Problem with buyer on ebay.

Fol20

Ok i sold a dlc code for a game on ebay..the starting price was 50c and i wasnt expecting much..

Link:http://cgi.ebay.ie/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170563467901&ssPageName=STRK:MESOX:IT#ht_500wt_1156

At the end of the auction it went up to 39e.
Im guessing some people thought it was the actual game rather than the dlc.
I said to myself its not my fault because it was clearly outline in the title and description and after about 3 weeks she paid me..another few weeks gos on and she asks where is the game. I let her know it was only a dlc code and now shes looking for her money back.I was wondering where do i stand here since i didnt set out to defraud her.I clearly outlined what you got in the description and the title.
The latest response she gave me was:
Your advert gave the impression that it was an unused unopened xbox 360 game pal uk compatible, that was misleading information and I want my money back, those codes can be gotten for free off the internet, why would I pay that amount for a code? Please refund to my pay pal because I am really very unhappy and will proceed further with this. Regards, Clodagh.

MarkR

Did she use the code? If not, refund her minus and transaction fees / relisting charge.

Fol20

I cant tell if she used the code..the only way to find that out is by trying the code myself..Again i dont see why i should have to refund her the money since in ebays t&c when you make a bid you accept a contract to buy the item..I never defrauded her since i outlined everything for sale in the description.

Vodkat

Its very clear in the ad thats its only a code the buyer is bidding on and i would be a complete amateur when it comes to things like this. It cleary states that once payment is recieved the code would be sent. Its not in small writing. I really wouldnt know the legality of this but if it was me i would'nt return the money. She will learn her lesson in the future to look at what shes buying.




Maybe i have no heart

Fol20

Im being defensive since it happened to me on ebay..i bought a ipod a few years back and after i won the auction,i found out it was used..I had to go ahead with the auction and i learned from it..I always double check everything i buy now..Again,i never purposely defrauded him.

Max Power1

thats a clear listing, its clearly for the code and not the game. The buyer must be unintelligent or illiterate. Its not in small print like the scammers have.

IMHO I would not refund her. Also, a point worth noting is that she cannot file a paypal dispute for this either so dont let her blackmail you in that way.

quip

Its and Intangible Item, so seller shouldn't have listed it, check eBays T&C's and buyer was very stupid to buy it.

At the end of the day the buyer can't make a claim for an Intangible Item as Intangible Items aren't covered by PayPals dispute proceedure.

In this case the seller doesn't seem to be misleading the buyer its buyer beware and their tuff luck. The condition is a bit misleading but as you aren't supposed to list Intangible Items eBay aren't going to have a suitable catagory and the buyer only had to read a very few lines of a very short listing to kow exactly what was for sale.

timt

I know you didnt set out to scam her or anything but when I looked at the ad now, even after reading your posts, I could still get confused so it'd be pretty hard to tell if I didnt know already that it was just the code.

The part for me thats confusing is:
- You have a photo of the xbox 360 game box
- Condition says 'New: A brand-new, unused, unopened and undamaged item.' Not something you would associate with just a code
- In the description it says 'What is included in this is a dlc code for the following in fable 3' it doesnt say anything about not being a game, which by now the buyer had already assumed from the picture and condition.

So the first half of your listing is the same as one selling the game in its box would be, and you did nothing to directly say it wasnt in the second half. Its not wrong, but it is a bit misleading, and considering there were 22 bids on its way to 39euro it looks like a few people thought the same.

biko

The title is Fable 3 DLC Xbox 360 could you not have added the word code? I can see why it's confusing.
Maybe Fable 3 code or similar.
Also make more obvious this is not the game. It actually doesn't say this in the ad.

Once payment is received, i will email you the code for free.

doesn't make sense? For free, after payment?

Just cancel the transaction and put ad up again.

Max Power1

biko wrote: »

The title is Fable 3 DLC Xbox 360 could you not have added the word code? I can see why it's confusing.
doesn't make sense? For free, after payment?

Just cancel the transaction and put ad up again.

Why should he do that? Incur fees because a buyer paid without reading the listing? Who does that? Buys something reading only the title and not the listing? It really goes to show that there actually is one born every minute.

What i would (love to) do if I were the seller would be to send an email to the buyer with a link to this site.

Baralis1

Vodkat wrote: »

Its very clear in the ad thats its only a code the buyer is bidding on and i would be a complete amateur when it comes to things like this. It cleary states that once payment is recieved the code would be sent. Its not in small writing. I really wouldnt know the legality of this but if it was me i would'nt return the money. She will learn her lesson in the future to look at what shes buying.




Maybe i have no heart

I actually disagree with this. The item condiion states that the item is "New: A brand-new, unused, unopened and undamaged item".
My reading of the ad is that you are getting the game and that the code is an added bonus that is emailed on for free afterwards. It is even stated " Once payment is received, i will email you the code for free".

Maybe there is one of us born every minute,:D but certainly quite a few people read the ad, drew the same conclusion and bidded on the understanding that they were getting the game, for the price to go up to 39Euro.

I think you should offer a full refund to the buyer. It should be obvious to any reasonable person that a code isn't worth 39Euro.

quip

biko wrote: »

....
Just cancel the transaction and put ad up again.

And break ebay rules a second time?

Check Listing no item on ebays Help pages

...We don't allow listings that aren't offering anything for sale or those that have intangible items (generally things don’t physically exist).

Then there is The digitally delieved goods policy

Example of items that may be restricted :

Items that are not supplied on a physical format like a CD or Hardcopy. The option of delivering the item by email or digitally must never be included.

Yeah I know a lot of people sell all sorts of digitally delieved codes online and eBay do nothing about it but the rules are still there.

Baralis1

Baralis1 wrote: »

I actually disagree with this. The item condiion states that the item is "New: A brand-new, unused, unopened and undamaged item".
My reading of the ad is that you are getting the game and that the code is an added bonus that is emailed on for free afterwards. It is even stated " Once payment is received, i will email you the code for free".

Maybe there is one of us born every minute,:D but certainly quite a few people read the ad, drew the same conclusion and bidded on the understanding that they were getting the game, for the price to go up to 39Euro.

I think you should offer a full refund to the buyer. It should be obvious to any reasonable person that a code isn't worth 39Euro.

Sorry, I should have read the whole thread. Looks like these points have already been made.

copacetic

That ad reads as an attempt to scam to me too. A pciture of the game and

Condition : New: A brand-new, unused, unopened and undamaged item.
Format: PAL (UK Standard)

Lots of people aren't aware of what a DLC is, or that there are so many scams on ebay to watch out for..

Baralis1

Max Power1 wrote: »

Why should he do that? Incur fees because a buyer paid without reading the listing? Who does that? Buys something reading only the title and not the listing? It really goes to show that there actually is one born every minute.

What i would (love to) do if I were the seller would be to send an email to the buyer with a link to this site.

Because the ad is clearly misleading, and it says nowhere in the listing that you are just getting a code and not the game. In-fact it states that the code is emailed on for free.

quip

This listing states

What is included in this is a dlc code for the following in fable 3

It doesn't say anything else is included.

Its not a great listing from the point of view of clarity but its no worse than millions of other listings.

Sounds like what happened was a bidding frenzy? All it needs is one bidder who thinks it the full game to start bidding beyond the codes actual value and other potential bidders think what does that guy know that we don't and start bidding the same way. Thats just the way of auctions.

Then any potential buyer is always encouraged to look at the sellers feedback, and what was the last thing the sellers feed back says?

Jaw dropping bargain. Code worked a treat. Excellent service +++++++++++++++

Finally if you don't kow whats for sale or what a dlc is then ask the seller?

copacetic

quip wrote: »

This listing states

It doesn't say anything else is included.

Its not a great listing from the point of view of clarity but its no worse than millions of other listings.

Sounds like what happened was a bidding frenzy? All it needs is one bidder who thinks it the full game to start bidding beyond the codes actual value and other potential bidders think what does that guy know that we don't and start bidding the same way. Thats just the way of auctions.

Then any potential buyer is always encouraged to look at the sellers feedback, and what was the last thing the sellers feed back says?


Finally if you don't kow whats for sale or what a dlc is then ask the seller?

This is the standard scammer reply, there are loads of other people doing it so it's ok?

Someone with plenty of ebay experience will have quickly spotted it was a dodgy ad. However there are 5 or 6 clear indications that the listing is for a game. Including a picture of said game with free P+P stuck on it. Of course there is a chance someone will fall for it.

A number of bidders clearly thought it was a game. 'It's not my fault my scam worked' is not a valid position.

StormWarrior

The ad does come across as misleading to me. Most sellers would add a line to the listing such as "Please be aware that this is for the code only, not for the game." There is alot of stuff in the listing to make someone think they'd be getting the game. I think you should refund.

biko

I think ebay will see it our way if the buyer complains.

Fol20

quip wrote: »

This listing states

It doesn't say anything else is included.

Its not a great listing from the point of view of clarity but its no worse than millions of other listings.

Sounds like what happened was a bidding frenzy? All it needs is one bidder who thinks it the full game to start bidding beyond the codes actual value and other potential bidders think what does that guy know that we don't and start bidding the same way. Thats just the way of auctions.

Then any potential buyer is always encouraged to look at the sellers feedback, and what was the last thing the sellers feed back says?


Finally if you don't kow whats for sale or what a dlc is then ask the seller?

Your actually spot on,that is exactly what happened..someone put a big bid on it,then other people followed..I never set out to fraud her and as you have rightly pointed out i have sold dlc codes before with no such problem..Yes 39 may not be worth for the code but thats not my fault..They could have asked me any questions and i would have gladly answered them.Instead she bids on the item title and not the description..
I never put in the item new unused stuff..That is a something that ebay put in,i think it also says this may not represent the game as well but is something ebay put together.

Jakob

Ok ok, so we know you didn't set out to fraud her. Ok so she should have really looked better at why she was actually buying. Ok so it's her fault. €39 could be alot of money to this woman. In my opinion, you should refund her the money. It's probably the right thing to do.

argosy2006

did person ask questions to you before buying ,? did you just let her carry on thinking it was a game,
you should refund her, i know nothing about games and to me it was a game been sold,
maybe she was buying as a gift ,

'''New: A brand-new, unused, unopened and undamaged item.'''

thats not right

Refund her be a man ! you said your self people thought it was game but it was not up to you to put people right,
Well i think it was up to you ! ur selling it, maybe to a mother who is buying it for a kid,
so before any sale was made you should be making sure people know what there buying,
REFUND ,

argosy2006

''Im guessing some people thought it was the actual game rather than the dlc.
I said to myself its not my fault''

you knew what was going on and sat back and said nothing,
thats not fair,

timt

quip wrote: »

This listing states

It doesn't say anything else is included.

It also doesnt say anything else ISNT included. And since the ad from there on up looks like its for a game, its very misleading

Rollercoaster

If I were the seller, I would give the buyer a refund to get positive feedback. Cancel the transaction to recoup the eBay fees and I would offer the other bidders as second chance offer.

PayPal always favours the buyer so if the buyer in this instance opens a PayPal claim the refund will happen anyhow

Fol20

Jakob wrote: »

Ok ok, so we know you didn't set out to fraud her. Ok so she should have really looked better at why she was actually buying. Ok so it's her fault. €39 could be alot of money to this woman. In my opinion, you should refund her the money. It's probably the right thing to do.

Its business,i dont know her and i dont care if its the right thing to do..its all about selling the item..

Fol20

argosy2006 wrote: »

did person ask questions to you before buying ,? did you just let her carry on thinking it was a game,
you should refund her, i know nothing about games and to me it was a game been sold,
maybe she was buying as a gift ,

'''New: A brand-new, unused, unopened and undamaged item.'''

thats not right

Refund her be a man ! you said your self people thought it was game but it was not up to you to put people right,
Well i think it was up to you ! ur selling it, maybe to a mother who is buying it for a kid,
so before any sale was made you should be making sure people know what there buying,
REFUND ,

Its not my fault for them being ignorant..thats like saying its the dealers fault for selling me a bad car rather the the buyers fault for not doing the proper research.

''New: A brand-new, unused, unopened and undamaged item.'''
This is correct aswell..this was brand new unopened until i scratched the code off and emailed her

Fol20

argosy2006 wrote: »

''Im guessing some people thought it was the actual game rather than the dlc.
I said to myself its not my fault''

you knew what was going on and sat back and said nothing,
thats not fair,

I let the item sell,i never monitored it

tudlytops

Fol20 wrote: »

Its business,i dont know her and i dont care if its the right thing to do..its all about selling the item..

Yeah yeah, but there is a thing called feedback, i for one stay well away from sellers with bad feed back.

Also i looked at it and if you are not a gamer, but just looking to buy a game, say as a present, the add is not obvious at all.

Most adds like that will write in Big letters, this is not an auction for the actual game, its for this or that.

And the fact that he should have not listed it in the first place, will give ebay and paypal a reason to refund ther he money.

If i was her, i would go all the way with paypal and ebay until i got my refund.

tudlytops

Fol20 wrote: »

Its not my fault for them being ignorant..thats like saying its the dealers fault for selling me a bad car rather the the buyers fault for not doing the proper research.

''New: A brand-new, unused, unopened and undamaged item.'''
This is correct aswell..this was brand new unopened until i scratched the code off and emailed her

You made a tangible item intangible, why did you scratch it, why not post it to her to so she could scratch it herself or now return it to you?

Fol20

Rollercoaster wrote: »

If I were the seller, I would give the buyer a refund to get positive feedback. Cancel the transaction to recoup the eBay fees and I would offer the other bidders as second chance offer.

PayPal always favours the buyer so if the buyer in this instance opens a PayPal claim the refund will happen anyhow

If she gives me negative feedback, i will report her,i have done nothing wrong in my opinion.

You are right,paypal do favor the buyer. However paypal do look at it in a objective mannor and i believe in this example they will see i never scammed her.

fuzztone

tudlytops wrote: »

You made a tangible item intangible, why did you scratch it, why not post it to her to so she could scratch it herself or now return it to you?

This tends to be the general practice when selling DLCs on Ebay. Why wait one or two weeks for a code to be delivered when you can recieve it instantly.

Fol20 wrote:

If she gives me negative feedback, i will report her,i have done nothing wrong in my opinion.

She has.

the_syco

Hrm. I'd say use the code. If you can't, she has used it, and thus has used the "product". If you can use the code, then she hasn't used the "product", and refund then her. Next time, you'll know to label it better, so that the stupid people out there will know that you are selling a DLC code?

tudlytops

fuzztone wrote: »

This tends to be the general practice when selling DLCs on Ebay. Why wait one or two weeks for a code to be delivered when you can recieve it instantly.


Because she may want to give it as a present, you could have at least asked and you wouldn't have the problem you having now, because you would not have scrathed it and you now knew it wasn't used.

She has.

And if your emails to her were as rude as some of your comments here, like "i don't know her, i don't care", she is right to do so.

You were not clear and she made a mistake, all you had to do was refund her, minus your costs, and all would have been fine, but you though hehe, they got it wrong, nice one, lets make some money.

You said it your self, that you guessed some though it was the game, and obviously she wasn't the only one to think it was for the game.

fuzztone

tudlytops wrote: »

And if your emails to her were as rude as some of your comments here, like "i don't know her, i don't care", she is right to do so.

You were not clear and she made a mistake, all you had to do was refund her, minus your costs, and all would have been fine, but you though hehe, they got it wrong, nice one, lets make some money.

You said it your self, that you guessed some though it was the game, and obviously she wasn't the only one to think it was for the game.

I'm not the OP, I was just commenting on the standard way DLC codes are distributed on Ebay.

Wolfe Tone

Just so we are clear:

The seller is gonna lose out here if he does anything. If he refunds her he will have to check that she hasn't used the code, in doing so making it worthless. Who says she wont use the code after she gets refunded?

tudlytops

fuzztone wrote: »

I'm not the OP, I was just commenting on the standard way DLC codes are distributed on Ebay.

Sorry, about that, wrongly worded from my part.

tudlytops

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

Just so we are clear:

The seller is gonna lose out here if he does anything. If he refunds her he will have to check that she hasn't used the code, in doing so making it worthless. Who says she wont use the code after she gets refunded?

She wouldn't if he hadn't scratch it, comom practice or not, she should have been asked.

In any case she paid well over the odds for a code and he knew well why...Because she though it was a game.

All he should do now is explain that he can't use the code now and would she be happy to take half the blame kinda thing and there for he will refund the difference between what codes normally go for and what she paid.

Fol20

fuzztone wrote: »

This tends to be the general practice when selling DLCs on Ebay. Why wait one or two weeks for a code to be delivered when you can recieve it instantly.




She has.

Yea the reason why i scratched it,like the rest of the dlcs i have sold is because it is commone practice for codes since it is cheaper,quicker and just more efficient in every way.

Fol20

the_syco wrote: »

Hrm. I'd say use the code. If you can't, she has used it, and thus has used the "product". If you can use the code, then she hasn't used the "product", and refund then her. Next time, you'll know to label it better, so that the stupid people out there will know that you are selling a DLC code?

So wait,your saying i should try and use the code to see if it works.If it doesnt work dont refund her.If it does work,refund her and i will not be able to sell the item.Doesnt this defeat the whole purpose of selling an item.

Fol20

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

Just so we are clear:

The seller is gonna lose out here if he does anything. If he refunds her he will have to check that she hasn't used the code, in doing so making it worthless. Who says she wont use the code after she gets refunded?

Thanks

tudlytops

Fol20 wrote: »

Yea the reason why i scratched it,like the rest of the dlcs i have sold is because it is commone practice for codes since it is cheaper,quicker and just more efficient in every way.

like i said, the buyer should have the choice...and you would not have this problem now.

In any case, you know what you should do, some way you knew what had happened when the selling price went so high, the rest is just idle conversation.

Fol20

tudlytops wrote: »

And if your emails to her were as rude as some of your comments here, like "i don't know her, i don't care", she is right to do so.

You were not clear and she made a mistake, all you had to do was refund her, minus your costs, and all would have been fine, but you though hehe, they got it wrong, nice one, lets make some money.

You said it your self, that you guessed some though it was the game, and obviously she wasn't the only one to think it was for the game.

On boards i express my opinion which may come across as rude(its up to you to interpret it this way,i dont see how it is rude to you as my comments are not directed to you.).
On ebay,its a different story,i keep it very civil and treat it as a business transaction.No emotions are expressed.

tudlytops

Fol20 wrote: »

On boards i express my opinion which may come across as rude(its up to you to interpret it this way,i dont see how it is rude to you as my comments are not directed to you.).
On ebay,its a different story,i keep it very civil and treat it as a business transaction.No emotions are expressed.

But you are asking us to judge the situation as you put it here, so we can only go with what you say here....

To me if someone says "i don't know her so i don't care" they are being rude.

old_aussie

Follow the refund part in the resolution centre on ebay.

People who use eBay should learn how to use eBay properly and professionally!


E.G.


"Hello,
I will give you a full refund.
You will receive an email request from eBay to agree to cancell the transaction(in the "Resolution Centre" in "My eBay")
Once you agree, I will refund your money in full.
Thanking you,"

The sellers fees will be refunded by eBay and the buyer will have their money back
Make her declare in eBay messages that she has not used the code, just incase she has, you will have a comeback.
FFS. learn how to use the tools on eBay

If your still not sure, contact eBay via live chat and they will assist you, that's what ebay live chat is for!

Max Power1

Fol20 wrote: »

If she gives me negative feedback, i will report her,i have done nothing wrong in my opinion.

You are right,paypal do favor the buyer. However paypal do look at it in a objective mannor and i believe in this example they will see i never scammed her.

Not in this case. Intangible items are not covered if the buyer files a paypal dispute. The buyer's claim will be denied.

B00MSTICK

This possibly isn't the same code but here's a similar one for €6 with BIN. I really don't think it'll get more than 1 bid personally, so its more like €5

Your code is probably worth around the same, if even that.

Because of your 1 negative feedback your rating has dropped from 100% to 92.9%, which will deter quite a few people. If you intend to continue to use eBay in the long term then I reckon you should refund her and get positive feedback if possible.

Refunding her is the correct business decision in this case.
People will often pay a bit more for someone that has 100% feedback.

quip

Be careful with this seller advert was misleading, attitude not good. not happy.

As negative feedback that is fair enough in this instance and the only reason eBay might remove it is because its the OP's first negative. But what can't be changed are the preformace ratings (stars) that buyer gives and I suspect low scores in that area which will come back and haunt the OP if they get a second negative and bad ratings.

I actively seek out sellers with one negative like this as it really puts off buyers and can greatly reduce the hammer price.

jugger

Fol20 wrote: »

On boards i express my opinion which may come across as rude(its up to you to interpret it this way,i dont see how it is rude to you as my comments are not directed to you.).
On ebay,its a different story,i keep it very civil and treat it as a business transaction.No emotions are expressed.

the buyer disagrees with you op she says on your feed back ....

"Be careful with this seller advert was misleading, attitude not good. not happy."

so i dont think you were quite as civil as you thought you were
by the i really dont think you set out to misslead any one but your advert http://cgi.ebay.ie/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170563467901&ssPageName=STRK:MESOX:IT#ht_500wt_1156
really isnt as clear and this sellers advert
http://cgi.ebay.ie/Fable-3-DLC-Code-Card-/120658016082?pt=UK_VideoGames_VideoGameAccessories_VideoGameAccessories_JN&hash=item1c17c73752#ht_500wt_1156
i can see how the buyer could have belived it was a game not a code she buying go on give her a refund

Max Power1

I wouldnt give her a refund. Also, if that is the exact text of the feedback left, it will (or should imo) be removed as "attitude not good" is a personal comment and not related to the transaction.

Fol20

jugger wrote: »

the buyer disagrees with you op she says on your feed back ....

"Be careful with this seller advert was misleading, attitude not good. not happy."

so i dont think you were quite as civil as you thought you were
by the i really dont think you set out to misslead any one but your advert http://cgi.ebay.ie/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170563467901&ssPageName=STRK:MESOX:IT#ht_500wt_1156
really isnt as clear and this sellers advert
http://cgi.ebay.ie/Fable-3-DLC-Code-Card-/120658016082?pt=UK_VideoGames_VideoGameAccessories_VideoGameAccessories_JN&hash=item1c17c73752#ht_500wt_1156
i can see how the buyer could have belived it was a game not a code she buying go on give her a refund

The following is the communication iv had with her.
Her
Hi, sorry for the delay in payment waiting for lodgement to clear off my card should be in the next few days and will pay as soon as it does, sorry for any imposition this causes you.

Her
Hi, just wondering if I can send you a bank draft or postal order as payment if so, can you give me the address to send it and the name in which it's to made out to, sorry about the delay in payment, Kind Regards,

ME
Sorry i only accept paypal.Paypal is the safest way to get anything
on ebay

ME
Can you please pay for the item.I have given you enough leeway

Her
I apologise for the delay, money arriving late coming in, now just waiting for it to clear in account it will be paid this week, apologies again this was unforeseen from my side.

Her
Payment went through, again I apologise for the delay. Thanks,

ME
The code is as follows
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Have fun with the dlc

her
Hi, I was just wondering if I'll have the game before Christmas? thanks, Clodagh.

Me
What game?I was selling a dlc code for fable 3..I sent you the code
by sending you a message

Her
Your advert gave the impression that it was an unused unopened xbox 360 game pal uk compatible, that was misleading information and I want my money back, those codes can be gotten for free off the internet, why would I pay that amount for a code? Please refund to my pay pal because I am really very unhappy and will proceed further with this.

Me
The product was describes as dlc throughout.In the description,i
outlined what you get with the item.I never said it was a "full game,
uk pal".You may proceed with action if you like,i have no problem
defending my case.Regards fin