President McAleese : Why does she keep mute ?

Guillaume

How come the President of Ireland is not saying nothing to her people during the crisis we are facing ?

I know she only has a "symbolic" position. However, she is still the President of the Republic of Ireland.

And as a matter of fairness and above all concern toward her people she should at least make an announcement or/and reassure them. Each year the Queen of England appears on TV, above all near this time of the year. Same things in most country in Europe.

In Ireland, McAleese says nothing : do not reassure his people, do not provide any official statement to comfort them, do not appear on TV or radio or papers.

While the country is facing many troubles, the least that the President could do is to assume her responsibility and to speak to her people !

KerranJast

She makes a TV address every year at Christmas too afair.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

why do you keep saying 'his' ?

MissL

You do realise that the president is Mary McAleese? I understand that its been a while since we heard from HER but surely her sex is something that you'd remember?

Elevator

who really cares!?!

the country would hardly come to a stop if she doesn't say anything in public

gonedrinking

I think its obvious to most at this stage of the need to abolish the president position, we can't afford it and it provides no value for money or any other benefit to Ireland (unless you consider having diner with wanted war criminals as being beneficial to Ireland).

looksee

Of course we need a ceremonial head of the country, apart from anything else she does all the diplomatic stuff while the taoiseach is busy running the country.

If she came on tv and told us not to worry, mammy won't let us fall in the snow, she would get a lot more slagging, its a no-win situation.

Yakult

I've always believed that Ireland having a President is a joke and havent been proved wrong yet.

Should either abolish it all together or give power to the president. Pure stupid setup in this place.

Guillaume

KerranJast wrote: »

She makes a TV address every year at Christmas too afair.

Does she ?????????????????

Guillaume

R_H_C_P wrote: »

I've always believed that Ireland having a President is a joke and havent been proved wrong yet.

Should either abolish it all together or give power to the president. Pure stupid setup in this place.

I agree. What the point to have a President who has no power whatsoever. I am French, originally, and as you know Sarkosy is actually managing the country. But my main point was her non-reaction and seems to show no concern when her country is falling apart.

imme

Guillaume wrote: »

I agree. What the point to have a President who has no power whatsoever. I am French, originally, and as you know Sarkosy is actually managing the country. But my main point was her non-reaction and seems to show no concern when her country is falling apart.

well, that's just the kind of President we have, same as in Italy, Austria, Isreal, Germany... loads of places really. The role of the Presidency is very different to the role in Ireland.

There is nothing she can say that willmake everything 'ok'. She doesn't know the details of what the government is going to do. She can't direct the government to something.



There seems to be one or two threads like this every week nowadays.

Dempo1

Probably because there is **** all happening up North!

Hootanany

She is busy counting her money:mad:

The Raven.

Ideally she should indeed 'assume her responsibility and to speak to her people' in light of the current state of the nation. However, it would seem particularly hypocritical to sympathise with the people of Ireland at this point in time, while she continues to unnecessarily spend so much of their rapidly vanishing money.

PRESIDENT Mary McAleese used a €2,950-an-hour government jet to travel to destinations within Ireland at least nine times this year, it has emerged.

The travel, which is estimated to have cost at least €60,000, came despite McAleese having the permanent use of two garda drivers and cars.

Air Corps sources confirmed to the Sunday Tribune that use of the Learjet had become largely routine for engagements and functions in the North. On each occasion, the jet was used to fly McAleese – and a small delegation – to Belfast or Derry.

The Learjet is also understood to have been used by the President to fly to Kerry to attend the Munster football final during the summer.

Last week, the Sunday Tribune revealed that McAleese used the Learjet to fly to Belfast to open a school and a community centre. The day after her Belfast trip, Ireland's four-year recovery plan was announced and the following day, the president gave a speech in which she spoke of understanding the "distress" of Irish people.

Read more...
http://www.tribune.ie/news/article/2010/dec/05/mcaleese-used-government-jet-for-nine-internal-fli/

Oh wait...she did speak to the poor people of Ireland. She really 'understands' their 'distress' :rolleyes::rolleyes:!!

Joeyjoejoe83

The Raven. wrote: »

Ideally she should indeed 'assume her responsibility and to speak to her people' in light of the current state of the nation. However, it would seem particularly hypocritical to sympathise with the people of Ireland at this point in time, while she continues to unnecessarily spend so much of their rapidly vanishing money.


Oh wait...she did speak to the poor people of Ireland. She really 'understands' their 'distress' :rolleyes::rolleyes:!!

And if she didn't travel to these places, you'd be first complaining she didnt do enough. Save the criticism for the corrupt politicians.

dabestman1

I could be wrong but doesn't the constitution prevent her from saying much, i cannot think of former presidents saying much the 80's. Most people used this as a retirement home in the past with the exception of Mary Robinson

later12

Joeyjoejoe83 wrote: »

And if she didn't travel to these places, you'd be first complaining she didnt do enough. Save the criticism for the corrupt politicians.

From The Sunday tribune

Last week, the Sunday Tribune revealed that McAleese used the Learjet to fly to Belfast to open a school and a community centre.

At the beginning of November, she made a similar trip to Belfast, using the Learjet, to attend a presentation of awards at a choral-singing event.

a trip to Donegal for a series of engagements there in June and another trip to Belfast in May of this year.

Would we really be complaining if she didn't fly to Belfast on the jet to give awards to a church choir?

No. Google maps puts the travel time between Aras an Uachtarain and Belfast City Hall at two hours. Leaving aside the fact that she has state drivers and can bypass traffic, I really think that even two hours is hardly extreme.

Wolfe Tone

She is not allowed to say anything without govt approval.

later12

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

She is not allowed to say anything without govt approval.

Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong.

The office is appalingly restricted, but this statement of opinion (which in fairness to the poster is widely held) is, wrong.

Wolfe Tone

later10 wrote: »

Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong.

The office is appalingly restricted, but this statement of opinion (which in fairness to the poster is widely held) is, wrong.

Enlighten me then.

OhNoYouDidn't

later10 wrote: »

Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong.

The office is appalingly restricted, but this statement of opinion (which in fairness to the poster is widely held) is, wrong.

She is not constitutionally allowed to comment on Government policy. At all. In any circumstances.

What exactly does the OP expect her to say?

pegasus1

She doesn't have to say anything that involves government policy...she could say that these are tough times and etc etc!!

later12

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

Enlighten me then.

I will.

She can address a message to the nation subject to the approval of the Government. However, this is a rare - no, extremely rare - event.

Most of the President's public comments come by way of public speeches to groups or meetings. Pick any of her recent comments from the media and you will see that this is the case. These do not require Government approval, nor that of the Council of State.

To say that she is not allowed to say anything without government approcal is, well, pretty daft.

OhNoYouDidn't

later10 wrote: »

I will.

She can address a message to the nation subject to the approval of the Government. However, this is a rare - no, extremely rare - event.

Most of the President's public comments come by way of public speeches to groups or meetings. Pick any of her recent comments from the media and you will see that this is the case. These do not require Government approval, nor that of the Council of State.

To say that she is not allowed to say anything without government approcal is, well, pretty daft.

But we aren't talking about 'anything'. We are talking about her specifically taking a dump on government economic policy.

There would be a constitutional crisis of biblical proportions if she did so.

The Raven.

Joeyjoejoe83 wrote: »

And if she didn't travel to these places, you'd be first complaining she didnt do enough. Save the criticism for the corrupt politicians.

Really? Whatever gave you that idea? You certainly are missing the point.

It may not be classified as 'corrupt', but it seems highly inappropriate to spend that amount of taxpayers' money when it is totally unnecessary. In fact, a 'mute' figurehead living in the lap of luxury in Áras an Uachtaráin is something this country can ill afford.

OhNoYouDidn't

The Raven. wrote: »

Really? Whatever gave you that idea? You certainly are missing the point.

It may not be classified as 'corrupt', but it seems highly inappropriate to spend that amount of taxpayers' money when it is totally unnecessary. In fact, a 'mute' figurehead living in the lap of luxury in Áras an Uachtaráin is something this country can ill afford.

What do you want her to do, get the bus?

Part of her job is getting out there and meeting people at civic events. If she stayed at home she would be accused of sitting on her salary.

heyjude

Whether the president would be allowed to speak out or not, you have to remember that Mary McAleese was the Fianna Fail candidate for the Presidency, so that would influence the credibility of anything she did say, in that she might not be seen as a neutral observer. In those circumstances, what could she say that wouldn't damage the office of the presidency? if she expressed optimism that the governments' actions were appropriate and necessary, she'd be accused of partisanship and if she said she understood the hardship that people are experiencing, then people would point out her sizeable salary, expenses and use of the Aras.

Japer

gonedrinking wrote: »

I think its obvious to most at this stage of the need to abolish the president position, we can't afford it and it provides no value for money or any other benefit to Ireland (unless you consider having diner with wanted war criminals as being beneficial to Ireland).

+1. She is a parasite.

later12

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

But we aren't talking about 'anything'. We are talking about her specifically taking a dump on government economic policy.

There would be a constitutional crisis of biblical proportions if she did so.

Of course, I'm not denying that, I was responding to this comment

Originally Posted by MUSSOLINI
She is not allowed to say anything without govt approval.

She can still comment as she has been doing on the financial crisis, public anger, frustration, joblessness and emigration as much as she wants without getting into the nitty gritty of party politics. That's all I'm saying.

Wile E. Coyote

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

What do you want her to do, get the bus?

Part of her job is getting out there and meeting people at civic events. If she stayed at home she would be accused of sitting on her salary.

We're not exactly a huge island. She has two state cars plus drivers plus support cars at her disposal. There's absolutely no need for her to use a private jet when traveling anywhere in this country.

dsmythy

Why did she leave Fianna Fáil again?

Sleepy

Is it because she's British and doesn't feel she should comment on "the Irish problem"?

The Raven.

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

What do you want her to do, get the bus?

Frankly, it wouldn't bother me if she had to travel on shanks' mare.

Part of her job is getting out there and meeting people at civic events. If she stayed at home she would be accused of sitting on her salary.

As Wile E. Coyote pointed out above, 'She has two state cars plus drivers plus support cars at her disposal. There's absolutely no need for her to use a private jet when travelling anywhere in this country.'

Of what benefit is it to this country that the President attends these relatively minor functions using such an extravagant mode of transport, at the expense of the taxpayer?

On the subject of 'muteness', I think it is timely that the role of the President of Ireland be revisited. Is it really necessary to have an expensive, voiceless figurehead, especially when the public have to endure severe austerity measures, as the country sinks into economic doom?

Japer

Sleepy wrote: »

Is it because she's British and doesn't feel she should comment on "the Irish problem"?

She and her hangers on are well able to take the irish schilling though....now and when they retire. She actually gets paid more than the British Prime minister. Maybe she has a more responsible, tougher, more dangerous job .
We are worse for putting up with her and the rest of the people who have their snouts in the trough and who we will give pensions of 4 + 5 times the average industrial wage to.

later12

dsmythy wrote: »

Why did she leave Fianna Fáil again?

Has she ever quit the party? If she did perhaps it was beacause the good people of Dublin south East had the wisdom not to elect her in the 1987 election (when Haughey was her party leader).


I thought it was quite amusing last year when Forbes Magazine named her the number 69 most powerful women in the world.

That doesn't say much for women in power, does it?

Dempo1

OMG, the queen has spoken god bless her!, She has announced she will accept the voluntary reduction in her final years salary. The nation can rejoice in only having to fork out €250,000 for her services next year whilst her hubby plays golf!

I feel so humbled, our nations coffers have been rescued.

I feel like vomiting!:mad:

i57dwun4yb1pt8

stupid parasitic bint ,
* oink oink , snuffle snuffle *

gonedrinking

If she had any shred of decency or humanity, she would volunteer to take a further pay cut of 100k, so she was only getting a "mere" 150,000 a year for doing nothing. But no, shes gonna milk this cushy little number for all its worth.

Electric Sheep

She's keeping a low profile hoping that it will go unnoticed that she is getting a large salary for bugger all.

Knight990

The President is a fairly unremarkable position in terms of power. She is, as many have already said, a figurehead who is there for mostly ceremonial roles.

The important thing to remember is that the President can only address the people with the approval of the Government, i.e.: After they've read what she plans to say and approved it.

I agree with everyone, she isn't being the leader and figure we need in these times, but it's not actually her own fault. She's tied by the regulations of her office, and thats just a fact of how the country's political system works.

mikemac

Knight990 wrote: »

The President is a fairly unremarkable position in terms of power. She is, as many have already said, a figurehead who is there for mostly ceremonial roles.

Agreed, there is little she can do. Well she can speak up and then we may have a constitutional crises

Knight990 wrote: »

She's tied by the regulations of her office, and thats just a fact of how the country's political system works.

Yes, blame the Constitution and not the President. Remember the Constitution was written in the 1930's where there were dictators in Europe. De Valera avoided this but then at the same time, the Taoiseach who has a majority under a party whip can introduce their bills and the Senate and President are limited to stop them

Is it better to have the power with a Taoiseach or maybe more power to the Senate and President?
I don't know, it's a debate for political theory forum

Cookie_Monster

Why keeping mute... hmm, let see:

She has a huge salary and expenses scheme
She has a huge free house
She is not even democratically elected to the position
She does nothing but sign a few laws into place and swan around with foreign diplomats at our expense


why ever would you want to draw attention to yourself given the above

Dempo1

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Why keeping mute... hmm, let see:

She has a huge salary and expenses scheme
She has a huge free house
She is not even democratically elected to the position
She does nothing but sign a few laws into place and swan around with foreign diplomats at our expense


why ever would you want to draw attention to yourself given the above

I am certainly no fan of the Pompus Madam but to be fair and bizzarely she was elected democratically!

Cookie_Monster

Dempo1 wrote: »

I am certainly no fan of the Pompus Madam but to be fair and bizzarely she was elected democratically!

the first time yes, the second time she was not and simply walked back in. the fact there was no election, with at least the option to voice your disatisfaction with her was totally wrong and completely undemocratic.

Dempo1

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

the first time yes, the second time she was not and simply walked back in. the fact there was no election, with at least the option to voice your disatisfaction with her was totally wrong and completely undemocratic.

Fair point but such is the Joys (not) of our electoral system, sadly Labour/FG did not have the balls to select a candidate to run against her!

Cookie_Monster

Dempo1 wrote: »

Fair point but such is the Joys (not) of our electoral system, sadly Labour/FG did not have the balls to select a candidate to run against her!

thats another issue altogether, why do political parties need to select a candidate at all

Dempo1

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

thats another issue altogether, why do political parties need to select a candidate at all

I do agree with you but unfortunately the nature of our systems dictates an independent candidate needs a ridiculous amount of "Elected" Representatives to support their intentions. Essentially its impossible for an independent citizen to get elected president let alone run a campaign which is disgraceful.

AlorStar

Guillaume wrote: »

How come the President of Ireland is not saying nothing to her people during the crisis we are facing ?

I know she only has a "symbolic" position. However, she is still the President of the Republic of Ireland.

And as a matter of fairness and above all concern toward her people she should at least make an announcement or/and reassure them. Each year the Queen of England appears on TV, above all near this time of the year. Same things in most country in Europe.

In Ireland, McAleese says nothing : do not reassure his people, do not provide any official statement to comfort them, do not appear on TV or radio or papers.

While the country is facing many troubles, the least that the President could do is to assume her responsibility and to speak to her people !

This thread seems to have gone into their early retirement on the topic of President McAleese: Why does she keep mute?

Recently I’ve found this tread where earlier I would have spoken in defense of using government jet if President McAleese flying expenses cost attributed to her state duties on the grounds that flying time could be set off against the annual government budget on defense, assuming the aircraft is a national asset and not a private lease.

To explain; flying time is allocated to pilots so as they fulfill their duty quota to log a set minimum of flying hours every month so as to keep their license in date. The cost therefore is already on the books in a budget for each aircraft, pilot and crew to maintain that’s if everything is above board and the aircraft is in use for official duties budgeted for the crews to expend as a necessary if they had no presidential duties or other government official duties to perform. In excess of this use one could extrapolate the expenses outside of those criteria as extravagant, but not so as the amount of money involved is what keeps the pilots and aircraft in service. Otherwise the amount of money might be routinely used to take aircraft into the air and fly in circuits in what’s called “circuits and bumps” which is routine when no useful purpose can be allocated to that prearranged flying schedule here then the aircraft apart from aircrew would be flying empty. That’s just a side track where the thread conclusion was left static on the chocks.

We must encourage a revolution in our thinking, to encourage thinking advantageous for the common good and not lazy selfish make believe in thinking whatever we are told is true. This trust is bread into the Irish through heavy concentration of religious to trust in higher beings. Idols of reverence and untouchable ministers must be reassessed for usefulness and to accomplish that one must first bring them down and take them to task for thorough examination of their usefulness. Aesop’s Tale the Man and the Wooden God is example where recovery can begin.

The question why does she keep mute hasn’t been answered. If the duties of the president is something I followed I would be looking at all association’s she has given her name to as patron to be interesting to see how many of these patronages have sucked on the nation’s purse and find out whether austerity measures have been implemented to deny them because I would be thinking many of these patronages are inclined to be hanging on sucking luxurious at this time when poverty is a priority. If she said I have come to meet you on the street corner where on one side her roots lie and on the other side those unprivileged she is supposed to also represent might be an interesting articulated scenario to see how she would negotiate between the first and second carriage on the bend. One could see then if the economic train is beings pushed along with the view ahead unclear or being pulled with an articulate crew knowledgeable at reading the signs ahead.

Many of the contributors to this thread have discussed some of the recent trips that President McAleese has made within the island of Ireland. I have heard some of her speeches and listened to foreign news the broadcasts from countries in Africa and recently from Russia hailing the presidential merits and most every place have made her honoree member and gave her a title to go with it and in many cases also a medal. The tone of optimism in her speeches are very high when you may be just hear one in isolation, when you have listened to a few of the speeches you might detecting her tone and words she uses comes over like as if your listing to a doctor been optimistic to relatives about a dying patients chance of recovery while the subject is in earshot of the voice.

I think the problem President McAleese has for staying useful is that her only position is geared for her make an impact at the highest level and sound cheerful and optimistic for the cultural and commercial relations between the countries to be a done deal. The Russians in particular have a great sense of humor, and enjoy a joke. You only have to ask the Americans how tough the Russian negotiate, and generally their skill in negotiating is reported to be second best but in a very short time when all tributaries merge one usually finds that in the long run the Russians have maneuvered the other side into a corner, just like they have negotiated transit facilities through Shannon Airport with huge stockpiles of fuel for contingency plans when ever needed and that’s a big deal. And another coup; right there are no US inspectors at Russian nuclear missile sites so the US now will be hard pressed to make a even deal, that’s good Russian chess maneuver.

In fairness when perestroika change was remodeling Russia, Air Lingus was contracted to help out to modernize one of the Moscow hub terminals. That was the times when Air Lingus was a prize to be had. Years ago I watched as many aircraft from multiple nations were called to takes on board cruse ship passengers rescued from a stricken vessel. Most every major national carrier were landing, refueling, loading and taking off in succession at regular intervals all day every day for three days. On every runway there is a sweet spot marked out to land and it was Air Lingus’s aircraft that touched down fairly the best landing in them three days was a national pride to behold. We knew in advance which aircraft was in circuit and due to land next. Someone called out it’s a shamrock on approach, this was for my benefit and everyone on my crew turned out to see the landing. I can tell you not a word was said. There were grim green faces turning away in silence. Later I watch the take off alone and it too was a disciplined perfect text book 707 climb into a turn towards high altitude. That’s what it means to be a great national carrier and today; http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056086446 overpriced and there’s talk about leaving the Euro to return to the Irish leath bhrogan Leprechaun leaky Punt based currency.

If you haven’t already listen to Denis Ryan http://www.irishcentral.com/news/Irishman-famous-for-You-Tube-rant-comes-forward--112174844.html and follow that up with a quick squiggy at the text from jacersagain on Dec 12, 2010, 01:57 PM EST at http://www.irishcentral.com/story/roots/ireland_calling/the-imf-could-be-good-for-ireland-111513284.html you’ll see the difference between a unctuous comedian and an degenerate loaded with the false notion that the Irish are perfect beyond criticisms, you are trying to grow too fast, … to big for your britches, … too fast a growth can be dangerous. “(Ryan is currently an investment banker in Halifax Nova Scotia.
He left from Ireland to Canada in the 1960s and became a well known musician and key member of Ryan’s Fancy, an Irish folk trio that was very successful in Canada in the 1970s and 1980s. Last summer he a sang for Queen Elizabeth II and Prince Philip during their royal visit to Nova Scotia.The now famous interview took place on a street in downtown Halifax just a few weeks ago.Ryan —who is named only as an Irishman in the banking business, launches an extraordinary tirade against bankers and politicians in Ireland. -- The man who conducted the interview is Tony Quinn, a Canadian actor and comedian pretending to be Jason Calibri, a journalist for the fake media company the Financial News. He asked Ryan about the demise of the Celtic Tiger economy.)” Having taken the mick out of the wider world, it must be a humbling experience to be now the clown. Is that perpetual motion? http://www.therebelsyell.com/2010/12/germans-laughing-at-irish-gob****es.html copied here http://www.indymedia.ie/article/98380 and here http://www.liquida.com/blog-news/14210601/irish-government-celtic-tiger-ireland/
Latest: http://www.therebelsyell.com/2010/12/stone-around-counts-drop-o.html

Returning to the President McAleese’s topic, problem, as to why does she keep’s mute? Could it be her contact with ordinary Irish people ratio to ivory and shiny brass knobs is very low and therefore she hasn’t in her filing cabinet the words to discuss a situation with optimistic ideas because she has no center part with any useful ideas and cannot produce one because her inflexibility denies her to be a true leader. At this time is not jargon and granny optimism that the people want to hear but her idea for a new plan. A useful plan and then optimism for the country and that new plan would be useless to just blame but must be a bold plan to restructure into the foundations of the present system of government the security services, judicial system the police, prison service the medical profession and the presidential position and its inadequacies and all them things she cannot be other than being intransigent and appear deep in denial as is the ministers under her figurehead. Take a look at the pompous honors President McAleese has gained from her advice to nations abroad and not one of them is in any useful for her to apply to her own country. Yes she is mute, a dummy without script writer no less. The curtains on the last act are closing. Be sure they are pulled tight. With new structuring plan change the next stage scenery “can-can” opens with the redundant parts of the old history buried. The shamrock then once more can fly with well trained and disciplined air crew the sweet touch down controlled landing can be made and take off again with a responsible sense of national pride. That analogy is applicable to be applied throughout government nationwide. First off out with the old unaccountable and in with the new accountability and make merriment when change has taken place.

johngalway

She owes her job to Fianna Fail, that's why. Constitution, Office, and any other opposing argument put forth I don't care. This is Ireland and that's how things work here.

Dempo1

Slightly off topic but pertinent to my belief this women has far more interest in what happens up North.

Browsing through the Indo today, they featured a group photo of the mysterious council of State. Pretty predictable selection of members but then i came across a person and I am shocked.

He is one Col Harvey Bicker, former British Army army officer, former Ulster Unionist joined FF two years ago? (I assume this was to legitimize his appointment). I'm am completely baffled as to WTF this person was appointed to the council of state given the fact it deals primarily with important matters of state, being i assume the Irish Republic. I'm not in anyway undermining the peace process, cross boarder institutions but i am quite taken aback at this appointment. Perhaps someone can enlighten me or is it perhaps cronyism at the behest of Madam president?

later12

Presumably it has to do with cross border relations and pertaining legislation. No harm done in my opinion.