Historical Irish Novel - Chapter One

Cavehill Red

Millicent wrote: »

I see where you're coming from. I agree that it should not be a strain to pick up a dictionary to check a word while reading but I think Pickarooney was suggesting that it is better to err on the side of caution and not use any terminology that might jar a reader out of a story on the first read. I don't necessarily agree but just pointing out that a word like "catamite" is not always going to be understood by every reader.

It mightn't be immediately familiar to every reader, sure. But it's clearly discernible from the context that it means some sort of sexual partner, and given it's the oul lad's 81st birthday, probably a younger one, and probably one that has to be paid.
Burgess was certainly guilty of logorrhoea just as Joyce his idol was. But this isn't an example of it, I don't think.
To be honest, it's the sort of simple thing that really makes an opening line. It's an arresting word that makes you stop and think. Even a banal opening would benefit from the injection of a word like catamite:

"It was raining from the heavens when my young boyfriend Mike rang the doorbell' versus "I found my catamite soaked to the skin on my doorstep during the storm."

Both banal, but one has that hook of something unusual to make you more inclined to carry on as a reader.

Back to the OP, I think it sounds like he's got his plotting nailed down. But his word length is over for a first novel, and the excerpt he's provided could be trimmed to be more impactful while not harming the action or plot, and would have the benefit of making it a shorter, tighter, more appealing prospect to publishers.
I know he's spent a lot of time on it already, but that's all the more reason not to waste the work already done. In his shoes, I'd give it one more tight edit, looking to eradicate the likes of weather descriptions and highlight the qualities of his book - the time, the place, the people and the unusual events he's chosen to chronicle.

kincsem

I'm back. My earlier post said you were using too many words to tell your story. That was not well received, but if you want something different you have to change things.

I am not a writer, but I have read On Writing: A Memoir of the Craft by Stephen King (I got it in the local library). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_Writing

One tip he gives (among many) is to get rid of adverbs. So delete these from your opening - traditionally newly only heavily slowly only lively rarely violently Slowly heavily only Eventually usually neatly casually unsteadily eventually gradually sharply - "thoroughly avoid the use of unnecessary adverbs"

You must have a copy of Strunk and White's The Elements of Style and New Hart's Rules (Oxford University Press). Do you?

old_aussie

All morning......persistent

If it was all morning, then it was understood to be persistent.

Like writing "it was more better"

kincsem

Get rid of these adverbs

harder better safer wiser

biggest

more more
most most


Avoid passive voice

He appeared to be either asleep or dead
I am taking it to be blessed
the livestock market was held in the village of Knock
attracting dealers and farmers from across the county to trade a variety of animals
those who came only to chat and (to) poke at the animals
they knew that prices could be bartered down
their paltry offers were accepted

find “were” and remove it. Rewrite the sentences.


I'm sure there are many more heavy sentences. Change the examples above to freshen the writing and look for more.

kincsem

These are weak

Motionless
Expressionless
Motionless
Listless
Numbness
Dryness
Numbness
Paleness


Here you say the same think twice

In his seven years trading he had rarely seen a day as miserable as this with not a single let up in the deluge from morning till evening

kincsem

I do not write. This is a list writing style books on my shelves. I am retired. I was an accountant.

Essential English for Journalists, Editors and Writers by Harold Evans
Eats, Shoots and Leaves by Lynne Truss
Good English Guide by Harry Fieldhouse
Penguin writers' guides

• How to Punctuate by George Davidson
• How to Write Better English by Robert Allen
• Improve Your Spelling by George Davidson

Writing Tools by Roy Peter Clark
Your Writing Coach by Jurgen Wolfe
My Grammar and I by Caroline Taggart and J A Wines
The Elements of Style by William Strunk and E B White
Report Writing in Business by Trevor J Bentley
Secrets of Successful Writing by DeWitt H Scott
New Hart's Rules by R M Ritter

pickarooney

old_aussie wrote: »

All morning......persistent

If it was all morning, then it was understood to be persistent.

Like writing "it was more better"

This kind of thing comes up a few times. You repeat the point in kincsem's example. Try ask yourself at the end of each sentence if you have learned anything new from it. If not, get rid of it. Rather than (I'm simplifying obviously) saying "It was raining. It was raining a lot. There was a lot of rain" just say it once and say it well.

Millicent

kincsem wrote: »

I do not write. This is a list writing style books on my shelves. I am retired. I was an accountant.

Essential English for Journalists, Editors and Writers by Harold Evans
Eats, Shoots and Leaves by Lynne Truss
Good English Guide by Harry Fieldhouse
Penguin writers' guides

• How to Punctuate by George Davidson
• How to Write Better English by Robert Allen
• Improve Your Spelling by George Davidson

Writing Tools by Roy Peter Clark
Your Writing Coach by Jurgen Wolfe
My Grammar and I by Caroline Taggart and J A Wines
The Elements of Style by William Strunk and E B White
Report Writing in Business by Trevor J Bentley
Secrets of Successful Writing by DeWitt H Scott
New Hart's Rules by R M Ritter

Avoid Strunk and White. A lot of their grammar rules are plain incorrect and have lead to a lot of errors being accepted as fact.

Millicent

kincsem wrote: »

Get rid of these adverbs

harder better safer wiser

biggest

more more
most most


Avoid passive voice

He appeared to be either asleep or dead
I am taking it to be blessed
the livestock market was held in the village of Knock
attracting dealers and farmers from across the county to trade a variety of animals
those who came only to chat and (to) poke at the animals
they knew that prices could be bartered down
their paltry offers were accepted

find “were” and remove it. Rewrite the sentences.


I'm sure there are many more heavy sentences. Change the examples above to freshen the writing and look for more.

Also, a few of your examples aren't passive. Passive refers to when the person or thing that are performing an action are not described, such as in your example "their paltry offers were accepted." There's nothing wrong with passive in certain contexts. Good explanation here.

EileenG

Anyway, the point is, be ruthless in editing.

I highly recommended Noah Lukeman's The First Five Pages.

The first exercise he recommends is to take a page of your story, list and then remove all adjectives and adverbs, and try to rewrite that page using stronger nouns and verbs. It's painful to do, but it makes a huge difference to your prose.

Liberal use of adjectives and adverbs is a red flag to editors.

kincsem

Millicent wrote: »

Also, a few of your examples aren't passive. Passive refers to when the person or thing that are performing an action are not described, such as in your example "their paltry offers were accepted." There's nothing wrong with passive in certain contexts. Good explanation here.

My grammar is poor. I buy books to learn. My aim was to guide the author to books that will help his writing.
I know there is criticism of Strunk & White. If our author has not read the book should he? The book is almost a hundred years old. There is much sense in its ninety pages.
The best help for a writer is reading.

Strunk & White
Original
There were a great number of dead leaves covering the ground.
Improved
Dead leaves covered the ground.

Our author
Original
Their paltry offers were accepted.
Is this better / fresher?
They accepted paltry offers.

Insect Overlord

kincsem wrote: »

Our author
Original
Their paltry offers were accepted.
Is this better / fresher?
They accepted paltry offers.

Going by what you've said there, the people character(s) accepting the offer is not the same in your edit as the character(s) accepting the offer in the OP's original. With that in mind, it's not better at all.

kincsem

I would like the writer to freshen his sentences. They are too complex, there is too much repetition, and there is confusion. He uses “their” seven times in the short second paragraph.

The harder dealers watched and waited, until the cold rain seeped into the skins and into the moods of the anxious farmers and when they saw their [the sellers] spirits weaken and their [the sellers] heads bow and their [the sellers] bodies bend as if a weight was on them they made their [the buyers] move and their [the buyers] paltry offers were accepted with barely a token of resistance.

Both prospective buyers made paltry offers of less than half their [the sheep] worth and both hurried off into the crowd when faced with the seller’s menacing retort.

"Their" and "paltry" repeated. Words repeated in conversation are crutches - "like", "you know what I mean". If you repeat unusual words (paltry) readers notice.

This is my last post. The writer's submission was rejected because it was not good enough for publication. He must make changes. He must improve. Posters appear to be afraid to comment negatively or positively on the paragraphs submitted. They prefer to comment on comments.

Cavehill Red

kincsem wrote: »

This is my last post. The writer's submission was rejected because it was not good enough for publication.

There is no evidence of that. The publisher may have passed for financial reasons or because their roster is currently full. He'll only know when the publisher feeds back to his agent.

kincsem wrote: »

He must make changes. He must improve.

While a tighter edit is no bad thing, I don't see how he needs to change or improve his writing. It's already secured him an agent.

kincsem wrote: »

Posters appear to be afraid to comment negatively or positively on the paragraphs submitted. They prefer to comment on comments.

I already commented on the submitted text. Now I'm commenting on your posts. I'll say this generically - any writer who takes the advice of someone who admits to having poor grammatical ability and who doesn't write themselves needs their head examined.

Esel

At this stage - catamite, tbh.

cobsie

kincsem wrote: »

The best help for a writer is reading.

I absolutely agree with this. I don't think any style guide will help a writer who doesn't read. I think reading - whatever your taste - is the best way to learn.

pavb2

Hey OP I remembered this thread so was interested in how things have progressed since.

Donal Og O Baelach

Hi Pavb2,

I took on board a lot of the advice from this thread (Stephen King's "On Writing" is well worth a read) and completed a thorough re-write of the manuscript in March. I cut a large section out of the novel, shortening it by 20,000 wds. Before I did it, it felt almost sacrilegious to chop those scenes, but afterwards, it didnt seem such a big deal. The book has a new title and is being sent out to more publishers. I am working on a new book which uses the section I cut out.

Thanks to everyone who gave me feedback here, (I should have acknowledged this before now:o) It helped me a lot.

pavb2

Seems to bear out the best of advice 'murder your darlings' etc but also (can't remember who said it) to leave a piece under the bed for 6 months and come back to it with a fresh pair of eyes.

I know once I've 'finished' a piece I'm sick of the sight of it but always come back later with renewed enthusiasm