Munster vs Ospreys HEC Match Thread, Sun 12 Dec 1pm, Sky Sports 2

thomond2006

Heineken Cup Squad Named
8 December 2010, 1:42 pm

After completing a squad training session in Garryowen FC, Tony McGahan named a 28 man squad for Munster's round three Heineken Cup clash against Ospreys in Thomond Park on Sunday Dec. 12th, ko 1pm.

Donnacha Ryan returns to the Munster squad this week after seeing out his three week suspension picked up during the November internationals. The match day 23 will be named on Friday at midday.

Munster Squad:
Wian du Preez, Damien Varley, Mike Sherry, Darragh Hurley, John Hayes, Tony Buckley, Dave Ryan,
Donncha O’Callaghan, Paul O’Connell, Mick O’Driscoll, Donnacha Ryan,
James Coughlan, David Wallace, Alan Quinlan, Niall Ronan, Denis Leamy,

Tomas O’Leary, Peter Stringer, Ronan O’Gara, Paul Warwick,
Johne Murphy, Lifeimi Mafi, Tom Gleeson, Scott Deasy, Denis Hurley, Sam Tuitupou, Keith Earls, Doug Howlett.


http://www.munsterrugby.ie/news/8375.php

Barry Murphy isn't registered for the HEC squad so he is unavailable, same with Ian Nagle: http://www.ercrugby.com/eng/matchcentre/munster_rugby.php?section=2

I'd like to see:
Du Preez, Varley, Buckley, DOC, MOD, Quinlan, Wallace, Leamy;
Stringer, ROG, J Murphy, Tuitupou, Earls, Howlett, Warwick

Bench: Sherry, Hayes, Dave Ryan, POC, Coughlan, TOL, Deasy, Hurley

There is also the option of putting Murphy alongside Earls but I think they will stick with Tuitupou at 12. Mafi looked completely off the pace and I'll be really disappointed if he makes the 23 having done nothing to merit it.

The Ospreys are missing Shane Williams and Lee Byrne through injury and Marty Holah through suspension. All 3 are massive players for them but the Os have not too shabby replacements to come in, with the likes of Tipuric, Walker, Fussell, Davies and Owen all waiting in the wings.

The match is a sellout.

onlyrocknroll

thomond2006 wrote: »

Barry Murphy isn't registered for the HEC squad so he is unavailable, same with Ian Nagle: http://www.ercrugby.com/eng/matchcentre/munster_rugby.php?section=2

I'd like to see:
Du Preez, Varley, Buckley, DOC, MOD, Quinlan, Wallace, Leamy;
Stringer, ROG, J Murphy, Tuitupou, Earls, Howlett, Warwick

Bench: Sherry, Hayes, Dave Ryan, POC, Coughlan, TOL, Deasy, Hurley

There is also the option of putting Murphy alongside Earls but I think they will stick with Tuitupou at 12. Mafi looked completely off the pace and I'll be really disappointed if he makes the 23 having done nothing to merit it.

I'd agree with that almost entirely. Only I'd say Donnacha Ryan on the bench instead of POC. If there's an injury in the second row I wouldn't feel confident with a not-fully-fit POC getting 40mins+ of high intensity rugby. Not just for out of fear of the result for this match, but more for his own recovery.

Beanmachine

Is your title wrong? Sunday is the 12th isn't it.

CouchSmart

Personally I'd go for Leamy, Wallace and Coughlan. Coughlan has been one of Munsters best performers this year, limited though he is.

Might be a bit too soon to risk POC on the bench. It's a tough call for McGahan.

phog

If thay wanted to have O'Connell on the bench they could take a hit on Deasy and use Donnacha Ryan as an extra forward on the subs. Also, I'd like to see Coughlan start but then that would probaly be at the expense of Quinny so I'm not sure

Isn't it great that the team doesn't actually pick itself and that there is real competition for places.

buck65

I'd have Niall Ronan or Quinny on the bench to cover the fly half position. What with their kicking skills and all.

danthefan

It'll be interesting to see if Ronan makes the bench now with all available. McGahan can't seem to come to terms with the fact he's rubbish. Even without him then there isn't room in the squad for all of POC, DOC, MOD, Ryan, Quinlan, Wallace, Leamy, Coughlan, and I'd expect Coughlan will lose out even though imo he deserves to be starting.

2smiggy

lee byrne injured for the 2 matches, holah banned for the 2 matches, and also shane williams out long term.

good news for munster

edit: sorry seen OP mentioned this, feel more confident all the same though

Munster by at least 15 including a 4 try bp.

some_dose

I really hope that Munster don't let the fact that 3 of the Osprey's 1st team are out go to their head. Such complacency could prove disastrous.

I'd love to see PO'C get some game time though only if he is up to it.

twinytwo

2smiggy wrote: »

lee byrne injured for the 2 matches, holah banned for the 2 matches, and also shane williams out long term.

good news for munster

edit: sorry seen OP mentioned this, feel more confident all the same though

Even with them... apart from every munster player forgetting how to play rubgy... Im going for the hairsprays getting battered off the pitch.

bleg

So long as Mafi is nowhere near the 22 I'll be happy enough.

irishbucsfan

I'd prefer to see a backrow of Leamy, Wallace, Coughlan

Risteard

1.Du Preez
2.Varley
3.Buckley
4.DOC
5.MOD
6.Leamy
7.Wallace
8.Coughlan
9.Stringer
10.ROG
11.Howlett
12.Tuitoupou
13.Earls
14.Murphy
15.Warwick

16.Sherry
17.Ryan
18.Hayes
19.POC
20.Ryan
21.TOL
22.Hurley
23.Mafi

Would be my preference.

thomond2006

Risteard wrote: »

1.Du Preez
2.Varley
3.Buckley
4.DOC
5.MOD
6.Leamy
7.Wallace
8.Coughlan
9.Stringer
10.ROG
11.Howlett
12.Tuitoupou
13.Earls
14.Murphy
15.Warwick

16.Sherry
17.Ryan
18.Hayes
19.POC
20.Ryan
21.TOL
22.Hurley
23.Mafi

Would be my preference.

Ryan has never looked like a good backrow, I wouldn't have him covering it.

I'm intrigued at your lack of preference for Quinlan.

They picked a 7-2 split on the bench against Toulon, they may well have POC, Ryan and a recognised backrow on the bench. POC doesn't look up to a near 80 minute performance if a lock goes down early.

phog

Pearson out for Saturday being replace by Bardos, that's 2 french refs we'll have for the back to back games.

Cpt_Blackbeard

phog wrote: »

Pearson out for Saturday being replace by Bardos, that's 2 french refs we'll have for the back to back games.

Sure whats the problem with that?

Refs are all impartial and work from the same rulebook after all :cool:

I think I'd rather have Ospreys have Byrne, Hollah and Williams back for the games than facing Berdos then Poite. If we had any chance of losing the back to backs this is it.

Even worse that 2 SA refs aren't involved in the 6 nations basically due to poor officiating of Ireland in the scrums in the AIs. Article in the English Indo about it:Link :eek:

sock puppet

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

Even worse that 2 SA refs aren't involved in the 6 nations basically due to poor officiating of Ireland in the scrums in the AIs. Article in the English Indo about it:Link :eek:

Oh great. So instead of Lawrence we'll now be treated to Steve Walsh.

PhatPiggins

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

Sure whats the problem with that?

Refs are all impartial and work from the same rulebook after all :cool:

I think I'd rather have Ospreys have Byrne, Hollah and Williams back for the games than facing Berdos then Poite. If we had any chance of losing the back to backs this is it.

Even worse that 2 SA refs aren't involved in the 6 nations basically due to poor officiating of Ireland in the scrums in the AIs. Article in the English Indo about it:Link :eek:

Graham Henry loves Saffer refs so I'd still expect them to be at the WC. I'd prefer if they were maintained as linesmen for the HC/6N's. There's no other way they're going to learn to ref NH teams.

buck65

danthefan wrote: »

It'll be interesting to see if Ronan makes the bench now with all available. McGahan can't seem to come to terms with the fact he's rubbish. Even without him then there isn't room in the squad for all of POC, DOC, MOD, Ryan, Quinlan, Wallace, Leamy, Coughlan, and I'd expect Coughlan will lose out even though imo he deserves to be starting.

:rolleyes:
You've clearly watched alot of Munster this season and the Munster v Australia game then.

thomond2006

buck65 wrote: »

:rolleyes:
You've clearly watched alot of Munster this season and the Munster v Australia game then.

I wouldn't have him in the 23. Not because I don't like/rate him, just because I think Coughlan is a better player.

I have a feeling they may go with a 7-2 split. Now that Ryan is in the A squad, it would be POC, Ronan and Coughlan.

Rumoured Ospreys Team:
15 B Davies
14 T Bowe
13 A Bishop
12 J Hook
11 R Fussell
10 D Biggar
9 M Phillips

1 P James
2 R Hibbard
3 A Jones
4 R Jones
5 AW Jones c
6 J Collins
7 J Tipuric
8 J Thomas

That XV doesn't really scare me at all.

Cpt_Blackbeard

thomond2006 wrote: »

I wouldn't have him in the 23. Not because I don't like/rate him, just because I think Coughlan is a better player.

I have a feeling they may go with a 7-2 split. Now that Ryan is in the A squad, it would be POC, Ronan and Coughlan.

Rumoured Ospreys Team:
15 B Davies
14 T Bowe
13 A Bishop
12 J Hook
11 R Fussell
10 D Biggar
9 M Phillips

1 P James
2 R Hibbard
3 A Jones
4 R Jones
5 AW Jones c
6 J Collins
7 J Tipuric
8 J Thomas

That XV doesn't really scare me at all.

If POC is on the bench Quinlan has to be involved somewhere in case one of the other locks gets injured in the first 20 mins or so; Paulie is not ready for 60mins yet.

I think the bench you're talking about will be the one. Ronan can cover the backs if the need arises. Personally I'd like Coughlan to start with Quinnie on the bench for second and back row cover though.

Rumours are that TOL is starting too, which is just ridiculous tbh. :mad:

CiaranMT

It looks like POC will be on the bench now with Dryan goin to the A match in Caledonia.

CiaranMT

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

If POC is on the bench Quinlan has to be involved somewhere in case one of the other locks gets injured in the first 20 mins or so; Paulie is not ready for 60mins yet.

I think the bench you're talking about will be the one. Ronan can cover the backs if the need arises. Personally I'd like Coughlan to start with Quinnie on the bench for second and back row cover though.

Rumours are that TOL is starting too, which is just ridiculous tbh. :mad:

Ronan's ability to cover the backs shouldn't be mentioned at all as a reason to include, given we're back to full strength at the back. I think he merits inclusion alright, but I wouldn't be surprised to see him left out. Coughlan, Leamy and Wally with Quinlan on the bench will be very intimidating for the Hairsprays, especially now that Holah is gone.

Cpt_Blackbeard

CiaranMT wrote: »

Ronan's ability to cover the backs shouldn't be mentioned at all as a reason to include, given we're back to full strength at the back. I think he merits inclusion alright, but I wouldn't be surprised to see him left out. Coughlan, Leamy and Wally with Quinlan on the bench will be very intimidating for the Hairsprays, especially now that Holah is gone.

Its important on Sunday though because ~4 of our forwards can't play a full match at this level due to age and fitness (Bull, POC, Quinlan, Wallace). We need Ronan for Wallace, but he will also slot in with the backs if we get an injury or 2.

Once POC is back to full fitness, I can't see Quinlan making the HC team for every match, but he needs to be there for his ability to cover 4,5,6,7,8 while Paulie is still only able to play ~30mins max.

Currently I'd say our best backrow is Leamy, Wallace, Coughlan but Quinny and Ronan are well able to slot in and out of that.

PhatPiggins

Wallace has looked miles of the pace in both the green and red jerseys this season. Don't know how you can claim he'd be part of our best back row.

Ronan is playing very well bar the last game. Seems to have bulked up a bit. Quinlan hasn't done anything of worth in a while now other then the pest factor.

Cpt_Blackbeard

PhatPiggins wrote: »

Wallace has looked miles of the pace in both the green and red jerseys this season. Don't know how you can claim he'd be part of our best back row.

Ronan is playing very well bar the last game. Seems to have bulked up a bit. Quinlan hasn't done anything of worth in a while now other then the pest factor.

Thats a bit of an exaggeration. He has been off his best form, but still a very good player. Ronan is a great link man between the forwards and backs, but that is pretty much his whole game. His drop goal last week was just crazy, he almost deserves a dropping for that alone.

He has bulked up but is still no where near the size of an international backrow, although I've no problem with his size due to the type of game he plays. He is by no means the physical player who thrives in contact like Wallace.

If we play Stringer Ronan may suit the quicker more expansive game, and likewise with Wallace playing if TOL manages to get near the pitch. How he is an international player despite having passing skills that wouldn't get him a spot in the AIL is beyond me; He is great in defense but is by no means a 9, but that is a rant for another thread :cool:.

Ronan is a good player but is no where near the player Wallace was and Wallace is still above him imo.

I'll assume you weren't watching the match at the weekend re. Quinlan doing nothing of worth...

thomond2006

PhatPiggins wrote: »

Wallace has looked miles of the pace in both the green and red jerseys this season. Don't know how you can claim he'd be part of our best back row.

Ronan is playing very well bar the last game. Seems to have bulked up a bit. Quinlan hasn't done anything of worth in a while now other then the pest factor.

Not true at all. He was outstanding (that 'clearance' aside) at the weekend and he was the best player on the park when these two sides met in the Magners in September.

danthefan

thomond2006 wrote: »

Not true at all. He was outstanding (that 'clearance' aside) at the weekend and he was the best player on the park when these two sides met in the Magners in September.

He really wasn't. I have no idea how you've come to that conclusion.

Cpt_Blackbeard

Lads there is no point arguing about a game that nobody could see tbh

I didn't see the whole game myself (working in Thomond Park has its disadvantages) but from what I saw Quinny looked good. He is a hard player for many fans to appreciate because his game is all about what you don't see, or shouldn't see at least. He is a big game player and probably is the right type of player to annoy the hairsprays, with Coughlan replacing him ~60 mins.

murphym7

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

Lads there is no point arguing about a game that nobody could see tbh

I didn't see the whole game myself (working in Thomond Park has its disadvantages) but from what I saw Quinny looked good. He is a hard player for many fans to appreciate because his game is all about what you don't see, or shouldn't see at least. He is a big game player and probably is the right type of player to annoy the hairsprays, with Coughlan replacing him ~60 mins.

Exactly right, what was this drop goal attempt that Ronan had - I was pretty locked in the bar that night? I couldnt see the match for two reasons!:o

buck65

Quinlan didn't stand out for me last week but in fairness who did, it was a game that neither side really committed to I felt.
I would still have him in the squad though. I agree with you Thomond that Coughlan should be also in the squad. Apart from a bad game against the Dragons he has been the torch bearer in the pack during the AI's.
Leaving Wallace out would not be an option, yes his powers are on the wane but he is still the best 7 around I think.
My team would be
Warwick, Howlett, Earls, Sammy, Murphy, RoG, Stringer,
duPreez, Varley, Buckley, DOC, MOD, Quinlan, Wallace, Leamy

Sherry, Hurley , Hayes, POC, Coughlan, O Leary, Mafi, Hurley.

phog

buck65 wrote: »

Quinlan didn't stand out for me last week but in fairness who did, it was a game that neither side really committed to I felt.
I would still have him in the squad though. I agree with you Thomond that Coughlan should be also in the squad. Apart from a bad game against the Dragons he has been the torch bearer in the pack during the AI's.
Leaving Wallace out would not be an option, yes his powers are on the wane but he is still the best 7 around I think.
My team would be
Warwick, Howlett, Earls, Sammy, Murphy, RoG, Stringer,
duPreez, Varley, Buckley, DOC, MOD, Quinlan, Wallace, Leamy

Sherry, Ryan , Borlase, POC, Coughlan, O Leary, Mafi, Deasy.

Hard to disagree with that but I cant see O'Leary starting from the bench, I think he'll wear the No9 jersey and Borlease is named on the Munster A squad so that rules him out for Sunday. Also, I think McGahon may drop one of the backs in favour of an extra forward to cover for O'Connell in case things go pear shaped.

calvin_zola

Munster will put it up to them, but handy win for the Ospreys

Otacon

calvin_zola wrote: »

Munster will put it up to them, but handy win for the Ospreys

Sorry but what's your basis for this?

Munster have been playing quite well recently, despite a lack of numbers due to suspension, injury and Internatonal duty. We now have a full team.

The Ospreys are playing well enough but have some big injuries to contend with in Byrne, Williams and Hollah out.

Personally I would swap 'Munster' and 'Ospreys' in your statement.

Auvers

calvin_zola wrote: »

Munster will put it up to them, but handy win for the Ospreys

stick to the auld Waterford GAA zola

because you obviously your rugby knowledge is sadly lacking

calvin_zola

My gut feeling is all

calvin_zola

Auvers wrote: »

because you obviously your rugby knowledge is sadly lacking

right up there with your literacy skills

buck65

Welcome to Rugby boards Calvin. You may well be right and you can feel proud of making a prediction that few will make. I reckon Munster are 6/1 to win here but there's always the chance.
Might your gut explain where the Ospreys will get the upper hand or does it verbalise it's hunches?


Team picked
Warwick,Howlett, Earls ,Sammy ,Murphy ,RoG ,O Leary
WDP, Varley, Buckley, DOC, MOD,Coughlan ,Wallace ,Leamy.


Bench - Sherry, Hurley, Hayes, POC, Quinlan, Stringer, Mafi, Hurley

calvin_zola

buck65 wrote: »

Welcome to Rugby boards Calvin. You may well be right and you can feel proud of making a prediction that few will make. I reckon Munster are 6/1 to win here but there's always the chance.
Might your gut explain where the Ospreys will get the upper hand or does it verbalise it's hunches?

I think the fact that Ospreys are missin Lee Byrne and Holah they would appear to be diminished and Munster will fancy to take them, especially considering they thumped the Ospreys last season, but Ospreys have nothing to lose going into this game, I have no doubt that the replacements Ospreys bring in will step up to the plate....

Ospreys don't fear Munster however after beating them in the Magniers twice last year, and they have consistenly featured in the last 8 of the Cup the last 3 seasons..

This makes for an interesting game where one team is better (Munster) but neither team fear each other, in fact Ospreys might feel quietly condfident of an upset considering they are missing a duo and so the odds would appear to be stacked against them

It is the group of death remember so I expected some surprises when it was drawn, I reckon tonights the night...

Remember I did say "Gut" feeling, I never said anything about Ospreys being the better team...

Auvers

cant believe TOL was given the nod ahead of Stringer, other than that the team looks very strong

twinytwo

calvin_zola wrote: »

I think the fact that Ospreys are missin Lee Byrne and Holah they would appear to be diminished and Munster will fancy to take them, especially considering they thumped the Ospreys last season, but Ospreys have nothing to lose going into this game, I have no doubt that the replacements Ospreys bring in will step up to the plate....

Ospreys don't fear Munster however after beating them in the Magniers twice last year, and they have consistenly featured in the last 8 of the Cup the last 3 seasons..

This makes for an interesting game where one team is better (Munster) but neither team fear each other, in fact Ospreys might feel quietly condfident of an upset considering they are missing a duo and so the odds would appear to be stacked against them

It is the group of death remember so I expected some surprises when it was drawn, I reckon tonights the night...

Remember I did say "Gut" feeling, I never said anything about Ospreys being the better team...

only problem is you are forgetting 3 very important facts..

1)Its Munster
2)At thomond
3)for the HC

it will take some team to beat us at home... ospreys are not that team

calvin_zola

twinytwo wrote: »

only problem is you are forgetting 3 very important facts..

1)Its Munster
2)At thomond
3)for the HC

it will take some team to beat us at home... ospreys are not that team

no I think you'll find I remembered that, I did say that Munster will be the better team

buck65

twinytwo wrote: »

only problem is you are forgetting 3 very important facts..

1)Its Munster
2)At thomond
3)for the HC

it will take some team to beat us at home... ospreys are not that team

I agree to an extent, Munster when in the mood are unbeatable in Thomond but the fact that they are fairly hot favourites against a talented but flawed team always gets me jittery. If the Ospreys play to their best they can win but I suspect they will have one eye on next weeks return clash and come to Thomond with the hope of a LBP firmly in mind. Of course if they find themselves ahead with 10 to go they will go for it!

Webbs

Ospreys team
15 Barry Davies;
14 Tommy Bowe,
13 Andrew Bishop,
12 James Hook,
11 Richard Fussell;
10 Dan Biggar,
9 Mike Phillips;
1 Paul James,
2 Richard Hibbard,
3 Adam Jones,
4 Ryan Jones,
5 Alun Wyn Jones (capt),
6 Jerry Collins,
7 Marty Holah/Justin Tipuric,
8 Jonathan Thomas

Replacements

16 Mefin Davies
17 Duncan Jones
18 Craig Mitchell
19 Ian Gough
20 Justin Tipuric/Tom Smith*
21 Jamie Nutbrown
22 Sonny Parker
23 Nikki Walker
____________

Cpt_Blackbeard

TOL just strolls into the team ahead of an inform Stringer :mad:. Any chance of an entertaining backs display is gone out the window, same can be said for a solid forwards display as TOL can't organise them either.

At least our defense will be marginally better :rolleyes:

Its a good team despite that though, and we should have a great last 20 when Strings comes on. The one thing that confuses me is Leamy @ 8 and Coughlan @6, will they just line up like that for scrums? Happy that Coughlan is rewarded for his displays this season though.

onlyrocknroll

This must be pretty dispiriting for Peter Stringer.

He plays great rugby all season, better the TOL has for some time, he suits the way Munster are trying to play and the way that the game is progressing, and yet he still gets put on the bench once TOL is back in action!

What more can he possibly do if playing better rugby isn't sufficient?

A terrible decision IMO.

Risteard

Only call that I don't like is TOL ahead of Stringer. Can't understand it at all. If TOL can get a decent enough pass going then fair enough, but Stringer is pretty much the form scrum half in Ireland.

Apart from that though good selection, don't understand Hurley ahead of Ryan on the bench though.

Cpt_Blackbeard

The only thing that TOL has going for him over Stringer is his age, but Williams and Murray are both younger and better than TOL at the basics.

thomond2006

buck65 wrote: »

Welcome to Rugby boards Calvin. You may well be right and you can feel proud of making a prediction that few will make. I reckon Munster are 6/1 to win here but there's always the chance.
Might your gut explain where the Ospreys will get the upper hand or does it verbalise it's hunches?


Team picked
Warwick,Howlett, Earls ,Sammy ,Murphy ,RoG ,O Leary
WDP, Varley, Buckley, DOC, MOD,Coughlan ,Wallace ,Leamy.


Bench - Sherry, Hurley, Hayes, POC, Quinlan, Stringer, Mafi, Hurley

Can't believe the selection at 9. No justice for Stringer. Otherwise fair enough.

Webbs wrote: »

Ospreys team
15 Barry Davies;
14 Tommy Bowe,
13 Andrew Bishop,
12 James Hook,
11 Richard Fussell;
10 Dan Biggar,
9 Mike Phillips;
1 Paul James,
2 Richard Hibbard,
3 Adam Jones,
4 Ryan Jones,
5 Alun Wyn Jones (capt),
6 Jerry Collins,
7 Marty Holah/Justin Tipuric,
8 Jonathan Thomas

Replacements

16 Mefin Davies
17 Duncan Jones
18 Craig Mitchell
19 Ian Gough
20 Justin Tipuric/Tom Smith*
21 Jamie Nutbrown
22 Sonny Parker
23 Nikki Walker

Putting the plodder number eight at lock is a wise move IMO.

Big test for our front row, Adam Jones has been murdering opposition in the scrum all year.

thomond2006

On another note, it looks like Quinny and Ronan have paid for kicking the ball.