That Sin Fein Labour thing

rodento

Has Labour ruled out a government with SF:eek:

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/sf-swing-can-make-gilmore-taoiseach-2448838.html

Makes ya want to vote FF:D

lugha

rodento wrote: »

Has Labour ruled out a government with SF:eek:

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/sf-swing-can-make-gilmore-taoiseach-2448838.html

Makes ya want to vote FF

I wouldn't be so sure that that wasn't exactly the purpose of that article.

femur61

rodento wrote: »

Has Labour ruled out a government with SF:eek:

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/sf-swing-can-make-gilmore-taoiseach-2448838.html

Makes ya want to vote FF:D

I agree what turns me off FG is literally Enda. I agree with an awful lot of their reinvention policies but if the man is so stubborn not to heed to opinion polls for his removal is this an indication of what to expect from him. If he is capable of ignoring such a huge issue will he ignore other matters that concern the public?

hsi

It would be political suicide for any party in the South to go into power with SF.

Anyone who is voting for FG/FF/LB/GP do so with the knowledge they are not going to form a coalition with SF.

IF FG/LB did form a goverment with SF then it would be the best PR stunt ever for FF to rebuild.

SF do not offer a real alternative.

Labour + SF + 15 independents.... This is a goverment of the twilight zone. It could never survive in the real world.

gizmo555

lugha wrote: »

I wouldn't be so sure that that wasn't exactly the purpose of that article.

Maybe not to get people to vote FF, but definitely to deter them from voting Labour.

gizmo555

femur61 wrote: »

I agree what turns me off FG is literally Enda. I agree with an awful lot of their reinvention policies but if the man is so stubborn not to heed to opinion polls for his removal is this an indication of what to expect from him. If he is capable of ignoring such a huge issue will he ignore other matters that concern the public?

The last thing I want from any potential government party is policy being chopped and changed based on the results of the last opinion poll. He's right not to heed them - it's for FG as an organisation to decide if they want to replace him and it's for us to vote on whether we want him as Taoiseach.

eoinbn

lugha wrote: »

I wouldn't be so sure that that wasn't exactly the purpose of that article.

Ding ding, we have a winner. Jody Corcoran is a FF puppet and has been for years.

Maybe not to get people to vote FF, but definitely to deter them from voting Labour.

Most of the voters that have left FF won't vote FG due to civil war politics. Thus they can vote for one of the left wing parties or go back to FF.

ei.sdraob

femur61 wrote: »

I agree what turns me off FG is literally Enda. I agree with an awful lot of their reinvention policies but if the man is so stubborn not to heed to opinion polls for his removal is this an indication of what to expect from him. If he is capable of ignoring such a huge issue will he ignore other matters that concern the public?

What exactly is wrong with Enda?

its populism that got us where we are, Bertie has all the charisma and look where that led us

we need a party that will being in reform, not more populist nonsense.

danbohan

ei.sdraob wrote: »

What exactly is wrong with Enda?

its populism that got us where we are, Bertie has all the charisma and look where that led us

we need a party that will being in reform, not more populist nonsense.

enda's bigest problem is that he is not from dublin so he does not appeal to the intelligentsia there , you should know that we need a dublin taoiseach to get us out of this mess after all it was a dublin one got us into it!

i have not much time for him myself but any man that wants to be leader of this country for next 4 or 5 years is either very brave or very stupid or maybe both, either way i dont envy him the job

Sunnyisland

rodento wrote: »

Has Labour ruled out a government with SF:eek:

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/sf-swing-can-make-gilmore-taoiseach-2448838.html

Makes ya want to vote FF:D

Labour have ruled out going into a shared government with sinn fein as they said they want a stable government and not a coalition of small left wing parties,heard this on marian finaciun just now.

patsman07

"THE spectre of a Labour and Sinn Fein-led government, with the support of independent socialist TDs, is now uncomfortably close to reality, according to the latest analysis of voting intentions."

How, oh how is that paragraph in a news story and not in the opinion section of the newspaper?

Sunnyisland

patsman 07 wrote: »

"THE spectre of a Labour and Sinn Fein-led government, with the support of independent socialist TDs, is now uncomfortably close to reality, according to the latest analysis of voting intentions."

How, oh how is that paragraph in a news story and not in the opinion section of the newspaper?

Good question as in my opinion ,labour would certainly do a deal with the shiners to get into government.

irishh_bob

ei.sdraob wrote: »

What exactly is wrong with Enda?

its populism that got us where we are, Bertie has all the charisma and look where that led us

we need a party that will being in reform, not more populist nonsense.

ive always found enda to by quite populist and terminally centrist

irishh_bob

patsman07 wrote: »

"THE spectre of a Labour and Sinn Fein-led government, with the support of independent socialist TDs, is now uncomfortably close to reality, according to the latest analysis of voting intentions."

How, oh how is that paragraph in a news story and not in the opinion section of the newspaper?

thier is no chance of a labour - sinn fein - far left goverment , none of the above have any real presence outside dublin and i include labour , sinn fein are not a force anywhere bar dundalk , the entire county of monaghan and disadvantaged parts of dublin and the loony left are not a force anywhere bar indymedia

it will be a fine gael - labour coaltion with a huge majority and that is scary enough

The Volt

Labour's biggest qualm with Sinn Fein remains their stance on Europe. Sinn Fein are Euro-skeptic and Labour recognise the importance of working with the EU.

Monty Burnz

femur61 wrote: »

I agree what turns me off FG is literally Enda. I agree with an awful lot of their reinvention policies but if the man is so stubborn not to heed to opinion polls for his removal is this an indication of what to expect from him. If he is capable of ignoring such a huge issue will he ignore other matters that concern the public?

I don't care if the leader has no charisma - I just care if he's competent and honest. Bertie Ahern has great charisma - how did you enjoy his leadership?

Bottle_of_Smoke

Didnt realise Gilmore ruled out government with Sinn Fein - When did that happen?

The Volt

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »

Didnt realise Gilmore ruled out government with Sinn Fein - When did that happen?

Late Late Show a few weeks back.

Dirk Gently

what ever about SF and Lab going in together its far less likely that the socialist TD's mentioned would go near labour.

Anyone who doubts that Lab / FG will deal with SF if they need them is also sadly mistaken. If Labour and FG dont have the numbers SF will be asked to form a government with them.

I wouldn't rule out any combo, but lab + sf + socialists is the least likely outcome, behind even FF + any of the other parties.

Bottle_of_Smoke

Voltwad wrote: »

Late Late Show a few weeks back.

just watched that. I dont think that was a firm 'ruling out' - could definitely weaseled out of if labour had far superior numbers in the dail

The Volt

I'd be worried that if Lab and SF team up it would force in a disgusting prospect of FF and FG.

Bottle_of_Smoke

clown bag wrote: »

what ever about SF and Lab going in together its far less likely that the socialist TD's mentioned would go near labour.

Anyone who doubts that Lab / FG will deal with SF if they need them is also sadly mistaken. If Labour and FG dont have the numbers SF will be asked to form a government with them.

I wouldn't rule out any combo, but lab + sf + socialists is the least likely outcome, behind even FF + any of the other parties.

I don't think FG would go in with Sinn Fein and vice versa. Political suicide for both

Dirk Gently

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »

I don't think FG would go in with Sinn Fein and vice versa. Political suicide for both

If its the only way either of them can get into government I wouldn't rule it out.
If a rainbow needs to be formed everyone will be talking to everyone else despite how they feel about each other.

charlemont

Id be delighted to see them together in government..:cool:

Nehaxak

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »

I don't think FG would go in with Sinn Fein and vice versa. Political suicide for both

I don't agree. In these what could be historical times, positions may need to be changed and past deep rooted mistrusts and contempts put to one side (I'm simplifying here, I know damn well how deep divisions go).
I think SF have the politicians strong enough and willing enough to bring forward such an option, negotiate and build trust with FG if absolutely needed - it's just whether FG have as big a set of balls on them to do the same if required - I don't think Enda is strong enough a leader to even contemplate such thinking but I could be proven wrong for sure.

My own thinking in regards Labour/SF coming together or more to the point, why they haven't seriously contemplated such in the past, is more to do with their candidates fighting more or less for votes from the same people. They're both generally left or centre left parties, on a simple political compass test they'd probably both end up around the Nelson Mandela point.
I would think personally myself that a Labour/SF coalition (if both could get enough votes) would perform better as a government for Ireland than a Labour/FG or FG/SF government.
I however don't think any option to include independents will be a runner with any coalition government as I think we're all sick of single politicians sometimes holding a country to ransom because their own locality needs a pothole filled or whatever other such nonsense they put forward.

ei.sdraob

irishh_bob wrote: »

ive always found enda to by quite populist and terminally centrist

My point was that

we should be voting for people/parties based on their stated policies FG are promising some reform and we need it, badly

not on a personality contest, look where that led us before

Bottle_of_Smoke

Nehaxak wrote: »

I don't agree. In these what could be historical times, positions may need to be changed and past deep rooted mistrusts and contempts put to one side (I'm simplifying here, I know damn well how deep divisions go).
I think SF have the politicians strong enough and willing enough to bring forward such an option, negotiate and build trust with FG if absolutely needed - it's just whether FG have as big a set of balls on them to do the same if required - I don't think Enda is strong enough a leader to even contemplate such thinking but I could be proven wrong for sure.

On the point of Sinn Fein accepting FG - SF are on shakier ground than you think. 12 years since the GFA and they are no closer to a united Ireland - They'd risk alienating republicans in the north going in with FG. Parties like Eirigi are growing and I've heard Republican Sinn Fein are getting increased membership too. Would they risk another split in the party to have a small hand in a FG led government? I don't think that would be wise if I were a SF supporter.

For FG - I cannot forsee voting results leading to SF being required to form a government. They could just go in with Labour instead.

dsmythy

The end to boom and bust. The beginning of the long slow painful decline in it's place.

irishh_bob

ei.sdraob wrote: »

My point was that

we should be voting for people/parties based on their stated policies FG are promising some reform and we need it, badly

not on a personality contest, look where that led us before

it is due to kennys personality that fine gael are not going to achieve an overall majority at the coming election , such a feat should have been entireley possible but the party hadnt the wit to realise that kenny was what holds them back with the swing vote

OhNoYouDidn't

Voltwad wrote: »

Labour's biggest qualm with Sinn Fein remains their stance on Europe. Sinn Fein are Euro-skeptic and Labour recognise the importance of working with the EU.

My hole it is. Labour and the Workers Party were viciously anti-Provo for the duration of the troubles. There would be Labour members of cabinet the Provos tried to kill.

rodento

All I know is that if labour and SF strike a deal, I'll move all my cash overseas, as I can only see a run on the banks:eek:

Kiki10

rodento wrote: »

Has Labour ruled out a government with SF:eek:

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/sf-swing-can-make-gilmore-taoiseach-2448838.html

Makes ya want to vote FF:D

Thank god it doesn't matter what way you vote, even if FF got all SFs votes they would still be less than Lab.
Face it lads Enda is going to be the next leader, and might well be an overall majority the way the sinners are trying to stick to Labour

the groutch

it all depends on the exact split of votes

lets say the split went

fg 60
labour 55
sf 20
ff 15
inds 15

labour might prefer to be the leader of a rainbow coalition, rather than the minority partner in a coalition

supersean1999

anybody who thinks sf will get 20 seats to ff 15 is crazy, is it not sf ers who were connected to the killing of a republican garda,

Kiki10

supersean1999 wrote: »

anybody who thinks sf will get 20 seats to ff 15 is crazy, is it not sf ers who were connected to the killing of a republican garda,

Ah now you'll upset all the sinners here and get banned by telling the truth, Any thread that mentioned murdered Gardí as a reason not to vote SF, have been removed.... hmmm tells you something about they way they would govern??:rolleyes:

Bottle_of_Smoke

Kiki10 wrote: »

Ah now you'll upset all the sinners here and get banned by telling the truth, Any thread that mentioned murdered Gardí as a reason not to vote SF, have been removed.... hmmm tells you something about they way they would govern??:rolleyes:

It is more that this is the politics forum and one liner rhetoric makes for bad discussion and interrupts actual discussion.

LordSutch

realies wrote: »

Good question as in my opinion ,labour would certainly do a deal with the shiners to get into government.

And lose my vote & many other votes in the process, personally I wouldn't touch SF with a dirty stick.

Kiki10

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »

It is more that this is the politics forum and one liner rhetoric makes for bad discussion and interrupts actual discussion.

I like discussions with 2 sides

PomBear

Voltwad wrote: »

Late Late Show a few weeks back.

No he didn't. He said he disliked their economic policy and didn't think it'd work.

he talks coalitions @6.20

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvTtm4KK4hM

Dannyboy83

I'm gonna keep this simple, If we get a left wing or a Lab/SF government - the people who pay the bills will not be around to care and Ireland will be closer to Pyongyang than Boston or Berlin

OhNoYouDidn't

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

I'm gonna keep this simple, If we get a left wing or a Lab/SF government - the people who pay the bills will not be around to care and Ireland will be closer to Pyongyang than Boston or Berlin

Because the Irish right did such a fantastic job?

Spare us the reds under the bed scaremongering. The Irish people want change, and its the lefts turn. They cannot under any circumstances make it worse.

Fentdog84

Sinn Fein's policies are extreme left and populist, in other words, unrealistic. I wouldnt fancy the idea of them being in govt. At the same time, they are in power sharing in the Northern assembly so if its good enough for the unionists why wouldnt it be good enough for FG/FF/Lab ?

OhNoYouDidn't

Fentdog84 wrote: »

Sinn Fein's policies are extreme left and populist, in other words, unrealistic. I wouldnt fancy the idea of them being in govt. At the same time, they are in power sharing in the Northern assembly so if its good enough for the unionists why wouldnt it be good enough for FG/FF/Lab ?

And what extreme left wing measures have they brought in in the 6 counties?

Fentdog84

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

And what extreme left wing measures have they brought in in the 6 counties?

I didnt say they had.

OhNoYouDidn't

Fentdog84 wrote: »

I didnt say they had.

Yet you state that they would bring in extreme left wing policies down south....

Dannyboy83

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

Because the Irish right did such a fantastic job?

I've no idea - they haven't had a shot in a while.
No right wing government would have allowed government spending to become so lavish.
Income of 31, expenditure of 51 - that's not right ideology.

Spare us the reds under the bed scaremongering. The Irish people want change, and its the lefts turn. They cannot under any circumstances make it worse.

eh? Left's turn?
Do you mean it's the right's turn?

Social welfare rates doubled from 99 to 09.
Budget 2000: €96.50
Budget 2001: €106.66 (+10.5%)
Budget 2002: €118.80 (+11.3%)
Budget 2003: €124.80 (+5%)
Budget 2004: €134.80 (+8%)
Budget 2005: €148.80 (+10.3%)
Budget 2006: €165.80 (+11.4%)
Budget 2007: €185.80 (+12%)
Budget 2008: €197.80 (+6.4%)
Budget 2009: €204.80 (+3.5%) .

This doesn't look very right to me, looks distinctly left in fact.

Public sector pay grew from €7 billion in '99 to €19.8 billion in 2009.

That ain't right.

Our state sector expenditure is the product of left thinking.
Our budget deficit is the product of a mess of right thinking (low tax) and left thinking (crazy expenditure).

There is nothing wrong with low taxes once your spending is under control.
Crazy expenditure is never good tho.

I'm not interested in scaremongering.
The antedote to sunburn is not more sunburn, the antedote to leftness is not uber leftness.

Fentdog84

No thats not exactly what i stated. I simply said that their policies are far left wing, more left than labour, whatever you want to call it. heres the proof...

Sinn Féin urged a "No" vote in the referendum held in Ireland on 12 June 2008 on the Lisbon Treaty.[73]
URL="http://www.boards.ie/w/index.php?title=Sinn_F%C3%A9in&action=edit&section=11"][COLOR=#0645ad]edit[/COLOR][/URL Social and cultural

Sinn Féin's main political goal is a united Ireland. Other key policies from their most recent election manifesto are listed below:

• The 18 Northern Ireland MPs that sit in the Parliament of the United Kingdom to be allowed to sit in the Dáil Éireann as full Deputies as well,[74]
• Ending academic selection within the education system,[75]
• Support for a 'Minister for Children',
• Diplomatic pressure to close Sellafield nuclear reprocessing plant (in Britain),
• Sinn Féin proposes a draft Irish Language Bill for the North (Northern Ireland),[76]I][URL="http://www.boards.ie/wiki/Wikipedia:Link_rot"][COLOR=#0645ad]dead link[/COLOR][/URL][/I a Bill that would give the Irish Language the same status that the Welsh language has in Wales
• 'Plastic bag levy' to be extended to Northern Ireland,
• To further Irish language teaching in Northern Ireland,

URL="http://www.boards.ie/w/index.php?title=Sinn_F%C3%A9in&action=edit&section=12"][COLOR=#0645ad]edit[/COLOR][/URL Economic policy

• An 'All-Ireland-Health-Service' akin to the National Health Service in the United Kingdom,
• Free breast screening (to check for breast cancer) of all women over forty - presumably in both Northern Ireland and the Republic,
• Aiding the case for equal pay,
• An end to 'mass-deportation' of asylum seekers across the whole of Ireland,
• Oppose all water charges,
• Establishment of a government fund to aid small and medium enterprises,
• An 'all-Ireland' economy with a common currency and one tax policy,
• Greater investment for those who are disabled,

URL="http://www.boards.ie/w/index.php?title=Sinn_F%C3%A9in&action=edit&section=13"][COLOR=#0645ad]edit[/COLOR][/URL International relations

Sinn Féin supports the creation of a 'Minister for Europe' - likely to be used in the Dáil. Support of secessionism in the Basque County from the Kingdom of Spain. Opposition to the US blockade of Cuba.[77] Sinn Féin are opposed to what they term "the illegal occupation of Palestine by Israel."

OhNoYouDidn't

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

I've no idea - they haven't had a shot in a while.
No right wing government would have allowed government spending to become so lavish.
Income of 31, expenditure of 51 - that's not right ideology.



eh? Left's turn?
Do you mean it's the right's turn?

This doesn't look very right to me, looks distinctly left in fact.


That ain't right.

Our state sector expenditure is the product of left thinking.
Our budget deficit is the product of a mess of right thinking (low tax) and left thinking (crazy expenditure).

There is nothing wrong with low taxes once your spending is under control.
Crazy expenditure is never good tho.

I'm not interested in scaremongering.
The antedote to sunburn is not more sunburn, the antedote to leftness is not uber leftness.

As discussed on another thread. We have 10 years of FF, PD and Green government, implementing all the pro business policies in the world, and when it goes tits up, they were actually left wing all along.

Its beyond pathetic. The idea that government spending is the preserve of the left is laughable.

FF are a centre right party. Thats what THEY define themselves as. They also had the PD's with them for most of the last 10 years, the most right wing party ever to get into the Dail. But it was all socialism. Its infantile stuff.

ger664

irishh_bob wrote: »

thier is no chance of a labour - sinn fein - far left goverment , none of the above have any real presence outside dublin and i include labour , sinn fein are not a force anywhere bar dundalk , the entire county of monaghan and disadvantaged parts of dublin and the loony left are not a force anywhere bar indymedia

it will be a fine gael - labour coaltion with a huge majority and that is scary enough

Same was said in 92 about LAB/FF and 07 with FF/Greens. When politicians want ministerial positions and pensions they will sleep with anyone to achieve their objective.

Dannyboy83

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

As discussed on another thread. We have 10 years of FF, PD and Green government, implementing all the pro business policies in the world, and when it goes tits up, they were actually left wing all along.

The pro business policies haven't got tits up.
It's still one of our greatest assets and one of the few accomplishments of the last decade and works really well with our 12.5% CTR :

http://www.ronanlyons.com/2010/11/09/the-importance-of-ease-of-doing-business-for-economic-recovery-evidence-from-1200-new-jobs/

Number of procedures required to set up a business, various countries, 2007 and 2011

Its beyond pathetic. The idea that government spending is the preserve of the left is laughable.

LOL, are you claiming that a 100% social welfare increase in a decade and tripling of the public sector expenditure over a decade are right wing policies?

FF are a centre right party. Thats what THEY define themselves as.

God knows, Fianna Fail are whatever the occasion suits, they're the Jeet Kune Do of Irish politics:pac:- an ideology which specifically relies on having no fixed ideology.

They also had the PD's with them for most of the last 10 years, the most right wing party ever to get into the Dail.

Yep, and this is heavily reflected in the post I made above, regarding our low taxation.

But it was all socialism. Its infantile stuff.

No, you're making a fundamental mistake here.

The current crisis we are in is composed of two parts.
A) Right wing thinking on Taxation
Left wing thinking on expenditure
It could never possibly have succeeded.

The problem now is that the income is gone, but the expenditure remains.
In order to get out of this mess, we need a centre-right or right government who will primarily cut expenditure and try to reform the tax base.
There is simply no other option. (assuming we don't find an oil field that is)

OhNoYouDidn't

There is another option.

A radical change from the cronyism of FF who have destroyed our economy with their nexus of developers and bankers, culminating in prioritising the bondholders in a failed property lending bank over the citizens of the country.

That appears to be coming from the political left. FF and their right wing policies have failed. Here comes another political tradition to try and fix it

In relation to your above stats, the increase in spending from FF cannot be attributed to left wing policy. It was fiscal suicide of a right wing party pandering to various lobby groups.