Fake NCT

pejay

We bought our family car in July, it was sold with a full nct. I just found out today that the nct on our car is fake. I got a letter from the nct people telling me that the car was due for its next test, I thought this a bit funny so i went out and looked at the disk in the window, not due for another 14 months. I rang the them and asked about it according to them the car was last tested in may 2008, not this summer like it was supposed to have been done, in fact the date I have on the disk is february they confirmed it was fake. I rang the garage and was told to f**k off and more.
I have rang the guards and i have to go up to dublin( the local station from where i bought the car) and make a statement but this will have to wait until the roads are better.
For now do any of you know what I can do about this and what action i can take and also will i be entitled to get my money back or what happens in these sort of cases.

Any advice would be great thanks

-Corkie-

God knows what else is wrong so. Clocked,crashed etc.

HellFireClub

-Corkie- wrote: »

God knows what else is wrong so. Clocked,crashed etc.

This is the thing, first thing to do is check that when you put the key into the ignition and turn it on before actually starting the car, check that the following warning lamps come on at the dash:

Engine fault lamp
Airbag/SRS fault lamp
ABS lamp

If they lights above come on, they should all go off when the car is started, but my money says that when you do the above check, one of the lamps above will not come on because the bulb has been removed from behind the dash.

If an NCT has been faked, there is always a reason for it, because getting a decent car in servicable condition through the NCT process on a legitimate basis, is actually very easy for any half competent professional mechanic or aftersales outlet.

I'd imagine OP, your car was either: (a) involved in a serious crash and didn't have the airbags replaced and the airbag warning lamp was removed to hide this defect (which would cause the NCT to fail), or else the catalytic converter has possibly been cut out of the car or is unservicable and this would cause the engine warning lamp to come on, or else there is some other expensive and serious defect with the car that the faking of the NCT cert has been carried out to hide...

I've many years experience in this field OP, so feel free to PM me if you have any questions...

JustLen

Even if you dont wish to name and shame what kind of garage are we talking about? Large main dealer or is a small indie?

Id imagine it would be a good idea o get onto SIMI if its a Simi registered garage. (The society of the Irish motor Industry) if the dealer is registered it would be a good way to get formal proceedings underway

As corkie sais this could be just the tip of the iceberg in regards to other hidden problems

Do you mind letting us in on some info on the car? (Make, model, year?)

Contact info for SIMI;
http://www.simi.ie/utilities/contact_us.aspx

-Corkie-

JustLen wrote: »

Even if you dont wish to name and shame what kind of garage are we talking about? Large main dealer or is a small indie?

Id imagine it would be a good idea o get onto SIMI if its a Simi registered garage. (The society of the Irish motor Industry) if the dealer is registered it would be a good way to get formal proceedings underway

As corkie sais this could be just the tip of the iceberg in regards to other hidden problems

Do you mind letting us in on some info on the car? (Make, model, year?)

Contact info for SIMI;
http://www.simi.ie/utilities/contact_us.aspx

TBH I think the SIMI are a waste of time. Maybe to put the OP at ease he should run his car reg through www.motorcheck.ie and this will show mileage discrepincies and if the car was crashed.

Op should contact solicitor and get to that Garda station OP.

Alun

pejay wrote: »

I got a letter from the nct people telling me that the car was due for its next test, ...

A bit OT, but the NCTS don't send out reminders any more do they?

knifey_spoonie

Don't shoot me but,

How do ye all know the garage faked the NCT cert, It may have been done by the person who traded it in, but for them to tell you to F off is not on.

If they tell you to F off after a proper face to face, then work it out with them thru' your solicitor. Any garage that knowingly sells a car with a fake NCT deserves to be closed.

JustLen

-Corkie- wrote: »

TBH I think the SIMI are a waste of time. Maybe to put the OP at ease he should run his car reg through www.motorcheck.ie and this will show mileage discrepincies and if the car was crashed.

Op should contact solicitor and get to that Garda station OP.

I know, I know ive heard all the usuall stories about SIMI. Looking out fir the interests ofthe dealers more than the consumers. OP said the ball is rolling in regards to the gardai, just think it would be something else to do that could be recorded and used against the dealer.

On another note ive found from experience its better to hold off bombarding the accused party with phone calls and refrain from threats and quoting laws etc over the phone (not saying you have done or intend to but just saying.)
They will more than likely have ample ways of fobing you off so its better to let the gardai/ your solicitor do the talking

Hope this helps and best of luck

-Corkie-

JustLen wrote: »

I know, I know ive heard all the usuall stories about SIMI. Looking out fir the interests ofthe dealers more than the consumers. OP said the ball is rolling in regards to the gardai, just think it would be something else to do that could be recorded and used against the dealer.

On another note ive found from experience its better to hold off bombarding the accused party with phone calls and refrain from threats and quoting laws etc over the phone.
They will more than likely have ample ways of fobing you off so its better to let the gardai/ your solicitor do the talking

Hope this helps and best of luck

I suppose it would be no harm in ringing them anyway. This should make very intresting reading. I hope the op updates us..:)

I agree with you holding off on the phone calls but telling the op the f off..:mad:

martinr5232

Alun wrote: »

A bit OT, but the NCTS don't send out reminders any more do they?

They do I didnt think they did havent seen one in a long time but my mother got one the other day.

johnos1984

martinr5232 wrote: »

They do I didnt think they did havent seen one in a long time but my mother got one the other day.

I got one 2 weeks ago

Atlantic Dawn

When you say fake is it fake as in the disc is a shoddy copy done on a computer printer with no hologram or are you talking a proper disc with proper print?

sean1141

Alun wrote: »

A bit OT, but the NCTS don't send out reminders any more do they?

the aul chap got one the other day for a car that has been scraped over 8 months:eek:

-Corkie-

johnos1984 wrote: »

I got one 2 weeks ago

They must have changed the policy so.. At the start they didnt. There must have been several complaints about it I suppose.

whyulittle

Alun wrote: »

A bit OT, but the NCTS don't send out reminders any more do they?

Got one the other week, for a test that was due Jan 2010.

johnos1984

-Corkie- wrote: »

They must have changed the policy so.. At the start they didnt. There must have been several complaints about it I suppose.

Mine was a first time NCT and the car had just been registered so that may of had something to do with it.

I had already booked it though and it arrived the same day as my confirmation letter

zapata

Check the engine number and chassis number on the car match that of the registration certificate.
Con artists and forgers are excellent at their trade and very often fool the most experienced garda and revenue officials.

Fittle

Alun wrote: »

A bit OT, but the NCTS don't send out reminders any more do they?

I don't think they do either - I've had two cars in the past 6 months and had to put both through NCT - never got a letter for either of them. Was told by NCT Ballymun that they don't send out reminder letters anymore, only confirmation letters (when you book by phone).
Just my twohapence.

kazul

HellFireClub wrote: »

or else the catalytic converter has possibly been cut out of the car or is unservicable and this would cause the engine warning lamp to come on,

I've many years experience in this field OP, so feel free to PM me if you have any questions...

Ahem, I took the catalytic convertor off my car and engine check light functions normally.
I have relatively little experience in this field, but PM me if you want OP.

ormondprop

Fittle wrote: »

I don't think they do either - I've had two cars in the past 6 months and had to put both through NCT - never got a letter for either of them. Was told by NCT Ballymun that they don't send out reminder letters anymore, only confirmation letters (when you book by phone).
Just my twohapence.

i know the nct centre in nenagh posts out letters for first time nct's but after that its up to you to book it when the nct is up

pejay

knifey_spoonie wrote: »

Don't shoot me but,

How do ye all know the garage faked the NCT cert, It may have been done by the person who traded it in, but for them to tell you to F off is not on.

If they tell you to F off after a proper face to face, then work it out with them thru' your solicitor. Any garage that knowingly sells a car with a fake NCT deserves to be closed.

We got on to the nct head office they confirmed that cert is fake, the test for that cert never took place

johnos1984

ormondprop wrote: »

i know the nct centre in nenagh posts out letters for first time nct's but after that its up to you to book it when the nct is up

Thats where mine came from

pejay

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

When you say fake is it fake as in the disc is a shoddy copy done on a computer printer with no hologram or are you talking a proper disc with proper print?

It is a proper disk with a hologram, It is the serial number that is not valid

HellFireClub

kazul wrote: »

Ahem, I took the catalytic convertor off my car and engine check light functions normally.
I have relatively little experience in this field, but PM me if you want OP.

Well maybe your vehicle only has one lambda sensor that is upstream of the catalytic converter and therefore you don't get a fault generated, either way though you will most likely fail your NCT emissions test if you remove your catalytic converter, and to remedy this is expensive, so your point about the engine light being on or off it really just academic, the outcome is most likely the same regardless of the ECU fault state, which is expense where you would not expect to meet an expense.

-Corkie-

pejay wrote: »

It is a proper disk with a hologram, It is the serial number that is not valid

Can you keep us updated pejay on what happens?

ormondprop

hardluck pejay, i hope the dealer gets whats coming to him, out of interest did it come with an nct cert or just the disc

pejay

It came with the disk in the window but the sheet of paper it came outof was in the glove box

ormondprop

obviously have somebody in an nct center who is "misplacing" certs so if it is the real deal with the hologram and all, i wonder would there be any way to track where the cert came from if this is the case

Our man in Havana

ormondprop wrote: »

obviously have somebody in an nct center who is "misplacing" certs so if it is the real deal with the hologram and all, i wonder would there be any way to track where the cert came from if this is the case

Of course they could trace NCT centre it was stolen from.

pejay

-Corkie- wrote: »

Can you keep us updated pejay on what happens?

No probs, have a feeling it will be one of those long drawn out battles to get me money back

Thanks for all the replys

High energy

I would be taking that garage to court, it's fraud. Whether the nct was fake before they got the car or not, it's their responsibility to ensure what they are selling is legitimate.

pejay

We are meeting the guards tomorrow to make a statement so that should start things off

johnos1984

If your car has no NCT and is possibly unsafe your insurance may not cover you in the event of an accident.

Also the Gardaí may not be happy if you continue to drive it.

Just some food for thought, I also hope you get this sorted ASAP

pejay

Thanks johno, Ive parked It up

William Powell

pejay wrote: »

Thanks johno, Ive parked It up

Make sure its parked up safely (+ photo copy and keep fake certs safe) as you woudn't want the evidence to vanish overnight.

cormac_byrne

You could actually submit it for a new NCT.

A fail cert would be more ammo to hit the garage with.
(and let you know what exactly is wrong with the car)

On the other hand it could pass (or only have trivial fails)

There is the possibility that the car did go for for it's NCT this summer and passed and the engineer printed out the cert, but didn't update the computer record, or more likely produced an incorrect record on the computer.

Now you would have a cert which is valid, but the computer thinks your car has not been seen since 2008 and hence the letter asking you to retest.

Gophur

HellFireClub wrote: »

....................
..................
I'd imagine OP, your car was either: (a) involved in a serious crash and didn't have the airbags replaced and the airbag warning lamp was removed to hide this defect (which would cause the NCT to fail), or else the catalytic converter has possibly been cut out of the car or is unservicable and this would cause the engine warning lamp to come on, or else there is some other expensive and serious defect with the car that the faking of the NCT cert has been carried out to hide...................

They are some fairly outlandish assumptions to draw. You have no basis whatsoever for making them.

Maybe the car is OK? Or does that just not suit?

cadaliac

cormac_byrne wrote: »

You could actually submit it for a new NCT.

A fail cert would be more ammo to hit the garage with.
(and let you know what exactly is wrong with the car)

On the other hand it could pass (or only have trivial fails)

There is the possibility that the car did go for for it's NCT this summer and passed and the engineer printed out the cert, but didn't update the computer record, or more likely produced an incorrect record on the computer.

Now you would have a cert which is valid, but the computer thinks your car has not been seen since 2008 and hence the letter asking you to retest.

No, sorry, don't do anything with the car.
Let the garage pay for ANY test to be done from here on in. Also, the OP said the NCT center said that the cert was a fake - so it was not "misplaced" or a computer error.
To me it looks like a scam.
Let 'em hang I say. As someone already said, it is up to the garage to verify that the cert was real or not.
However, if it was a genuine mistake on behalf of the garage, I'm sure they will be able fix the situation. Not taking the side of the garage but the previous owner could have pulled a fast one also.
Either way, the garage will have to sort it out.

William Powell

Gophur wrote: »

They are some fairly outlandish assumptions to draw. You have no basis whatsoever for making them.

Maybe the car is OK? Or does that just not suit?

So why would you risk selling a car with a fake NCT?

Gophur

William Powell wrote: »

So why would you risk selling a car with a fake NCT?

I wouldn't so the question, to me, is irrelevant.

Why the OP was sold one with a fake disc?
I don't know, but I'm not one to draw such ridiculous conclusions as some others have.

Let the OP get the car tested/inspected and then we'll know what, if any, problems he has.

William Powell

Gophur wrote: »

I wouldn't so the question, to me, is irrelevant.

Why the OP was sold one with a fake disc?
I don't know, but I'm not one to draw such ridiculous conclusions as some others have.

Let the OP get the car tested/inspected and then we'll know what, if any, problems he has.

I think the points the others are making is that its not that difficult to get a genuine NCT and the main reasons for getting a fake would be that it would be very expensive to get an NCT or would never get an NCT.

Now thats hardly a ridiculous conclusion is it?

fred252

is the cert;

(a) a fake, a very good fake with a hologram etc

or

(b) its an original copy from the NCT that hasn't gone through their system for whatever reason (either stolen or a clerical error)


For (a) to be the case I doubt a high quality fake document has been created for 1 car. Its more likely to be a bigger issue and there would be a lot of these certs out there. If (b) is the case then the NCT are culpable in which case they should not be telling you this is a fake. They will have on record all the serial numbers whether they've been used or torn up (due to a dodgy printer or whatever) or not entered correctly in the system. If they don't have all the serial numbers on record then its fair to say that its a very poorly run organization which is possible in this country.

I guess the most likely scenario is that someone in the NCT got a cert for his/her mate without entering it in the system. His/her mate either works in the garage or sold the car to the garage. If this is the case then the NCT are to blame and they should sack the employee and do a new NCT for free and pay for any work that needs to be done to get the car to pass the. However I guess they'll insist it is a fake and the garage will end up having to pay.

Is it standard operating procedure for garages to confirm NCT certs when they buy used cars or take trade-ins?

voxpop

fred252 wrote: »

Is it standard operating procedure for garages to confirm NCT certs when they buy used cars or take trade-ins?

You can check it yourself easily on the nct site once you have the first registered date from the vlc. Started checking this myself with any new car.

fred252

voxpop wrote: »

You can check it yourself easily on the nct site once you have the first registered date from the vlc. Started checking this myself with any new car.

so i assume garages would do this check?

Atomic Pineapple

fred252 wrote: »

so i assume garages would do this check?

I wouldn't assume a garage has done anything without evidence.

cormac_byrne

cadaliac wrote: »

No, sorry, don't do anything with the car.
Let the garage pay for ANY test to be done from here on in. Also, the OP said the NCT center said that the cert was a fake

To clarify, I'm not saying to onus is on the OP to get the Car a new NCT.
But that may be the simplest / cheapest / quickest way to resolve issue.

I'd ignore the fact the person who answered the phone at the NCT says the cert is a fake, that's no doubt a standard response if it doesn't appear on their system.

JimmyCrackCorn

pejay wrote: »

We bought our family car in July, it was sold with a full nct. I just found out today that the nct on our car is fake. I got a letter from the nct people telling me that the car was due for its next test, I thought this a bit funny so i went out and looked at the disk in the window, not due for another 14 months. I rang the them and asked about it according to them the car was last tested in may 2008, not this summer like it was supposed to have been done, in fact the date I have on the disk is february they confirmed it was fake. I rang the garage and was told to f**k off and more.
I have rang the guards and i have to go up to dublin( the local station from where i bought the car) and make a statement but this will have to wait until the roads are better.
For now do any of you know what I can do about this and what action i can take and also will i be entitled to get my money back or what happens in these sort of cases.

Any advice would be great thanks

Notify the Guardai end of story.

feelites

JimmyCrackCorn wrote: »

Notify the Guardai end of story.

and bring the car to NCT centre for the test


it might be nothing wrong with it.

Guy:Incognito

cadaliac wrote: »

. Also, the OP said the NCT center said that the cert was a fake .

In fairness your dealing with a person at the end of the day and peopel are very prone to be overly dramtic. I've come across tons of people in my time whos reaction to any hint of something being up is to dive in with thingsd like "fake" when there could be other explantions.

I'm not saying its not fake, looks like it most likely is but the words of a possibly very excitable person on the end of a phone is not proof.

fred252

Hey Pejay,

Any update on this?

Nissan doctor

If it is now a legal case then there won't be anything else here untill its sorted...