Pucliic Sector Functions that could be done by private sector

not yet

westtip wrote: »

One of the key issues in this whole public sector pay and service issues, for me has to be Why have we let the publc sector grow into the slumbering giant that it is.

FG and Labour are talking about cutting jobs in their thousands (they can argue about the numbers between themselves), but I assume these will all be on a voluntary redundancy basis adn redeployment being used for people in overmanned areas.

Here is a key question: Why does so much pretty basic administration have to be done in the public sector and couldn't a great deal of it be contracted out to the private sector.

Example: Passports - Do they have to be issued by the public sector passports - why not outsource this function with strict controls.

Driving licences - one of the greatest public sector job creation schemes ever.

Let's say we have 2 million driving licences issues in Ireland - they have to be renewed every ten years - thats 200,000 driving licences every year to be renewed - thats 4,000 per week - why not have this done by a private company under strict controls.

Adminstration of CAO for third level entry, Admin of Leaving Cert and Junior Cert exams.

All these are very basic administrative functions - The PS workers working in these kind of areas could be made redundant and potentially a fair portion of them could be re-recruited into the private providers employment - this would remove the on-going cost of these employees from the PS pay bill..Of course there would be the balance of the cost of the outsourcing service, but lets take the example of driving licences and the rough and ready figures I have posted up here. Its 25 euro to renew a ten year licence - could a private company do this for a profit? so the whole thing becomes self financing, do we really need to have such a piece of administration duplicated in evey county council in the country, shouldn't we have one driver licence renewal centre nationally (privatised).

Do we need to renew our licenses every 10 years?

The argument will always be - That's the way it has always been done and you can't do this for security reasons etc etc.

This of course is all poppycock smoke screening to protect a status quo which it is fairly clearly recognised by everyone needs reforming - and was agreed to be reformed under the original benchmarking and the CPA.

Anyway thoughts?

Couldn't agree more.....
and if we could get this outsourcing done by lets say...folk from outside the europen union for lets say minimum wage..no lets say 6.95 per hour, then my friend all our woes would just vanish into thin air.

not yet

I have 30 years service in the PS and have given excellent service during that time, during the boom friends of mine were saying (I wouldn't get out of bed for your pay) I earn just above avg ind wage and feel I've earned it through years of service,promotions,and hard work.....now if some knob head wants to outsource my job then go right ahead and see if they get the same service........

unit 1

Without reading through the whole thread I would make the point that when any service is changed from public to private you never end up with the same service. It is alwys different, soemtimes greatly, so it can be a bit like comparing apples and oranges.
A good example is waste collection, where private companies don't do waivers but local authorities do.

thebman

Privately run services would most likely be more cheaper to run than public services as you could change who was providing the service.

The only caveat is that the person that awards the contract must be held accountable and fired if a sniff of an incorrect awarding of a contract is performed.

That corrupt bit, that is the bit we can't do in this country at the moment. Our politicians and probably much of the higher public service would quite gladly take advantage of any power granted for maximum personal benefit instead of doing their jobs properly (not saying private sector people wouldn't either).

The problem is the way we do things state run or not TBH, the problem is its corrupt so lets solve the actual problem instead of treating a symtom. Our political system and people within it is the actual problem as it is setup in such a way that it pretty much promotes such stupidity.

Which is why when we vote, if you don't want to see us back here in 10 years, you should vote only for parties that promise political reform.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

RobbieTheRobber

donegalfella wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Thats quite a simplification you have made there, and also overall a misconception many new computer system have been brought into the public sector which have not required addiotnal payments to staff.

Valmont

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

Thats quite a simplification you have made there

Even though it has actually happened?

unit 1

donegalfella wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Just out of curiosity, when was the last time the ps went on strike over an issue like this. Some people think that most of us in the ps spend most of our working lives on strike.
In my 15 years working for a coco I've only spent 2 days on strike, one being around this time last year when many of our colleagues down south actually went to work due to the floods (papers said we all went up north shopping:rolleyes:)
In contrast if I stayed in the private sector where my trade is better yes better paid than me I think they went on strike for about 2 to 3 weeks in that same 15 year period.
TBH the public sector is so diverse that the above contention is quite frankly incorrect, and also the threat of industrial action is not the same as a strike.

RichardAnd

not yet wrote: »

I have 30 years service in the PS and have given excellent service during that time, during the boom friends of mine were saying (I wouldn't get out of bed for your pay) I earn just above avg ind wage and feel I've earned it through years of service,promotions,and hard work.....now if some knob head wants to outsource my job then go right ahead and see if they get the same service........

I joined the civil service in 2004 straight out of school as a CO in the Dept of justice. I was, at the time, told I was in a dead end job and "advised" to resign after a year or two to do construction in college as "that's where da jobz r now!". I did leave, and was told by everyone bar my grandfather that I was doing the right thing.

Thankfully, I did software engineering and not construction which landed me a job I still have. However, what gets to me is how people harp on about how great CS jobs are when they know absolutely nothing about such positions.

RobbieTheRobber

Valmont wrote: »

Even though it has actually happened?

They havent striked!

also between them they cant agree on what going, so yeah point well proven.

RTE wrote:

The Garda Press Office said the fingerprint machine had not been operating because of industrial action, and that was a matter for the union involved.

The union said its legal advice was that the civil servants concerned did not have the legal authority to take fingerprints.

ntlbell

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

Thats quite a simplification you have made there, and also overall a misconception many new computer system have been brought into the public sector which have not required addiotnal payments to staff.

what's the problem with the new biometric system they're refusing to use without a pay rise?

RobbieTheRobber

ntlbell wrote: »

what's the problem with the new biometric system they're refusing to use without a pay rise?

how the hell would i know?

I didnt design that system!

ntlbell

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

how the hell would i know?

I didnt design that system!

Sorry when someone says "it's not that simple" I assume they can explain why

keithcan

http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/1201/fingerprinting.html

imo the great thing about this news article is at the end, where it says "The delay in getting the machine operational was described as unacceptable in the Seanad". This comment presumably came from one of the giants of the upper House.

I'd just have thought that if someone was going to mention the words "unacceptable" and "Seanad" in the same sentence, it'd be more like: "the cost of the useless Seanad is unacceptable". This comment, though, will never come from one of the giants of the upper House.

mistermouse

The problem outsourcing all work from the PS to private companies is that the contract would be given to Political bedfellows.

I actually see many situations where public projects were given far too easily to profit making companies who charge an arm and a leg with little given back to the state and these companies get a monopoly.

Also they get a chance to tender then for more projects because of their strength built up on their previous work

Hospital carparks, Motorway tolls etc. are all examples of where a few companies dominate the market and can then get any contract thats going.

thebman

mistermouse wrote: »

The problem outsourcing all work from the PS to private companies is that the contract would be given to Political bedfellows.

I actually see many situations where public projects were given far too easily to profit making companies who charge an arm and a leg with little given back to the state and these companies get a monopoly.

Also they get a chance to tender then for more projects because of their strength built up on their previous work

Hospital carparks, Motorway tolls etc. are all examples of where a few companies dominate the market and can then get any contract thats going.

Yes but these are flaws in the tender system to allow for this which need to be closed off.

This happens in private companies where a CEO wants to award a contract to his mates company too even if they aren't the cheapest.

What you need to do is ensure there is accountability which is lacking at a political level in Ireland currentlyl

10belowzero

Spot on mistermouse , the private sector in Ireland , is totally in need of being sorted Big Time.If proof was needed of how efficent our private sector is, look at the road's , provided by the private sector , ( the most exspenive in the history of mankind ) -600 MILLION euro's for a one mile stretch with a bridge on it in Dublin ( built originally by grant aid public money) , 450 MILLION euro's for less than 20 mile's of dual carriageway (motorway) below in Limerick, it would have been cheaper to give every citizen a million euro's each and a donkey ,then we have Europe's biggest white elephant ,the port tunnel , 2.5 BILLION , now a tunnel from Connolly station to Huestion station 5 BILLION ,that's leaving out metro north , another 5 BILLION ,(forget about train's or dart's beyond Malahide on the north side ) .Then there was 3 BILLION for regeneration of Ballymun (that's still not finished ) and they want to replicate in Limerick (another 3 BILLION ), god you could go on forever , then we have the robbing ''service's'' sector , robbing shop's and retailer's , the bank's ,the insurance sector, the profession's ,doctor's , dentist's , solicitor's , motor trade, the trade's sector etc .
I'll give them all one thing they have in common , they have all being robbing the taxpayer's and consumer's blind for year's and laughing about it( remember the ad on tv , o'hh did you look out the window that'll be an extra 5 euro's , o'hh and you looked at a magazine , that's an extra 5 euro's ).
Recently went in to a mobile phone shop ( stupid me) , waited , like a thick , for 20 minute's to be served , ( I was looking for a hand's free kit ) - you know what's coming , when one of them decided to serve me , you know it - o'hh we don't do hand's free kit's here , did you try the hardware down the road , no i replyed , maybe I'll try the butcher's across the road.
Yes indeed the PRIVATE SECTOR in Ireland , should put it's own house in order first , before attacking or complaining about other section's of the economy - full stop.

thebman

10belowzero wrote: »

Spot on mistermouse , the private sector in Ireland , is totally in need of being sorted Big Time.If proof was needed of how efficent our private sector is, look at the road's , provided by the private sector , ( the most exspenive in the history of mankind ) -600 MILLION euro's for a one mile stretch with a bridge on it in Dublin ( built originally by grant aid public money) , 450 MILLION euro's for less than 20 mile's of dual carriageway (motorway) below in Limerick, it would have been cheaper to give every citizen a million euro's each and a donkey ,then we have Europe's biggest white elephant ,the port tunnel , 2.5 BILLION , now a tunnel from Connolly station to Huestion station 5 BILLION ,that's leaving out metro north , another 5 BILLION ,(forget about train's or dart's beyond Malahide on the north side ) .Then there was 3 BILLION for regeneration of Ballymun (that's still not finished ) and they want to replicate in Limerick (another 3 BILLION ), god you could go on forever , then we have the robbing ''service's'' sector , robbing shop's and retailer's , the bank's ,the insurance sector, the profession's ,doctor's , dentist's , solicitor's , motor trade, the trade's sector etc .
I'll give them all one thing they have in common , they have all being robbing the taxpayer's and consumer's blind for year's and laughing about it( remember the ad on tv , o'hh did you look out the window that'll be an extra 5 euro's , o'hh and you looked at a magazine , that's an extra 5 euro's ).
Recently went in to a mobile phone shop ( stupid me) , waited , like a thick , for 20 minute's to be served , ( I was looking for a hand's free kit ) - you know what's coming , when one of them decided to serve me , you know it - o'hh we don't do hand's free kit's here , did you try the hardware down the road , no i replyed , maybe I'll try the butcher's across the road.
Yes indeed the PRIVATE SECTOR in Ireland , should put it's own house in order first , before attacking or complaining about other section's of the economy - full stop.

Much of the private sector does have its act in order, you just picked a crap shop which is your choice to have poor service if you want it or you can not go back there and find a better shop.

I bought a phone about a week ago and went to my local phone shop and bought it in less than 5 minutes with my laser card and didn't have to fill in a single form or sign anything or have ID or anything.

If you go to a busy shopping centre at the busiest time of year then you shouldn't be surprised that its busy.