Horses Headford Road Shocking Conditions

crally

Hi, just to let you know that On Galway Bay on friday they highlighted the starving horses/cattle in galway area. the GSPCA spoke and said it was a huge prob n for hte public to feed them...did not say with what!!

On Saturday about 11.30am Galway Bay had a campaign 'feed the horses'. they had people phoning in donating hay and also people donating their time with means of transport. They gave out a phone number, i only got the mainline one 091 770000. they said for people to phone to report where these horses are. This is great news and i am presuming that they are organising this. i looked it up online now and i cant see any ref to it so i emailed them asking if it will be adv online and if it will be ongoing.

I spoke to a garda on Fri n he had gone out to the headford road (prob foll radio ad) said there were 7 horses in a field, one dead horse in a field further in (all on Tolca Antiques side of the road), there were other horses with rugs etc on with access to the river and on hte other side of the road there were 2 horses looking very thin but being fed. i am going to go out there today to see how it looks.the big prob is that they might end up being overfed? So could people phone Galway Bay reporting where starving horses/cattle are so that the campain is kept going! i am going to phone them on Monday just to say congrats to them for doing this and also to find out more about it. thanks

Carolyyn

It's great that we've raised awareness about this to shame the Garda and Council get up of their ass and do something. It's a shame that it takes that in this country to get the people that our tax money pays for to take responsibility and do their job to act against blatent animal cruelty.

I'm going to go out for a look when I'm off on Wednesday to see what is going on there, and see if they need fodder. Thanks to everyone for their efforts and kindness.

Discodog

Whilst it is good that GBFM have become involved it doesn't solve the problem. The owners of these horses may love the idea of leaving their feeding to someone else. How will volunteers know which horses to feed ?. Will they be aware of any specific needs ?. If the Council see that the horses are being fed it may make them delay the control legislation.

The Gardai cannot act unless a crime has been committed. Cruelty is defined as "causing unnecessary suffering". We cannot expect a Garda to be an expert in animal welfare so they rely on Vets & SPCA's.

The Control of Horses Act has been around since 1996. The Council have had many years to address this issue. The key reason for the Act is to ensure that any horse can be traced to an owner. The owner can then be made responsible for it's care & or prosecuted.

TristanPeter

The fact is these horses are NOT being fed now by their owners regardless of whether there is an act in place or not. As one poster pointed out above, a horse was found dead in a field on the Headford Road. Until the council enforces the act (which could be a long time given that it has been around, as you say, from 1996) there needs to be some form of intervention.
These animals are starving to death now. I agree that the issue has to be dealt with through the correct channels but in the meantime the horses have to be helped. The people with the expertise i.e. the vets with the council and Dept. of Agri. are not doing their jobs. As it is now, the GSPCA and the Gardai can verify that these animals have been abused. It's on record so surely that's enough for prosecution of the owners in the future?
The situation is far from ideal but I would hate to stand around doing nothing whilst waiting for some owner (who may never be found) to be prosecuted for cruelty. Also, as far as I know the GSPCA were looking for donations of food to a depot so that they could distribute it themselves and not for people to do it themselves.
The neglected animals should be assessed by a vet, photographed and placed on record. This could be used to prosecute the owners in the future. In the meantime they should be fed if possible and impounded.

Discodog

Of course they need to be fed now & this must be coordinated. The GSPCA are the obvious candidates however I have heard that they have not got involved with horses before & have referred horse queries to the Min of Ag. They are also very short staffed & I believe that their only inspector has been put on a three day week. Seizing the horses means making a long term commitment to their welfare. In reality many horses in this situation have been put down as the long term care costs are significant.

I would love to see GBFM devoting as much effort to getting the Council & Gardai to do their job. If this had been done last year then we not have the problem now.

I may sound negative but I am trying to be realistic. Feed now but don't let the negating of the immediate issue stop the introduction of a long term solution.

Carolyyn

An update on the horses on Headford Road. It was busy out there today!.

I was out there and met up with Valerie from Galway Bay FM and lady from GSPCA. A load of 7 bales of sillage and hayage was delivered by farmers from the Headford area who had organised a collection from farmers in the area. These 3 very kind men had taken time out from their own work to bring in the fodder. They used 2 fine big Massey Ferguson tractors with front loaders to get the bales in, and let me tell you these were needed in the boggy land! It was difficult to get into the land but they were excellent at manovering the tractors. There should be enough fodder there to do them until early January.

We rounded up altogether 9 animals and there were another 2 lying dead on the land. Two of the mares were in foal. There is no grass for them to feed on out there, and they were trying to saw them eating the thorny bushes.
A reporter from RTE news was there also filming for a feature on the issue of neglect of horses nationwide. This should be on the news this evening.

If anybody wants to help out in some way please contact Valerie in Galway Bay FM between 12 and 2 on 091 - 770 000. She is co-ordinating the collection and delivery of fodder for horses in need. She is wonderful and has done so much to highlight this issue. They got a great response to the campaign from the farming community which is wonderful because they can provide and colllect the fodder amongst themselves and have suitable transportation for getting onto the land. They also know what fodder suits the animals and how to distribute it, etc.

TristanPeter

Carolyyn wrote: »

We rounded up altogether 9 animals and there were another 2 lying dead on the land. Two of the mares were in foal. There is no grass for them to feed on out there, and they were trying to saw them eating the thorny bushes.

adrenalinjunkie wrote: »

How many times now have I posted on this forum for people not to feed horses ffs!!

I understand that it's not a good idea to feed a horse just anything but look what happens when no one feeds them anything, or doesn't give them any water or shelter. Two dead horses and they are so hungry that they try to eat thorny bushes. Would the horses in foal survive without intervention? It looks as if the owners were never going to do anything about it whether someone else fed them or not. At least now awareness of the situation has been raised.

Thanks for the post Carolynn. The weather is due to turn really nasty from tomorrow onwards so I'm sure any help those animals can get will be of huge benefit to them.

Cherry Blossom

TristanPeter wrote: »

I understand that it's not a good idea to feed a horse just anything but look what happens when no one feeds them anything, or doesn't give them any water or shelter. Two dead horses and they are so hungry that they try to eat thorny bushes. Would the horses in foal survive without intervention? It looks as if the owners were never going to do anything about it whether someone else fed them or not. At least now awareness of the situation has been raised.

Thanks for the post Carolynn. The weather is due to turn really nasty from tomorrow onwards so I'm sure any help those animals can get will be of huge benefit to them.

I agree it's great that the GSPCA have stepped in but it took them long enough, is there any indication on what caused the death of the 2 horses? I'm not sure how accurate that point on the silage is, I'm sure the GSPCA would have more sense than to feed siliage to emancipated horses. To be honest I'd expect them all to die if they are being stuffed with siliage after being starved. In my experience farmers generally have no clue what suitable forage for horses is. I'll be watching out for it in the media.

TristanPeter

At least they are trying to do something.

Discodog

With 2 dead horses the GSPCA can hardly say that there is a lack of evidence but I am willing to bet that no one will be prosecuted. It sounds as if all of these horses need a veterinary examination & PMs on the dead ones.

Carolyyn

adrenalinjunkie wrote: »

I agree it's great that the GSPCA have stepped in but it took them long enough, is there any indication on what caused the death of the 2 horses? I'm not sure how accurate that point on the silage is, I'm sure the GSPCA would have more sense than to feed siliage to emancipated horses. To be honest I'd expect them all to die if they are being stuffed with siliage after being starved. In my experience farmers generally have no clue what suitable forage for horses is. I'll be watching out for it in the media.

It's really easy to sit down and moan and b*tch on an Internet forum about this, much harder to get out and do something practical about it :rolleyes:
What are your suggestions on improving the animals condition?, what have you contributed in a practical sense to help them?

All the farmers who helped out yesterday are lifelong horse owners who know how to care for them and what to feed them. They are doers not talkers which is why they gave up their day and came up from Headford with the fodder. It is much more likely that the animals will die from starvation over the next cold spell than die from eating siliage.

Discodog

I think that you are being rather unfair. I believe that AJ comes from Donegal - hardly easy to pop down !. Also the advice given by AJ is correct. I am too far west to get GBFM but what concerns me is the absence of the word Vet.

I have personal dealt with starving animals & it is torture. One of my own dogs only survived by eating the dead bodies of her companions. She was on an IV for 3 days & it was a month before she could eat properly. I had to watch the poor girl begging for food that I could not give her.

The first priority on Valerie's list has to be a Vet. There are many experienced rescuers here & you will notice that we all say to go to a Vet before you act unless you are 100% sure of what you are doing. I could drive down & "assess" these horses but I am not qualified or capable.

If two have died of starvation, which may not be the cause, then it is a major cruelty incident - even in Ireland the owner could well get jail time. Before you feed any starving animal a Vet has to establish it's overall condition & especially it's internal organs. If you feed & what you feed depends on the ability of these organs to process the food.

I am sure that Valerie could appeal successfully for Vet assistance. There may be some niggling over whether it is the responsibility of the County Vet. Once the animals have been assessed then the Vet could give Valerie a list of requirements including medication, food etc. She could then launch an appeal for financial help, feed & manpower. Usually you need to feed very small amounts several times a day so manpower is important.
The Vet reports would also provide the evidence for a cruelty prosecution if the conditions were applicable.

Sorry but I disagree that the horses are more likely to starve than die from silage ingestion. I have seen quite a few starving horses & it takes a lot to kill them. Colic can kill in hours.

If the farmers are horse experts then they will know the necessity of Veterinary advice. In my experience there is some merit in AJ's comments regarding farmers & horses. I am surrounded by ponies. All are being kept by farmers that have lifelong experience. Some are being kept well but others are definitely not.

The only expert on starvation is a Vet.

TristanPeter

I don't think anyone is arguing against the points you are making. All that is being is said is that something has to be done. Simple as that. Without help the horses will starve to death. Whether or not colic is a problem is besides the point because they will die anyway. Yes, a vet is absolutely essential and it should be the number one priority. Saying that farmers might end of causing more problems than there is at the moment doesn't make any sense. How could their situation be any worse than it is at the moment? It's like saying "I can't feed my starving dog because it might kill it."

Great care has to be taken when feeding these horses: Fact.
Not doing anything will certainly kill them: Fact.

Carolyyn

Discodog, excellent idea! now pick up the phone and call Valerie and pass on your advice.

The DSPCA Inspector was onsite yesterday and they intend to arrange a vetinerary inspection, people doing something not talking forever around the issue and getting nowhere.

Discodog

Carolyyn wrote: »

Discodog, excellent idea! now pick up the phone and call Valerie and pass on your advice.
The DSPCA Inspector was onsite yesterday and they intend to arrange a vetinerary inspection, people doing something not talking forever around the issue and getting nowhere.

I emailed that advice to Valerie nearly a week ago !. I guess that you mean GSPCA if so then getting a Vet in should of been their absolute first priority. By now evidence relating to the dead horses will be irrelevant. Again you may not realise that some of us have previous experience with the GSPCA.

You should bear in mind that some of the people posting here have been rescuing animals for many years. You seem to have the impression that the people trying to advise you do nothing. I offered to run a Galway group for monitoring neglected horses a long time ago.

Making derisory comments at those who offer advice is hardly constructive.

Discodog

TristanPeter wrote: »

Whether or not colic is a problem is besides the point because they will die anyway. Yes, a vet is absolutely essential and it should be the number one priority. Saying that farmers might end of causing more problems than there is at the moment doesn't make any sense. How could their situation be any worse than it is at the moment? It's like saying "I can't feed my starving dog because it might kill it."

Great care has to be taken when feeding these horses: Fact.
Not doing anything will certainly kill them: Fact.

I could not feed my starving dog until we were pretty sure that she was medically strong enough. Believe me a dose of Colic is 100 times worse than what you have now because it can kill so quickly - any horse owner will tell you this.

I think it's a shame that people cannot accept that, to be of any benefit, advice has to be straight forward & truthful. There is no reason to see contradictory advice as a reason to brand people as "talkers & not doers".

Neither do I think that we need to sink to the level of TV adverts that use the word "Fact". Trust me many here know the "facts" far more than you could imagine.

TristanPeter

How many times do you have to tell us the same things? You are like a broken record. WE KNOW about the colic problem. Get over it. We are trying to deal with the problem so stop trying to have the last word all the time. Why don't you put your energy into helping rather than saying the same things over and over again. Give it a rest. If it wasn't for us taking the initiative ALL those horses would be dead. If I hear about colic one more time...No one is arguing about the points you have made.

Cherry Blossom

I do what I can, within a reasonable distance of where I live. I have been out at 3am with a mare that was having difficulty foaling where the owners were nowhere to be found. I have cut headcollars off young horses that were in danger of growing into their face or restricting their grazing. I've kept a stallion for a month that I found wandering on the road. I have 2 rescued ponies here that will stay here for the rest of their life and a horse that I've no doubt would have been factoried otherwise. As for feeding it's fortunate enough that I have yet to come across a senario like this anywhere near me. If I do, I have some knowledge and the means of doing it and wouldn't hesitate to do so if it came to it. I would also call out my own vet and pay for it myself if I felt a situation called for it. Believe me I do my part.

In saying this this I do acknowledge that I haven't seen for myself what is going on in Galway, all I can do is judge from 1st hand accounts to the best of my ability and pass on relevant knowledge to those who may be in a position to execute it. It seems to fall on deaf ears though so maybe I should stop being a talker and keep it to myself!

<ETA> On re-reading this post, it seems a bit condecending and abrupt which was not the intention but I don't know how to re-word it while still portraying the sentiment.

Yenwod

Fair play lads for being so active in trying to get those horses sorted. It's shocking that something like that can just be ignored by the relevant authorities and things only get done with a lot of pressure. And all that red tape bull**** of "public land" and leagal loopholes...boils my blood

magentas

guys this is getting a little bit silly, you are all concerned for the horses and have thier health and welfare interests at heart and by the sounds of it you are all actively involved in helping in one way or another...so why are ye all bickering???

carolyyn and tristan peter, I think you are been very unfair with your comments to discodog and adrenalinjunkie, they are trying to offer good advice based on their years of experience working in animal rescue, you should try to respect that instead of attacking every comment they make

seriously, maybe if ye worked together and listened to each others ideas/suggestions/expertise instead of criticising...

well done to everybody involved though

TristanPeter

Yes, no need for bickering. Advice was given and it was taken on board. The advice is sincerely appreciated. I don't care for arguing on an online forum when, as Magentas pointed out; it's the welfare of the animal that matters ultimately. Galway Bay FM featured the horse's situation earlier today. They commented on their severely weakened state, the two dead horses, the pregnant horses etc. but you can be sure that this situation would have gone on indefinitely if positive, constructive action was not taken by concerned members of the public and I'm sure that the action was taken with this advice/veterinary consultation in mind. Issues of colic etc. were a moot point at that stage as the horses would have died anyway.

Discodog

TristanPeter wrote: »

How many times do you have to tell us the same things? You are like a broken record. WE KNOW about the colic problem. Get over it. We are trying to deal with the problem so stop trying to have the last word all the time. Why don't you put your energy into helping rather than saying the same things over and over again. Give it a rest. If it wasn't for us taking the initiative ALL those horses would be dead. If I hear about colic one more time...No one is arguing about the points you have made.

You attended a meeting with NOB & wrote/phoned various authorities & so did I - last year. The only reason that any of us repeat ourselves is when it appears that the message, especially when it is a potentially lethal one, has not got through. If I lived near Galway then I might of taken a more direct role. Given my intolerance of LA's & some SPCA's it may be a good thing that I didn't.

When posters advised regarding feeding you seemed to dismiss the comments & argue that the horses would be dead anyway. If you have saved these horses then well done. Maybe, just maybe, others here have also saved lots of animals in their time.

Spending time in the UK spoilt me in that I got used to a system that worked to protect animals. I came across a few Galway's & together with the RSPCA they were always sorted. I was talking to a friend who has just rehomed some of the first of the RSPCA horses starved at Spindle Farm & there were over 100 of them !. Even in a recession the effort made by UK citizens has been superb. It would be nice to start a campaign here to encourage existing horse owners to take one rescue. Plenty of people here made a fortune out of horses in the good times maybe a few could put something back.

There are neglected horses all over Galway. We have a clear choice in that we either take responsibility for them all & accept that this process will be ongoing or we insist on legislating to stop the situation from continuing. Maybe the feeding farmers will take in the horses as a long term commitment, maybe not. Unless suitable long term homes can be found they will be slaughtered.

I will continue to do what I believe to be right & that is to get the Council to admit to it's obligations & pass a By Law to protect all horses now & in the future.

Everyone has won for the moment. The owners are off the hook & don't have to bother with feed or worry about prosecution. I just hope that they don't read this as a green light to keep even more horses.

Feel free to criticise me personally as much as you like. I know how much energy that I have put into the hard graft & heartache of animal rescue over the years. Trust me when you have to use a Pistol every week it really focusses the mind.

There will always be bickering (many rescues can't stand each other !) because the emotional immediate need takes precedence over the long term solution. If these horses are saved long term & I hope that they are, then it must not be seen as the end of the matter. There can't be another campaign for another group of horses in a few weeks time.

TristanPeter

Discodog wrote: »

You attended a meeting with NOB & wrote/phoned various authorities & so did I - last year.

Just for the record everyone,Niall O'Brolchain has not done anything at all significant yet in response to this whole issue despite saying he would on a few occasions. I really hope this is due to the government debacle at the moment and not because he's full of sh**e.

Discodog wrote: »

If you have saved these horses then well done.

I'm not saying I saved them. I try to help if I can. I'd say these horses are a long way from being saved yet given their reported condition. A long term solution is, I agree, the only way out of this mess.

Discodog wrote: »

There will always be bickering (many rescues can't stand each other !) because the emotional immediate need takes precedence over the long term solution. If these horses are saved long term & I hope that they are, then it must not be seen as the end of the matter. There can't be another campaign for another group of horses in a few weeks time.

It is an emotive issue and tempers flare easily. An end to bickering . Let's try to stay focused on the bigger picture.

planetX

Drove past yesterday and saw the horses happily munching away - just want to say a big well done to those of you who made this happen. Whatever the politics, there are some horses who will be stronger to get through this cold snap thanks to you.

TristanPeter

That's great news and thanks for the update. Just have to make sure it doesn't occur again with them. The GSPCA said they are being monitored but they are worried that if they get moved they won't be able to keep an eye on them. They also said because they are on council land they can't really do anything. The county council will have to step in here and help sort this out. The owners must be prosecuted for this and the question of prosecution was put to the GSPCA today and whether or not they intend to pursue this legally. I don't know who is eligible to make these charges but hopefully, if it's not them who can do, they will know who can.

Re. the monitoring; the GSPCA and Galway Bay FM (Valerie Hughes) have been notified (by myself included) about the potential problems associated with food intake as pointed out by previous posters. I do hope they have taken this into consideration.

Discodog

TristanPeter wrote: »

Just for the record everyone,Niall O'Brolchain has not done anything at all significant yet in response to this whole issue despite saying he would on a few occasions. I really hope this is due to the government debacle at the moment and not because he's full of sh**e.

Following meetings, reports, debates I have been left with the conclusion that he is either incompetent or just doesn't really care. The same applies to Gormless. The Greens had a unique opportunity to introduce proper animal welfare legislation. They focussed their efforts on ineffectual hunting & breeding Bills, neither of which will make a scrap of difference, rather than getting an all encompassing Animal Welfare Bill. All they had to do was take the Scottish Bill, change a few words, & pass it.

The GSPCA are so wrong, yet again. If an animal is on Council land & is or has been subjected to cruelty, the Council are deemed to be the owners unless proved otherwise. It's in their own legal handbook !.

Cruelty is a crime like any other crime so it is the Guards that prosecute based on evidence from witnesses like the GSPCA & Vets. But anyone can go to the Guards & report cruelty. The only requirement is evidence & in cruelty cases this always includes Vet evidence. So a Vet examines the horses including the dead ones. If he/she agrees that they have been subjected to "unnecessary suffering" then they write a report to that effect & detailed photographs are take to back up the report.

The Guards are very like to proceed with such expert evidence & they know that it will weigh well in Court. So much so that the defendant would need to find a Vet to speak out in his defence - not easy.

Another crucial thing for tracking is to take good photographs that show each horse's identifying features. As they are on Council land the County Vet could microchip them. Then put the photos on a website & get some volunteers to monitor the position & condition of each horse when they see it.

The Council could seize the horses & move them to some secure land. Then GBFM could launch an appeal to find them foster or rehomes. So much depends on publicity. For example "Galway Gardai refuse to prosecute horse owners" or "Galway Council enjoy their Christmas whilst Horses starve".

The most annoying part of this is that the GSPCA, the Councils, & the Guards are all passing the buck & ignoring the law.

tasha200

I drive past these horses everyday.. last year I called the gspca as a dead horse was lying literally inches away from the road...
Any farmer who leases his/her land to these horses should face criminal prosecution...
When I see these horses being whipped everyday while they are pulling an asshole who constantly whips them, obviously hungry and illtreated I feel like driving my car into the asshole..
I cant do much, I wish I could... I nearly cried when I saw them today eating bales of hay.. the owners probably having a good laugh at the free feed...
These horses are ill treated, no shelter, starved then made to run up and down the headford road...
These horses have been there for ages, yes the cold spell has highlighted their plight, but it is a disgrace that the owners are not prosecuted, for god sake we all know where they live... It is a disgrace horses are even kept on this stretch of land.. as i said, a huge thankyou to whoever gave these horses food, a small hand of help to these animals, but ulitmately it will not save them form the cruelty they face in summer and winter... what can be done?? it seems nothing can be done... all I know is the owners of these horses will get 'no luck' and should be given lifelong bans from owning any animal.............

Discodog

We can all take photos, & report the matter to the Gardai. If we all did this & insisted on them following it up they would have to act. If we all did this then we would be supporting each other & providing additional evidence.

Get a list of Councillors seeking re-election. Email each one with the following question:

"Will you support the immediate instigation of a By Law to make Galway a Controlled Area for Horses - Yes or No ?. Your response is required asap to enable us to decide who we will vote for."

If they get a number of emails it will make them think.

tasha200

Discodog wrote: »

We can all take photos, & report the matter to the Gardai. If we all did this & insisted on them following it up they would have to act. If we all did this then we would be supporting each other & providing additional evidence.

Get a list of Councillors seeking re-election. Email each one with the following question:

"Will you support the immediate instigation of a By Law to make Galway a Controlled Area for Horses - Yes or No ?. Your response is required asap to enable us to decide who we will vote for."

If they get a number of emails it will make them think.

Thanks, will do this, after the furore dies down and the horses still there, will try to get photos of the horses being whipped, and of any i see which are obviouly mlanourished, though it still feels like a lost cause somehow, dont thing galway co co or any politician has this high up in their book of worries, considering all the people not getting bonuses this year or next etc etc.. Ireland is truly abismal when it comes to animal protection, but will follow your advice, as it has played on my mind for years now.. those poor animals that I have seen everyday,, they do play on my mind x

also, sorry to sound ignorant, but what is a controlled area for horses and what impact would it have if it was introduced, thanks x

Discodog

The people who care & live in Galway need to get together online.