can you get slugs in ireland

thekevin4540

i have a bettinsoli over and under and the bottom barrel is rifled for a slug and i just want to know if you can get slugs for it . i would be the right job for a fox

Tackleberrywho

thekevin4540 wrote: »

i have a bettinsoli over and under and the bottom barrel is rifled for a slug and i just want to know if you can get slugs for it . i would be the right job for a fox

Slugs are restricted under the 2009 SI, and you would be better off with BB on a fox.

Use a choke wrench to remove rifled choke and replace bottom barrel with full or 3/4 choke

thekevin4540

the hole barrel is rifled and there is no choke on bottem only on the top

Feidhlim Dignan

he says the barrel is rifled not the choke tac, if the barrel is rifled i doubt there is a chock in it because wouldnt a slug split or damage the barrel if i was choked,
sounds like the gun is intended for use on the continent, it would be a super driven boar gun or for rough shooting where boar or roe are present

It wasn't me!

You should be able to get slugs from a restricted firearms dealer who could order them if he didn't have them to hand. Of more immediate concern is the rifled shotgun barrel. I'm not sure that that doesn't qualify as a rifle, like a combination gun. Would be worth looking into to make sure you're covered licence-wise. I know Grizzly45 has a combination as well, so he might fill you in on the requirements if necessary.

Tackleberrywho

thekevin4540 wrote: »

the hole barrel is rifled and there is no choke on bottem only on the top

You seem to be in possession of a game combo gun, Congrats!

I misread your post, and assumed a rifled choke, as a rifled barrelled shotty is as rare as hens teeth.

Did a RFD sell you the shotty?

thekevin4540

I got the gun from cork angling outdoor centre

Tackleberrywho

thekevin4540 wrote: »

I got the gun from cork angling outdoor centre for only 300 with a box to hold your cartiges cleaning kit and chokes 3 boxes of cartiges 2 cartige belts and gun case

Were you informed that a "rifled barrelled shotgun" could be deemed as restricted as a rifle with a calibre over 7.62mm?

The Entirebarrel is definitely rifled? ie:when broke rifling is visible for entire length of barrel

Tackleberrywho

thekevin4540 wrote: »

I got the gun from cork angling outdoor centre for only 300 with a box to hold your cartiges cleaning kit and chokes 3 boxes of cartiges 2 cartige belts and gun case

Were you informed that a "rifled barrelled shotgun" could be deemed as restricted as a rifle with a calibre over 7.62mm?

The Entire barrel is definitely rifled? ie:when broke rifling is visible for entire length of barrel

cavan shooter

get a different set of barrels or have the bottom reamed cause all you have at the moment is a fancy single barrel

thekevin4540

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

Were you informed that a "rifled barrelled shotgun" could be deemed as restricted as a rifle with a calibre over 7.62mm?

The Entire barrel is definitely rifled? ie:when broke rifling is visible for entire length of barrel

No he did not say anything about that and yes the full barrel is rifled

cavan shooter

thekevin4540 wrote: »

No he did not say anything about that and yes the full barrel is rifled

CAVEAT EMPTOR.

gunhappy_ie

This conversation came up on here before which led to me ringnig the DOJ for clarification about it.

While the ammuntion is classed as restricted this has more to do with dealers (a dealer licenced to sell non restricted firearms/ammo could not sell them).

It is just a matter of ringing around and asking who has it .. or who can get it.

unfortunatly you may end witha case of the RFD asking that you have a restricted firearms licence.. but thats nonsence.

Sparks

Nonsense it may be, but nonetheless, if you have an unrestricted firearms certificate and are in possession of ammunition on the restricted list, you are breaking the law (firearms act, section 2(1) and 2(2)).

And if the OP's firearm qualifies as restricted and he doesn't have a restricted licence, the liability lies solely with him under the law. If the local Super issued an unrestricted licence when a restricted licence was required, then the issued unrestricted licence is null and void and the OP is in possession of an unlicenced firearm...

Croppy Boy

If the OP's firearm is licensed as a shotgun, he is holding an unlicensed gun i.e. a 0.729 rifle (assuming it is 12 bore), which is definately restricted.

gunhappy_ie

Sparks wrote: »

Nonsense it may be, but nonetheless, if you have an unrestricted firearms certificate and are in possession of ammunition on the restricted list, you are breaking the law (firearms act, section 2(1) and 2(2)).

And if the OP's firearm qualifies as restricted and he doesn't have a restricted licence, the liability lies solely with him under the law. If the local Super issued an unrestricted licence when a restricted licence was required, then the issued unrestricted licence is null and void and the OP is in possession of an unlicenced firearm...

On ringing the DOJ I was informed that restricted ammunition was soley classified for dealers as there are (as you know )restricted and non restricted firearms dealers.

Croppy Boy wrote: »

If the OP's firearm is licensed as a shotgun, he is holding an unlicensed gun i.e. a 0.729 rifle (assuming it is 12 bore), which is definately restricted.

I love the grey areas :):) one to watch !

Sparks

gunhappy_ie wrote: »

On ringing the DOJ I was informed that restricted ammunition was soley classified for dealers as there are (as you know )restricted and non restricted firearms dealers.

Whomever you were speaking to may have forgotten the wording of the Firearms Act, Section 2(2):

(2) Save in any of the cases hereinafter excepted from this section, every person who after the commencement of this Act has in his possession, uses, or carries any firearm without holding a firearm certificate therefor or otherwise than as authorised by such certificate, or purchases, uses, has in his possession, or carries any ammunition without holding a firearm certificate therefor or in quantities in excess of those authorised by such certificate, or fails to comply with any condition subject to which a firearm certificate was granted to him, shall be guilty of an offence under this Act and shall be punishable accordingly.

If you have an unrestricted cert, then you can't have restricted ammunition. It's not incompetence on the part of whomever you were talking to, by the way; it's just that the Act is so complicated that I don't think there actually is any single person in the country who currently knows precisely what is in every section of it; and you're talking about a rather esoteric circumstance - I would be willing to bet a few euro that whomever you were talking to had no idea you could have restricted ammunition that would go into an unrestricted firearm.
A point to remember is that the DoJ can't tell you that you can legally do something that the Act says you can't; because that would be a civil servant having primacy in law over the Oireachtas...

sfakiaman

From a practical rather than a legal point of view would it be the case that only sabot rounds should be used in rifled shotguns, and rifled slugs used in smoothbore guns with cylinder chokes.

Grizzly 45

:

It wasn't me! wrote: »

You should be able to get slugs from a restricted firearms dealer who could order them if he didn't have them to hand. Of more immediate concern is the rifled shotgun barrel. I'm not sure that that doesn't qualify as a rifle, like a combination gun. Would be worth looking into to make sure you're covered licence-wise. I know Grizzly45 has a combination as well, so he might fill you in on the requirements if necessary.

Somwhat different to mine.Mine is a 22 mag over a 20 GA.So I've two distinct calibres ,and liscensed as an unrestricted rifle.Goes back to the old liscensing system,what made more money for the state, shotgun or rifle.?:)

Seen only one other gun like the one described, a French Baby Breton 20 GA ever here[The famous pull apart action] It had a seperate spare rifled barrel that could be changed out,with two allen keys.Which obviously wont work here in this case?
TBH I personally cant see any great improvement in accruacy in slugs being fired from rifled barrels myself.They are very short range affairs[Think musket type distances] Out to 60 70 meters they are fine,over that,go get a rifle.
So possibly go and sleeve the barrel to smoothbore,or if you REALLY need a rifle slug barrel[ like you intend to hunt outside the ROI],liscense it as restricted.OR the other thing possibly is turn the bottom barrel into a "paradox" barrel.Get it reamed out to 75% smoothbore and leave 25% or less rifling.
There IS such a gun,google it .Been around for the last century,it can fire both shot and ball or slugs.Usually it is 50/50 smoothbore/rifled,but doing it 75/25 puts it more in the shotgun than rifle side of things.Then if we ever do get sense here about shotgun slugs:rolleyes:,you will be able to use bot h in the lower barrel.

Safika,et al.
Let me once and for all dispel the MYTH that you can only use slugs in cylinder bore.
You can safley fire Brennecke out of full choke guns.Have done so many times and am typing this with all ten fingers,and eyes and ugly mug intact!!:D
That is the whole idea of the "vanes" on the Brennecke.They are not to give "spin" although they do leave a spiral pattern in the barrel.They are actually supposed to work as a gas check and collapse as they pass thru a choke.It is a German hunting test question,and a good trick question too,because of the spirals left in the barrel.NOTE,I dont know about Extra full or Turkey chokes So I would suggest caution there.

Also ,sabot slugs,DO NOT work in a rifled barrel.In the sense that they wIll come out no problem,but the spin wont do anything for their accruacy.
Sabots are a small missile shaped projectile,encased in two plastic halves.When they leave the barrel after firing the two halves split away and boost the slug on its way with more power.Thus making it more accurate.
Developed from anti tank shells,it is the same principle,but all modern Western tanks[bar the UK Challanger 2, I think??] are now Smoothbore guns to handle sabot rounds.

sfakiaman

I was going by this from Remington.

SABOTED SLUGS AND RIFLED SLUGS: Saboted slugs and
rifled slugs are generally used for shotgun deer hunting in areas
where rifles are not permitted, but are often the preferred choice for
any deer hunting at close ranges. For a saboted slug (like the
Remington Premier Copper Solids, the slug is enclosed in a
polyethylene capsule that falls away when the slug exits the muzzle.
This type of slug can be extremely accurate when fired from a fully
rifled shotgun barrel — capable of producing very tight 2-1/2" - 5
shot groups at 100 yards. A rifled slug (like the Remington
Slugger has helical ribbing around its circumference to enhance its
stability when traveling through the bore and is recommended for
shooting in smooth-bore, open-choked shotguns.

However what I was wondering about would be the effect of firing a rifled slug in a rifled barrel.

sfakiaman

Good bit of information here.


http://www.chuckhawks.com/shotgun_slugs.htm

Grizzly 45

Ok,I'm not going to argue with Remington..They make those slugs,so they must know what they are on about.:D I've never used them[Remington],and can only comment on the Rottweil Brennecke slug as thats the one I've used the most.Along with Federal .

As for firing a rifled slug thru a rifled barrel,Brennecke made a DBBL about a century ago for both shot and slugs.It had very gentle rifling in the hope that the vanes would engage with the rifling,and it wasnt much of a sucess.The ammo was better than the gun,so Whlm Brennecke concentrated on the ammo instead.
Maybe it has improved over time,you can get screw in rifled slug chokes as well nowadays,but INMO it is still a musket trying to do a rifles job.Fine for certain situations,but not a be all to end all.

FISMA

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

Slugs are restricted under the 2009 SI, and you would be better off with BB on a fox.

TackleBerryWho,
Would be tough taking a fox at 100yards with BB's. But with a sabot or slug, not a probelm - iron sights would do just fine.

I don't think I would want to put a slug or a sabot through a barrel that is choked. Especially, if the round needs to grip the barrel in order to rotate. Wouldn't a choke compress the round? Doesn't sound like something I would be willing to test fire.

Could be wrong... Never tried.

Tackleberrywho

FISMA wrote: »

TackleBerryWho,
Would be tough taking a fox at 100yards with BB's. But with a sabot or slug, not a probelm - iron sights would do just fine.

I don't think I would want to put a slug or a sabot through a barrel that is choked. Especially, if the round needs to grip the barrel in order to rotate. Wouldn't a choke compress the round? Doesn't sound like something I would be willing to test fire.

Could be wrong... Never tried.

This is what i was referring to earlier

lamper35

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

This is what i was referring to earlier

ill save u the bother in trying tack ive put many a slug through my smooth bore shotgun no bother has no chokes on it though...i not into all the nitty gritty stuff:D

Grizzly 45

I don't think I would want to put a slug or a sabot through a barrel that is choked.

Wont do it no harm,unless the gun is out of proof or the slug is made from steel[very unlikely]

Especially, if the round needs to grip the barrel in order to rotate.

By and large they dont,maybe some of the newer ones do.but the orginal designs dont spin.They are really fancy musket balls.

Wouldn't a choke compress the round?

Yes it does,but it wont damage the barrel or choke.Being made of lead,it will deform to a certain degree,and these slugs by and large have sloppy tolerances compared to rifle bullets,so it isnt going to sit with the accruacy of a rifle bullet in the barrel grooves.

kermitpwee

Lads is this gun not rifled for a normal cartridge to be used for shooting woodcock rather than a slug. The beretta ultra light was available as a fixed choke with the bottom barrel rifled in a short barrel for shooting woodcock as there was a greater spread than skeet.

Would this be the same as the gun in question here?

kermitpwee

Just had a look at found this
http://www.bettinsoli.it/en/company/productive_process.aspx

Towards the bottom of the page it explains that the barrel is rifled for shooting woodcock not slugs.

Tackleberrywho

kermitpwee wrote: »

Just had a look at found this
http://www.bettinsoli.it/en/company/productive_process.aspx

Towards the bottom of the page it explains that the barrel is rifled for shooting woodcock not slugs.

Reamed, not rifled, case closed

Tackleberrywho

lamper35 wrote: »

ill save u the bother in trying tack ive put many a slug through my smooth bore shotgun no bother has no chokes on it though...i not into all the nitty gritty stuff:D

Are ya trying to tell yer granny how to suck eggs

Sure it says on the Box of slugs smooth or rifled barrelled shotguns

They were not always restricted

kermitpwee

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

Reamed, not rifled, case closed

For super light models, the special “Woodcock” version barrels are available from 60cm Rayè: meaning barrels that have the top barrel with Interchangeable Chokes and the lower barrel is entirely rifled

Not sure whether case is now open or closed

Feidhlim Dignan

i think its still open, and im way more confused than before. why is the barrel rifled if it shoots normal shot?

ejg

Feidhlim Dignan wrote: »

i think its still open, and im way more confused than before. why is the barrel rifled if it shoots normal shot?

Because it aids in spreading the shot quicker. The centrifugal force, of the rotating shot throws the pellets further away from the centre line.
Good for short range.

Back to slugs, I would not use them on fox, despite what many say accuracy isn't great over 50yds and huge overkill for fox. Might as well use a 375 H&H.
Then practicality, mostly one chamber with slug , the other with shot in case of a grey crow..... can go wrong and 30 grams of lead in one lump is no joke when it comes down again.
edi

Tackleberrywho

kermitpwee wrote: »

For super light models, the special “Woodcock” version barrels are available from 60cm Rayè: meaning barrels that have the top barrel with Interchangeable Chokes and the lower barrel is entirely rifled

Not sure whether case is now open or closed

The barrels, made from chromium molydenum steel, are drilled and reamed with special geometry to guarantee the maximum elasticity and excellent ballistic performance.
Furthermore, on some models the barrels are reamed in a particular way with a long forcing cone between the cartridge chamber and the barrel bore, called DualCon that, added to the particular shape of the bore of the barrel, allows the shot from the fired cartridges to adopt a superior velocity and guarantees a considerable reduction in recoil.
For super light models, the special “Woodcock” version barrels are available from 60cm Rayè: meaning barrels that have the top barrel with Interchangeable Chokes and the lower barrel is entirely rifled (the helical radius favours a wide and homogeneous distribution of shot from the first 7-10 meters).
The over and under barrels are supplied with Steel Shot specifics allowing the use of steel shot loaded cartridges.

OP

Specifically for fast spreadin shot

A slug gun, is a horse of a slightly different colour.
You have a bird gun, nothing else !

lamper35

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

Are ya trying to tell yer granny how to suck eggs

no but im sure ur granny has sucked a few;)