What are the rules on this site for warning of a money-scamming website?

TaraFoxglove

I've been scammed out of money by an Irish website. I'd like to warn people on here if I could. Can I?

aidan_walsh

Why not tell us your story leaving out the name of the site and we'll see if it warrants naming afterwards? Or see if we can offer advise without names being mentioned?

TaraFoxglove

Actually, think I'll pass because I don't know if anyone else would be stupid enough to make the same mistake I did.

bigted2

it would be a pity if you dont tell us what happend because it might help some one to avoid the same scam

TaraFoxglove

OK, well I ordered a CD from an Irish website and paid by Paypal. Now this is where the me being stupid bit comes in. I had never used Paypal before so it'd occur me that it was strange that I was able to pay without having to register for Paypal. So, I got my receipt and realised I'd got the delivery address wrong so I contacted them and was told I'd they would ring me to change it when it was being sent out.

In the meantime, I told my (computer nerd) boyfriend about not having to register and he got me to send him the receipt e-mail. He told me he was sure it was a phishing scam but told me to e-mail it to Paypal to get them to check it. They confirmed it was a scam so I cancelled my card immediately.

So, I assumed I wouldn't be getting my CD because I had rang a few times and they seemed to be putting me off. But then I received a call from them enquiring about the correct address, so I took the opportunity to tell them about the phishing scam. Well, the guy was rather indignant, despite me telling him that Paypal had confirmed it was a phishing scam. :rolleyes: You'd think he'd be happy!

My CD arrived a few days later. What worried me though, is that because people are getting the products they ordered, they might not realise that their card details might be in the wrong hands until it's too late!

jor el

When you made the payment, did you go to www.paypal.com, or another website? You don't have to be registered to make a Payment with Paypal, you can send a one off payment by just entering your card details.

If you made the payment through Paypal, then it is not a phishing scam, though they may be selling knock-offs, or otherwise dodgy goods. The fact that the guy you spoke to on the phone said it wasn't a phishing scam, would have me questioning it at least, and not dismissing him.

TaraFoxglove

jor el wrote: »

When you made the payment, did you go to www.paypal.com, or another website? You don't have to be registered to make a Payment with Paypal, you can send a one off payment by just entering your card details.

If you made the payment through Paypal, then it is not a phishing scam, though they may be selling knock-offs, or otherwise dodgy goods. The fact that the guy you spoke to on the phone said it wasn't a phishing scam, would have me questioning it at least, and not dismissing him.

No, like I said, I emailed the email address on the receipt (service@intl.paypal.com) to spoof@paypal.com and they confirmed it was a phishing scam. Seriously, check it out. And surely, if I'm not to be dismissive of him, likewise he shouldn't be dismissive of me, especially as I had confirmation from PayPal.

old_aussie

jor el, I just rang paypal and NO you cannot make a payment without a paypal account.

If the option to "pay by paypal" is selected you will then be prompted to sign up for a paypal account. This is according to paypal Australia and then I asked the same question to the US paypal community forum and got the same answer.

If you provided you credit card details to the person who you purchased from without a paypal account , you better hope that they are a reputable person/company.

Paypal suggests cancelling the credit card or having the credit card company not process any further payments to anyone without your approval first.

Paulw

TaraFoxglove wrote: »

No, like I said, I emailed the email address on the receipt (service@intl.paypal.com) to spoof@paypal.com and they confirmed it was a phishing scam. Seriously, check it out. And surely, if I'm not to be dismissive of him, likewise he shouldn't be dismissive of me, especially as I had confirmation from PayPal.

All my PayPal receipts come from service@intl.paypal.com

TaraFoxglove

Paulw wrote: »

All my PayPal receipts come from service@intl.paypal.com

Well, that's something to worry about then. Send one of your receipts to PayPal and see what response you get.

Paulw

TaraFoxglove wrote: »

Well, that's something to worry about then. Send one of your receipts to PayPal and see what response you get.

It's nothing to worry about since it's all legitimate, and these are my normal paypal transactions. Two weeks ago I put through a transaction for almost 4k, and the receipt came from that address.

I use PayPal frequently and have never had a problem.

28064212

TaraFoxglove wrote: »

No, like I said, I emailed the email address on the receipt (service@intl.paypal.com) to spoof@paypal.com and they confirmed it was a phishing scam. Seriously, check it out. And surely, if I'm not to be dismissive of him, likewise he shouldn't be dismissive of me, especially as I had confirmation from PayPal.

service@intl.paypal.com is definitely a legitimate address that paypal use

However, it's very easy to make an email appear to be from that address, but actually be from somewhere else. Did you email the address to spoof@paypal.com, or did you email the whole receipt? I'm guessing the latter, in which case it's the content of the email that lets Paypal know it's a scam, not the address

MacGyver

are you sure you didnt just get an automated response from the spoof address?

TaraFoxglove

28064212 wrote: »

service@intl.paypal.com is definitely a legitimate address that paypal use

However, it's very easy to make an email appear to be from that address, but actually be from somewhere else. Did you email the address to spoof@paypal.com, or did you email the whole receipt? I'm guessing the latter, in which case it's the content of the email that lets Paypal know it's a scam, not the address

Let me just check and I shall return.

EDIT: I emailed the whole receipt.

B00MSTICK

I fail to see how you've been scammed unless they're actually using your card number to buy things?

You bought and paid for a CD, which you received.
Unless you've noticed strange activity regarding your credit card then I think you're jumping the gun here.

I assume you've cancelled your CC at this point seeing as you think you've been scammed?

28064212

old_aussie wrote: »

jor el, I just rang paypal and NO you cannot make a payment without a paypal account.

If the option to "pay by paypal" is selected you will then be prompted to sign up for a paypal account. This is according to paypal Australia and then I asked the same question to the US paypal community forum and got the same answer.

If you provided you credit card details to the person who you purchased from without a paypal account , you better hope that they are a reputable person/company.

Paypal suggests cancelling the credit card or having the credit card company not process any further payments to anyone without your approval first.

Maybe it's just in the UK, but you can certainly pay without a paypal account now: https://www.paypal.com/uk/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=xpt/cps/general/OptionalAccount-outside

OP, can you post the text of the reply you got from spoof@paypal.com? This all seems slightly weird

TaraFoxglove

B00MSTICK wrote: »

I fail to see how you've been scammed unless they're actually using your card number to buy things?

You bought and paid for a CD, which you received.
Unless you've noticed strange activity regarding your credit card then I think you're jumping the gun here.

At the time, it felt like I was being fobbed off about my order so I thought I had been scammed. I haven't been scammed, and won't be because my card is now cancelled, but you are being staggeringly naive to think that because you've been sent your order that you won't be scammed. That's how the most clever scams work, according to my techie boyfriend. Send the person their item and they'll never suspect anything. Meanwhile, their card details are sold on. It's been confirmed that it was a phishing attempt, so had I not cancelled my card, I could have got a nasty shock some day. So no, definitely not jumping the gun. Is it not better to cancel my card and get a new one, then wait for suspicious activity to appear on my account?

TaraFoxglove

28064212 wrote: »

Maybe it's just in the UK, but you can certainly pay without a paypal account now: https://www.paypal.com/uk/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=xpt/cps/general/OptionalAccount-outside

OP, can you post the text of the reply you got from spoof@paypal.com? This all seems slightly weird

Here you go:

"Hello xxxxxxxxxxxxxx,

Thanks for forwarding that suspicious-looking email. You're right - it
was a phishing attempt, and we're working on stopping the fraud. By
reporting the problem, you've made a difference!

Identity thieves try to trick you into revealing your password or other
personal information through phishing emails and fake websites. To learn
more about online safety, click "Security Center" on any PayPal webpage.


Every email counts. When you forward suspicious-looking emails to
spoof@paypal.com, you help keep yourself and others safe from identity
theft.

Your account security is very important to us, so we appreciate your
extra effort.

Thanks,

PayPal"

Paulw

TaraFoxglove wrote: »

At the time, it felt like I was being fobbed off about my order so I thought I had been scammed. I haven't been scammed, and won't be because my card is now cancelled, but you are being staggeringly naive to think that because you've been sent your order that you won't be scammed. That's how the most clever scams work, according to my techie boyfriend. Send the person their item and they'll never suspect anything. Meanwhile, their card details are sold on. It's been confirmed that it was a phishing attempt, so had I not cancelled my card, I could have got a nasty shock some day. So no, definitely not jumping the gun. Is it not better to cancel my card and get a new one, then wait for suspicious activity to appear on my account?

So ... let me understand this "scam" ... you order an item, pay by paypal, and they then deliver the item ordered?

Did I miss anything there?

28064212

Paulw wrote: »

So ... let me understand this "scam" ... you order an item, pay by paypal, and they then deliver the item ordered?

Did I miss anything there?

That the OP was suspicious (for whatever reason) about it and forwarded her receipt to Paypal who confirmed that it was a phishing scam

It all seems a little bizarre. If I had to guess anything, it's a mistake on Paypal's side, as it seems, on the face of it, to be a perfectly legitimate transaction (or a very sophisticated scam)

dearg lady

Paulw wrote: »

So ... let me understand this "scam" ... you order an item, pay by paypal, and they then deliver the item ordered?

Did I miss anything there?

I think she's saying, it wasn't paid through paypal, it was just set up to look like paying through paypal, which let's face it does look a bit suspicious!!
The whole set up seems really odd tbh.

TaraFoxglove

Paulw wrote: »

So ... let me understand this "scam" ... you order an item, pay by paypal, and they then deliver the item ordered?

Did I miss anything there?

Yes, you seem to have missed the part where Paypal confirmed it was an attempted phishing scam.

And the part where I said receiving an item can be a cover.

Don't know what else to say to you really, or how to make it clearer.

Paulw

TaraFoxglove wrote: »

Yes, you seem to have missed the part where Paypal confirmed it was an attempted phishing scam.

And the part where I said receiving an item can be a cover.

Don't know what else to say to you really!

How can receiving the item be a cover??? You order an item, pay the price for an item, and receive the item. Where's the scam/cover there?

Aside from an email from paypal this seems like a normal transaction - order, payment and receipt of goods.

TaraFoxglove

28064212 wrote: »

That the OP was suspicious (for whatever reason) about it and forwarded her receipt to Paypal who confirmed that it was a phishing scam

It all seems a little bizarre. If I had to guess anything, it's a mistake on Paypal's side, as it seems, on the face of it, to be a perfectly legitimate transaction (or a very sophisticated scam)

I was suspicious initially because I wasn't asked to set up an account. That was how I found out.

And I'm sure sophicated scams DO exist!

28064212

Paulw wrote: »

How can receiving the item be a cover??? You order an item, pay the price for an item, and receive the item. Where's the scam/cover there?

If the aim is to gain credit card details. It seems unlikely though, that someone would go to those lengths

Paulw wrote: »

Aside from an email from paypal this seems like a normal transaction - order, payment and receipt of goods.

That's a pretty big 'aside'

TaraFoxglove

Paulw wrote: »

How can receiving the item be a cover??? You order an item, pay the price for an item, and receive the item. Where's the scam/cover there?

Aside from an email from paypal this seems like a normal transaction - order, payment and receipt of goods.

Right, an email from Paypal confirming a phishing scam. I don't know why that should be discounted. And as I've said, the most clever scam sites send you the item so you're none the wiser. I don't know if that was definitely is what is going on here, I just know I have confirmation from Paypal that it was a phishing attempt. Why on Earth would I ignore that?

My boyfriend told me not to bother trying to bring attention to this, to let people make their own mistakes. I'm beginning to think he was right. But I have always been gutted to hear that people have had money stolen from their accounts. THAT was why I started this thread. Sure, I got my product, and my account is safe again, but I just thought people might want to know. *shrugs*

Paulw

Did your credit card statement show the paypal transaction? Or did it show a transaction from a "bogus" site?

Paulw

28064212 wrote: »

If the aim is to gain credit card details. It seems unlikely though, that someone would go to those lengths


That's a pretty big 'aside'

I'm just trying to understand this whole thing.

I'm sure that paypal could have made a mistake with their email analysis.

There are many ways to get credit card information, and a site sending you what you order would be a hell of a weird way to go about getting your info to use for a bogus reason.

Maybe the OP should post the site that she claims is bogus??

keithclancy

Can you just post the site link OP ?

Maybe we could see for ourselves then.

TaraFoxglove

Paulw wrote: »

Maybe the OP should post the site that she claims is bogus??

I don't know if they realise either!

I think I'm just going to drop this now. Half the people on here seem to think I'm a blithering idiot so can't be bothered. I got my product, people can just fend for themselves. Laters.

28064212

TaraFoxglove wrote: »

Right, an email from Paypal confirming a phishing scam. I don't know why that should be discounted. And as I've said, the most clever scam sites send you the item so you're none the wiser. I don't know if that was definitely is what is going on here, I just know I have confirmation from Paypal that it was a phishing attempt. Why on Earth would I ignore that?

My boyfriend told me not to bother trying to bring attention to this, to let people make their own mistakes. I'm beginning to think he was right. But I have always been gutted to hear that people have had money stolen from their accounts. THAT was why I started this thread. Sure, I got my product, and my account is safe again, but I just thought people might want to know. *shrugs*

But, you might be falsely accusing a valid website, which is what we're trying to establish. I wouldn't post the link without confirmation from a mod that it's ok

TaraFoxglove

28064212 wrote: »

But, you might be falsely accusing a valid website, which is what we're trying to establish. I wouldn't post the link without confirmation from a mod that it's ok

If you'll notice from my OP and thread title, I had no intention of naming the website without being sure. :cool:

We probably can't be sure so I won't at all now.

B00MSTICK

Can you post the actual email (i.e the body of the message) that you sent on to Paypal?

Sponge Bob

Tell you what, name the site and make SURE you edit the post with the site name after no more than 1 hour and remove it, let some of us who are more expert have a look.

If a few of the more expert onces come back within the hour confirming a phish then you have not done anything wrong and need not edit but the current situation is wasting everybodys time.

TaraFoxglove

Can't I just PM someone instead?

B00MSTICK

Well it was more the email receipt rather than the actual website that put you off right?

Post up the receipt, hiding the website/your name, address etc.

TaraFoxglove

B00MSTICK wrote: »

Well it was more the email receipt rather than the actual website that put you off right?

Post up the receipt, hiding the website/your name, address etc.

Well, I've screengrabbed and edited it but have no idea how to post it here.

dudara

Moved to Online Buying & Auctions

dudara

jor el

28064212 wrote: »

Maybe it's just in the UK, but you can certainly pay without a paypal account now: https://www.paypal.com/uk/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=xpt/cps/general/OptionalAccount-outside

This is something that a seller can opt for, to accept payments from non-registered users. A little less secure than accepting payments from registered users, but up to the seller to allow it or not.

TaraFoxglove wrote: »

At the time, it felt like I was being fobbed off about my order so I thought I had been scammed. I haven't been scammed, and won't be because my card is now cancelled, but you are being staggeringly naive to think that because you've been sent your order that you won't be scammed.

You didn't answer if you had made the payment through Paypal.com or not. If you entered your details on Paypal's website, then your details are secure. Recipients of money through Paypal never get your card number. This is all handled by Paypal.

If you entered your details on another website, then that's a whole different story. You may well receive a fake Paypal receipt email after this too, which Paypal would be able to identify as a fake. If the email was looking for you to provide more detail about your card, or passwords, then it would be a phishing attempt.

If the payment was actually handled by Paypal though, then it was not a phishing attempt.

TaraFoxglove wrote:

Well, I've screengrabbed and edited it but have no idea how to post it here.

When composing a post, scroll down and you see a button labelled Manage Attachments, click that to add the image.

TaraFoxglove

jor el wrote: »

You didn't answer if you had made the payment through Paypal.com or not. If you entered your details on Paypal's website, then your details are secure. Recipients of money through Paypal never get your card number. This is all handled by Paypal.

I have answered this. It can't have been PayPal because they identified the email address on the receipt as a spoof address and a phishing attempt.

TaraFoxglove

The receipt.

28064212

TaraFoxglove wrote: »

The receipt.

That looks like a perfect paypal receipt, but of course it could be a very good imitation. At this stage, further discussion is fairly irrelevant without the website link, so PM a mod and ask if you can post the link

jor el

TaraFoxglove wrote: »

I have answered this. It can't have been PayPal because they identified the email address on the receipt as a spoof address and a phishing attempt.

If you didn't pay through the Paypal site, then obviously it's not going to be a genuine mail, and has nothing to do with Paypal at all.

How did you make the payment then, or what site was used to process it? Processing credit card details is not a trivial matter, and scammers rarely do this. Usually the scam is just to get your number, but they can't charge you. They just want to clone the card.

aN.Droid

Op, an easy way to find out whether or not the receipt email is a fake is to check the email headers.

Since you are using gmail (as per your screengrab) to find this info out just open the original email receipt, then click the little arrow next to reply and click show original. A bunch of nonsensical (to most people) information will pop up and under that your email receipt. Post the nonsensical information here while making sure to delete the instances where your own email address pops up on it.

This information can tell you where the email originated from even if a scammer has changed the email address to spoof paypals.

Also it is 100% possible too pay for a purchase on paypal without opening a paypal account as previously stated, sellers have to opt into this service themselves as it is less secure (for the seller, not the buyer)

I'm 95% sure the email you received from spoof@ was an error on there part. In the end of the day human error is always a possibility.