The welfare cuts were very fair

Kunle

I think the welfare cuts were very fair, remember people here were saying that the dole would be cut 50 percent once the imf came. Welfare is now back to 2005/06 levels these were not bad years.

caseyann

I thought this thread would be a hit with alot of bravos and should have been cut more.:p

I dont think it was rotten hit but i do think the cuts do nothing and nothing has been done for the country just the banks and the Tds and the fat mafia again.

Eve222

Kunle wrote: »

I think the welfare cuts were very fair, remember people here were saying that the dole would be cut 50 percent once the imf came. Welfare is now back to 2005/06 levels these were not bad years.

I don't know how you can think that, a bag of coal and a bottle of gas then was half the price it is now. Every penny counts people on job seekers through no fault of their own have to chose between paying bills that are rising all the time and putting food on the table.

Eve222

caseyann wrote: »

I thought this thread would be a hit with alot of bravos and should have been cut more.:p

I dont think it was rotten hit but i do think the cuts do nothing and nothing has been done for the country just the banks and the Tds and the fat mafia again.

Hear Hear!

nesf

Not fair but unfortunately necessary. Could have been a lot worse but personally I'd have preferred to see more of a focus on cutting the dole and less cut from Disability etc. Though to do so would invite a lot of fraud so I can see why they cut both rates by the same amount.

murphaph

FF happy to cut disability because they are a minority. FF happy to leave the pension fully intact after 3 "crisis" budgets tells me all I need to know: Budget purely designed to give FF a fighting chance of survivial, and to hell with what the country actually needs. The contempt with which I hold these people in knows no bounds.

macannrb

murphaph wrote: »

FF happy to cut disability because they are a minority. FF happy to leave the pension fully intact after 3 "crisis" budgets tells me all I need to know: Budget purely designed to give FF a fighting chance of survivial, and to hell with what the country actually needs. The contempt with which I hold these people in knows no bounds.

it seems like they are kicking the can down the road, and their main aim is to let the next government be remembered for making the real cuts which they don't want to make.

I don't think they took enough from all sectors. a 4% here and an 4% there is really not enough. Especially when the country a few days ago announced that the loss the government is making this year is 22bn, not 18bn as previously thought. My wages should have been cut by more, and so should have everyone elses. Including that of Padraig MacManus(ESB chief), who earns 33k a month after tax. He will be worse off by 300 quid a month. I really dont think that enough. but everyone needs to be hit harder, starting at the top

ucd.1985

Shoud have been cut by more.

You cant encourage people back to work by reducing the minimum wage by 12% and only reducing social welfare by 4%.

The gap between working and staying on welfare needed to be widened not narrowed.

You should never ever be better off staying on welfare than working and unforunately this can be the case at the moment.

Kev_ps3

ucd.1985 wrote: »

Shoud have been cut by more.

You cant encourage people back to work by reducing the minimum wage by 12% and only reducing social welfare by 4%.

The gap between working and staying on welfare needed to be widened not narrowed.

You should never ever be better off staying on welfare than working and unforunately this can be the case at the moment.

What work??

WHU

Kev_ps3 wrote: »

What work??

Well said Kev, people are too quick to judge here, there is no work, people can't help being on the dole, granted there are those who never/never want to work but not all of them. I know familes that are struggleing on the social and with the cuts 4% and the cut to child benefit are now in a desperste place.

WHU

Edit: double post.

bmarley

I think the cuts were necessary, people in this country are well paid for doing nothing. I work part-time 20 hr week and earn 282 euro per week. Petrol to work costs me 20 euro per week. Until this budget, I have not been taxed but will now be taxed up to 30 euro per week. I understand now what it means that it is not worth while going to work, I would be as well off on the dole. I have also calculated that I would be better off were I to change to job share for a couple of days/per week and sign on for couple of days. Husband is on B.T.E.A. only and travel to/from college costs 80 euro per week. He does not get a grant. Even during the years of boom, there were so many people claiming social welfare who did not want the jobs that people from other countries were happy to take. People on welfare should be required to earn it, it is only then that they would appreciate the value of it. This government has been so kind to peoples that we have seen a mass uproot of people from our neighbouring countries who come here to take advantage of our generous child benefits (particularly if you have 3 or more children), generous social welfare benefits, generous rent allowances (you choose your house and we'll pay your rent, if you don't want a house in a council estate, that's fine - we'll pay).
The only cuts in social welfare I consider to be unfair is the cut in those people on community employment schemes. Many of these people are getting
only the equivalent of social welfare and this does not take into account travel expenses to work/training.

ednwireland

thought enda made a good point ( for once ) that before the budget brian cowen was on 13 times the min wage, after the budget hes on 14 times. to me that show exactley where FF's priorities lie. they have no interest whatsoever in a fairer society

Kunle

There was one unfair thing and that was that the oap got no cut, oaps get free esb units, free phoneline, free travel and free tv licence so they should have got a 4 percent cut like everybody else, maybe not now during this bad weather but from march onwards.

snubbleste

Pension was'nt touched at all.
Very disappointed.

WHU

Kunle wrote: »

There was one unfair thing and that was that the oap got no cut, oaps get free esb units, free phoneline, free travel and free tv licence so they should have got a 4 percent cut like everybody else, maybe not now during this bad weather but from march onwards.

Somebody said somewhere since yesterdays budget, but I can't recall who or where I read it. "Older people vote, most young don't" or something very similar.

c montgomery

Kev_ps3 wrote: »

What work??

Its more like what profession than what work.

There are some jobs out there but not in construction. I am being made redundant in march and while i have not been able to line anything up for after march yet, there are a few opportunities for me out there. I will have to take a huge reduction in pay however.

My local shop and pub have a sign up for staff at the moment.

wmpdd3

I'm not an expert on social welfare, but one point has just proved what I thought about FF. They social welfare pays for 15 % of the rental market through rent allowance.

Instead of driving down rents in that sector, they will now charge those in receipt of rent relief 2euro per week. Take from the social welfare person but save the landlord...nice.

Also they need to do something for people on 20 hrs per week but working more than 3 days. In 2 years those jobs are the only type been offered by my company. This means its only people that were never entitled to social welfare that have take these jobs. In the end they may lead to a 30 or 35 hr job but you have to stick at them.

Eve222

Kunle wrote: »

There was one unfair thing and that was that the oap got no cut, oaps get free esb units, free phoneline, free travel and free tv licence so they should have got a 4 percent cut like everybody else, maybe not now during this bad weather but from march onwards.

You clearly don't know any oaps, do you know how many of them die in severe cold weather. They still have bills to pay, and food to buy, they live on a little more than 200 euro a week. Most dont have central heating, a bag of coal cost almost 20 euro which will last only two days when you need heating around the clock. Most can only heat one room. If you listened to Joe Duffy lately you would have heard about a lady who had to stay in bed to keep warm. As for free travel, that is fine in cities, in the country areas there are no buses or trains. You also forget these people worked all their lives and paid their taxes and paid for their pensions.

murphaph

Eve222 wrote: »

You clearly don't know any oaps, do you know how many of them die in severe cold weather.

Do you? Give us some stats please.

Eve222 wrote: »

They still have bills to pay

Subsidised bills. They get a fuel allowance for their gas bill, and electricity allowance for their ESB bill and a telephone allowance for the telephone bill. They also have free transport and a free TV licence and absolutely no medical costs once they hit 70. Bills my arse!

Eve222 wrote: »

and food to buy

Just as a blind person, or someone on the dole.

Eve222 wrote: »

they live on a little more than 200 euro a week

Actually it's €230.30. So a couple, likely living in a house they own outright, have to get by on a meagre €460.60 a WEEK! My heart bleeds!

Eve222 wrote: »

Most dont have central heating

Are you just making stuff up? How on earth do you know this? I would actually put it to you that most probably DO have central heating.

Eve222 wrote: »

a bag of coal cost almost 20 euro which will last only two days when you need heating around the clock.

I grew up in a house with solid fuel heating. My father taught me how to make a fire with sticks, logs, coal and most importantly-slack. The slack makes the fire burn much longer. We would certainly have gotten more than 2 days out of a bag of coal in our house.

Eve222 wrote: »

Most can only heat one room.

Again, stats? I don't believe this to be true going by the OAPs I know and even if it is true, so what? We turn the heat right down in rooms we're not using to save energy. We keep the heat on in our living room and bathroom and only turn the heat on in the bedroom before we're going to bed.

Eve222 wrote: »

If you listened to Joe Duffy lately you would have heard about a lady who had to stay in bed to keep warm. As for free travel, that is fine in cities, in the country areas there are no buses or trains. You also forget these people worked all their lives and paid their taxes and paid for their pensions.

The likes of my mother could and would have never expected such a generous state pension. It is faaar more generous than our European neighbours. In Germany (and pretty much everywhere) there is no notion of a standard rate of state pension...you get out proportionally to what you put in. You believe ALL pensioners have worked? I can tell you as fact that there are people in receipt of a full non-contributory pension who have never worked a day in their lives!

Euroland

Too little, they should cut down to 100 Euro per week and limit the dole only to 2-3 years.

Carolyyn

Eve222 wrote: »

You clearly don't know any oaps, do you know how many of them die in severe cold weather. They still have bills to pay, and food to buy, they live on a little more than 200 euro a week. Most dont have central heating, a bag of coal cost almost 20 euro which will last only two days when you need heating around the clock. Most can only heat one room. If you listened to Joe Duffy lately you would have heard about a lady who had to stay in bed to keep warm. As for free travel, that is fine in cities, in the country areas there are no buses or trains. You also forget these people worked all their lives and paid their taxes and paid for their pensions.

I don’t think anyone is saying that old people don’t deserve to be looked after, but I certainly don’t buy the notion that they are all vulnerable. Of course they worked hard and didn’t cause the current economics difficulties in the country.
But neither did the carers, the person on the blind pension, the young couple struggling at risk of poverty struggling to pay a huge mortgage, childcare and increasing utility and petrol costs. Older people do not have to fork out for a lot of these expenses. Anyone with compassion would also consider these groups of people as vulnerable, but the difference is that they don’t have a powerful lobby group like Older and Bolder and Age Action Ireland advocating on their behalf.
On a side note I did some voluntary work with Age Action recently on my day off and found it very unrewarding because the people to whom I provided free training were very well to do and could easily have paid for the service. I did not meet one person whom I would consider vulnerable during my time there, the vast majority using the services were retired on generous pensions. But they are an articulate group and well organised and have the time and resources to lobby the government. The indirect effect is that other groups are targeted for cut instead.

Nozebleed

Kunle wrote: »

I think the welfare cuts were very fair, remember people here were saying that the dole would be cut 50 percent once the imf came. Welfare is now back to 2005/06 levels these were not bad years.

are you on welfare?

Judgement Day

ucd.1985 wrote: »

Shoud have been cut by more.

You cant encourage people back to work by reducing the minimum wage by 12% and only reducing social welfare by 4%.

The gap between working and staying on welfare needed to be widened not narrowed.

You should never ever be better off staying on welfare than working and unforunately this can be the case at the moment.

You can't encourage people back to work if there are NO jobs!!!! If the dole is cut further people cut their spending further which in turn leads to more retailers etc failing. Anybody who thinks that people prefer to live on €198 per week than have a job has their head up their.....

If TDs had their wages cut to €500 per week I think people would be happy to accept cuts in their own dole/allowances/pensions etc.

Padkir

Judgement Day wrote: »

You can't encourage people back to work if there are NO jobs!!!! If the dole is cut further people cut their spending further which in turn leads to more retailers etc failing. Anybody who thinks that people prefer to live on €198 per week than have a job has their head up their.....

If TDs had their wages cut to €500 per week I think people would be happy to accept cuts in their own dole/allowances/pensions etc.

I seriously doubt they'd be "happy" to take the cuts. A young couple who are about to lose their home because they can't afford to pay their mortgage aren't going to think, Oh it's ok because Brian Cowen took a big wage cut too.

Any cuts to td's or ministers salaries would be all for show and wouldn't really contribute anything meaningful. In saying that I think they should be cut, but don't kid yourself into thinking it will mean welfare won't have to be cut, because its only a drop in the ocean.

Lukes_Mama

Euroland wrote: »

Too little, they should cut down to 100 Euro per week and limit the dole only to 2-3 years.

Seriously? How do you think that would work, all you'd so is make people homeless causing more loss of money! €100 to pay rent (average here €150pw) ESB, fuel to keep my house warm and my baby healthy, food etc
Some of us are the ones who were with companies for years before being let go due to lack of work. Yes I agree the 6% that were on the dole before should be hit harder than the 4% cut, but be realistic here!
Hope you never loose your job and realise how hard it is to live on SW!

JamesBond2010

Kunle wrote: »

There was one unfair thing and that was that the oap got no cut, oaps get free esb units, free phoneline, free travel and free tv licence so they should have got a 4 percent cut like everybody else, maybe not now during this bad weather but from march onwards.

some of them are entitled to it they have worked hard all their lives. other have no family so who else is going to look after if they get sick or injured.they would not be able to afford it anyway with some of the way companies extort or con money out of them

Demonique

Eve222 wrote: »

You also forget these people worked all their lives and paid their taxes and paid for their pensions.

What about those who have never worked because they are severaly disabled? Why should they suffer and the OAPs yet again get away scot free? Disabled people are more vulnerable than OAPs, many OAPs own their own houses, disabled people will never have that opportunity

wyndhurst

Eve222 wrote: »

You clearly don't know any oaps, do you know how many of them die in severe cold weather. They still have bills to pay, and food to buy, they live on a little more than 200 euro a week. Most dont have central heating, a bag of coal cost almost 20 euro which will last only two days when you need heating around the clock. Most can only heat one room. If you listened to Joe Duffy lately you would have heard about a lady who had to stay in bed to keep warm. As for free travel, that is fine in cities, in the country areas there are no buses or trains. You also forget these people worked all their lives and paid their taxes and paid for their pensions.

Eve222 - what a complete and utter load of shi.. you are spouting.
The OAP's are the new rich in Ireland.
Most that are strugggling are probably subbing their kids (being ripped off by their kids) or buying one too many lotto tickets.

Judgement Day

wyndhurst wrote: »

Eve222 - what a complete and utter load of shi.. you are spouting.
The OAP's are the new rich in Ireland.
Most that are strugggling are probably subbing their kids (being ripped off by their kids) or buying one too many lotto tickets.

Where do you come by this great insight into the financial status of OAPs in Ireland? :rolleyes:

Superwhy

Kunle wrote: »

I think the welfare cuts were very fair, remember people here were saying that the dole would be cut 50 percent once the imf came. Welfare is now back to 2005/06 levels these were not bad years.

That is such crap. I'm a student and single mother so my money has been cut by over €4500 a year while the Ministers wages were cut by €10000. That's not even remotely fair. €4500 is a more than a quarter of what I get a year, I'm sure €10000 is not even close to that for them.

I worked and paid taxes before going back to college and I intend on working afterwards but there are those who don't have the opportunity of working, like the people who are full time carer's - who save a load of money for the government in doing this - and people with disabilities and I think its the governments responsibility to provide for them.

The cuts to the social welfare are an insult to them and are embarrassing to us as a country, in my opinion, that we don't take care of our least fortunate.

irishh_bob

Eve222 wrote: »

You clearly don't know any oaps, do you know how many of them die in severe cold weather. They still have bills to pay, and food to buy, they live on a little more than 200 euro a week. Most dont have central heating, a bag of coal cost almost 20 euro which will last only two days when you need heating around the clock. Most can only heat one room. If you listened to Joe Duffy lately you would have heard about a lady who had to stay in bed to keep warm. As for free travel, that is fine in cities, in the country areas there are no buses or trains. You also forget these people worked all their lives and paid their taxes and paid for their pensions.

always amuses me the mythology that is built up around pensioners

any pensioner that is cold is not so because of an inability to finance the cost of heating thier home , the only real cost pensioners have is food and perhaps some petrol for the car for the short distances they drive , ive said it on other threads , the pension is so generous in this country that most pensioners should be well able to save 100 euro per week

irishh_bob

Demonique wrote: »

What about those who have never worked because they are severaly disabled? Why should they suffer and the OAPs yet again get away scot free? Disabled people are more vulnerable than OAPs, many OAPs own their own houses, disabled people will never have that opportunity

politics combined with good old fashioned mushy headed irish sentimentality

thier are hundreds of thousands of pensioners , they are a powerfull organised voting block and one of the most loyal ( if not most loyal ) of all FF voters , the blind and disabled are numbered in the few thousand at most combined , no TD ever lost his or her seat with the blind vote

as for irish idiocy , most people have bought into the notion that pensioners are inherently weak , poor and vulnerable , two years ago when the goverment proposed to means test the medical card , the country ( not just pensioners ) went into a frenzy, the result was that a retired person in ireland can earn up to 699 euro per week of a pension and still visit the doctor for free , a retired couple can earn up to 1398 of a pension between them and still get thier pills for free , untill people stop subscribing to the message that all pensioners are living in one bedroom thatched cottages with nothing but a hot water bottle to keep them warm , politicans will continue to indugle this sacred cow and will have absolute cover politically to spoil them at the expense of minoritys like the blind and the disabled

irishh_bob

Judgement Day wrote: »

Where do you come by this great insight into the financial status of OAPs in Ireland? :rolleyes:

basic math i imagine

Judgement Day

irishh_bob wrote: »

always amuses me the mythology that is built up around pensioners

any pensioner that is cold is not so because of an inability to finance the cost of heating thier home , the only real cost pensioners have is food and perhaps some petrol for the car for the short distances they drive , ive said it on other threads , the pension is so generous in this country that most pensioners should be well able to save 100 euro per week

It always depresses me the way some posters love making broad, meaningless statements about other peoples finances. So pensioners are uniformly well off and in a standard financial position are they? They all drive cars - petrol fuelled too - and they only drive short distances. A regular little CSO aren't you - where do you get all your information? Anyway don't worry the government have reduced all sorts of other payments to carers, blind people etc, etc and I'm sure that some of them are pensioners so that should make you happy.

kangaroo

irishh_bob wrote: »

politics combined with good old fashioned mushy headed irish sentimentality

thier are hundreds of thousands of pensioners , they are a powerfull organised voting block and one of the most loyal ( if not most loyal ) of all FF voters , the blind and disabled are numbered in the few thousand at most combined , no TD ever lost his or her seat with the blind vote

as for irish idiocy , most people have bought into the notion that pensioners are inherently weak , poor and vulnerable , two years ago when the goverment proposed to means test the medical card , the country ( not just pensioners ) went into a frenzy, the result was that a retired person in ireland can earn up to 699 euro per week of a pension and still visit the doctor for free , a retired couple can earn up to 1398 of a pension between them and still get thier pills for free , untill people stop subscribing to the message that all pensioners are living in one bedroom thatched cottages with nothing but a hot water bottle to keep them warm , politicans will continue to indugle this sacred cow and will have absolute cover politically to spoil them at the expense of minoritys like the blind and the disabled

Here's somebody who has bought into the myth about pensioners:
http://www.irishexaminer.com/opinion/letters/harass-the-politicians-not-the-pensioners-138979.html

It would be good if there were a few replies.
If people want children and other non-pensioners to be supported, it's not a very efficient way to do it to give money to older people with the hope they will pass it on as this letter writer appears to argue.

kangaroo

One thing I have picked up in various places is that people aren't aware that disability payments for example as well as other welfare payments were all cut in the December 2009 budget.

I wonder will it change attitudes now that there is a trend not to cut the OAP but to cut everything else. And if that continues (i.e. the OAP is not cut), to make the E2.8bn in welfare cuts, everyone else (or most of them) are going to take big cuts in the next few years.

caseyann

Not enough cut off from the social welfare,none cut off the Older generation.But the tds sitting on their whopping payments not to mention their expenses paid.
Who decided the TDS should get that a high a pay?
Leave the older generation alone.
We dont need anymore people worse off than they already are.

Sleepy

Since when is agism fair?

The public pension is a form of welfare. It was not touched whilst the unemployed, carers and disabled all took cuts bringing them further below the level of support provided to the over 65's.

johnnyskeleton

WHU wrote: »

Well said Kev, people are too quick to judge here, there is no work, people can't help being on the dole, granted there are those who never/never want to work but not all of them. I know familes that are struggleing on the social and with the cuts 4% and the cut to child benefit are now in a desperste place.

The problem too is that people have this idea that "work" means going into a local business, asking them for a job and then clocking in 9-5. The idea of setting up their own business seems to be beyond a lot of people. The former self employed e.g. construction subcontractors will often find different things to do because they have to i.e. they get no dole. But people who work seem to be unwilling or unable to set up on their own. It's like a form of indoctrination.

There is a scheme whereby people on the dole can set up a business, but as pointed out in another thread, this is only available to the long term unemployed i.e. you have to have been unemployed for a year before you get it, and after a few years you are cut off again from social welfare.

The dole further discourages people declaring earnings from odd jobs. But when these odd jobs become effectively steady work, we have a clear problem.

I'm not saying that people should go out and set up big exporting companies. But they might, for example, set up a company that makes sandwiches and delivers them to export businessess in an out of town location at a good price. Or they might try their hand at an internet business or the like.

Finally, as regards new companies to provide paye work for people (because I accept that not everyone can be self employed), our costs have to come down before we can attract such companies. Dell leaving is a big warning sign to the country - we are asking for too much money to do basic jobs. It's all very well talking about how unfair it is to cut the minimum wage and the dole etc, the poorest taking the most pain etc, but the reality is that not everyone in Ireland can do "smart economy" work and in order to get jobs we need to get jobs for those who are currently unemployed - many of whom are from manufacturing or construction backgrounds. In order to get them back to work, we need to encourage jobs that they can do.

MagicSean

Kev_ps3 wrote: »

What work??

http://jobsearch.monster.ie/Browse.aspx

http://www.publicjobs.ie/publicjobs/en/star/search.do

http://www.jobs.ie/

There's a few for you.

Tipp Man

The problem with the disability payment is that half the bloody country is claiming it - instead of the dole - as you get it regardless of your spouses income

It is the Irish people who are depriving the genuine disabled their right to proper welfare - by screwing the system they are actually screwing the people who do need it. Case in point is my neighbour who is claiming disability for the past 4 years - yet she manages to go for a 3 mile walk every day, without fail - works part time at a local catering company - and does childminding from home - all cash in hand. Amazingly enough she was able to go to the USA for a 3 week holiday this summer

Abuse is endemic in the welfare system, so the blame lies firmly with 2 things - the government for not eliminating the abuse and the Irish people who abuse the system

MagicSean

Tipp Man wrote: »

The problem with the disability payment is that half the bloody country is claiming it - instead of the dole - as you get it regardless of your spouses income

It is the Irish people who are depriving the genuine disabled their right to proper welfare - by screwing the system they are actually screwing the people who do need it. Case in point is my neighbour who is claiming disability for the past 4 years - yet she manages to go for a 3 mile walk every day, without fail - works part time at a local catering company - and does childminding from home - all cash in hand. Amazingly enough she was able to go to the USA for a 3 week holiday this summer

Abuse is endemic in the welfare system, so the blame lies firmly with 2 things - the government for not eliminating the abuse and the Irish people who abuse the system

Did you report her to social welfare and report her doctor to the IMC?

Tipp Man

k_mac wrote: »

Did you report her to social welfare and report her doctor to the IMC?

Her yes - doctor no

Nothing done

caseyann

Tipp Man wrote: »

The problem with the disability payment is that half the bloody country is claiming it - instead of the dole - as you get it regardless of your spouses income

It is the Irish people who are depriving the genuine disabled their right to proper welfare - by screwing the system they are actually screwing the people who do need it. Case in point is my neighbour who is claiming disability for the past 4 years - yet she manages to go for a 3 mile walk every day, without fail - works part time at a local catering company - and does childminding from home - all cash in hand. Amazingly enough she was able to go to the USA for a 3 week holiday this summer

Abuse is endemic in the welfare system, so the blame lies firmly with 2 things - the government for not eliminating the abuse and the Irish people who abuse the system

I would like to see the statistics for half the country claiming that? Link please

kangaroo

Tipp Man wrote: »

The problem with the disability payment is that half the bloody country is claiming it - instead of the dole - as you get it regardless of your spouses income

There are two types of disability payment, one if one has stamps (illness benefit/invalidity pension) and one if one doesn't have stamps (disability allowance). The latter one is means-tested on one's spouses income. So some people with disabilities/disabling illnesses get nothing.

caseyann

Sleepy wrote: »

Since when is agism fair?

The public pension is a form of welfare. It was not touched whilst the unemployed, carers and disabled all took cuts bringing them further below the level of support provided to the over 65's.

THOSE moaning about the pensioners need a reality check. These are the people who are above working age and who wouldn’t be able to get even a part-time job if they wanted to or were able, so have no option to supplement their pensions, whereas the rest of us below 70 do have that option.


Those pensioners who were ‘untouched’, as some are claiming, are using their pensions to help keep their own children and grandchildren solvent.

They are discreetly paying some bills that would push their children to breaking point, they bring grandchildren shopping and buy the new clothes or games the parents can’t afford. They buy school books and help pay for the after-school activities their grandchildren enjoy. They buy the tickets for school raffles and sports events.





It is a nonsense for people to delude themselves that pensioners have been ‘let off ’. The only group of people who were let off in this Budget were the political class.

So if people aim their anger at the right target, they might actually get somewhere. But leave the pensioners alone. For the record, I’m in my 30s.

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/letters/point-your-anger-in-the-right-direction-2455941.html
Couldnt have said it better.

kangaroo

caseyann wrote: »

THOSE moaning about the pensioners need a reality check. These are the people who are above working age and who wouldn’t be able to get even a part-time job if they wanted to or were able, so have no option to supplement their pensions, whereas the rest of us below 70 do have that option.

I think it's the author who needs the reality check.

Some people passed the pension age can do some work (my father does, for example).

And who says everyone under the pension age can work e.g. some carers and people with disabilities.

Tipp Man

caseyann wrote: »

I would like to see the statistics for half the country claiming that? Link please

This link provides an insight into just how much abuse of the disabled benifits is going on - a little excerpt from it shows the scale of the problem. Note that of those tested only 10% were actually ELIGIBLE

So like i said it is Irish people robbing fellow Irish disabled people, coupled with a pharcical system. Its a disgrace

I certainly don't want to see anybody with a ligitimate disability being a victim, quite the opposite they really need the governments help and support

I am fundamentally opposed to somebody with a back twinge or sore leg getting it -its robbery

Note the amount of people getting it - over 100,000 people. Can anybody tell me in all honesty that we have 100,000 disbled people in this country???


http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2009/0518/1224246811387.html

"As part of a pilot programme by the department in 2003, a total of 1,532 claimants for disability payment on grounds of lower back pain were called for a medical examination before specially-trained doctors.
Following an independent medical assessment, some 900 claimants were found not to be eligible for the benefit. A further 197 claimants called before the medical assessors never turned up.
Follow-up projects in Dublin, Cork and Galway, which centred on a further 2,775 claimants for disability benefit on the basis of lower back pain, produced similar results in that about 10 per cent were found to be eligible"

Tipp Man

kangaroo wrote: »

There are two types of disability payment, one if one has stamps (illness benefit/invalidity pension) and one if one doesn't have stamps (disability allowance). The latter one is means-tested on one's spouses income. So some people with disabilities/disabling illnesses get nothing.

Doesn't that just highlight the problem - people who actually should be getting it can't/aren't eligible

kangaroo

Tipp Man wrote: »

Note the amount of people getting it - over 100,000 people. Can anybody tell me in all honesty that we have 100,000 disbled people in this country???

I don't know what the right number would be. But people with intellectual disabilities can get it as well as people with mental health problems. Also chronic illnesses which may not always be visible.