Irish schools are in the top 25 in the world....happy news, just for a change

baltimore sun

According to the latest Pisa study, it says that Ireland's schools are in the top 25 in the world.

Can't link to site, as it seems to be down...a la wikileaks
but here's the link to the article
http://howd.ie/03Afa17

I hadn't expected it but it's nice to know that teachers are doing their jobs well and that we have some bright kids coming though in the coming years...so long as they don't flood out of the country in another braindrain like in the 80s

FreudianSlippers

I think they used to be higher :happysad:

Revolution9

Rest of the world must have really sh!tty schools

El Weirdo

RTE have a different spin on it.

There has been a significant decline in literacy standards among Irish 15-year-olds over the past ten years, according to a highly regarded international education survey.
The OECD's latest PISA study ranked the reading ability of Irish 15-year-olds in 17th place out of 39 countries, compared to 5th place in 2000.
Tánaiste and Minister for Education Mary Coughlan has said she is disappointed with the outcome.
Every three years the OECD measures the performance of 15-year-olds in reading, maths and science across dozens of countries.
In its latest survey, Irish students fared well in science, once again significantly above average. Achievement has fallen in maths, from average to below average.
However, the really significant decline is in reading - from 5th place among 39 countries ten years ago to 17th place now.
The Department of Education commissioned Irish and Canadian researchers to find out why. Their research says changes in the school-going population may have had some influence.
There are more migrant children, fewer early school leavers and a greater inclusion of students with Special Education Needs.
But both groups say these and other factors cannot account fully for such dramatic change.
The Department of Education says it is taking the OECD findings seriously but it is also urging caution and points to other studies of the same student group which showed no decline in ability.
The INTO has said the results will damage the international reputation of Ireland's education system.
However, the primary teachers' union said the results should be treated with caution as all other evidence shows that Irish literacy and numeracy standards are stable.
The INTO said it was important to note that experts from the Educational Research Centre concluded that changes in the curriculum at Primary level cannot explain the decline in performance on reading literacy between 2000 and 2009.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/1207/literacy.html

who what when

The land of saints and scholars my ass!

baltimore sun

El Weirdo wrote: »

RTE have a different spin on it.



http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/1207/literacy.html

you'd think they'd be happy of some good news for a change, I think so long as the schools are still ranked in the top 25 then it's happy days, surely?

Ickle Magoo

baltimore sun wrote: »

you'd think they'd be happy of some good news for a change, I think so long as the schools are still ranked in the top 25 then it's happy days, surely?

I'm not sure how they marry top 25 schools with the 1 in 4 illiteracy stats NALA are quoting...

Fight_Night

There is no way the United States could be ahead of us. Majority of the non private schools there are a complete joke.

El Weirdo

baltimore sun wrote: »

you'd think they'd be happy of some good news for a change, I think so long as the schools are still ranked in the top 25 then it's happy days, surely?

Out of 39? You're easily pleased.

sock puppet

El Weirdo wrote: »

Out of 39? You're easily pleased.

Well you'd assume that by and large these are the 39 countries with the best education systems because of our wealth.

W.Shakes-Beer

Jaysus, thats terrible news. What next?

baltimore sun

El Weirdo wrote: »

Out of 39? You're easily pleased.

......"a major study of 65 countries reveals today".
no mention of 39 anywhere...where you getting that figure from?

,......ah wait I see, from the RTE report...well, the one from 10 years ago only had 39 schools, this one had 65.
Yea, I'm happy with that, small country with a small population, I don't think it's too shabby at all.

El Weirdo

baltimore sun wrote: »

......"a major study of 65 countries reveals today".
no mention of 39 anywhere...where you getting that figure from?

The RTE story.

orourkeda

must be all the irish they're being taught

Monty Burnz

baltimore sun wrote: »

you'd think they'd be happy of some good news for a change, I think so long as the schools are still ranked in the top 25 then it's happy days, surely?

Yeah, aim high
If we're ahead of Sudan, sure that's good enough for us.

Monty Burnz

baltimore sun wrote: »

......"a major study of 65 countries reveals today".
no mention of 39 anywhere...where you getting that figure from?

,......ah wait I see, from the RTE report...well, the one from 10 years ago only had 39 schools, this one had 65.
Yea, I'm happy with that, small country with a small population, I don't think it's too shabby at all.

What does the size of the country have to do with it
Do you think they were counting aggregate IQ?

Naikon

These league tables are complete bollix. All the metrics used to determine school status is subjective fluff. The best schools are usually the ones that cost lots of $$$

baltimore sun

Monty Burnz wrote: »

What does the size of the country have to do with it

less teachers per students, less money invested in education and so on.

Here's more results
Ireland's reading score was 496, highest was 539, S.Korea
Ireland's maths score was 487, highest was 600, Shanghai
Ireland's science score was 508, highest was 575, Shanghai again

TheZohanS

baltimore sun wrote: »

less teachers per students, less money invested in education and so on.

Here's more results
Ireland's reading score was 496, highest was 539, S.Korea
Ireland's maths score was 487, highest was 600, Shanghai
Ireland's science score was 508, highest was 575, Shanghai again

We haven't slipped back to 2000 levels of teachers per students yet and we certainly haven't cut investment in education to anything near 2000 levels.

goose2005

TheZohan wrote: »

We haven't slipped back to 2000 levels of teachers per students yet and we certainly haven't cut investment in education to anything near 2000 levels.

Nor have we started firing bad teachers, which would improve education more than any other step.

Mike 1972

baltimore sun wrote: »

less teachers per students, less money invested in education and so on.

Irish schools are obviously shyte at teaching how to understand statistics

Smaller country = Less teachers AND less students therefore effect of countries size on pupil teacher radio = damn all.

Novella

Yeah, Irish schools are great. Students spend about twelve years learning Irish, the majority sit the Ordinary level Irish Leaving Cert paper and at that stage they're able to write a essay saying that they like, I dunno, milseáin and that they have one sister. Impressive stuff! :rolleyes:

Sticky_Fingers

Novella wrote: »

Yeah, Irish schools are great. Students spend about twelve years learning Irish, the majority sit the Ordinary level Irish Leaving Cert paper and at that stage they're able to write a essay saying that they like, I dunno, milseáin and that they have one sister. Impressive stuff! :rolleyes:

Or perhaps we should be applauding their initiative in not wasting their time on a dead language when they could be brushing up on maths or other subjects that may be useful in their future. Having compulsory Irish is a joke, I never had any interest in the subject (or learning any other language apart from English for that matter) and I had to waste my time "learning" stuff that has yet to be of any use to me.

amacachi

TheZohan wrote: »

We haven't slipped back to 2000 levels of teachers per students yet and we certainly haven't cut investment in education to anything near 2000 levels.

Hmmmm...

Novella

Sticky_Fingers wrote: »

Or perhaps we should be applauding their initiative in not wasting their time on a dead language when they could be brushing up on maths or other subjects that may be useful in their future. Having compulsory Irish is a joke, I never had any interest in the subject (or learning any other language apart from English for that matter) and I had to waste my time "learning" stuff that has yet to be of any use to me.

Ah, I was just half joking!

Einhard

baltimore sun wrote: »

you'd think they'd be happy of some good news for a change, I think so long as the schools are still ranked in the top 25 then it's happy days, surely?

That's a bloody terrible result. Mid table mediocrity. We're the Stoke City in terms of our education system. But we pay Man City wages to our teachers. How on earth can our standing in literacy slip when we're employing more teachers and support staff, and paying vastly increased wages?

baltimore sun wrote: »

,......ah wait I see, from the RTE report...well, the one from 10 years ago only had 39 schools, this one had 65.
Yea, I'm happy with that, small country with a small population, I don't think it's too shabby at all.

baltimore sun wrote: »

less teachers per students, less money invested in education and so on.

Here's more results
Ireland's reading score was 496, highest was 539, S.Korea
Ireland's maths score was 487, highest was 600, Shanghai
Ireland's science score was 508, highest was 575, Shanghai again

It's not about the amount money spent overall, it's about what's spent per capita, or better still, per child. Ireland has less money but obviously less children to educate so it all evens out in the end. Given that our teachers are amongst the highest paid in the world, we should be demanding vastly improved performances. Actually, I think it's unfair to blame it all on the teachers. I'm not an old fogey or anything (I'm a fogey, but not that old!:D), but the system has seriously dumbed down in the ten years since I finished school. Bah humbug I say!

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Einhard wrote: »

It's not about the amount money spent overall, it's about what's spent per capita, or better still, per child. Ireland has less money but obviously less children to educate so it all evens out in the end. Given that our teachers are amongst the highest paid in the world, we should be demanding vastly improved performances. Actually, I think it's unfair to blame it all on the teachers. I'm not an old fogey or anything (I'm a fogey, but not that old!:D), but the system has seriously dumbed down in the ten years since I finished school. Bah humbug I say!

It's not about the money full stop, it's about the system. When I see a well rounded education system that does more than breed consumers and base intelligence on exams, I'll believe good schools.

Einhard

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

It's not about the money full stop, it's about the system. When I see a well rounded education system that does more than breed consumers and base intelligence on exams, I'll believe good schools.

Have to disagree with you there. You can't have a good education system without investment. Obviously, it's not the only factor, but it's an important one.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Einhard wrote: »

Have to disagree with you there. You can't have a good education system without investment. Obviously, it's not the only factor, but it's an important one.

Oh, I agree, but a bad system will never work no matter how much money you throw at it.

Ickle Magoo

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

I'm not sure how they marry top 25 schools with the 1 in 4 illiteracy stats NALA are quoting...

Our numeracy rates being even worse than our literacy rates probably covers that one.

kincsem

baltimore sun wrote: »

According to the latest Pisa study, it says that Ireland's schools are in the top 25 in the world.

Or Ireland's schools rank 21st in the top 25 in the world.

Herb Powell

Naikon wrote: »

These league tables are complete bollix. All the metrics used to determine school status is subjective fluff. The best schools are usually the ones that cost lots of $$$

That's fair ****e talk. Money does not = automatic improvement. I know some fella who went to a fee paying school-he was taught less than I was, teachers skipping classes, half days all the time etc. All these schools seem to do is perpetuate the idea "money makes me/things superior". If a child doesn't want to learn, he is not going to. The trick is getting them interested, not throwing money into the system or sending kids to "the best" schools and hoping things improve

fkt

As long as first years are being taught how to add 2+2 and we're all being forced to learn a pre-historic language that couldn't be more irrevelvant to the real world, it will continue to drop.

Herb Powell

fkt wrote: »

As long as first years are being taught how to add 2+2 and we're all being forced to learn a pre-historic language that couldn't be more irrevelvant to the real world, it will continue to drop.

Maths is something that really does need to be looked at and changed. It's such a jump from primary to secondary, and from junior to leaving cert. I did reasonably ok with jc higher maths, but couldn't handle higher level leaving cert maths AT ALL. Maths needs to be made a bit harder in primary school imo, so that people can actually be ready for the stuff in secondary school. Then again, I despised maths every year in school.

tricks

40 Chinese students joining my course in college for our final year.

Our lecturers warned us that basically, they will make us look like absolute thicks

I don't doubt that

wonderfulname

baltimore sun wrote: »

Ireland's reading score was 496, highest was 539, S.Korea

A point on this, Teaching is a highly respected occupation in south korea, only the top 5% of students are eligible to become one.

Here we used to attempt to lure high achievers into the system by starting them on a higher salary, as of yesterday it doesn't matter if you have a phd or scraped a pass in a lvl7, so the message is why bother?

We place a higher priority on class sizes and a higher teacher:pupil ratio, but its proven that the class size does not matter if the teacher is good enough.

Why not less teachers but better ones? Saves money and gives a better level of education. I'm looking for an article from two years back that backs what I've said if I find it I'll edit it in.

#15

wonderfulname wrote: »

We place a higher priority on class sizes and a higher teacher:pupil ratio, but its proven that the class size does not matter if the teacher is good enough.

You're on the right track, but a bit inaccurate. Class sizes matter when kids are at the junior end of primary school.

As they get older, research indicates that class size is not the defining factor in the outcome.

Chucky the tree

Average wage in 2000 was €32k for secondary school teacher, in 2008 it was €56k. Yet the Unions won't hear of any cuts and have the cheek to come out and claim new teachers are on the poverty line. :rolleyes:

Fratton Fred

So why do I keep being told Ireland has the best education in the world?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Fratton Fred wrote: »

So why do I keep being told Ireland has the best education in the world?

Blind faith?

twinytwo

El Weirdo wrote: »

RTE have a different spin on it.



http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/1207/literacy.html

welcome to the the world of the playstation...how many kids under say the age of 17 actually read books anymore?

Mike 1972

Fratton Fred wrote: »

So why do I keep being told Ireland has the best education in the world?

Because if something is said often enough most people will start to believe it regardless of how ridiculous it actually is.

liah

Well, on the bright side Canada is at 6th..





/slinks out... >.>

wonton

I wonder how much kim jung il paid them to remove the word "south" from in front of Korea.

wonton

I wonder how much kim jung il paid them to remove "south" from in front of korea.

Son Of A Vidic

We will keep slipping down and down, but our ability to talk and spell in 'text speak' will outshine everyone.:(

wonderfulname

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

We will keep slipping down and down, but our ability to talk and spell in 'text speak' will outshine everyone.:(

In all fairness written and texted language are kept separate by teens.

On that note currently watching Imagine on Tg4 and there's a banner in the crowd proclaiming "jo luvs JOHN" so we didn't create the shorthand.