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Earplugs for raves/concerts

  • 10-12-2010 7:56pm
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9


    Hello , just saw these earplugs on the internet , I'm now fully aware of the dangers of loud music , anywhere I can get them er20 earplugs made for concerts heard they were in HMV from a last thread but that was back in September , anyone know how much they cost and what HMV in town does them? Cheers in advance :)


«1

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,004 ✭✭✭ironclaw


    Its generally cheaper to order them online. If you not conscience of style too much, you can pick up sets in the likes of Chadwicks or trade centres.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,375 ✭✭✭Pandoras Twist


    I got a cheap but decent set in a fishing and hunting shop. Rubber ones


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,670 ✭✭✭jonnny68


    for jaysus sake is this for real sure you may as well not go at all then wear earplugs, f*ck me you would've been laughed at years ago if you were at a Rave or in a club wearing ear plugs, while your at it why not get a pair of gum shields to protect your teeth when your gurning :rolleyes: ive been to thousands of clubs and Raves and my hearing is fine, don't be such pussys.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,672 ✭✭✭seannash


    jonnny68 wrote: »
    for jaysus sake is this for real sure you may as well not go at all then wear earplugs, f*ck me you would've been laughed at years ago if you were at a Rave or in a club wearing ear plugs, while your at it why not get a pair of gum shields to protect your teeth when your gurning :rolleyes: ive been to thousands of clubs and Raves and my hearing is fine, don't be such pussys.
    These arent for cutting out the sound its basically like a volume knob,it lets you turn down the volume but still hear the music.Its very common for musicians to be cautious about there hearing.

    Nobody cares if youd be laughed out of a rave back in the day.

    You might think your hearing is fine but it could be damaged and you dont know it

    Also what if this person is losing there hearing due to excessive volume from music but doesnt want to stop clubbing,you still gonna tell him to man up and go deaf because thats how it was done back in the day


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,004 ✭✭✭ironclaw


    seannash wrote: »
    These arent for cutting out the sound its basically like a volume knob,it lets you turn down the volume but still hear the music.Its very common for musicians to be cautious about there hearing.

    Nobody cares if youd be laughed out of a rave back in the day.

    You might think your hearing is fine but it could be damaged and you dont know it

    Also what if this person is losing there hearing due to excessive volume from music but doesnt want to stop clubbing,you still gonna tell him to man up and go deaf because thats how it was done back in the day

    Well said. I've spotted a good few big names wearing ear plugs. Pretty sure Armin Van Buureen said in an interview he wished he'd put them in sooner when asked about any regrets from DJing. Was half thinking about in ear monitors myself, about the same price as a decent set of headphones.

    Just because you can't hear doesn't mean you haven't done damage. Its the small things you notice, such as when there is background noise you find it hard to hear someone speaking.

    Saying that, everyone is different and would have different tolerances. But the sad thing is ear damage is irreversible.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,401 ✭✭✭jtsuited


    a 'jonny is actually deaf' theory would explain a lot.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,662 ✭✭✭RMD


    Oh no, the hardcore raver crowd might actually laugh at you. :pac:

    Just in case you are self-concious, you can get some more expensive ones which are skin colored or some UV glow in the dark, the glow in the dark just look cool when paired with other glow in the dark stuff.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,670 ✭✭✭jonnny68


    RMD wrote: »
    Oh no, the hardcore raver crowd might actually laugh at you. :pac:

    Just in case you are self-concious, you can get some more expensive ones which are skin colored or some UV glow in the dark, the glow in the dark just look cool when paired with other glow in the dark stuff.

    foolish boy where did i say that:rolleyes: glow in the dark ear plugs who;s the pleb now eh haha:D


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,670 ✭✭✭jonnny68


    seannash wrote: »
    These arent for cutting out the sound its basically like a volume knob,it lets you turn down the volume but still hear the music.Its very common for musicians to be cautious about there hearing.

    Nobody cares if youd be laughed out of a rave back in the day.

    You might think your hearing is fine but it could be damaged and you dont know it

    Also what if this person is losing there hearing due to excessive volume from music but doesnt want to stop clubbing,you still gonna tell him to man up and go deaf because thats how it was done back in the day

    kids thesedays yiz are feckon pussys:rolleyes: and theres absolutely nothing wrong with my hearing,of course if you DO have problems then you should wear earplugs.

    I cant see if ever actually seen anyone in any club ive been at wearing them but at a few rock concerts i have


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,670 ✭✭✭jonnny68


    jtsuited wrote: »
    a 'jonny is actually deaf' theory would explain a lot.

    a Jeff "i think im more intelligent than anyone else because i went to Uni and have xxxx masters,etc" but still hasn't got any cop on would explain a lot about you:P


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,672 ✭✭✭seannash


    jonnny68 wrote: »
    foolish boy where did i say that:rolleyes:
    Here

    f*ck me you would've been laughed at years ago if you were at a Rave or in a club wearing ear plugs,

    glow in the dark ear plugs who;s the pleb now eh haha:D

    Clearly not you Johnny,Youve yet again come out of a thread with your rep as reputable source for life lessons intact.:rolleyes:

    So would you still recommend the fella to man up and not care about his hearing?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,670 ✭✭✭jonnny68


    seannash wrote: »
    Here







    Clearly not you Johnny,Youve yet again come out of a thread with your rep as reputable source for life lessons intact.:rolleyes:

    So would you still recommend the fella to man up and not care about his hearing?

    wrong, where did i say HARDCORE RAVE CROWD i said YEARS AGO not hardcore rave,check before you post.


    Listen man i really couldn't care if he decides to get custom made ear plugs made by Prada it's all the same to me, i think unless you already have problems with your hearing you wont need them, it's different if your in a band and your on tour and gigging every nite not just going to a club on weekends, there is a difference!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,672 ✭✭✭seannash


    jonnny68 wrote: »
    kids thesedays yiz are feckon pussys:rolleyes: and theres absolutely nothing wrong with my hearing,of course if you DO have problems then you should wear earplugs.

    I cant see if ever actually seen anyone in any club ive been at wearing them but at a few rock concerts i have
    Maybe you simply didnt notice Johnny,did you ever think of that.Plenty of Dj's wear them.

    Its a shame that we dont all have your tough ears,maybe all that cheese you listen to has formed inside your ear to give you a sort of natural protection.
    Judging from some of the tunes you post there is something wrong wit your hearing:D

    (awaits "i used to walk to school in my barefeet" type story)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,670 ✭✭✭jonnny68


    seannash wrote: »
    Maybe you simply didnt notice Johnny,did you ever think of that.Plenty of Dj's wear them.

    Its a shame that we dont all have your tough ears,maybe all that cheese you listen to has formed inside your ear to give you a sort of natural protection.
    Judging from some of the tunes you post there is something wrong wit your hearing:D

    (awaits "i used to walk to school in my barefeet" type story)


    ah you cant help yourself can you man always comes down to slagging with you doesn't it, cop yourself on will you:rolleyes:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,670 ✭✭✭jonnny68


    DJ's might play 10+ gigs a weekend so it would probably make sense,going to 1 or 2 clubs of a weekend isn't gonna make much difference.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,672 ✭✭✭seannash


    wrong, where did i say HARDCORE RAVE CROWD i said YEARS AGO not hardcore rave,check before you post.
    Ah okay,i should have made the distinction alright,lets get really bogged down in the words you used and not the meaning
    Listen man i really couldn't care if he decides to get custom made ear plugs made by Prada it's all the same to me, i think unless you already have problems with your hearing you wont need them, it's different if your in a band and your on tour and gigging every nite not just going to a club on weekends, there is a difference!
    Johnny,I dont have prada earplugs.I did have custom earplugs made when i was djing every weekend because i knew my ears where taking a bashing.I couldnt get used to them so i stopped using them and my hearing did suffer.
    Its kinda funny that you slag people who couldnt care less how they look and put there hearing above there looks yet you instantly think its a fashion statement for people to use them


    Im sure youve heard the old prevention is better than the cure,well in this instance there is no cure so were only left with prevention


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,672 ✭✭✭seannash


    jonnny68 wrote: »
    ah you cant help yourself can you man always comes down to slagging with you doesn't it, cop yourself on will you:rolleyes:
    Maybe take a bit of your own advice and toughen the fcuk up
    jonnny68 DJ's might play 10+ gigs a weekend so it would probably make sense,going to 1 or 2 clubs of a weekend isn't gonna make much difference.

    This is idiotic

    You know that ringing in your ears that weve all experienced after a club.thats damage.Preventing that is very important to some people.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,670 ✭✭✭jonnny68


    seannash wrote: »
    Ah okay,i should have made the distinction alright,lets get really bogged down in the words you used and not the meaning


    Johnny,I dont have prada earplugs.I did have custom earplugs made when i was djing every weekend because i knew my ears where taking a bashing.I couldnt get used to them so i stopped using them and my hearing did suffer.
    Its kinda funny that you slag people who couldnt care less how they look and put there hearing above there looks yet you instantly think its a fashion statement for people to use them


    Im sure youve heard the old prevention is better than the cure,well in this instance there is no cure so were only left with prevention

    I used to DJ every weekend for years not to mention go clubbing 3/4/5 nites a week never had any problems,there have been some times particulary at techno partys where the sound system has been so loud i had ringing in my ears for a while but no long term problems, if anyone does have problems then i have sympathy, as i said if your hearing is fine unless your going to a vast amount of clubs every weekend i cant see any problems.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,672 ✭✭✭seannash


    jonnny68 wrote: »
    I used to DJ every weekend for years not to mention go clubbing 3/4/5 nites a week never had any problems,there have been some times particulary at techno partys where the sound system has been so loud i had ringing in my ears for a while but no long term problems, if anyone does have problems then i have sympathy, as i said if your hearing is fine unless your going to a vast amount of clubs every weekend i cant see any problems.
    And ive been in a car loads of times and not had a crash but i still wear a seatbelt.

    Your IQ is dropping everytime you post man


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,670 ✭✭✭jonnny68


    seannash wrote: »
    And ive been in a car loads of times and not had a crash but i still wear a seatbelt.

    Your IQ is dropping everytime you post man


    :rolleyes:

    jesus man you really need to cop yourself on and get a life.


    later


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,672 ✭✭✭seannash


    jonnny68 wrote: »
    :rolleyes:

    jesus man you really need to cop yourself on and get a life.


    later
    Yep your right,Thanks Johnny,your so wise.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 229 ✭✭R.Shackleford


    If movies have taught us anything...



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 856 ✭✭✭Carl Sagan


    jonnny68 wrote: »
    :rolleyes:

    jesus man you really need to cop yourself on and get a life.


    later

    He actually made completely valid posts every time.

    All you did was insult people who care about their hearing and tell Sean to get a life. Congratulations!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,401 ✭✭✭jtsuited


    jonnny68 wrote: »
    a Jeff "i think im more intelligent than anyone else because i went to Uni and have xxxx masters,etc" but still hasn't got any cop on would explain a lot about you:P

    yeah I'm sorry I didn't go to the University of Life. There, I would have probably learnt the skills necessary to have to become an economic migrant.

    My loss.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,401 ✭✭✭jtsuited


    anyone going to ask the most obvious question??

    jonny, have you had your ears tested recently by a qualified audiologist? The thing about hearing loss, is you don't know how bad it is until you've been tested.

    I've seen with my own eyes, guys fail hearing tests who would have never thought they had any problems.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,401 ✭✭✭jtsuited


    Nathan_10 wrote: »
    Hello , just saw these earplugs on the internet , I'm now fully aware of the dangers of loud music , anywhere I can get them er20 earplugs made for concerts heard they were in HMV from a last thread but that was back in September , anyone know how much they cost and what HMV in town does them? Cheers in advance :)

    Look up an audiologist in the yellow pages. Do not skimp on getting plugs made for you. Badly fitted earplugs are often a lot worse than no ear plugs at all.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,662 ✭✭✭RMD


    jonnny68 wrote:
    Listen man i really couldn't care if he decides to get custom made ear plugs made by Prada it's all the same to me, i think unless you already have problems with your hearing you wont need them, it's different if your in a band and your on tour and gigging every nite not just going to a club on weekends, there is a difference!

    Ye that's the certainly the brightest of ideas. Use damage preventing equipment once the damage has already been done.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,528 ✭✭✭copeyhagen


    seen people wearing them at time warp, thought it was a bit ghey.

    i dont go to see a dj to decide what level the music is it, most of the tie the louder the better. within reason obviously.

    "if its too loud, your too old"


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,672 ✭✭✭seannash


    copeyhagen wrote: »
    seen people wearing them at time warp, thought it was a bit ghey.

    i dont go to see a dj to decide what level the music is it, most of the tie the louder the better. within reason obviously.

    "if its too loud, your too old"
    Gotta disagree man,more and more poeple are musicians and producers these days and as such want to look after there ears.

    people need to remember that these earplugs dont shut out the sound they just turn it down.
    I guess your the sort of person who has there ipod up full blast
    Whether or not they look **** or not is irrelevent


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,662 ✭✭✭RMD


    seannash wrote: »
    Gotta disagree man,more and more poeple are musicians and producers these days and as such want to look after there ears.

    Exactly, the movie "Its All gone Pete Tong" is based on Czech Dj Kristov Masalin who lost his hearing after playing for years unprotected. When DJing is your livelihood and possibly your career, you need to protect your most important piece of kit, your ears.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,625 ✭✭✭✭BaZmO*


    Remember reading an interview with Rocky & Diesel years ago, and one of the lads (can't remember which one) suffers terribly from Tinnitus. Now whatever hearing loss, Tinnitus is not something you'd want to suffer from.

    I did a bit of damage to one of my ears when I first started DJing, so much so that I can't use that ear when cueing. It's not a nice experience doing any sort of damage to ears, especially when it's irreversible.

    And in fairness jonnny, your Bill Cullen type anecdotal evidence of "Ah sure, I did me no harm" counts for nothing.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,375 ✭✭✭Pandoras Twist


    Some gigs have the volume painfully high. Techno tent at nature one was unbearable without the ear plugs. Gigs in Cuba Galway got ridiculously loud for a while.

    It helps you enjoy the gig better, and when people are trying to talk to eachother when they shout in eachothers ears its not as painful.

    One of my mates is doing music production and had to do a special research topic on it. It's pretty serious stuff.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,344 ✭✭✭Is mise le key


    jonnny68 wrote: »
    :rolleyes: ive been to thousands of clubs and Raves and my hearing is fine, don't be such pussys.

    Here here....or did i mean hear hear?
    seannash wrote: »
    you still gonna tell him to man up and go deaf because thats how it was done back in the day

    What:pac:
    ironclaw wrote: »
    Well said. I've spotted a good few big names wearing ear plugs. Pretty sure Armin Van Buureen said in an interview he wished he'd put them in sooner when asked about any regrets from DJing. .

    Fuc.king trance cracker fag.got.
    BaZmO* wrote: »
    Remember reading an interview with Rocky & Diesel years ago, and one of the lads (can't remember which one) suppers terribly from Tinnitus. Now whatever hearing loss, Tinnitus is not something you'd want to suffer from.

    .

    I have it alright, probably from sticking my head into the speaker in the ASYLUM just to feel the vibrations on my head for 5 mins at a time.

    Fuc.king ear plugs in a Rave, what a bunch of aul ones.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,528 ✭✭✭copeyhagen


    seannash wrote: »
    I guess your the sort of person who has there ipod up full blast

    nope, firstly i would be embarressed for people to know im lsitening to a dj set at 7.30 in the morning, and secondly, i dont need the music blasted directly into my ear to enjoy a song.

    but, having said that, i dont go to a rave and plug my headfones into their sound system.

    i remember years ago the papers used to run stories every now and then about people damaging their ears from devices such as mp3 players.

    are the same people buying these ear plugs gonna find a way to stop themselves from damaging their ears via headfones, which supposedly the volume doesnt need to be cranked to do damage.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,625 ✭✭✭✭BaZmO*


    copeyhagen wrote: »
    are the same people buying these ear plugs gonna find a way to stop themselves from damaging their ears via headfones, which supposedly the volume doesnt need to be cranked to do damage.
    No, those reports were about people damaging their ears by listening to music too loud on their headphones. Sure don't Apple have level restrictions on their iPods for this very reason. Of course, there is an easy solution to not damaging your ears while listening to an MP3, and that is to turn down the volume. You don't have that option in a live venue/club.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 813 ✭✭✭CaSCaDe711


    So the strong and brave listen to their music extremely loud and everyone else are aul ones..? :rolleyes: Ridiculous. Time to wake up or continue on the "worry about it later" mentality.

    I often like my earphones fairly loud, and am guilty of playing hard techno at stupid volumes, can't beat some tunes absolutely stomping :) but I do have a limit. Hate when in a club and know the music is just too fcuking high, can ruin a decent night :(

    Love my hearing, and hope it lasts :D


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,344 ✭✭✭Is mise le key


    Yes thats right, fuc.king aul ones brigade.

    Ear Plugs for the rave, dont smoke cause its bad for you, drink moderataley, make sure your hair doesnt go out of place when out & OMG ive got sweat patches on the back of my shirt.

    You stick to your poncey nightclubs & i'll blast myself out of it with pumping loud tunes while consuming large quantities of all manner of stimulants of choice while doing the equivilant of a marathon in one night bucketing sweat & while the sun rises i'll blaze up a cone & draw it into my lungs heavily & perhaps move on to the early house to top it off, might even have a bloody steak the next day.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,545 ✭✭✭SteoL


    Yes thats right, fuc.king aul ones brigade.

    Ear Plugs for the rave, dont smoke cause its bad for you, drink moderataley, make sure your hair doesnt go out of place when out & OMG ive got sweat patches on the back of my shirt.

    You stick to your poncey nightclubs & i'll blast myself out of it with pumping loud tunes while consuming large quantities of all manner of stimulants of choice while doing the equivilant of a marathon in one night bucketing sweat & while the sun rises i'll blaze up a cone & draw it into my lungs heavily & perhaps move on to the early house to top it off, might even have a bloody steak the next day.

    Ditto on everything but the steak there key.........I can't eat for days after indulging in any stimulants.

    What's with all the Johnny bashing btw?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,625 ✭✭✭✭BaZmO*


    Mise, remind us what you do for a living again?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,344 ✭✭✭Is mise le key


    BaZmO* wrote: »
    Mise, remind us what you do for a living again?

    Yes good man Baz, as i said when i told you all that you would laugh yer ass off,

    Health & Safety Manager.

    But come on now, thats like saying a surgeon cant smoke or drink because of what he does.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,625 ✭✭✭✭BaZmO*


    But come on now, thats like saying a surgeon cant smoke or drink because of what he does.
    It's not like saying that at all. Many surgeons smoke, but they are aware of the dangers and it is only themselves that they are harming.

    In this case it would be like a surgeon telling anybody that decided to give up smoking that they're a little b1tch for giving up and that there was nothing to worry about.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,344 ✭✭✭Is mise le key


    BaZmO* wrote: »
    It's not like saying that at all. Many surgeons smoke, but they are aware of the dangers and it is only themselves that they are harming. In this case it would be little a surgeon telling anybody that decided to give up smoking that they're a little b1tch for giving up and that there was nothing to worry about.

    I am aware of all the dangers i put my self in but i am not on here commenting in a professional capacity.
    You would not expect a surgeon to advocate anything while dressed in his gear in the hospital but he may very well have his own opinion & way of looking at life & recreational activity outside of his professional capacity as a surgeon & could very well be at party calling his mates fags for refusing the next round of the Bong.

    *waits for back up from a surgeon calling them all little bitches*


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,614 ✭✭✭es-cee


    some of the posts in this thread are very amusing:D

    about the ear plugs tho, my ears (my right ear in particular) anytime i come out of a club, do be ringin like **** for a couple of days, its deffo damage from years of noise abuse from using decks. my right ear got the worst from earphones blasting from a child right up till now, thats a good 16 years at this stage and lookin back i should of been more carefull.
    i.ve had a few tests done and my hearing is fine but like i said, i suffer with ringin in my ears for a couple of days afterwards, i,m lookin into buyin a set of plugs meself soon to help with the ringin, gets very annoying and makes you take heed of the damage you are doing to yourself.
    mightn't be every1s cuppa but i'm lookin out for myself here, no1 else, each to their own and all that.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,344 ✭✭✭Is mise le key


    es-cee wrote: »
    some of the posts in this thread are very amusing:D

    about the ear plugs tho, my ears (my right ear in particular) anytime i come out of a club, do be ringin like **** for a couple of days, its deffo damage from years of noise abuse from using decks. my right ear got the worst from earphones blasting from a child right up till now, thats a good 16 years at this stage and lookin back i should of been more carefull.
    i.ve had a few tests done and my hearing is fine but like i said, i suffer with ringin in my ears for a couple of days afterwards, i,m lookin into buyin a set of plugs meself soon to help with the ringin, gets very annoying and makes you take heed of the damage you are doing to yourself.
    mightn't be every1s cuppa but i'm lookin out for myself here, no1 else, each to their own and all that.

    What


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,625 ✭✭✭✭BaZmO*


    What
    That joke only works if he's talking to you. Doesn't really work when you're reading it.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,344 ✭✭✭Is mise le key


    BaZmO* wrote: »
    That joke only works if he's talking to you. Doesn't really work when you're reading it.

    Thanks baz, whens your next gig in the laughter lounge?

    Will you lend me your text book on stand up this week so i can brush up.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,625 ✭✭✭✭BaZmO*


    Thanks baz, whens your next gig in the laughter lounge?

    Will you lend me your text book on stand up this week so i can brush up.
    What


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,344 ✭✭✭Is mise le key


    BaZmO* wrote: »
    What

    Sorry baz your assessment doesnt work, even tough i was talking to you (as you said was the correct way to deliver a what) that wasnt funny & didnt even bring a grin......back to the study for you.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,614 ✭✭✭es-cee


    What

    i deffo think my hearing is worth saving tbh key, like i said, each to their own and all that. i've noticed the diff thru the years with how bad its gotten comin out of clubs nearly deaf from the late 90s up till now, and now that i'm not a teenager and have some savvy, i don't wanna be totally mutton jeff when i'm older havin to use hearin aids like so many people i see around me, and most of those were from workin on sites usin drills and cangos for short periods not between 5 - 10 hours of constant exposure at a time. really made me take notice when i thought of it that way, your hearing is priceless mate.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,670 ✭✭✭jonnny68


    jtsuited wrote: »
    yeah I'm sorry I didn't go to the University of Life. There, I would have probably learnt the skills necessary to have to become an economic migrant.

    My loss.

    you can have as many bloody masters you want it wont give you real cop on your loss indeed sunshine


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