Party Political Campeigners 'Astroturfing' on Boards.ie

Spacedog

Many of the pre-election posts appearing lately on boards, politics and after hours specifically, appear to me as being blatent displays of Party Political Campeigners astroturfing our community.

I guess it is no different than campeigners being caught out on Questions and Answers, posing as a normal member of the public with a genuine concern.

Are there any regular posters here who are paid by a Political Party to post here as part of their work who have the honesty to admit it?

DeVore

If we find this happening, we'll be naming and shaming the parties involved.

DeV.

oJayTo

More than likely there is party rep's watching boards. I dont think you would have much luck actually getting one to own up it would kind of defeat the purpose. For all you know Im an astroturfer

Mr.Micro

DeVore wrote: »

If we find this happening, we'll be naming and shaming the parties involved.

DeV.

If they are anything like Fianna Failure they don't know shame.

DeVore

Shortly, what they feel will be irrelevant; we, the people, will get our say...


DeV.

DB10

FG seem to have paid up posters in here....

DeVore

Can you back up that claim with anything?

DeV?

tightropetom

DeVore wrote: »

Shortly, what they feel will be irrelevant; we, the people, will get our say...


DeV.

Hard to know DeV, parish politics unfortunately still seem to rule here. Look how many voted for FF in Donegal...

It's never about the country, it's about which TD managed to get the pothole outside the house fixed, or who got the extra money for the local GAA club or who got the passport application done quickly. Sickening stuff, but that's what people do in Ireland. I don't know how that's going to change...

DB10

DeVore wrote: »

Can you back up that claim with anything?

DeV?

Not really, but several have let on they have "inside information" on FG documents and what they are planning, some with very little posts...

DB10

tightropetom wrote: »

Hard to know DeV, parish politics unfortunately still seem to rule here. Look how many voted for FF in Donegal...

It's never about the country, it's about which TD managed to get the pothole outside the house fixed, or who got the extra money for the local GAA club or who got the passport application done quickly. Sickening stuff, but that's what people do in Ireland. I don't know how that's going to change...

It never will from what I've seen recently on this forum and in life.

Bob the Builder

I should hope that the general public will be wise enough now not to be fooled. May the best man win.

LordSutch

I made a comment in the Politics forum which possibly refers to Astroturfing? & I got told off > See Post #32.

Link; http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=69408626#post69408626

I presume I was refering to 'Astroturfing'? even though I didn't know it at the time.

=================================================================================

DeVore

DB10 wrote: »

Not really, but several have let on they have "inside information" on FG documents and what they are planning, some with very little posts...

Can you point me at any examples and I'll run our internal sniffer over them and see if it turns up something. These people are never nearly as good as covering their tracks as we are at catching them.

Otherwise, this is conjecture.


DeV.

Inquitus

I'll be voting Fianna Fail and will be posting bad things about Labour as they truly suck balls, and even worse things about SF as my cat has a better manifesto, how can I go about getting paid at the same time? Is there a Dummies guide to astroturfing? Should I write to my TD? add my paypal to my sig?

All help gratefully recieved.

ninty9er

I'm a party political campaigner, I've been round here a long time. I don't get paid and I can't imagine any party, bar Sinn Féin having the resources to pay someone to do it. I do know however that there are a good number of people working for free in Fianna Fáil HQ at the moment on different things, from policy to communications. You might find some of them here, but they're not, nor am I, getting paid.

DeVore

This idea is far from being far-fetched. We found a nest of 22 Universal Studio shills in the music forum. They had set up accounts 6 months in advance and posted a bunch of "innocuous" posts before starting to pimp Universal band CD's.

This "astro turfing" will happen, but its less of a problem here where everyone is entitled to rip them to shreds (logically, not incivilly).

DeV.

PeterIanStaker

Spacedog wrote: »

Are there any regular posters here who are paid by a Political Party to post here as part of their work who have the honesty to admit it?

Honesty? I sincerely doubt it. Considering they lack the spine/scrotum to give a straight answer in the real world.

oppenheimer1

Might not be a bad idea to have a sticky thread named "declaration of interest"?

Dannyboy83

DB10 wrote: »

FG seem to have paid up posters in here....

How convenient
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056113402

DeVore

Aye, a "full disclosure" thread might be an idea...

DeV.

Bottle_of_Smoke

Some of the pro-FF posters recently seem like trolls to me - but maybe this is more likely.

Also the ''Are Sinn Fein Communist?'' thread title is a bit suspect. I mean its a petty jibe really that is clearly not even thought of them by anyone. Bit like starting a thread called ''Are FG a facist party?''

LordSutch

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »

Also the ''Are Sinn Fein Communist?'' thread title is a bit suspect. I mean its a petty jibe really that is clearly not even thought of them by anyone. Bit like starting a thread called ''Are FG a facist party?''

Exactly the point I was making.

Scofflaw

It undoubtedly does happen, and is likely to happen in the upcoming election. However, allow me to make a few points:

1. there is - obviously - no rule against any party's supporters choosing to get involved on boards.ie

2. between a party's supporters and its unpaid campaigners there is no real distinction

3. if someone asks a question that supporters of any particular political party find annoying/unfair/heavily spun, that's political debate, and hard cheese, whether the person posting is a campaigner for another party or not. Trolling is trolling, and can be dealt with in the usual way, but asking a question about your party you feel is heavily loaded or otherwise unfair is not necessarily trolling.

4. unless the parties are paying for some kind of masterminds of spin, then any campaigner posting here is posting on a pretty level playing pitch.

5. something that won't be tolerated is soapboxing - this is a discussion forum, not a letterbox for posting party manifestos into, or for reiterating party slogans at every conceivable opportunity. If posters will not actually engage with the forum, they don't deserve access to it.

6. claiming that another poster is a shill for a political party is a form of ad hominem - essentially, you're saying that people should ignore their opinion - and unless the poster concerned has said that that's what they are, it will be treated in the usual way as a form of insult.

Overall, people coming into any public space in order to promote their party is part and parcel of democracy. If you're here arguing for Fine Gael, or Labour, or Fianna Fáil to be given people's votes in the election, you too are campaigning. I don't see any really meaningful distinction between people who choose to do it on a purely personal basis and those who choose to do it more formally.

cordially,
Scofflaw

Bottle_of_Smoke

ninty9er wrote: »

I'm a party political campaigner, I've been round here a long time. I don't get paid and I can't imagine any party, bar Sinn Féin having the resources to pay someone to do it. I do know however that there are a good number of people working for free in Fianna Fáil HQ at the moment on different things, from policy to communications. You might find some of them here, but they're not, nor am I, getting paid.

Plenty of party members would happily do it for free

hmmm

It's going to be very hard to detect any sort of sophisticated political astroturf campaign. Obviously if someone is posting "Vote xyz" it may be obvious, but what about people posting in AH who are (say) complaining about the EU, or complaining about AIB bonuses - there are political parties with vested interests in stoking public anger on these topics. Parties like SF are disproportionally represented on political bulletin boards and it's hard to believe that this is anything but a deliberate strategy (or perhaps it is that they attract more zealots than the middle class, centrist parties).

DeVore

Let me clarify my statement above.

If a party approaches us we'll be happy to engage with them.

If a person says "I'm a campaigner for X or I volunteer for group Y" then they have disclosed their connections and thats cool.

If a person comes along and says "I'm a little old lady in Mayo and I love XYZ because they did ABC for me, arent they great" when in actual fact they are a campaigner sitting in Dublin or wherever, then I'm going to name and shame them and ask very awkward questions to their bosses.


We *will* catch them too.

DeV.

Scofflaw

DeVore wrote: »

Let me clarify my statement above.

If a party approaches us we'll be happy to engage with them.

If a person says "I'm a campaigner for X or I volunteer for group Y" then they have disclosed their connections and thats cool.

If a person comes along and says "I'm a little old lady in Mayo and I love XYZ because they did ABC for me, arent they great" when in actual fact they are a campaigner sitting in Dublin or wherever, then I'm going to name and shame them and ask very awkward questions to their bosses.


We *will* catch them too.

DeV.

There is obviously a problem with campaigners posing as non-campaigners - they're lying. From that perspective, it's worth being suspicious of anyone who posts far more 'personal' information than posters would usually give.

However, from a moderation perspective, I'll reiterate the point that if people feel someone is an astroturf campaigner, they need to report it, because simply throwing accusations of shilling about the place will result in infractions in the usual way.

cordially,
Scofflaw

DeVore

Absolutely, which is what I challenged DB10 above. I completely agree with you that accusing someone of being a shill is Ad Hominem and shouldnt be taken lightly.

DeV.

K-9

Scofflaw wrote: »

Overall, people coming into any public space in order to promote their party is part and parcel of democracy. If you're here arguing for Fine Gael, or Labour, or Fianna Fáil to be given people's votes in the election, you too are campaigning. I don't see any really meaningful distinction between people who choose to do it on a purely personal basis and those who choose to do it more formally.

cordially,
Scofflaw

I think those particular posters tend to forget that too. If a poster shows bias for a particular party, some may associate them with negative policies of that particular party. Most campaigners don't see the negatives in their policies!

As somebody who has voted FF in the past I can say that from experience. As a floating voter, it is fun spotting the campaigners. Some may even genuinely think they aren't at it.

Scofflaw

K-9 wrote: »

I think those particular posters tend to forget that too. If a poster shows bias for a particular party, some may associate them with negative policies of that particular party. Most campaigners don't see the negatives in their policies!

As somebody who has voted FF in the past I can say that from experience. As a floating voter, it is fun spotting the campaigners. Some may even genuinely think they aren't at it.

Speaking from the perspective of being a notorious Green supporter through a period where the Greens are even more unpopular than usual, I can't help but feel that the stalwarts of other parties tend sometimes to have an exaggerated notion of what constitutes an unfair attack on their preferred party...

cordially,
Scofflaw

Tipp Man

DeVore wrote: »

Aye, a "full disclosure" thread might be an idea...

DeV.

Can we put this into action??

I think that a thread with just 2 lines from every poster on politics (and Irish Economy) forum stating membership of a particular party or whether they campaign for a particular party. Perhaps don't allow people to post until they've completed this application form??

There are also people who are clearly on a wind up on here as well, making completly unsubstantiated claims which they cant back up even when asked to several times. It's incredibly annoying for a start but it just turns threads into a farce and ends up being a complete waste of time for other posters

Anyway I'll start it off

Not a member of any party
Never campaigned for any party

P. Breathnach

K-9 wrote: »

... As a floating voter, it is fun spotting the campaigners...

It's fine if you do so for your own entertainment (lordy, we don't get much entertainment in the political sphere these days). Things become irksome when accusations are thrown around in the course of discussion here. The only thing I am willing to say here about my political position is that I am not a member or active supporter of any party. Yet I have been accused of being a member of at least three different parties (maybe four, but it's not worth the effort of checking). Such unfounded accusations achieve nothing useful, and seem like an effort to devalue any argument I might be making.

jmayo

DeVore wrote: »

If we find this happening, we'll be naming and shaming the parties involved.

DeV.

Good luck on that one.

DB10 wrote: »

FG seem to have paid up posters in here....

Ah yes the evil blueshirts.
Someone could accuse you of being a paid anti FG with amount of junk you have posted about them.

DB10 wrote: »

Not really, but several have let on they have "inside information" on FG documents and what they are planning, some with very little posts...

You have over the last few days come out with outrageous exaggerated statements with absolutely no proof and then when challenged on them you claim the rest of us are paid FG agents.

Scofflaw wrote: »

Overall, people coming into any public space in order to promote their party is part and parcel of democracy. If you're here arguing for Fine Gael, or Labour, or Fianna Fáil to be given people's votes in the election, you too are campaigning.

cordially,
Scofflaw

You forgot people who post arguing for the greens

DeVore wrote: »

...
If a person comes along and says "I'm a little old lady in Mayo and I love XYZ because they did ABC for me, arent they great" when in actual fact they are a campaigner sitting in Dublin or wherever, then I'm going to name and shame them and ask very awkward questions to their bosses.
...

How dare they impersonate some little old lady from Mayo. :mad:

To continue Tippman's theme.
I am not, nor ever have been a member of any party.
I would have always voted FG and Labour in that order, because I would have admired some of their leading personalities (Fitzgerald, dukes (not anymore), Barry, R Quinn, Yates, Howlin, Rabitte) agreed with a fair chunk of their policies and I have depised ff ever since growing up in the haydays of cj haughey.

Since those days I have never seen anything from ff and it's leading members, to have altered my opinion that the party is one of corruption, unethical behaviour, cronyism, irresponsibility and vote buying.

I would have favoured Desie and some of the PD policies, but sadly they quickly jumped back into bed with their former colleagues and then were led by harney and the buffoon mcdowell who were nothing more than ff lackies.

And just to scare DB10, scr123, ff_and_proud even more I do actually favour blueshirts over other colours.

Liam Byrne

Given some of the lies and deflection that we've seen both here and on mainstream media, I'm doubtful about whether this will provide any additional insight, but here we go:

1) I am not, and have never been, a member of any political party
2) I used to vote for the PDs in the early days when O'Malley was there, before they lost their way
3) I will probably vote for a combination of Labour, FG & Independent, but I don't know in what order yet; I will not vote for FF or Green or PD-remnants or SF because I despise what they represent

I am possibly "campaigning" for honesty, accountability, competence and fairness, and the right for everybody to earn a living and get by without a struggle; also maybe trying to convince people to put some thought/realism into their vote - and to actually vote!

But I am not campaigning for any specific party, and doubt that I would because none of them are good or consistent enough, and I hate the concept of any party whip.

If Pat Rabbitte or Shane Ross were running as an independent, I might canvass for them - and even travel to do so, but that's not going to happen.

thebman

I'm not a member of any political party nor would I join any of Ireland's existing parties TBH.

I'm fairly disillusioned with the entire political system in Ireland and my votes influenced by political reform to try to get Irish politics working properly.

I'm sure I'm considered a ABFF by FF's on here but I'd vote for them if they had proper reforms but at the moment it looks like this will come from their time spent in opposition reforming the party and I think voting FF out of power in the next election will actually be good for FF as a party as it might let the better people in the party take control as the party is more likely to reflect on what is wrong with the party once they are not in government.

Watching FF party representatives on Frontline talking about the hard work on the ground and how they will get rewarded for it in elections, they don't seem bothered by the fact that these are supposed to be national elections. This is why I won't be voting FF in the next election. They simply don't think there is anything wrong with their party and I believe there is so how could I possibly vote for them at the moment?

Scofflaw

jmayo wrote:

You forgot people who post arguing for the greens

Not at all - I mentioned me separately. As with every other politics mod, I've been accused of being pro and anti every party and movement.

cordially,
Scofflaw

K-9

P. Breathnach wrote: »

It's fine if you do so for your own entertainment (lordy, we don't get much entertainment in the political sphere these days). Things become irksome when accusations are thrown around in the course of discussion here. The only thing I am willing to say here about my political position is that I am not a member or active supporter of any party. Yet I have been accused of being a member of at least three different parties (maybe four, but it's not worth the effort of checking). Such unfounded accusations achieve nothing useful, and seem like an effort to devalue any argument I might be making.

They really aren't worth responding too. Though if they continually do it, I think it is worth reporting to the mods as if that is is the sum of their contribution to the forum, well..................

P. Breathnach

K-9 wrote: »

They really aren't worth responding too. Though if they continually do it, I think it is worth reporting to the mods as if that is is the sum of their contribution to the forum, well..................

It's water off a duck's back where I am concerned, but it's starting to look as if accusing somebody of being a FF member/supporter/shill might be in breach of the forum charter on the basis that it could be considered to be intentionally offensive.

Scofflaw

P. Breathnach wrote: »

It's water off a duck's back where I am concerned, but it's starting to look as if accusing somebody of being a FF member/supporter/shill might be in breach of the forum charter on the basis that it could be considered to be intentionally offensive.

At this stage, anyone who actually supports Fianna Fáil is usually accused of trolling.

There is something of a problem with respect to the forum, in that the current government is so unpopular as to lead to a situation where the mere act of supporting any of their actions is felt to be contrary to the 'group culture'. That's not something I consider particularly desirable, since whether the majority here like it or not, people are entitled to vote Fianna Fáil - and to encourage others to do so - without being accused of treason, trolling, congenital idiocy, or being a paid shill. I may not, as they say, like what they're saying, but I am perfectly prepared to defend their right to say it.

cordially,
Scofflaw

P. Breathnach

Scofflaw wrote: »

... There is something of a problem with respect to the forum, in that the current government is so unpopular as to lead to a situation where the mere act of supporting any of their actions is felt to be contrary to the 'group culture'.

Let me focus on the phrase "any of their actions". Like many here (including our most vocal participants) I think FF are to be blamed for a great deal of what has gone wrong with our economy. But I do not think that everything done by every FF Minister was wrong, either in the series of decisions leading to the collapse or the actions taken since. Now and again I have indicated my approval of some FF decisions, and am very aware of the group culture of which you speak.

That's not something I consider particularly desirable, since whether the majority here like it or not, people are entitled to vote Fianna Fáil - and to encourage others to do so - without being accused of treason, trolling, congenital idiocy, or being a paid shill. I may not, as they say, like what they're saying, but I am perfectly prepared to defend their right to say it.

Politics is a complex business, and often messy. Very few people agree unreservedly with all views held by a political party (and I would be leery of those who do); equally, very few would disagree with every view held by a political party unless it was on the basis of who held the views rather than the views themselves.

K-9

P. Breathnach wrote: »

Let me focus on the phrase "any of their actions". Like many here (including our most vocal participants) I think FF are to be blamed for a great deal of what has gone wrong with our economy. But I do not think that everything done by every FF Minister was wrong, either in the series of decisions leading to the collapse or the actions taken since. Now and again I have indicated my approval of some FF decisions, and am very aware of the group culture of which you speak.



Politics is a complex business, and often messy. Very few people agree unreservedly with all views held by a political party (and I would be leery of those who do); equally, very few would disagree with every view held by a political party unless it was on the basis of who held the views rather than the views themselves.

Well, the problem is nearly all the actions taken by FF relating to the banking crisis have been proven to be wrong. NAMA, which wasn't necessarily a bad idea, just became too cumbersome and unwieldy, despite good intentions. If it had just composed of bad loans, it may have been a success. Taking over good loans too made its job too onerous. AFAIK, that was a Green stipulation to make it pass their conference and while well intentioned, proved a big mistake.

The guarantee was just pure folly, though McWilliams thought it was a great idea. Whether FG or Labours proposals would have avoided the problems, I don't know, but it has gone past that at this stage, as its the guarantee that ruined us.

In a way it is going to be a phoney election, as the question is just how many seats FG and Labour are going to get and are FF going to be obliterated, with how many SF and the others get being side issues really.

Drumpot

Briefly looked at the meaning of the phrase astroturfing and I think I can be accused of it.

I am not part of any party, but I try to push my own personal agenda - "Wake up and be objective and impartial in discussing and understanding politics".

I dont care who hates who, just that the right people are voted into the right positions. Of course we wont get it all right immediately, but if this kind of attitude encourages better alternatives to run for election, its a start.

I have considered (very seriously) getting into politics and spoke with a few locals about it. The Main reason I cannot do so at the moment is because I am self employed and simply cannot afford the time to canvass. I will not join a party and think as an independant I could change more (including culture within politics) without being bound by party ignorance.

I dont think hating FF solves anything, it just takes the focus off the most important thing at hand and thats choosing the right people in the next election. People should quit their anti FF rants and start talking about how we want our society to progress and how we do it. People will vote for FF whether they are slagged or not (nobody knows who votes for who!), so lets focus on educating people into valuing their vote, as opposed to simply voting for anybody but the current shower!

steelcityblues

Scofflaw wrote: »

At this stage, anyone who actually supports Fianna Fáil is usually accused of trolling.

There is something of a problem with respect to the forum, in that the current government is so unpopular as to lead to a situation where the mere act of supporting any of their actions is felt to be contrary to the 'group culture'. That's not something I consider particularly desirable, since whether the majority here like it or not, people are entitled to vote Fianna Fáil - and to encourage others to do so - without being accused of treason, trolling, congenital idiocy, or being a paid shill. I may not, as they say, like what they're saying, but I am perfectly prepared to defend their right to say it.

cordially,
Scofflaw

In fairness, there are some posters who are always adopting an antagonistic attitude with lines like 'You ABFFers won't like this' and such as such. Unfortunately, a few day ago on another thread I gave it back a bit too much against one of these type of posters out of annoyance.

It is hard for the rest of us to respect those who post in this fashion, govt. paid trolls or otherwise.

The woman on Frontline who described FG as Blueshirts is also part of that support your party like a football club mentality!

Scofflaw

steelcityblues wrote: »

In fairness, there are some posters who are always adopting an antagonistic attitude with lines like 'You ABFFers won't like this' and such as such. Unfortunately, a few day ago on another thread I gave it back a bit too much against one of these type of posters out of annoyance.

It is hard for the rest of us to respect those who post in this fashion, govt. paid trolls or otherwise.

The woman on Frontline who described FG as Blueshirts is also part of that support your party like a football club mentality!

That's true, we do get the "ABFFers" line thrown about a fair bit - but given what's thrown around at "FFers" by far greater numbers of posters it's not exactly a level pitch. The 'blueshirts' tag we're not sure about - it's a common enough piece of parlance (much as 'shinners') to have grandfathered itself into relative respectability, even though it's clearly a form of rallying call for the tribal FF mentality.

cordially,
Scofflaw

NewHillel

I am not, and never have been, a member of any political party.

I thought about joining the PD's in the early days - glad I didn't when they transmogrified into ultra right wing free marketeers.

I have never voted Fianna Fail but I admire Brian Lenihan and I would vote for him, were he in my constituency. I would love to see him lead FF.

I would never vote for SF, under any circumstances, I value democracy too highly.

raymon

Spacedog wrote: »

Many of the pre-election posts appearing lately on boards, politics and after hours specifically, appear to me as being blatent displays of Party Political Campeigners astroturfing our community.

I guess it is no different than campeigners being caught out on Questions and Answers, posing as a normal member of the public with a genuine concern.

Are there any regular posters here who are paid by a Political Party to post here as part of their work who have the honesty to admit it?

Spacedog - good luck in your efforts to find these charlatans

However I think your efforts are in vain

Here is why

1) Fianna Fail would hardly show their face on here after their
treason, perjury, forgery, lying, drunk driving, corruption , misrepresentation , brown envelope taking , tax evasion and incompetence .


2) The other parties dont need to show their faces here yet . There is enough real heartfelt anger already amongst the general public - me included

As for my own disclosure : I am not a member of any party . I dont vote for ex - murderers or violent people ( so the obvious parties are excluded here ) and I dont vote for traitors, perjurers, forgers, liars, drunk drivers, corrupt ex banking officials , misrepresenters , brown envelope takers , tax evaders and incompetent representatives . ( so that rules out most of FF and a couple of independents )


Anyway - good luck with your inquisition - i hope you find them

DeVore

He might not be able to but I can see much more....


Over the years we have watched ip's from the Office of the Taoiseach, ComReg, Dept of Justice, Dept of Finance and many others, wander around the site. Most are probably public sector workers using the site like any other office worker might. (ComReg paid a lot of interest to Broadband and Irelandoffline, but to be fair, thats to be expected).

We watched these ip's and looked at what they posted to ensure we werent being astroturfed and we werent... at that time. Now, post-Obama, there is an understanding that the internet is like a million doorsteps in one go. We can expect them to come knocking on ours soon enough.

If a political party wants to engage, we're actually quite keen to facilitate that and we'll give them Paul Gogarty-esque, "Verified Accounts". But if they start the nonsense of pretending to be an accountant from a small firm * then things will go badly for them.... this, is our world

DeV.
* a senior figure in Esat pretended to be a small firms accountant and went on about how much she loved Esat.... then someone posted an April Fools joke about how Esat were doubling their charges and she posted a hasty denial.... from the wrong account. It kicks off at post 15.

steelcityblues

Scofflaw wrote: »

That's true, we do get the "ABFFers" line thrown about a fair bit - but given what's thrown around at "FFers" by far greater numbers of posters it's not exactly a level pitch. The 'blueshirts' tag we're not sure about - it's a common enough piece of parlance (much as 'shinners') to have grandfathered itself into relative respectability, even though it's clearly a form of rallying call for the tribal FF mentality.

cordially,
Scofflaw

Don't agree with the Blueshirts term being acceptable, they were a fascist, Franco sympathiser group, led by a mentally unstable individual.

I'm certainly no FG supporter, but one noble thing they did was to show O'Duffy the door, and that potentially saved a lot of lives.

The fact that several FF supporters still use the term today, means it's intention is clearly to insult supporters of that party.

Scofflaw

steelcityblues wrote: »

Don't agree with the Blueshirts term being acceptable, they were a fascist, Franco sympathiser group, led by a mentally unstable individual.

I'm certainly no FG supporter, but one noble thing they did was to show O'Duffy the door, and that potentially saved a lot of lives.

The fact that several FF supporters still use the term today, means it's intention is clearly to insult supporters of that party.

That's my personal view, I admit. It's slightly more than an insult, though - it's also a reminder that you don't vote for Fine Gael, because they're the hereditary enemy.

cordially,
Scofflaw

P. Breathnach

steelcityblues wrote: »

...
The fact that several FF supporters still use the term [blueshirt] today, means it's intention is clearly to insult supporters of that party.

Quite a few FG supporters also use it.

Scofflaw

P. Breathnach wrote: »

Quite a few FG supporters also use it.

And various republicans.

cordially,
Scofflaw