How much should people on social welfare etc.. be paid?

caseyann

How much should people be able to live on in Ireland on social welfare and single parents etc...
Do you want rent allowance cut and medical cards cut or cut into their actual money.
Whats the acceptable amount you would imagine a single person should live on?
What should a single mother or father get with kids.

I am really interested to see what people think is the amount of money available to pay people and should live on every week?

Fentdog84

Well firstly it shouldnt be a lifestyle choice for anyone and the only way of stopping that is by cutting it drastically. Everyone is capable of doing something..For people who LOSE their job through no fault of their own and have dependants they should get more, but it needs to be brought down overall in line with other countries. Too many people want something for nothing in this country and they need to get real. But it needs to start at the top!

caseyann

Fentdog84 wrote: »

Well firstly it shouldnt be a lifestyle choice for anyone and the only way of stopping that is by cutting it drastically. Everyone is capable of doing something..For people who LOSE their job through no fault of their own and have dependants they should get more, but it needs to be brought down overall in line with other countries. Too many people want something for nothing in this country and they need to get real. But it needs to start at the top!

Thats not what i asked
For people who are on this now or who find themselves on it what is acceptable amount?
And i doubt majority see it as a life choice on social welfare,as they have no life really to speak of.

Like the tds and the bankers?

Fentdog84

I've spent time on jobseekers until recently and for a single person 196 euro you can survive quite comfortable as long as you dont have any extraordinary outgoings and cheap rent. The only thing is it is easy to get too comfortable and there is no pressure it can be quite hard to get off of it. I think they should do away with the extras(rent allowance etc) and just leave the single payment of 196 euro and over the next few budgets bring it down gradually to around 100 euro for a single person to allow the cost of living to come down as well.

D Boyo

As someone said on the tv tonight we compare to the UK for these payments, anybody know what the rest of Europe average is. As well as that there is free health care in the UK, i think the next budget must look to the wealthy. To answer your question i would say not too much lower than it already is for the moment imo.

_Whimsical_

caseyann wrote: »

How much should people be able to live on in Ireland on social welfare and single parents etc...
Do you want rent allowance cut and medical cards cut or cut into their actual money.
Whats the acceptable amount you would imagine a single person should live on?
What should a single mother or father get with kids.

I am really interested to see what people think is the amount of money available to pay people and should live on every week?

I really think that in Ireland we need to stop using the blanket term "social welfare" and lumping so many sections of society,all with a very diverse range of needs,under such a broad heading.
*
In response to your question i can understand that a single person with no large outlay of money can live comfortably on the dole in a lot of cases. This is by no means true of all JS recipients though.

However living on disability in Ireland if you suffer from a seriously physically limiting condition is considerably more difficult than life for a dole recipient who receives the same payment amount.
*
As it stands in Ireland if you have or develop a seriously limiting disability and disability payment is your only income you will inevitably find yourself on the poverty line. There is a "cost of disability" that is widely ignored in these debates. If you have a seriously physically limiting disability you need to hire someone to help you clean and hoover your house, to cut your grass,to do most every essential menial chore around the house that the able bodied take for granted , eg changing a light bulb. Many people think that the HSE provides home help to everybody requiring it in these circumstances but this not true. On the rare occasions where it is granted the time allocated is woefully inadequate (an hour a week for those who are lucky).

Alot of people can't drive due to their limitations and have to pay for taxis everywhere they go. If you have a mobility problem you can't always shuffle around Lidl or Aldi to find the best deals, you have to chose the supermarket that gives you the best access regardless of prices. That's if you are well enough to shop. I know someone on disability who pays someone to go Dunnes for her for groceries each week. You also have to buy plenty of expensive essential aids that the HSE won't provide you with.

All these expenses come out of a persons weekly disability pension. I really don't think that it's feasible for people in this bracket to live on a further reduced payment than they are getting now and I hope that it won't be cut more.

Euroland

Rent allowance (with some cut)+100 euro per week, no medical cards, no free education. It has to stimulate those on the dole either to find jobs locally or emigrate and find jobs elsewhere.

Euroland

Euroland wrote: »

Rent allowance (with some cut)+100 euro per week, no medical cards, no free education. It has to stimulate those on the dole either to find jobs locally or emigrate and find jobs elsewhere.

No free education = No retraining, so prospects for a job are worse

No Medical card = A) people dying of very easy to cure diseases (influenza anyone?) A massive surge in black market prescription drugs. Not what you want to see on the streets.

I would like to see the dole being half the minimum wage. So at present, €7.65 x 40=306. €306/2=€153

That's for the first 6 months. After the 6 months if you haven't found work, you must do 20 hours a week community service and/or training. If you don't complete your 20 hours, you don't get paid.

I'd also see free travel for those on welfare be introduced across the board, so no-one has an excuse for not turning up for an interview

I'd keep rent allowance and heating allowance and all the other trimmings.

femur61

If and when SW is reduced, bet on it a lot of other prices will follow suit. Look how many places are offering 3 course early birds, which you can get till closing time now; they want people in their establishment. Cheap holidays, sales ect.

Definitely far too generous here, I am first to admit, with my 3 children that children’s allowance is too generous. I have experience with 3 primary schools, two offer book rental schemes. Secondary school books are expensive but we have to remember it is free education.

Has to be in line with rest of Europe we still have welfare tourists.

Euroland

Papa Smut wrote: »

No free education = No retraining, so prospects for a job are worse

There is no point in this free retraining as most of the people who attend it are professional welfare-rs, who continuously receive state benefits for the last 5-30 years and don't plan to go working at all.

I would also limit the dole/retraining to 2 years as so many people continue abusing the system.

Euroland

Papa Smut wrote: »

No Medical card = A) people dying of very easy to cure diseases (influenza anyone?) A massive surge in black market prescription drugs. Not what you want to see on the streets.

So you support that people on the minimum wage would have to pay all their medical expenses (and their family members) by themselves, while professional welfare-rs on the dole would enjoy free medical support, including dental care, for free? And we are now talking about free medical care which would cost to the state around 10-40K each year. Too much i believe, this is why so many professional welfare-rs don't bother to find the jobs, they just enjoy living on the dole, buying cars, traveling abroad 3-5 times a year, much more often than the people who work.

Euroland

Papa Smut wrote: »

I would like to see the dole being half the minimum wage. So at present, €7.65 x 40=306. €306/2=€153

Too generous

s_carnage

Papa Smut wrote: »

No free education = No retraining, so prospects for a job are worse

No Medical card = A) people dying of very easy to cure diseases (influenza anyone?) A massive surge in black market prescription drugs. Not what you want to see on the streets.

I would like to see the dole being half the minimum wage. So at present, €7.65 x 40=306. €306/2=€153

That's for the first 6 months. After the 6 months if you haven't found work, you must do 20 hours a week community service and/or training. If you don't complete your 20 hours, you don't get paid.

I'd also see free travel for those on welfare be introduced across the board, so no-one has an excuse for not turning up for an interview

I'd keep rent allowance and heating allowance and all the other trimmings.

Good idea. There has to be more incentives for people to try to get back to work.

Ms.Odgeynist

Euroland wrote: »

Too generous

Generosity is what keeps this country on an even keel. I mean it's generous to let people spill vitriolic nonsense online, on the airwaves or wherever it might be. But it would be positively dangerous to try and stop them. I know that it must hurt deeply to see some people given 'free money'. Sometimes witnessing 'generosity' can really make your blood boil...? So if you're one of those people who finds 'generosity' hard to witness, then look away. Try to ignore it! Because if we simply stop the 'generosity', we will pay plenty more cleaning up the mess.

Cookie_Monster

Base them on EU average rates.

cavedave

I managed to get three people in 60 pages of thread to put down a figure with some sort of backing for dole for a single person here

CCCP 1064 per month based on eapn figures
cavedave 686 a month based on DIT figures
wolfpawnat with 600-700 per month based on her experience

lasnoufle

Well my own expenses at the moment (I'm working) for one month

350 rent (double room in shared flat in D1)
50 bills (broadband + ESB)
about 180 food (always eat at home and prepare food for work, and I eat quite a lot)
20 transport (one bus card from time to time)
13 gym

So a bit less than 620 including rent. Not counting holidays as it's a luxury. Let's top it to 700 for clothing & a few pints.

So that would be my answer - 700 euros, with medical card but no more rent allowance, for a single person. Or, keep rent allowance (bad idea in my opinion) and make it 350 a month.

common sense brigade

I would think the Dole should be 100% for first 12 months based on stamps. Remember there are alot of genuine jobseekers out there that have paid their tax for years and need help. Then gradually phase the dole payments down so that it gets cut by 20% in second year and so on and so forth each subsequent year. Hopefully combating long term unemployment. I would not agree with ever removing the medical card from people on social welfare. the thought of children or elderly suffering with sickness would be awful. I am happy to pay my tax that contributes to the welfare state. Remember its not the dole payments and medical cards that have us in this mess. Its greed and banks and Nama. I think perhaps childrens allowance for working mothers should be replaced with State creches where we pay a nominal fee for childcare. and childrens allowance payment should be only given to unemployed mothers.Just my thoughts dont want to offend anyone! working mother of 1! also more social houses and less rent allowance given out. The state should own the property developers ghost estates and use them for social housing.

the groutch

it needs to be brought to a point where people arent effectively getting paid to stay at home and have lots of kids, of course with the reduction of minumum wage that's going to be even harder.
I like the food stamp idea, stop people on the dole wasting their money on booze/smokes

common sense brigade

I dont like the Food stamp idea because if a genuine jobseeker that has paid their taxes wants to buy cigarettes or a pint that is entirely up to him or her. We the taxpayer have no right to become dictators to the people who are already going out of their minds trying to find work. Look i know their are scroungers , there always will be , but there has to be better ways to route out the scroungers, without having genuine jobseekers suffer further indignities as telling them how to spend their money. and it is their money. I pay tax and am happy to help any genuine jobseeker as they too paid their tax and may one day help me. May I also add its not the welfare State that got us into this mess. It is the Banks and government or lack of that did.

ntlbell

common sense brigade wrote: »

I dont like the Food stamp idea because if a genuine jobseeker that has paid their taxes wants to buy cigarettes or a pint that is entirely up to him or her. We the taxpayer have no right to become dictators

Grand, but you agree if they're spending their SW on non essentials like cigs and pints they have no right to complain about the levels of payment?

common sense brigade

ntlbell. Assuming ur employed . If you were suddenly made unemployed tomorrow and had paid your stamps for years. You would recieve you Jobseekers allowance right? And rightly so ? Do I have the right as a taxpayer to tell you how to spend your money? The money you are owed as you paid tax for years. Would you be ok with being told here is your money but you cannot buy drink or cigarettes should you wish too.
I do agree in cutting the dole marginally and I think the 8 Euro cut yesterday was a reasnoble cut. My previous post states I think the Dole should be cut for every year you are on it. 100% for 12 moths then phased down each year. And yes I do think people have the right to complain about levels of payment. Thats why we live in a free thinking democratic society. Your opinion is no less than mine. The tax payers opinion is no more than that of the unemployed person.

ntlbell

common sense brigade wrote: »

ntlbell. Assuming ur employed . If you were suddenly made unemployed tomorrow and had paid your stamps for years. You would recieve you Jobseekers allowance right? And rightly so ? Do I have the right as a taxpayer to tell you how to spend your money? The money you are owed as you paid tax for years. Would you be ok with being told here is your money but you cannot buy drink or cigarettes should you wish too.

There's the difference I don't see it as money "owed" I don't pay taxes etc so I can claim it back at a later stage, I pay it so it can be given to people who need it now and would hope if I should need it I would get the same. You don't have the right to tell me how to spend the money I work to earn. but if I was let go tomorrow and started spending my dole money in the pub I don't have the right to come on here and whine about how much poverty I'm in and how low the payments.

WHU wrote: »

I do agree in cutting the dole marginally and I think the 8 Euro cut yesterday was a reasnoble cut. My previous post states I think the Dole should be cut for every year you are on it. 100% for 12 moths then phased down each year. And yes I do think people have the right to complain about levels of payment. Thats why we live in a free thinking democratic society. Your opinion is no less than mine. The tax payers opinion is no more than that of the unemployed person.

people don't have the right to complain about the levels of payment when the payment is designed for a basic standard of living when the payment will give you that if you don't spend the money on nonsense.

common sense brigade

i dont pay tax so I can claim it back later either. Thats not what I meant. I have never claimed any form of welfare and always have been lucky enough to have a job. But if i lost my job tomor i am entitled to the dole. I disagree with you sorry . People do have the right to complain. We all have the right to complain. Also i havent seen a single person on this thread moaning about poverty or saying they are going to spend their dole in the pub. Where are these people you speak of?

whine about how much poverty I'm in and how low the payments.

ntlbell

common sense brigade wrote: »

i dont pay tax so I can claim it back later either. Thats not what I meant. I have never claimed any form of welfare and always have been lucky enough to have a job. But if i lost my job tomor i am entitled to the dole. I disagree with you sorry . People do have the right to complain. We all have the right to complain. Also i havent seen a single person on this thread moaning about poverty or saying they are going to spend their dole in the pub. Where are these people you speak of?

You said in your post they can buy cigs/pints etc if they want to.

I'm saying they can, but then claiming the SW isn't enough to give a basic standard of living when one is spending their money on pints is nonsensical.

We're not going anywhere fast with this disucssion.

sandmanporto

Fentdog84 wrote: »

I've spent time on jobseekers until recently and for a single person 196 euro you can survive quite comfortable as long as you dont have any extraordinary outgoings and cheap rent. The only thing is it is easy to get too comfortable and there is no pressure it can be quite hard to get off of it. I think they should do away with the extras(rent allowance etc) and just leave the single payment of 196 euro and over the next few budgets bring it down gradually to around 100 euro for a single person to allow the cost of living to come down as.

well ireland is a joke of a country for the price of anything. Why not cut it to €80 while you're at it! I mean, at that rate they couldnt afford to even get north to shop. We all know how ridiculous grocerie prices are here as well as tobacco tax. People have to have some degree of comfort. I get the impression that a lot of people would prefer to see a person on jobseekers on live on the street rather than get benefits! There's so much begrudgery in ireland. Some people CANT get a job!

Mr Tim Buktoo

I started a ce scheme job there recently. couldnt believe that there are guys on it getting two payments. disability and the one for the job itself. surely if you have a disability it means that you cant work.
so they are coming out with about 400 a week from what i could gather and thats for 20hrs work.
we had a union guy in the other day trying to get us to sign up. there was talk of them doing away with the double payment in the budget.
anyone know if they did? unlikely i spose.

common sense brigade

Grand, but you agree if they're spending their SW on non essentials like cigs and pints they have no right to complain about the levels of payment?

You initiated the converstaion about cigarettes. Im just wondering where you saw or heard people moaning about this? Do you have a link to a thread where unemployed people are moaning about benefits?

Mr Tim Buktoo

Mr Tim Buktoo wrote: »

I started a ce scheme job there recently. couldnt believe that there are guys on it getting two payments. disability and the one for the job itself. surely if you have a disability it means that you cant work.
so they are coming out with about 400 a week from what i could gather and thats for 20hrs work.
we had a union guy in the other day trying to get us to sign up. there was talk of them doing away with the double payment in the budget.
anyone know if they did? unlikely i spose.

Hmmm... I have also done CE schemes, been on FAS and at a horrible time of my life, been on disability as well. However, I have never heard of a "double payment" and unless you can provide a link, I call shennanigans.

ntlbell

common sense brigade wrote: »

You initiated the converstaion about cigarettes. Im just wondering where you saw or heard people moaning about this? Do you have a link to a thread where unemployed people are moaning about benefits?

i never mentioned cigs till your brought them up.

If you look back over the last few pages of the IE there's enough threads with people complainin about SW levels to keep you reading untill the next budget.

Euroland

Euroland wrote: »

There is no point in this free retraining as most of the people who attend it are professional welfare-rs, who continuously receive state benefits for the last 5-30 years and don't plan to go working at all.

I would also limit the dole/retraining to 2 years as so many people continue abusing the system.

I like your term "most", so by saying "most" that would lend itself to the fact that "some" people are not "professional welfare-rs (a despicable term may I add) and actually get retrained and therefore get jobs.
So after 2 years, we'll see crime rocket as people have no money? That's a well thought out plan you have there.

Euroland wrote: »

So you support that people on the minimum wage would have to pay all their medical expenses (and their family members) by themselves, while professional welfare-rs on the dole would enjoy free medical support, including dental care, for free? And we are now talking about free medical care which would cost to the state around 10-40K each year. Too much i believe, this is why so many professional welfare-rs don't bother to find the jobs, they just enjoy living on the dole, buying cars, traveling abroad 3-5 times a year, much more often than the people who work.

Again with the professional welfare-rs, but however. If the dole was only €153, I doubt many would see it as a "profession", but more of a helping hand. Also, where are you getting the figure of 10-40K from? And you are hilarious trying to say people on the dole are buying cars, travelling abroad 3-5 times a year. With what money? The massive €196 a week? Really???

Or maybe it's a question of better money management. Maybe those on the dole can stretch their €196 a week into three to five holidays an a car every year, while those on min wage, (€346) just go crazy with all that loot!

Euroland wrote: »

Too generous

Too generous if we want to keep this country civilised in any way.