Anonymous marking in NUIG

ZRelation

Skopzz wrote: »

At the end of the day, I am here to defend Students work.

And I wish you all the best in your noble cause.

Somewhat back OT though, the main reason anonymous marking isn't brought in is probably that its a bit of a nuisance in terms of marking and not enough people are requesting it to justify bringing it in. It is a good idea, even though tbh when I was marking scripts I couldn't have cared less who they belonged to.

Squeeonline

yer man! wrote: »

I did the pharmacology 2nd year paper this year I thought they were fairly harsh alright, now I didn't expect to come out with an A but i thought I deserved more than a D. Do a lot of people complain about the Pharmacology marking? seems to me that if you don't fill the exam with drug names you're not getting past a C.

I did the basic pharma thing last year as a 1 semester module. Loved it, and it really clicked eventually when studying. After the exam I was confident of 60-65% but to only get 50 really disappointed me. I asked for a re-check in case some of the cont. ass. was missed or an entire question, but no.

I think you're right about having to fill it with drug names to get anywhere.

Back on topic. I dont see the point of having to write your name when you have your id number written down. I do worry about some lecturers looking unfavourably on some students. Opposite is also unfair.

what was the reason given for not implementing this?

Can we all chip in and get Skopzz a dictionary for Christmas. He's either trolling or doesn't have a clue.

Ficheall

Squeeonline wrote: »

Back on topic. I dont see the point of having to write your name when you have your id number written down. I do worry about some lecturers looking unfavourably on some students. Opposite is also unfair.

Some students write down their ID number incorrectly.
If a student's script needs to be accessed or discussed, it's easier to use their name than a number.
When all the marks are being filled into whatever spreadsheet they're destined for, it's easier to say 'joe bloggs - X per cent' than '012345678 - X per cent'.
Also, if anonymous marking is brought in, it's only a matter of time before some similar ****e follows for oral and practical examinations, with externs being required to mark.

Simply - don't be a dick to the person who will be correcting your exam, and learn your stuff.

Squeeonline

Ficheall wrote: »

Some students write down their ID number incorrectly.
If a student's script needs to be accessed or discussed, it's easier to use their name than a number.
When all the marks are being filled into whatever spreadsheet they're destined for, it's easier to say 'joe bloggs - X per cent' than '012345678 - X per cent'.
Also, if anonymous marking is brought in, it's only a matter of time before some similar ****e follows for oral and practical examinations, with externs being required to mark.

If you cant write 8 numbers down correctly, should be doing an exam at a university level?

Ficheall wrote: »

Simply - don't be a dick to the person who will be correcting your exam, and learn your stuff.

QFT - but some lecturers do hold grudges for those who don't turn up to lectures. Unfair IMO.

ZRelation

Squeeonline wrote: »

If you cant write 8 numbers down correctly, should be doing an exam at a university level?

You'd be surprised how many people are incapable of doing such simple things under pressure in an exam.

TBH I don't think whether you're turning up to lectures or not will have a real bearing on how you'll be marked, or at least not in the sciences or engineering, as exams aren't so subjective.

If you're not turning up for project work and the lecturer notices then thats a different story.

Fisher Calhoun

ZRelation wrote: »

You'd be surprised how many people are incapable of doing such simple things under pressure in an exam.

TBH I don't think whether you're turning up to lectures or not will have a real bearing on how you'll be marked, or at least not in the sciences or engineering, as exams aren't so subjective.

If you're not turning up for project work and the lecturer notices then thats a different story.

You'd also be surprised how many students submit assignments without a name or ID number... it boggles the mind!

Squeeonline

Fisher Calhoun wrote: »

You'd also be surprised how many students submit assignments without a name or ID number... it boggles the mind!

Tough bollocks. They'd soon learn if they got zero for that exam. Examiners already make it clear before every exam to fill in the details.

Maybe doing this would force the evolution of students by removing the brainless. No harm I say.

Skrankio-X

I thought this was about the spate of Anonymous posters and graffiti I've seen up around the place recently. As in the 4chan peeps.

Never mind.

Squeeonline

yeah every time i see the thread, i think it's about that, and then i remember....

/disappointment

Columc

Skopzz wrote: »

The NUIG Pharmacology Department like to cut students down in their grades: Dr Kelly, Dr Dowd, Dr Grealy & Dr Welsby...

Do you have proof? if not dont discredit lectueres.

What it sounds like from you skopzz is that you didnt do well in your assignemnts and got a bad grade and are annoyed and trying to troll these parts.

If you dont like the way your grades are or the way they are marked bring it up with the Examination office.

blairbe

Skopzz wrote: »

You got an A? A rarity in NUIG Pharmacology, especially with the aforementioned Lecturers marking your paper. I shared class with your 3rd year Pharmacology compatriots last semester and those Lecturers set and marked our papers also. They mark first and second years VERY easy because second year carries forward very little % towards your final degree award. Third year (and especially fourth year) carry the most % towards your degree. When I studied my undergraduate, second year was only worth 15%, third year 30% and fourth year 55%.

In other words, you will soon discover that if you have the misfortune to study fourth year Pharmacology at NUIG, you're in for a big nasty surprise. They will cut you down.

This is bull****.. Did 4th year pharmacology in 2010 and got a 1.1. As far as I know most of the class got 1.1s and 2.1s. They are very supportive during final year, more so than other science departments in nuig. The standard of teaching is excellent. Nicest lecturers in NUIG.

Pharmacology is a hard science. You just have to work harder to get good marks.

Skopzz

Columc wrote: »

Do you have proof? if not dont discredit lectueres.

What it sounds like from you skopzz is that you didnt do well in your assignemnts and got a bad grade and are annoyed and trying to troll these parts.

If you dont like the way your grades are or the way they are marked bring it up with the Examination office.

Yes; the Pharmacology Department of NUIG want to retain their 'rave review' reputation by cutting your grades down (even if you do a good exam). They are desperately trying to fend-off budget cuts to their Department. They embark on a grade deflation campaign to appease the Government, thus helping avert potential budget cuts to their area.

And possibly another thing; they employ a British external examiner for the Pharmacology paper (anti-Irish secret agenda?) or could it be that they are simply ''in this together'' meaning no fair marking takes place?

Personally, I would not recommend studying Pharmacology at NUIG to ANYONE. On the outset, the syllabus is poorly planned, badly organised continuous exams, corrupt marking system etc..

In fact, one of the Lecturers has already left NUIG and found a job elsewhere - Now....! Do you still think I'm lying?

Skopzz

blairbe wrote: »

This is bull****.. Did 4th year pharmacology in 2010 and got a 1.1. As far as I know most of the class got 1.1s and 2.1s. They are very supportive during final year, more so than other science departments in nuig. The standard of teaching is excellent. Nicest lecturers in NUIG.

Pharmacology is a hard science. You just have to work harder to get good marks.

No bull****.... What you say is your opinion; nothing more, nothing less.

Yes I DID work hard, done a really good paper but came up against a grade pinching crowd of markers. No matter how hard I worked, I wasn't going to make the decent grade that I truly deserved.

Seriously, you need to look independently at this rather than just backing the Lecturers up because your mates done well on a 1:1 or 2:1. The Lecturers mark you easy ONLY when they WANT to.


Anonymous marking is desperately needed in Pharmacology.

brianthebard

Skopzz wrote: »

Yes; the Pharmacology Department of NUIG want to retain their 'rave review' reputation by cutting your grades down (even if you do a good exam). They are desperately trying to fend-off budget cuts to their Department. They embark on a grade deflation campaign to appease the Government, thus helping avert potential budget cuts to their area.

And possibly another thing; they employ a British external examiner for the Pharmacology paper (anti-Irish secret agenda?) or could it be that they are simply ''in this together'' meaning no fair marking takes place?

Personally, I would not recommend studying Pharmacology at NUIG to ANYONE. On the outset, the syllabus is poorly planned, badly organised continuous exams, corrupt marking system etc..

In fact, one of the Lecturers has already left NUIG and found a job elsewhere - Now....! Do you still think I'm lying?

*facepalm* lecturers move to different jobs all the time and getting an external examiner from England/Uk is common. Stop your conspiracy theories. Mod.

yer man!

Philip was my lecturer, he's gone traveling with his wife who was in biochemistry. Pharm is a pretty hard subject to study, I think the problem may be down to the fact that there isn't tutorials as it's so small of a dept and students may not know how to answer the questions properly as they are all essay questions and it's pretty easy to go wrong in them if you're not used to them even if you studied your a*s off. Many schools in nui use examiners in foreign countries, not unusual.

Skopzz

yer man! wrote: »

Philip was my lecturer, he's gone traveling with his wife who was in biochemistry. Pharm is a pretty hard subject to study, I think the problem may be down to the fact that there isn't tutorials as it's so small of a dept and students may not know how to answer the questions properly as they are all essay questions and it's pretty easy to go wrong in them if you're not used to them even if you studied your a*s off. Many schools in nui use examiners in foreign countries, not unusual.

Now you know who I'm talking about.

In December, he mentioned it was his last lecture and also his last day forever in NUIG, so someone's lying here and it isn't me. I've answered essay style questions for the past 3 years in previous studies, so I know how essay questions work inside-out. It's the way Pharmacology is marked at NUIG that is the problem. I would have zero faith in appealing my grade if I knew the external examiner was British (given the history between these two countries). I would simply be wasting my time and money.

Anonymous marking eliminates all this, provided the internal examiner is kept unknown to the external examiner as well as their location. If you were a Lecturer, you're going to back-up people in your own field whatever the cost.

Ficheall

Just to check - you're claiming that NUIG lecturers are deflating grades because they think it will get them more funding?
That's BS. The only problem on that score is that NUIG are increasing grades to up the numbers that graduate with high marks, thereby devaluing the NUIG degrees. It also seems to give people notions that they are entitled to a good mark for sub-par work, and they claim it's a conspiracy against them.

That said, you do strike me as the kind of person whom, if you were in my class, I would be disinclined to mark favourably. But generally, one would have to be a real jerk for the lecturer to even notice whose name was on the exam script.

Skopzz

Ficheall wrote: »

Just to check - you're claiming that NUIG lecturers are deflating grades because they think it will get them more funding?
That's BS. The only problem on that score is that NUIG are increasing grades to up the numbers that graduate with high marks, thereby devaluing the NUIG degrees. It also seems to give people notions that they are entitled to a good mark for sub-par work, and they claim it's a conspiracy against them.

That said, you do strike me as the kind of person whom, if you were in my class, I would be disinclined to mark favourably. But generally, one would have to be a real jerk for the lecturer to even notice whose name was on the exam script.

How many times do idiots need to be told there's NO grade inflation at NUIG, period.

I have been here for some time now and I know the trend. Only blindfolded sheep believe it's justified to deflate a students grade in order to give the college a plastic reputation on education standards. NUIG degree is worth little anyway - this University could be dwarfed by a similar degree from any U.S University (where they give you a grade you truly earn and deserve, like an A).

brianthebard

Skopzz infracted for insulting people. No more talk of grade deflation in this forum unless evidence is provided in the form of third party articles. Mod.

Ficheall

Look, I realise that English not being your first language might be causing you some confusion so I shall try to be clear when responding to your points:

Skopzz wrote: »

How many times do idiots need to be told there's NO grade inflation at NUIG, period.

Grade inflation is a huge problem in almost every institute of education in Ireland, and NUIG is no exception.
I, ZRelation, and probably many others can attest to this.
Failing that, here is a link: http://www.stopgradeinflation.ie/links_irl.html

Skopzz wrote: »

I have been here for some time now and I know the trend.

You have not been here as long as some of the others you are arguing with here, so that 'fact' does not lend any extra weight to your claims. I strongly suspect that you know very little about academic matters - or your branch of study, by the looks of things.

Skopzz wrote: »

Only blindfolded sheep believe it's justified to deflate a students grade in order to give the college a plastic reputation on education standards.

No one is saying that, except perhaps maybe yourself. On the contrary, most people here are arguing that NUIG is inflating grades to try and convince other colleges that we are a good college.

Skopzz wrote: »

NUIG degree is worth little anyway - this University could be dwarfed by a similar degree from any U.S University (where they give you a grade you truly earn and deserve, like an A).

Granted, the NUIG degree is worth comparitively little, but only because they hand out honours degrees to anyone who is prepared to put any amount of work in.
There are certain universities in the US which would certainly dwarf any qualification from NUIG, or any Irish university, but I very much doubt that you would get an A over there if you cannot even get one in NUIG...

Perhaps you should go to one of these other Universities and earn a qualification there - and then you can come back and complain that NUIG's courses are too easy and worthless, and that you were only denied some wonderful accolade because of some small-mindedness of your lectuters'?

blairbe

Skopzz wrote: »

No bull****.... What you say is your opinion; nothing more, nothing less.

Yes I DID work hard, done a really good paper but came up against a grade pinching crowd of markers. No matter how hard I worked, I wasn't going to make the decent grade that I truly deserved.

Seriously, you need to look independently at this rather than just backing the Lecturers up because your mates done well on a 1:1 or 2:1. The Lecturers mark you easy ONLY when they WANT to.


Anonymous marking is desperately needed in Pharmacology.

The class a whole did well not just my "mates". And we did better overall than most other 4th science classes.

If you have such a problem with it you should really ask to speak to one of the lecturers instead of complaining here. They will tell you what they expect in answers. It was always discussed in our lectures how to answer the exam questions and how to get over 70.

red_fox

Skopzz, you say you want anonymous marking because the lectures are cutting everyone down - but in that case it wouldn't matter if the marking is anomymous since if the idea is to reduce grades then it doesn't matter what name is on the paper, if any.

Prehaps you're looking for external marking of all exams by some universal independant body which can't distinguish the exams from UCD, NUIG, etc.

HotDogger

Never really got what all this fuss was about. How exactly do you manage to get your lecturers to dislike you? Then again, I guess you probably shouldn't fill out the teaching surveys:

Your answers are anonymous and completely confidential

[We] would like to hear your views on the quality of the teaching service we offer ... Your lecturer will receive a summary report and your feedback will be used to improve the delivery of the blah blah blah...

Kirsten Sassoon

I had an issue with a post doc student who took a maths module in NUIG. He wasn't very good and apparently lots of people complained about him in the SUMS maths help centre. For some reason, he thought I had complained about him and he tackled me about it, very unpleasant. I had nothing to do with it but I only got 66 % for his module, whereas my average for the other modules was 84%.

Fortunately, I didn't need extra marks from his module, but I am convinced he bore a mistaken grudge against me. I was very wary of approaching him about it.

I feel anonymous marking should be compulsory. Where's the harm in it. It also safeguards markers against claims of discrimination!

Ficheall

Kirsten Sassoon wrote: »

I had an issue with a post doc student who took a maths module in NUIG. He wasn't very good and apparently lots of people complained about him in the SUMS maths help centre. For some reason, he thought I had complained about him and he tackled me about it, very unpleasant. I had nothing to do with it but I only got 66 % for his module, whereas my average for the other modules was 84%.

Fortunately, I didn't need extra marks from his module, but I am convinced he bore a mistaken grudge against me. I was very wary of approaching him about it.

I feel anonymous marking should be compulsory. Where's the harm in it. It also safeguards markers against claims of discrimination!

Is it conceivable that the reason for your "low" grade might have been that you performed poorly in the exam?
Perhaps, due to the subject itself, or the alleged poor teaching ability, you found the module difficult? That is why you were in SUMS, yes?

tbahh

Ficheall wrote: »

Is it conceivable that the reason for your "low" grade might have been that you performed poorly in the exam?
Perhaps, due to the subject itself, or the alleged poor teaching ability, you found the module difficult? That is why you were in SUMS, yes?

One of my friends uses SUMS a lot and managed to get above 95% in all their modules.

Ficheall

Good for them?

Are you suggesting that this anecdotal evidence renders it improper for me to infer from Kirsten's post that she was in SUMS because she had difficulty with the module in question? I would surmise that a student capable of acing all her other exams yet claiming to have had one terrible teacher for an exam she did not do so well in, had she been seeking help, would have been doing so for the more troublesome subject.

If Kirsten believes she was unfairly graded, she ought to appeal the result. Especially given that the subject in question is a mathematics based subject, which would tend to have a clear and concise marking scheme. I, for one, would be curious to see where an examiner failed to award marks for a correct answer.

RolandIRL

Kirsten Sassoon wrote: »

I had an issue with a post doc student who took a maths module in NUIG. He wasn't very good and apparently lots of people complained about him in the SUMS maths help centre. For some reason, he thought I had complained about him and he tackled me about it, very unpleasant. I had nothing to do with it but I only got 66 % for his module, whereas my average for the other modules was 84%.

Fortunately, I didn't need extra marks from his module, but I am convinced he bore a mistaken grudge against me. I was very wary of approaching him about it.

I feel anonymous marking should be compulsory. Where's the harm in it. It also safeguards markers against claims of discrimination!

If you feel you've been marked down because of this alleged grudge, talk about it with the head of the school of maths. As Ficheall said, maths-based modules have a defined marking scheme and should be easier to correct* than, say, English essays. They've also put the marking scheme on the actual exam paper from this year just gone so you'll be able to see exactly where you've been marked down.

You can't be sure that it was this grudge that was the reason you got a lesser grade. Mistakes happen during marking of exams. I know of one girl who got about 70% in an exam, she felt she did better and rang up the lecturer. He went through each question with her and turned out that he forgot to tot up one question in the final tally, making her grade less than it should have been. Same thing happened to me in first year where my continuous assessment wasn't taken into account. One email to my lecturer and that was fixed.

Or you may just have done a bad exam. It happens. Performance in one module doesn't determine how you do in the rest of them.

Complaining about it on a message board isn't going to accomplish anything, go and talk to the head of the school if you feel you've been wronged. Most lecturers (that I've dealt with anyway) in the Maths department are very approachable and willing to help.

*Disclaimer: I have no experience in marking exams and presuming this based on what my lecturers have said.

Ficheall

Just checked the website - it would seem that the deadline for appeals and rechecks has closed. I do hope Kirsten got her appeal in on time.

I've done some marking of exam scripts and can confirm that it is a case of
"They wrote down the matrix. 3 marks. They made a small error in the matrix. Only 2 marks."
"They added the 2 vectors correctly? 2 marks."
"They seem to have a vague idea of how the proof should go? 3 marks."
etc.

Markers are usually very generous when marking, because they're nice, because it avoids the aggro of students getting their knickers in a twist, and sometimes the necessity of setting a repeat paper, and most importantly they are aware of NUIG's maxim of quantity over quality. I've seen markers fretting while trying to find a couple of extra marks they can give to bump a complete muppet up to a passing grade.

Mistakes happen during marking of exams.

Absolutely true. I've had the CA be left out of my overall mark before too.
More mistakes will happen if anonymous marking is introduced, due to human error.