cow. Just as a test really. Weanling bull, only average to be honest. I reckon you need a bit of muscle on the cow side too. I notice, the 2010/11 NCBC catalogue recommends using him on 3/4 Lim cows. I've used him on a few more cows this year, so we'll see.
I think to get the really top BB weanlings you need to be using the likes of OVO, BYU,DEP etc. These are all hard calving, not ideal for a part-timer.

Hard to beat the charolais cross. That's what i like about the HWN calves, even if they dont turn out fancy. They've always great frames and look like they will grow away to big weights. Just what the Irish market wants.
As far as I know, HWN is still going strong.

vanderbadger

pakalasa wrote: »

I tried one BB last year, FHZ on a black Lim cow. Just as a test really. Weanling bull, only average to be honest. I reckon you need a bit of muscle on the cow side too. I notice, the 2010/11 NCBC catalogue recommends using him on 3/4 Lim cows. I've used him on a few more cows this year, so we'll see.
I think to get the really top BB weanlings you need to be using the likes of OVO, BYU,DEP etc. These are all hard calving, not ideal for a part-timer.

Hard to beat the charolais cross. That's what i like about the HWN calves, even if they dont turn out fancy. They've always great frames and look like they will grow away to big weights. Just what the Irish market wants.
As far as I know, HWN is still going strong.

tried a few last year as well
have 2 blues so far outta dovea bull bbq, very easy calfer now, didnt have to go near cows, they are nice calves, have a good bit more muscle than a char calf so will be interesting to see how they go

bogman_bass

adne wrote: »

Is HWN gone, he was a cracking bull. Let me know how the CF85s turns out.....

no he can still be got.

great bull. very under rated IMO

Muckit

Had a '06 PB char heifer calve to HWN last february. Hard calved I found, big long calf, he was half reared. Unfortunately after a week of stomach tubing and messing he died, gutted:rolleyes: Would have made some bull I reckon.

As oul' lad says, 'where you've livestock, you'I have dead stock'

defadman

i pick charlaois because they are easier calved. too many use belgian blues thinkingf theyll have a great calf, when more than likely they will have a caesarian section and thats 200 euro down, straight away. the operation is not always succesful awell with various complications and this causes reduced fertility in the cow.

leg wax

defadman wrote: »

i pick charlaois because they are easier calved. too many use belgian blues thinkingf theyll have a great calf, when more than likely they will have a caesarian section and thats 200 euro down, straight away. the operation is not always succesful awell with various complications and this causes reduced fertility in the cow.

please talk about something that you know about.iwas cross when i saw this but then i saw that you started the thread selecting the right bull now i see you really do need help.

ellewood

hes right, i know you are calving blues with great sucess and fair play to you but its not for everybody
charolais like him which are easy calving and have great figures are what most part time farmers should be using - live calf every year from a handy cow i sold 2 calves from him today born mid march 490 kgs and 940.00 in the bank each not bad going or a blue bull and if everything's not 100% you have a far greater chance of sections ect and you get the magic 1000 for em i know which system will leave more profit more often...
in 08 that bull was 3rd on list for sbv and most of the young bulls above him now have low reliability - ive used him a lot last few years but im like the poster i taught i could do better so ive used some klu and ada this year so weel see?

leg wax

ellewood wrote: »

hes right, i know you are calving blues with great sucess and fair play to you but its not for everybody
charolais like him which are easy calving and have great figures are what most part time farmers should be using - live calf every year from a handy cow i sold 2 calves from him today born mid march 490 kgs and 940.00 in the bank each not bad going or a blue bull and if everything's not 100% you have a far greater chance of sections ect and you get the magic 1000 for em i know which system will leave more profit more often...
in 08 that bull was 3rd on list for sbv and most of the young bulls above him now have low reliability - ive used him a lot last few years but im like the poster i taught i could do better so ive used some klu and ada this year so weel see?

what would the % figure be for sections on crossbred stock bb v ch, takeing out all pedigree on both sides and stock that are especialy breed for showing as in the winter fair cattle.also what % of calves born are dead for both breeds.

ellewood

dont know % but hwn is about 7% calving diff which means that 7% of scores back to icbf are with a calving score of 3 or 4 so he will have some calving problems they havent bred a bull yet that will give 100% no calving problems

im not saying charolais or limo or simm are all going to be easy calving but if youre not 100% on top of youre game the blues are going to be harder calved ie if you have a cow incalf to hwn and she is a condition score of 4 and shes given ad lib silage for the winter before she calves she probobly will still calf unaided no problem do the same for a cow incalf to a bb and what do you get?

any farmers i know using a charolais bull and most are stock bulls have very few calving problems and some are bulls with hard calving in their breeding ie cf52

defadman

finally, a person talking some common sense. i agree 100% with you. i am a part time farmer and charlaois bulls suit my regime far better. All you need to do is ask your local vet. 9 times out of ten he will discourage you using blues. It is no wonder that charlaois are the most popular breed throughout europe!

leg wax

ellewood wrote: »

dont know % but hwn is about 7% calving diff which means that 7% of scores back to icbf are with a calving score of 3 or 4 so he will have some calving problems they havent bred a bull yet that will give 100% no calving problems

im not saying charolais or limo or simm are all going to be easy calving but if youre not 100% on top of youre game the blues are going to be harder calved ie if you have a cow incalf to hwn and she is a condition score of 4 and shes given ad lib silage for the winter before she calves she probobly will still calf unaided no problem do the same for a cow incalf to a bb and what do you get?

any farmers i know using a charolais bull and most are stock bulls have very few calving problems and some are bulls with hard calving in their breeding ie cf52

this is my point put a cow in the same condition with a selected blue bull like sfl she will do the same you can select a charolais bull by code for easy scores why not a blue,they are no different than ch with hard bulls why dont you all use sgo on your cows, its like me i would not use ovo on my cows.

vanderbadger

defadman wrote: »

finally, a person talking some common sense. i agree 100% with you. i am a part time farmer and charlaois bulls suit my regime far better. All you need to do is ask your local vet. 9 times out of ten he will discourage you using blues. It is no wonder that charlaois are the most popular breed throughout europe!

by all means go with the charolais, we have bred nothing else on this farm for years and couldnt fault them but have 3 blues now from ai just really caus i wanted to try something different, the first ones ever on this farm, all unassisted, calved alot easier than some chars from our own bull so I wouldnt tar all blues with the same brush. have another 4 or five cows to calf to blues also and 2 of them are first timer calvers..im also a part time farmer and I dont need hassle with tough calving but so far ive been impressed with the and am considering buy a blue bull myself so at some stage

ellewood

leg wax wrote: »

this is my point put a cow in the same condition with a selected blue bull like sfl she will do the same you can select a charolais bull by code for easy scores why not a blue,they are no different than ch with hard bulls why dont you all use sgo on your cows, its like me i would not use ovo on my cows.

im not disagreeing with you at all the only point im making is that with hwm you can have a very good calf with very few calving problems still have a good heavy weanling to sell plus his maternal traits are excellent if you get a hfr calf which is same for blues lim or sim ect- if you select the right bull for calving traits whichever breed it does help, the point im making if you use hwn or the likes it makes it much easier to manage ie not seperating and feeding to condition score not feeding hay all the things lads with blues say they have to do to reduce calving difficulty put em all in calf to hwn - feed them all the same - silage ad lib 1 shed 1 feed passage ect no bother, calf no bother, good weanling no bother basically you wont have the flashey weanling but you will have weanlings that havent cost a fortune to get to that point and you have an easy system that leaves a profit

leg wax

defadman wrote: »

finally, a person talking some common sense. i agree 100% with you. i am a part time farmer and charlaois bulls suit my regime far better. All you need to do is ask your local vet. 9 times out of ten he will discourage you using blues. It is no wonder that charlaois are the most popular breed throughout europe!

you use a easy ch bull why. dose it not jump into your head to use a easy blue.

leg wax

ellewood wrote: »

im not disagreeing with you at all the only point im making is that with hwm you can have a very good calf with very few calving problems still have a good heavy weanling to sell plus his maternal traits are excellent if you get a hfr calf which is same for blues lim or sim ect- if you select the right bull for calving traits whichever breed it does help, the point im making if you use hwn or the likes it makes it much easier to manage ie not seperating and feeding to condition score not feeding hay all the things lads with blues say they have to do to reduce calving difficulty put em all in calf to hwn - feed them all the same - silage ad lib 1 shed 1 feed passage ect no bother, calf no bother, good weanling no bother basically you wont have the flashey weanling but you will have weanlings that havent cost a fortune to get to that point and you have an easy system that leaves a profit

but you are still implying that if we went head to head with hwm v sfl that you would have fewer problems,sfl is suitable for heifers .sorry the bottle of merlot is kicking in enjoying this anyway.

ellewood

Hwn
sbv 5 star E135 99%rel
wean 5 star
beef 5 star

sfl
sbv 3 star E90
wean 2 star
beef 1 star

on paper hwn is just as easy calving but a better bull, but hey thats on paper real life could be different..
enjoy the merlo

pakalasa

Well, great to see people having faith in the ICBF figures.
I was looking through the Dec 2010 proofs and one thing struck me.
The BB bull DEP has very good Maternal Calving. How his Direct calving is high at 20.53% but Maternal Calving is 7.09% (71% Rel). That's 90% within the breed and 34% across breeds.

It would be a great way of breeding 3/4 BB's by normal calving. First breed easy calving cows to DEP and then use the heifers for breeding.

Anybody have DEP heifers?


Oh, and another thing. BB's are very common down in Wexford (Legwax & co). Wouldn't have anything to do with all the fine weather would it? Different climate altogether on the exposed west coast.

vanderbadger

pakalasa wrote: »

Well, great to see people having faith in the ICBF figures.
I was looking through the Dec 2010 proofs and one thing struck me.
The BB bull DEP has very good Maternal Calving. How his Direct calving is high at 20.53% but Maternal Calving is 7.09% (71% Rel). That's 90% within the breed and 34% across breeds.

It would be a great way of breeding 3/4 BB's by normal calving. First breed easy calving cows to DEP and then use the heifers for breeding.

Anybody have DEP heifers?


Oh, and another thing. BB's are very common down in Wexford (Legwax & co). Wouldn't have anything to do with all the fine weather would it? Different climate altogether on the exposed west coast.

i would take the advice of ai man before the figures

bogman_bass

Rather pull a blue calf than a char.
a ch is all bone whyile the blue is muscle ant at least that will "give" when pulling

pakalasa

bogman_bass wrote: »

Rather pull a blue calf than a char.
a ch is all bone whyile the blue is muscle ant at least that will "give" when pulling

That's true. I don't think restricting the cow for 6 weeks pre-calving will help that much either. It's the fleshyness (??) that you're taking off the calf, not the bone.
That's why HWN is so easy calving, calves are very long rather than wide at the hips, if you know what I mean.

Bigbird1

ellewood wrote: »

hes right, i know you are calving blues with great sucess and fair play to you but its not for everybody
charolais like him which are easy calving and have great figures are what most part time farmers should be using - live calf every year from a handy cow i sold 2 calves from him today born mid march 490 kgs and 940.00 in the bank each not bad going or a blue bull and if everything's not 100% you have a far greater chance of sections ect and you get the magic 1000 for em i know which system will leave more profit more often...
in 08 that bull was 3rd on list for sbv and most of the young bulls above him now have low reliability - ive used him a lot last few years but im like the poster i taught i could do better so ive used some klu and ada this year so weel see?

This is great weight for your calves what type cows were dey from and were dey getting much meal..

On bull selection i have very good success with the charolais MOZART(MZT) hes not too hard calved and they have super bone and shape,but like HWN there was never much about him, i think AI companys have to boast about certain bulls from a marketing point of view. Limkiln bosco(KIB) is a bull they talked a lot about and it likely helped there sales,Nice stuff from this bull hard calved tho at 14.5%. CF85 meant to be breeding very well too.
As for Cottage Devon theres nothin from him yet but his sire Texan-G was not a hard calved bull,but his dams sire is oscar who was more on difficult side,,Outstanding looking bull but Time will tell

Bodacious

bogman_bass wrote: »

Rather pull a blue calf than a char.
a ch is all bone whyile the blue is muscle ant at least that will "give" when pulling

I know every bull has them but saw one of the biggest monster calves i ever saw out out of HWN. I dont agree with giving a Chr or bb to a maiden but neighbour gave HWN to a 3 year old AAx black white head heifer and it was a C section job but they decided to take him they broke 2 jacks and he a brute ...dead as a dodo .. turns out grand mother of the heifer was a culard charolais

Bizzum

Fom me the real advantage of using AI is being able match individual cows with a variety of bull breeds, with the aim of optimising production from each cow.
With this in mind, some cows will benefit from the use of BB and others from Charolais. Its hard to really compare like with like here.
There are many considerations, eg. Cow type, Age, Breed. and the ultimate market you are trying to supply to.
I'v used both extensively and see an place for both breeds, but I wouldn't ger too hung up on just two breeds either. I see plenty of scope to use other breeds too again depending on cow type, target market etc.
I suppose thats the beauty of AI, we have world class genetics at our fingertips ready to be used to bring the best out of any cow.

cattle man

started using fhz and elz belgian blue bull this year on red limousin cows wonderin do any ye lads have calves off them and what they like.:)

cattle man

ellewood wrote: »

im not disagreeing with you at all the only point im making is that with hwm you can have a very good calf with very few calving problems still have a good heavy weanling to sell plus his maternal traits are excellent if you get a hfr calf which is same for blues lim or sim ect- if you select the right bull for calving traits whichever breed it does help, the point im making if you use hwn or the likes it makes it much easier to manage ie not seperating and feeding to condition score not feeding hay all the things lads with blues say they have to do to reduce calving difficulty put em all in calf to hwn - feed them all the same - silage ad lib 1 shed 1 feed passage ect no bother, calf no bother, good weanling no bother basically you wont have the flashey weanling but you will have weanlings that havent cost a fortune to get to that point and you have an easy system that leaves a profit

doesnt make much sense what your sayin there if a cow is over fat she will have calvin propelms no mater what bull is in her. also what kind of a calf will ya have out of a black cow using HWN a mousey calf not wort nothing much better off using a blue on the likes of that cow for example. not every cow is the same so dont use thet same bull on every cow

cattle man

ellewood wrote: »

hes right, i know you are calving blues with great sucess and fair play to you but its not for everybody
charolais like him which are easy calving and have great figures are what most part time farmers should be using - live calf every year from a handy cow i sold 2 calves from him today born mid march 490 kgs and 940.00 in the bank each not bad going or a blue bull and if everything's not 100% you have a far greater chance of sections ect and you get the magic 1000 for em i know which system will leave more profit more often...
in 08 that bull was 3rd on list for sbv and most of the young bulls above him now have low reliability - ive used him a lot last few years but im like the poster i taught i could do better so ive used some klu and ada this year so weel see?

seems unrealistic weights if not you would want to ring justin mccarthy and get on the better farm programme and show them a thing or two;)

pakalasa

Justin McCarthy made a very good pt in this weeks Journal about where breeding is going on the suckler cow side of things. Everyone is obsessed with getting the €1000 weanling and no one is really looking at the bottom line, profit!.
It's like in Dairying a few years back when everyone was boasting about the high milkers they had. Now it's all profit and the cross-bred cow and extended grazing.

How many here even know their profit / hectare. Nett profit, that is, when ALL is taking out. How many calve their cows down at 2 years and have a calf within every 365 days. I know, I dont. I notice that even the replacement heifers I have from maternal bulls are all much bigger then the original cows.

ellewood

pakalasa wrote: »

Justin McCarthy made a very good pt in this weeks Journal about where breeding is going on the suckler cow side of things. Everyone is obsessed with getting the €1000 weanling and no one is really looking at the bottom line, profit!.
It's like in Dairying a few years back when everyone was boasting about the high milkers they had. Now it's all profit and the cross-bred cow and extended grazing.

How many here even know their profit / hectare. Nett profit, that is, when ALL is taking out. How many calve their cows down at 2 years and have a calf within every 365 days. I know, I dont. I notice that even the replacement heifers I have from maternal bulls are all much bigger then the original cows.

my point exatly with hwn a alf every year that leaves a good profit they mightn't look the fanciest or have any double mucle - or they might be grey! but consistantly weigh and more importantly pay for themselves and their mothers and leave a nice prifit without too much hassle

snowman707

pakalasa wrote: »

Justin McCarthy made a very good pt in this weeks Journal about where breeding is going on the suckler cow side of things. Everyone is obsessed with getting the €1000 weanling and no one is really looking at the bottom line, profit!.
It's like in Dairying a few years back when everyone was boasting about the high milkers they had. Now it's all profit and the cross-bred cow and extended grazing.

How many here even know their profit / hectare. Nett profit, that is, when ALL is taking out. How many calve their cows down at 2 years and have a calf within every 365 days. I know, I dont. I notice that even the replacement heifers I have from maternal bulls are all much bigger then the original cows.

yeah read that article and agree with your comments 100%

defadman

however farming today is more about pride than profit, until beef prices reach that of the level set by the rest of the e.u, we will stay in the one position and irish beef will suffer if we dont advance

Muckit

I agree. Alot of Irish farmers are more obsessed with having bigger calves than the neighbour (or neighbouring mart pen) than seeing the big picture.

Perhaps I'm wrong but euro for euro (spend vs made) I reckon I'm not far off the net amount lads have in their pockets from 'pampered' cattle. Never got too hung up on alot of meal feeding, 'blue' genetics or an intense dosing programme.

Juniorhurler

I'm using a blue stock bull on 45 sucklers (Blonde cows out of limousins out of british friesians mainly). I have had two sections in three seasons with this guy. His top price was for a bull weighing 390kilos and brought €1375. He has also brought calves that make about €2 per kilo. His numbers are below. I paid €3000 for him and as a part time farmer he is invaluable as I am not trying to detect heats for an A.I man. His numbers are below. personally I think if you want a calf per cow per year you need a stock bull when you are a part time enterprise.


Within Breed Index Data rel Across Breed
Suckler Beef Value € 91.00 46%
Beef Value
Calving Traits € 7.00 43%
Weanling Exports € 76.00 78%
Beef Carcass € 104.00 46%
Replacement Value
Milk & Fertility € -225.00 12%
Calf Quality € 268.00 52%
Other Key Traits
Difficulty Calving 1.66% 75%
Docility .16 16%

pakalasa

Juniorhurler wrote: »

I'm using a blue stock bull on 45 sucklers (Blonde cows out of limousins out of british friesians mainly). I have had two sections in three seasons with this guy. His top price was for a bull weighing 390kilos and brought €1375. He has also brought calves that make about €2 per kilo. His numbers are below. I paid €3000 for him and as a part time farmer he is invaluable as I am not trying to detect heats for an A.I man. His numbers are below. personally I think if you want a calf per cow per year you need a stock bull when you are a part time enterprise.


Within Breed Index Data rel Across Breed
Suckler Beef Value € 91.00 46%
Beef Value
Calving Traits € 7.00 43%
Weanling Exports € 76.00 78%
Beef Carcass € 104.00 46%
Replacement Value
Milk & Fertility € -225.00 12%
Calf Quality € 268.00 52%
Other Key Traits
Difficulty Calving 1.66% 75%
Docility .16 16%

How do you manage the C-sections if you are a part-time farmer?
Very easy calving figures for a BB bull, by the way!

Juniorhurler

pakalasa wrote: »

How do you manage the C-sections if you are a part-time farmer?
Very easy calving figures for a BB bull, by the way!

Yeah grand easy figures pakalasa. TBH my work is only 3 miles from home and I am gone from 8.45 til about 4 so I am almost full time farming part time working. I have just been lucky to be about when they were needed pakalasa. You may have guessed that I am a teacher so I aim to calve most of the cows in August so that I am about full time. I also have a broadband camera so that I can view the calving box from any location on my phone or on any computer with web access. The fact that the blonde cross cows are roomy also helps the ease of calving.

Andy Gray

Some very interesting reading here. Suckler man myself and obsessed with breeding and the various AI bulls available. A few questions.

1. How hard calving are some of these blues e.g. BYU, OVO, DEP? Have a very good 3/4 bred Limo cow by EPN. Never seen her calve any of her 6 calves. Was thinkin of throwin a BYU on her. Should she be able to calve him?

2. Has anyone used the Char CF85 yet? I know he's not hard calving but is he all he's supposed to be? These new bulls Cottage Devon and Goldstar Echo look very promising.

3. The simmentals are very underrated in my opinion. May not have shape of Char or BB but will far outweigh and grow either. Sold a Simm weanling in Nov. By bova bull MIF. 8 months selling. Weighed 515 kgs and made 925 euro. Sold Char same day by NCBC bull SAI. Was only 2 weeks younger than Simm but was 100 kgs lighter. Granted SAI is a more maternal type Char but thats a big difference. If this Simm had been a month older and sold earlier then he would have made the E2 kg as the market was stronger in Oct. Thats ur 1000 euro weanling with no calving difficulty or general hassle.

4. Is anybody tapping into what is the ever growing market for good replacement heifers? With so many suckler men using all blues then there will be a shortage of good R grade replacement heifers. I'll probably be shot down on this but I think this black Limo from the friesian herd is a waste of time. Too narrow and stone mad!!!

Would like to hear people's thoughts.

pakalasa

Andy -
On the Simmentals, I have a few coming through now as replacements. These were bred from my best cows, that were lacking a bit of milk, mainly because they have a lot of Limousin breeding. I used both, Hillcrest King (HKG) and Seepa Tee Jay (IS4). The HKG are average enough as weanlings but do grow away great in their second year. I heard John Shirley say this too at a Suckler Scheme seminar in Ennis Mart one night. The IS4 heifers look promising too,very quiet aswell.
Black limousin heifers are fine if they're from British Friesians. The problem is most now, have too much Holstein breeding.

Andy Gray

I'v stopped using hillcrest king for the simple reason that i sell all my bull calves as weanlings. The kings are a bit slow to mature for a weanling seller. Have a few in calf now to Seepa and also to a dovea bull Seaview Tommy. Am going to use Curaheen Vio (CQA) this year as he has the highest suckler beef value in the country and is from incredible bloodlines. He is set to be serious all rounder according to the Simmental society and he has a very high docility rating. Also easily calved. Curaheen Apostle (S978) is an embryo bull from Canada that NCBC is after buying. He's going to be one to watch for use on heifers. Have been told that the Canadian bloodlines are low birth weight and very hardy calves at birth but incredible growth rate afterwards.

Bizzum

pakalasa wrote: »

I used both, Hillcrest King (HKG) and Seepa Tee Jay (IS4). The HKG are average enough as weanlings but do grow away great in their second year.

I would have to agree with Pakalasa here.
Particularly in relation to growth rate. If you use them on cows that lack milk, they will suffer as calves and as a result as weanlings, BUT hold onto then a little longer and they really come through. Even after their first calf, with care, can improve no end and ultimately turn into super cows.

The Lim in the back breeding won't do them any harm either.

Pat the lad

Have a smashing blue coloured heifier calf after Seeview Tommy - out of a black Limo cow. I also have a few more in calf to DRU - Hopefully a few more heifiers for replacements - a neighbour had excellant weanlings & huge weights after him last year - out of Sim/Limo cows.
I only use dark coloured simmental bulls - just prefer the look of them and the calves come a better colour - IMO