Movie "The Pipe" about Shell to Sea" showing in Model this week.

T runner

Hi Folks,

Just letting you know of a film about the Shell to Sea controversy called "the Pipe" made over 4 years by reporter and filmmaker Richard O'Donnell. Richard took his camera everywhere it could go. Showing The Pipe in Sligo Wednesday, Thursday and Saturday in The Model. Could you pass the word about re Sligo and when its on, there is a Q&A after the Saturday night screening. Heres a synopsis:

In a remote corner of the West of Ireland sits Broadhaven Bay. It is
the perfect picture postcard, where the high cliffs of Erris Head and
the Stags of Broadhaven stand sentry at the mouth of the bay against
the mighty Atlantic, as if protecting the delicate golden sands of
Glengad beach and the tiny village of Rossport, which nestles behind
the dunes. However, this peaceful tranquility belies the turmoil that
lies beneath, and the unique nature of the coastline which has
sustained generations of farmers and fishermen, has also delivered to
Shell Oil the perfect landfall for the Corrib Gas Pipeline.
In the most dramatic clash of cultures in modern Ireland, the rights
of farmers over their fields, and of fishermen to their fishing
grounds, has come in direct conflict with one of the worlds most
powerful oil companies. When the citizens look to their state to
protect their rights, they find that the state has put Shell’s right
to lay a pipeline over their own.

The Pipe is a story of a community tragically divided, and how they
deal with a pipe that could bring economic prosperity or destruction
of a way of life shared for generations.

Buford T Justice

Have you seen it?

Is it actually a good documentary with a balanced view, or does it lean one way or the other?

tuppence

Fingers McGee wrote: »

Have you seen it?

Is it actually a good documentary with a balanced view, or does it lean one way or the other?

Well anythings got to be better than Paul W's 'impartial' reporting!;):eek:

T Runner does one need to book in advance or anything, cos am not sure whether i'l be able to get cover to go yet.

T runner

Fingers McGee wrote: »

Have you seen it?

Is it actually a good documentary with a balanced view, or does it lean one way or the other?

I havent seen it yet. Going tommorrow.

He started off as a reporter on the issue and noticed that some of the reporting on TV and in the press was quite different to what he was seeing.

He has being filming for 4 years. For example there was a boat protesting against Shell which was allegedly boarded and attacked by Shell security guys. I think thats in the movie.

It will be more comprehensive than any of the reporting to date. I know Richie personally (hes a runner, and a very good one, finished 2nd twice in Warriors run) and i honestly have huge respect for his honesty and integrity. He is a real journalist. I expect balance and the synopsis seems to reflect that the local community was split.

Youll have to judge for yourself. But one thing is sure, its a unique chance to get info on this very important local issue taht wont come around again.

Heres an interview he did on American TV which may shed more light.

tuppence wrote: »

Well anythings got to be better than Paul W's 'impartial' reporting!;):eek:

T Runner does one need to book in advance or anything, cos am not sure whether i'l be able to get cover to go yet.

Sorry Tuppence, I dont know. Give the model a quick call and they will fill you in on what you need to do. I'd say the saturday one with the Q and A will be very busy.

Cool Running

Cheers T Runner,

Looks good. I've never really studied the Shell to Sea controversy in great depth so if I was around Sligo I would defo go in for a look.

Oh ya he must be some runner to finish 2nd in the Warriors

il gatto

I feel sorry for the locals, being overrun with pseudo leftist UCD students with an agenda and too much time on their hands. Get a job and then empathise with the working man. Crusty bas....sorry:o

Bosco boy

Is it true that Anglina Jole plays Maura Harrington in the "Movie"? Are there any other famous actors in it?

Truley

This thread just reminded me I needed to book tickets. Going on Saturday, looking forward to it.

T runner

Bosco boy wrote: »

Is it true that Anglina Jole plays Maura Harrington in the "Movie"? Are there any other famous actors in it?

No, this would be a bit realer than anything youd see in Hollywood....there is no acting as far as i know........although theres a bit of action I believe

Iorras55

T runner wrote: »

No, this would be a bit realer than anything youd see in Hollywood....there is no acting as far as i know........although theres a bit of action I believe

Exactly. This is footage shot by a freelance newspaper reporter cameraman over about four years in the area, from 2005 to 2008 which has been compiled into this docu-film, an award winner around the globe where it has been shown. Truth is often stranger than fiction and of a great deal more interest! People who think that all the incidences they have read about in newspapers over the years are here may be disappointed because of course, most of those incidences did not have reporting cameramen present but it is an excellent film documenting the lives of those who live in this remote corner of rural Mayo. A lot more interesting and real than many lives elsewhere in Ireland in the 21st century unfortunately but a film not to be missed. Enjoy!

Coronation Street - not at the moment as there's no pipe. Hopefully there never will be!

T runner

Iorras55 wrote: »

Exactly. This is footage shot by a freelance newspaper reporter cameraman over about four years in the area, from 2005 to 2008 which has been compiled into this docu-film, an award winner around the globe where it has been shown. Truth is often stranger than fiction and of a great deal more interest! People who think that all the incidences they have read about in newspapers over the years are here may be disappointed because of course, most of those incidences did not have reporting cameramen present but it is an excellent film documenting the lives of those who live in this remote corner of rural Mayo. A lot more interesting and real than many lives elsewhere in Ireland in the 21st century unfortunately but a film not to be missed. Enjoy!

Coronation Street - not at the moment as there's no pipe. Hopefully there never will be!

Saw it last night: was absolutely fantastic.

A great story. And the story speaks for itself.

A lot of different themes emerge:

How the law applies to big business as opposed to the citizen.

Is it justified for the government to ignore its owns laws for what it perceives to be economic progress? (We should know the answer to this one now that the IMF are in town)

How a community can be fractured by a massive outside influence.

Principles versus compromise.

The power of multinatinal coorporations.

A tiny fishing vessel which took on the mighty Solitaire ship (the only pipe laying ship in the world large enough to lay the Corrib offshore pipe) was like David taking on Goliath.


Maura Harrington, breaking up a shell to sea meeting with the ferocity of her arguments is one of the best scenes ive scene in any film in a long time. What a character!

The footage of the duel from the fishing vessel is unforgettable.

The cinematography was absolutely amazing. One of the shots of a red sunset was very reminiscent of coastal areas of Sligo reminding how close to us in every sense this huge issue really is.

Not to be missed

Pete M.

This is one of the issues that the Sligo Workers Alliance will try to highlight during the planned protest in Sligo tomorrow.

An almighty scandal it is indeed and on our doorstep.

Can't find the link, but I remember hearing about a Shell Exec talking about how no other Country in the world has given them such favourable terms.

Some of the Wikileaks documents detail how Shell have infiltrated every level of ther Nigerian Government. Who do they have on the payroll in ours?

The 'deal' with Shell must be torn up and then renogotiated on our terms to give a proper share of our resources to the people of the Country.

Won't be able to make the screening tomorrow, but hope to catch the film soon.

Iorras55

Pete M. wrote: »

Some of the Wikileaks documents detail how Shell have infiltrated every level of ther Nigerian Government. Who do they have on the payroll in ours?

Won't be able to make the screening tomorrow, but hope to catch the film soon.

Oh yes, quite a few! I'll get barred again if I was to name names. We all know a few of the better known ones but they've a few 'paid' loudspeakers a bit closer to the place unfortunately - newspaper letter writers, people they think would have influence etc etc.... all very unpleasant stuff!! That's how Shell works.

For those who have seen 'The Pipe', since this documentary stopped filming at about 2008, Pat's boat was sunk in very suspicious circumstances (by his account and that of his crewman, balaclavaed men with guns boarded their boat at night, held them hostage while they holed his boat. They then departed the scene and Pat and his local crewman were fortunate that they managed to launch their liferaft and saved themselves. Of course, most of the media managed to make up other stories of pure fiction.

In 2009, having failed to drown Pat, in Spring, when Shell required access to the bay to lay their pipeline, Pat was arrested on trumped up charges, taken to court where the judge called him a thug and sent him to Castlerea prison for seven months, effectively removing him while Shell did their business and laid their pipeline to the beach (and beyond it, where they had no planning permission but they still have not been forced to remove it - soft touch Government - ah, it was just a mistake - shell would never lay pipeline they have no permission to lay!). Pat got out in July after five months when Shell had no more need to keep him locked up! The saga goes on - the local community is now awaiting the decision of the latest an Board Pleanala Oral Hearing held from August to October of this year. Both Green Ministers have decisions to make on planning permissions - Gormley has to decide whether to issue a foreshore licence for building a ginormous tunnel (big enough to take 40 Shell pipelines which will be grouted with the weakest possible cement mix - for easy removal when required, most reckon) and ryan has to decide whether to give planning permission for the project as a whole seeing as no permission has ever been given - project splitting has been the story - bit by bit by bit - nothing connected. Project splitting nightmare. Now ryan has to try to sticky plaster it all together and decide if he should give it permission or not!! Can he be trusted?? He certainly hasn't proven any such thing. See: http://www.corribgaspipeline.ie/

Pete M.

I know.

The whole thing stinks and we have to make sure that we get it back.

Shell to Hell.....

Buford T Justice

Iorras55 wrote: »

Oh yes, quite a few! I'll get barred again if I was to name names. We all know a few of the better known ones but they've a few 'paid' loudspeakers a bit closer to the place unfortunately - newspaper letter writers, people they think would have influence etc etc.... all very unpleasant stuff!! That's how Shell works.

For those who have seen 'The Pipe', since this documentary stopped filming at about 2008, Pat's boat was sunk in very suspicious circumstances (by his account and that of his crewman, balaclavaed men with guns boarded their boat at night, held them hostage while they holed his boat. They then departed the scene and Pat and his local crewman were fortunate that they managed to launch their liferaft and saved themselves. Of course, most of the media managed to make up other stories of pure fiction.

In 2009, having failed to drown Pat, in Spring, when Shell required access to the bay to lay their pipeline, Pat was arrested on trumped up charges, taken to court where the judge called him a thug and sent him to Castlerea prison for seven months, effectively removing him while Shell did their business and laid their pipeline to the beach (and beyond it, where they had no planning permission but they still have not been forced to remove it - soft touch Government - ah, it was just a mistake - shell would never lay pipeline they have no permission to lay!). Pat got out in July after five months when Shell had no more need to keep him locked up! The saga goes on - the local community is now awaiting the decision of the latest an Board Pleanala Oral Hearing held from August to October of this year. Both Green Ministers have decisions to make on planning permissions - Gormley has to decide whether to issue a foreshore licence for building a ginormous tunnel (big enough to take 40 Shell pipelines which will be grouted with the weakest possible cement mix - for easy removal when required, most reckon) and ryan has to decide whether to give planning permission for the project as a whole seeing as no permission has ever been given - project splitting has been the story - bit by bit by bit - nothing connected. Project splitting nightmare. Now ryan has to try to sticky plaster it all together and decide if he should give it permission or not!! Can he be trusted?? He certainly hasn't proven any such thing. See: http://www.corribgaspipeline.ie/

Nice rhetoric you have there, but in fairness it sounds like nothing more than a bunch of conspiracy theorist waffle. Do you have any evidence to back up any of what you have said, or is this all in 'mysterious' circumstances?

Iorras55

Fingers McGee wrote: »

Nice rhetoric you have there, but in fairness it sounds like nothing more than a bunch of conspiracy theorist waffle. Do you have any evidence to back up any of what you have said, or is this all in 'mysterious' circumstances?

As the incident was dismissed instead of being properly and fully investigated (strange), I suppose nobody will ever know the actual truth. As the corruption of Celtic Tiger Ireland unfurls we will probably realise this was no isolated incident - we probably already have! Anybody who gets in the way of FF will be removed!! (a few months later this fisherman with no criminal record or previous misdoings was jailed for seven months for loitering on the sea and other trumped up charges). Just go and see the film and you will see this "criminal" at work for yourself. Then make up your mind who the liars and real criminals are! Film documentary 'The Pipe' at many cinemas now and it will be shown on TG4 at some stage as they are one of the sponsors of the making of the documentary, along with Swiss TV. Some people know the truth when it hits them in the face. Others prefer to perpetuate the Celtic Tiger lies. How sad!

Here's some 'evidence' you asked for. Enjoy.

http://corribgas.net/2009/07/02/pirates-of-the-corribean/index.html

http://royaldutchshellplc.com/2010/05/18/shell-corrib-gas-controversy-call-for-investigation-into-boat-sinking/

www.vimeo.com/8668733

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2009/0612/1224248687390.html

http://www.tribune.ie/article/2009/jun/14/gardai-probe-raid-and-sinking-of-mayo-trawler/

Slidey

I work with a lad from there. He has told us time and again that it is the loud minority speakin for everyone.

Most locals were happy for the work that was available.

You only have to listen to a few of Maura Harringtons diatribes to form an opinion on her sanity

Iorras55

Slidey wrote: »

I work with a lad from there. He has told us time and again that it is the loud minority speakin for everyone. Most locals were happy for the work that was available.

Agree that some locals got a bit of temporary work - on one day, off the next etc.. but from Shell's own figures, the 300 or so 'locals' were well outnumbered by the 900 odd who boosted the 'not so local economy' many miles distant by staying in hotel and other accommodation - all temporary - nothing for a sustainable future for the area.

Also, this doesn't look like much hope for 'local' jobs! Jobs for locals were short term, temporary and in the main, unskilled - and currently non-existent. And, advertised in the UK only, before they have permission of anything from Bord Pleanala or the Government departments of environment or natural resources.

For years, it has been cited 'all permissions granted'. what's this about if that's the case?

http://www.corribgaspipeline.ie/

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2010/1204/1224284771013.html

Truley

Saw this film last night in the model, coming from someone who has spent some time in the area and was very much 'on side' with the anti-Shell campaign I have to say, I was unimpressed.

I was hoping this documentary would give a balanced view on what was going on, but to be honest the film didn't really go beyond the usual heavily edited protest footage, people looking sad, essentially 'look at us poor folk getting shafted by the big evil oil giant.' We know Shell are acting illegally, but there's enough of that on youtube. Too much tugging at heart strings, not enough factual or balanced information.

I really think an inpartial introduction outlining the background to what was going on would have been nice, they just went straight into the violent protest scenes which have only a small part in the story itself. Also, there was literally no mention of the financial aspects of the case, the laws that were implemented and the fact that the Government literally gave away billions of euros worth of gas and oil.

It was heavily biased, what about the locals who aren't in agreement with the Shell to Sea campaign? Why weren't they featured? No insight into to why people want this project to go ahead, beyond the assumption that they're greedy and evil. I'm disappointed, because I thought this documentary had potential to send out a clear and fair message but it was more like propoganda. And this coming from a supporter of the Shell to Sea movement.

T runner

Truley wrote: »

Saw this film last night in the model, coming from someone who has spent some time in the area and was very much 'on side' with the anti-Shell campaign I have to say, I was unimpressed.

I was hoping this documentary would give a balanced view on what was going on, but to be honest the film didn't really go beyond the usual heavily edited protest footage, people looking sad, essentially 'look at us poor folk getting shafted by the big evil oil giant.' We know Shell are acting illegally, but there's enough of that on youtube. Too much tugging at heart strings, not enough factual or balanced information.

I really think an inpartial introduction outlining the background to what was going on would have been nice, they just went straight into the violent protest scenes which have only a small part in the story itself. Also, there was literally no mention of the financial aspects of the case, the laws that were implemented and the fact that the Government literally gave away billions of euros worth of gas and oil.

It was heavily biased, what about the locals who aren't in agreement with the Shell to Sea campaign? Why weren't they featured? No insight into to why people want this project to go ahead, beyond the assumption that they're greedy and evil. I'm disappointed, because I thought this documentary had potential to send out a clear and fair message but it was more like propoganda. And this coming from a supporter of the Shell to Sea movement.

I dont agree with that assesment.

The film maker followed the protest and the film spoke for itself.

There is plenty of scope for someone to make an all comprehensive documentary on this controversy or the handling of oil in Ireland or how oil is handeled by governments worldwide. This was never the intention of this movie.

I felt that the issue of Shell making profits etc was never argued by the Protesters, the issues were clearly the dangers to local human health and livlihood and the disregard of Law by Shell and by the State.

It was a look at what locals came up against when confronted with this impossible situation.

The film was about the effect of a huge external influence on a local community. Making it into a political documentary would have taken from this.
However, I felt that all these issues were touched on through this documentary, but through local eyes.

The comprehensive documantary looking at all the issues surrounding this controversy, is a lot more likelt to be made now

Truley

T runner wrote: »

I dont agree with that assesment.

The film maker followed the protest and the film spoke for itself.

There is plenty of scope for someone to make an all comprehensive documentary on this controversy or the handling of oil in Ireland or how oil is handeled by governments worldwide. This was never the intention of this movie.

I felt that the issue of Shell making profits etc was never argued by the Protesters, the issues were clearly the dangers to local human health and livlihood and the disregard of Law by Shell and by the State.

It was a look at what locals came up against when confronted with this impossible situation.

The film was about the effect of a huge external influence on a local community. Making it into a political documentary would have taken from this.
However, I felt that all these issues were touched on through this documentary, but through local eyes.

The comprehensive documantary looking at all the issues surrounding this controversy, is a lot more likelt to be made now

Fair enough, I guess it was good for what it is. I just felt like a film like this is preaching to the choir really. Reiterating one side's argument rather than trying to open minds and spread clear and honest information about the case. Though I admit it is what it is and it didn't pretend to be anything else. I just thought it had alot of potential that wasn't exploited.

T runner

Showing Wed evening TG4 at 9:30. Well worth a look or turning on the recording button.

MickyMally

Just watched this film on TG4, and it clearly demonstrates that money and corruption can ride over fundamental rights of ordinary rural folk.
It was a disgrace to see the full force of the state employed to protect Shell's interests, plus an army of private security who had no rights to touch anybody.
Where has our Sovereignty gone?
It is clear that people do not have fundamental rights to their own land, furthermore on Eco Eye last night Duncan Stewart was at pains to explain the terrible amounts of CO2 released from bogs that are being cut, yet how much damage to virgin bogland is going to be done when Shell lay the pipe across this bog. It is an absolute disgrace, and I lay the blame at the governments feet. I never felt so ashamed of my state's action against ordinary folk.

Buford T Justice

MickyMally wrote: »

Just watched this film on TG4, and it clearly demonstrates that money and corruption can ride over fundamental rights of ordinary rural folk.

Really? It does that?
I disagree.

Firstly, I thought the film was well made, and was compelling viewing. I thoroughly enjoyed watching it, as it was 'warts and all' in relation to the community.

However, I did find that it was totally biased towards the opposition of the pipeline. It did show that the community was divided, but never interviewed or focused on the people who supported it.

It also shows how people interpret the laws of the land to suit themselves, and who will use it to their advantage and then hide behind it when it suits them.

As an example, the Chief deliberately laid the crab pots in the line of the Solitare, as he maintained it was his right to do so because he has his licence, but then complained that his livelihood was at stake as a result of it.

For a group of people who complain about a case of one rule for us and another for them, they seem to live by the same principles.....

T runner

Fingers McGee wrote: »

However, I did find that it was totally biased towards the opposition of the pipeline. It did show that the community was divided, but never interviewed or focused on the people who supported it.

It showed the people whose livlihoods and lives were directly affected by the
Pipeline e.g. the people who lived beside the raw unrefined oil.

Some people got jobs out of it, they didnt have their homes and lands under threat and clearly their livlihoods were affected to the good. If you are part of a community you must decide on whats best for your community.

There was 2 splits: the split in how to oppose shell. And a more minor split involving those who benefitted financially from Shells prescence (at the expense of their neighbours health and livlihoods).

BTW When Shell had a similar situation in Nigeria nobody was interviewed the people who supported shell werent and the people who opposed them couldnt (they were removed in body bags).

It also shows how people interpret the laws of the land to suit themselves, and who will use it to their advantage and then hide behind it when it suits them.

No, the courts interpret the laws of the land and according to the courts shell continually flouted these laws with assistance from the state.

As an example, the Chief deliberately laid the crab pots in the line of the Solitare, as he maintained it was his right to do so because he has his licence, but then complained that his livelihood was at stake as a result of it.

His livlihood was at stake as a results of the prescence of a toxix pipeline where he fishes I think. Laying crab pots where he did is a tactic but one he is entitled to use to save his livlihood. In doing this he did nothing ilegal as you say.

For a group of people who complain about a case of one rule for us and another for them, they seem to live by the same principles.....

Firstly, I dont think your "laying crabs pots" case is a case of breaking any rules. Secondly, it was done by one man not an entire group of people. To compare this to the flouting of court rulings, European laws and the physical intimidation visited on locals is simply not comparing like with like. To accuse locals of hypocrisy using this argument is ludicrous.

Multinationals like Shell will always try to cut corners when it comes to making money. It is governments job to protect its citizens when their rights are circumvented by anyone. At least that community had the local and European courts to use to protect their rights.

Shell used the Nigerian Army to enforce their interests in Nigeria resulting in teh deaths of thousands of Nigerian men, women and children in the Delta province.

No doubt some locals made a few quid there too. Thats Shells way.

Citizens rights and "progress" need not be mutually exclusive. But in every case citizens rights need to be protected. When the citizen loses these rights it is no longer "progress".

Buford T Justice

T runner wrote: »

His livlihood was at stake as a results of the prescence of a toxix pipeline where he fishes I think. Laying crab pots where he did is a tactic but one he is entitled to use to save his livlihood. In doing this he did nothing ilegal as you say.

I fail to see how a pipeline can be toxic......


Anyway, in Summation to you're post, I'm not in a position to argue here, as you clearly seem to know more about the situation than I do.
I knew very little about the whole thing except what was on the news at the height of the trouble, and I didn't care much for it, passing it off as a bunch of hippie who want to stand in the way of progress.
After watching the documentary, I've just given my opinion of what i took from it as an outsider looking in. I have no knowledge of any European laws that were breached or the physical intimidation that took place. In fact, the only physical intimidation I saw was the lady who went on hungar strike abusing someone at the Shell to sea campaign meeting.

Kristopherus

That film is nothing more than blatant Shell to Sea propaganda. What most of the posters here may not know is that the fiml-maker is a nephew of the Mr O'donnell, the fisherman who has been waging his own war against the agencies of the state. Hence the easy access to close up filming the sea scenes. All not as innocent as it may seem.

calf

Got best feature documentary at they Irish flim and television awards tonight

artyeva

Kristopherus wrote: »

the fiml-maker is a nephew of the Mr O'donnell, the fisherman who has been waging his own war against the agencies of the state. Hence the easy access to close up filming the sea scenes.

that's not true.

Gipo3

T runner wrote: »

It showed the people whose livlihoods and lives were directly affected by the
Pipeline e.g. the people who lived beside the raw unrefined oil.

It is a Gas pipeline, or did you see the film?

UrbanSea

I watched it last night on TG4,must say I really enjoyed it.

itac

Danny DeVito obviously caught it when he was over here...posted this on twitter
"Ok,would you fine folks just see the Documentary Pipe example of the attacks peeps face protecting their livelihood n W Ireland from Shell O"

red sean

Took a trip over there a couple of years ago to see for myself what was happening. You can't trust what you see on tv or read in the papers on a subject as volitile as this. Was'nt very impressed by the large contingent of "crusties" who had arrived from abroad to help the 'Shell to sea' campaign. These permanent protestors, who go from country to country supposedly saving the planet while living off the backs of honest workers (dole), give no credibility to any campaign. The locals should have told them to sling their hook at the outset and then they would have had a greater chance of national solidarity in their aims.
The biggest crooks involved in all this anyway were Ahern, Cowan and associates who gave it all away for free.

T runner

Fingers McGee wrote: »

I fail to see how a pipeline can be toxic......

The Raw unrefined gas inside it the pipeline can be.

I knew very little about the whole thing except what was on the news at the height of the trouble, and I didn't care much for it, passing it off as a bunch of hippie who want to stand in the way of progress.

I dont blame you thats the way it was reported. The state and the state broadcaster were adamently behind "progress" in this one.

I have no knowledge of any European laws that were breached or the physical intimidation that took place.

There was a European Law protecting taht beach as a place of natural beauty/importance. In the film two guys travelled to Europe to make their case and were sucessful in doing so.

The scene where the Gardai and securty guards lined up to protect the work on the beach occurred after the government were informed of the legal status i.e. without a doubt the government were knowingly taking the side of Shell against the side of Law.

AS I said, in Nigeria in the similar situation the Nigerian army massacred protesters. (posssibly some of the same shell security were present there?)

In fact, the only physical intimidation I saw was the lady who went on hungar strike abusing someone at the Shell to sea campaign meeting.

Did you not see the garda sargeant indiscriminately striking the legs of random people with his baton?

The physical intimidation was described, not caught on camera.
Other intimidation included security guards continuously pointing binnoculars at houses. Not as physical but intimidation, non the less and caught on camera.

Kristopherus wrote: »

That film is nothing more than blatant Shell to Sea propaganda. What most of the posters here may not know is that the fiml-maker is a nephew of the Mr O'donnell, the fisherman who has been waging his own war against the agencies of the state. Hence the easy access to close up filming the sea scenes. All not as innocent as it may seem.

There is a rule on this forum about attacking the post not the poster.
This should apply to this film. Attack the substance of the film NOT who made it (is he really his nephew anyway?).

Gipo3 wrote: »

It is a Gas pipeline, or did you see the film?

Nice work detective! Youll notice that i am the OP of this thread and i have actually described scenes from teh movie in post 11.

(That means Ive probably seen it...). Have you read the thread?



Any comment on the substance of the film or have you taken your skills of detection to another case?

Buford T Justice

T runner wrote: »

The Raw unrefined gas inside it the pipeline can be.

As dangerous as overhead electricity cables? Don't get me wrong, sure, there's a risk, but with anything there is always a risk.

Crossing the road, driving your car etc........

Wouldn't the gas be safe within the line unless it was damaged, much the same as driving a car would be until it was crashed etc....

T runner wrote: »

Did you not see the garda sargeant indiscriminately striking the legs of random people with his baton?

I did, but I didn't see the context of why it happened. We don't know how long that standoff was going on for that day, or how violent (or not) the crowds had become before that happened, or whatever other mitigating factors there were (if any). They only chose to show that section of it, imo in order to give an unbalanced view.

T runner wrote: »

The physical intimidation was described, not caught on camera.
Other intimidation included security guards continuously pointing binnoculars at houses. Not as physical but intimidation, non the less and caught on camera.

Described yes, but by people who had a vested interested in exaggerating the situation to their advantage. I'm not saying this happened, but surely you can appreciate the possibility of it happening. That's what i think anyway.

T runner

Fingers McGee wrote: »

As dangerous as overhead electricity cables? Don't get me wrong, sure, there's a risk, but with anything there is always a risk.

Crossing the road, driving your car etc........

Wouldn't the gas be safe within the line unless it was damaged, much the same as driving a car would be until it was crashed etc....

First of all the pipe is going through an area of unstable wet bog.
This means it will move over time as the bog does. If there is a leak it is not just your metaphorical car driver who will be killed, but everyone on the road.

A more suitable metaphor might be driving a car at speed packed with dynamite over a moving road. If the car crashes then everyone in teh neighbourhood gets hurt. Would you bring up your child near such a danger?
No? Then why should they have to!

I did, but I didn't see the context of why it happened. We don't know how long that standoff was going on for that day, or how violent (or not) the crowds had become before that happened, or whatever other mitigating factors there were (if any). They only chose to show that section of it, imo in order to give an unbalanced view.

Sorry but thats not true. We saw a passive crowd of ordinary folk (including middle aged women standing on one side of the road. To move them 1 foot (unnecessarily) this thug was swinging his baton indiscriminately.

It wasnt an organised move by a group of gardai. It was the violent act of one man.

Described yes, but by people who had a vested interested in exaggerating the situation to their advantage. I'm not saying this happened, but surely you can appreciate the possibility of it happening. That's what i think anyway.

Different people described the intimidation. Are you sugegsting tehy are all lying?

Also as ive already pointed out Shells buddies the Nigerian army have body bagged thousands of citizens in Delta province in Nigeria. Perhaps tehse deaths were staged to make Shell look bad?

Shell have form for this type of thing. This is what they do in tehse situations.
They buy people off and when taht doesnt work they intimidate them.

Youve stated already taht you dont know much about thsi situation. If tahst the case then why are you taking a side against the local people and for Shell. Why not be neutral?

Buford T Justice

T runner wrote: »

Sorry but thats not true. We saw a passive crowd of ordinary folk (including middle aged women standing on one side of the road. To move them 1 foot (unnecessarily) this thug was swinging his baton indiscriminately.

Again, my point being that we don't know what went on in the hours before the incident that was filmed. Anything could have gone that brought about that sort of behavior.

I don't know what went on, but I still suspect that its not as clear cut as the film portrays. Worth considering imo.

T runner wrote: »

Different people described the intimidation. Are you sugegsting tehy are all lying?

Not at all. I'm merely pointing out that its not beyond the realm of possibility that this community would exaggerate the situation as they have a vested interest in spinning that kind of story.

T runner wrote: »

Youve stated already taht you dont know much about thsi situation. If tahst the case then why are you taking a side against the local people and for Shell. Why not be neutral?

I'm not taking any sides. I gave my opinion on the film as I saw it. I drew some conclusions from it, which i said here.

Again, I'm not taking any sides here. I'm just pointing out that its possible that the community have exaggerated stories to suit their own agenda, and imo the film is certainly not balanced in that regard. It seems one sided to me.

What I would like, is for a film of the sort to be made which was balanced, and shared both sides of the story equally. That way, people could make up their minds on evidence given to them, and not from a one sided film that it was.

Iorras55

Fingers McGee wrote: »

I'm not taking any sides. I gave my opinion on the film as I saw it. I drew some conclusions from it, which i said here.

What I would like, is for a film of the sort to be made which was balanced, and shared both sides of the story equally. That way, people could make up their minds on evidence given to them, and not from a one sided film that it was.

Oh help!!, some the users of this boards.ie are so dense or just trying to stir up lies to cause doubt in the minds of others. Richie O'Domhnaill is no relation whatsoever to Pat O'Donnell. Richie is a nephew of a man who lives a couple of miles around the peninsula from where these incidents took place. He and his brother often live with their uncle. I sympathise to some degree with the poster who says that he came here and some of the 'crusties' (that seemed to be his name for short-term protesters who come for a weeks or a weekends holiday) should be sent packing - its not only you they occasionally drive mad!

As for the Gardai, I've said it before - it was never them all. But, there was certainly that gang of violent bullies and they terrorised, beat and bruised many innocent locals and genuine protesters in an utterly unacceptable way. It's no skin off my nose if you don't believe it. the problem might be that if they get away with it because some people on here try to defend them, it might be you or your children or your loved ones inadvertently get on the wrong end of their baton wielding next time if they decide to try to protest any kind of wrong done to them!

Many documentaries have been made. Maybe this one will meet your criteria above. I've posted the link before but you obviously didn't get it. It's an hour long - award winning also (2009). The name of this one is PIPE DOWN.

http://www.vimeo.com/8668733/PIPE DOWN

Buford T Justice

Iorras55 wrote: »

Oh help!!, some the users of this boards.ie are so dense or just trying to stir up lies to cause doubt in the minds of others. Richie O'Domhnaill is no relation whatsoeve.............................time if they decide to try to protest any kind of wrong done to them!

FFS!
Who am I defending here? Read my posts again. I have not said that anyone is right or wrong. I simply said that the film seems one sided, and the people against the project seem hypocritical at times, by using the laws to their advantage when it suits them, and hiding behind them when it also suits.

Its worth considering that there are two sides to every story, and one should not believe chapter and verse what is being said by the people from either one of those sides.

Iorras55 wrote: »

the problem might be that if they get away with it because some people on here try to defend them, it might be you or your children or your loved ones inadvertently get on the wrong end of their baton wielding next time if they decide to try to protest any kind of wrong done to them!

That's you're argument? Is that really the best you can do? You might have just said Won't someone please think of the children!!! Somehow i doubt that my opinion here would be the result of an Garda Siochána 'getting away' with something.

What is wrong with people these days, when you can't have a discussion about anything without someone resorting to petty insults.
Just because someone doesn't see you're point of view, doesn't make them dense, and tbh, saying that lowers the tone of you're point.

Can you remind me what lies I'm spouting here, because I can't think of any, and I've re-read my posts.

Oh, I did get the link before and I loaded the film, but I obviously had something else to do, so I didn't get a chance to watch it.


P.S. Its quite easy to tell where you're from too.

Iorras55

Fingers McGee wrote: »

FFS!
Who am I defending here? Read my posts again. I have not said that anyone is right or wrong.

I apologise if you thought what I wrote applied specifically to you. It didn't. You were'nt the only one posting comments! Please don't take things personally as I can assure you they were not meant that way - no need to read your posts again to see what I took offence to. I didn't!

T runner

Fingers McGee wrote: »

Again, I'm not taking any sides here. I'm just pointing out that its possible that the community have exaggerated stories to suit their own agenda, and imo the film is certainly not balanced in that regard. It seems one sided to me.
.

And im asking you are the communities of the Delta Provence in Nigeria exaggerating from their body bags as a result of this company's behaviour?

These stories corroborate eachother and are corroborated by peoples experiences of Shell in other countries. We all saw Shell security men aiming binoculars persistently into peoples houses. This is intimidation.

If you have any evidence to show that their testimony is exaggerated or in that case why their lies dont contradict eachother then lets here it.

I dont believe you are being neutral. Every one of your ideas: gas pipe not really dangerous, locals exaggerating seems to cast doubt on the local community NOT on shell.

As you say you dont know much about it therefore your opinion is not informed.

Buford T Justice

T runner wrote: »

And im asking you are the communities of the Delta Provence in Nigeria exaggerating from their body bags as a result of this company's behaviour?

All due respect, but how the fuck would I know? I'm not talking about Nigeria, I'm talking about the west of Ireland.

T runner wrote: »

I dont believe you are being neutral. Every one of your ideas: gas pipe not really dangerous, locals exaggerating seems to cast doubt on the local community NOT on shell.

Fair enough, don't believe me. Thats you're prerogative.

For the record, I didn't say it wasn't dangerous, I asked the question about how dangerous it could be in relative comparison, ie, car crash, electricity cable falling down etc..... There is a difference.

So, instead of me having to prove anything, can you provide any unequivocal evidence that would prove without a shadow of a doubt that there is absolutely no possibility that anyone in that film would have a vested interested in exaggerating statements that they made on that film?

I'm sure there's a possibility that they would.

T runner wrote: »

As you say you dont know much about it therefore your opinion is not informed.

Doesn't make me any less entitled to it though.

Iorras55

Fingers McGee wrote: »

All due respect, but how the fuck would I know? I'm not talking about Nigeria, I'm talking about the west of Ireland.

You've hit the nail on the head actually probably without realising it. The people who are working for Shell (attendees at the many Oral Hearings over the years here), are mostly foreigners and not a single one of them local to this area in the west of Ireland. To them, North West Mayo might as well be Nigeria. They treat the people with the same distain and arrogance. Their goal is to fill their own pockets. They lie with the greatest of ease and then they tell you,if you speak to them later about it, that, sorry, it is their job.

If the people of Ireland don't protest, they'll soon learn the truth when Shell or other similar corporations come into their area! It will be too late then, the precedents will be set in stone! Protect and excuse the corporations at your peril! History will record this sorry event! Little point apologising to future generations on your deathbed!:rolleyes::rolleyes: