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Men should be banned from getting paternity tests

2

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 11,331 ✭✭✭✭bronte


    It might be right, but it's not a right. If a man wants a woman to have a paternity test in Ireland, she must agree to it.

    Curiously enough, if a married couple have a kid, it is assumed in law that the father is always the husband.

    That is ridiculous. In the interests of fairness, nobody should have to pay maintenance unless they are in no doubt the child is theirs.
    If that requires a test, so be it.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,944 ✭✭✭✭Links234


    There's a good 4-letter word to describe this woman.

    "Feminists" have supported all kinds of bat$hit ideas, like 10% of the population should be male, all intercourse is rape, all women should be lesbians, etc.

    But as far as I know, no feminists have come out and said anything like yer one here. Or have they? That's what I'm trying to figure out.

    those aren't feminists, they're lunatics. the whole "all intercourse is rape" mentality is about as misogynistic as anything, it's an incredibly stupid thing to devalue the seriousness of what is a truly horrendous crime. it's deeply insulting and insensitive to people who have been raped. but there's a particular type of nutcase who is predominantly white middle class, very privileged, out of touch with the real world and loves to find things to upset about. so she finds a Germaine Greer book, and off it goes!

    I'm a feminist, and I think that kind of Valerie Solanas lunacy is downright anti feminist and anti woman. calling that kinda stuff feminism is insulting. they're not feminists at all, they're just nuts.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,379 ✭✭✭Sticky_Fingers


    I don't think so.

    However, if a father wants to carry out a paternity test to establish legal paternity in order that it would stand up in Court, then all three parties (mother, father, child) would need to be tested, so again, the mother would have to agree to this test.

    Where someone refuses to give a sample, the court can draw whatever conclusions it thinks proper from the refusal. For example, if the alleged father refused to give a sample, the court may take the view that he was afraid the tests would indicate he was the father. If the mother refused to give a sample, the court may take the view she was afraid the test may provide the named man was not the father.
    Problem with that though is that the Irish legal system is so backwards and pro-mammy they will no doubt give her the benefit of the doubt and still make the man pay.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,944 ✭✭✭✭Links234


    see, looking up the author of that article Melanie McDonagh, I came across this article:

    I'm with Jordan on Breastfeeding
    "I don’t care what people say; you don’t have to breast-feed. I don’t want a baby drinking from me.”

    It was at this point that I felt something like awe for the woman.

    3 paragraphs in, she's in awe of Jordan's selfishness.

    and her ending argument is this...
    No one ever tells you in prenatal classes that breast-feeding can be interminable. You can spend all day and half the night at it, half an hour at a time. Try combining that with a return to work. It can be painful. It can alter the shape of your breasts for the worse. Does that matter? Yes, it does.

    The real reason why women take to the bottle is that they have decided that, although breast may be best, formula is good enough. You get more sleep and you get your life back quicker. Jordan plainly prefers to keep her breasts for other purposes than feeding the baby — well, she’s only doing what lots of other women do, but don’t say.

    more interested in herself and her inconvenience than her child

    privileged selfishness tbh

    I don't really disagree with a woman not breastfeeding, it's up to them as a parent, but holding up someone like Jordan as worthy of awe? and the whole point she makes about how quickly she can get back to work? the rationale behind this decision not to breastfeed, that's just self-interest rather than a responsible decision.

    which explains the kinda crap she's on about in the first article, and nonsense like "DNA tests are an anti-feminist appliance of science" :rolleyes:


  • Registered Users Posts: 43,263 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    It might be right, but it's not a right. If a man wants a woman to have a paternity test in Ireland, she must agree to it.

    Curiously enough, if a married couple have a kid, it is assumed in law that the father is always the husband.

    Odd, to say the least.

    Yep, a child of a married couple is considered automatically to be "his". Can cause bother as it needs a declaration from the husband disowning paternity.

    AFAIK, you are right on the paternity test but a judge is free to infer denial of paternity by a refusal. Same as a man refusing a paternity test.

    The question becomes "why are you refusing the test?"

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



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  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 90,374 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    Women should be allowed to ban men from getting a paternity test, but only if they agree to not ask for any maintenance.

    Back in 1984 there was a flood which destroyed all the records since 1966. The records were the pinprick of blood taken from every baby born in this state. So there exists the possibility of doing a DNA test on everyone in the state born since 1984.

    If there is a legal case involving paternity then DNA should be used.


  • Registered Users Posts: 455 ✭✭cc-offe


    As a woman I find her view shocking, I think it is one of the cruelest things that someone can do to someone else if a woman lets a man raise a child as his own if she thinks there is a possibility that it's not his,

    If she thinks there is a chance he might not be the dad then they should get a dna test and it is up to him whether he can cope with knowing that the child has a different father, if he chooses to stay around then i'm sure he will love the child as if it were his own blood.

    I wonder does Melanie McDonagh have a husband and what he thinks of it all?


  • Registered Users Posts: 485 ✭✭ninjasurfer1


    Women should be allowed to ban men from getting a paternity test, but only if they agree to not ask for any maintenance.

    But what about women who want nothing to do with the real father?(eg.married woman having an affair). Surely he shouldn't be denied proof of paternity and subsequent involvement in the child's life just because she doesn't want money or anything else from him?




  • What if the father has a hereditary condition? Damned selfish and dangerous trading your child's health and happiness for convenience. It's vital that, if it's possible, a person knows the truth of who his genetic parents are. Whether they are his "real" parents (in the sense of love, raising, being a family unit etc.) is a different matter.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,886 ✭✭✭Darlughda


    This woman is an abhorrent creature for writing such vile claptrap.

    She is the epitome of anti-feminism.

    To think she would represent the views of women is like thinking the pope is a good example of contemporary male masculinity.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,312 ✭✭✭AskMyChocolate


    I have a mate whose sister had a black baby. As both she and her husband are white and so are both of their parents this could easily have led to the breakdown of their marriage had it not been for the availability of DNA testing. She insisted the baby was his and insisted on having a DNA test which duly proved he was indeed the father. She was adopted and there was obviously black blood in her birt parents' genes. Untypical case of course but shows the definite advantages of DNA testing.


  • Registered Users Posts: 24,454 ✭✭✭✭Cookie_Monster


    Something like 1 out of 30 fathers in the UK are raising a kid they think is their own.

    I would think a lot more than 1 in 30 think the kid is theirs ;)


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,798 ✭✭✭goose2005


    Women should be allowed to ban men from getting a paternity test, but only if they agree to not ask for any maintenance.

    What? So they should be allowed to unilaterally exclude the father from the child's life if they feel like it?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 447 ✭✭AntiMatter


    I have a mate whose sister had a black baby. As both she and her husband are white and so are both of their parents this could easily have led to the breakdown of their marriage had it not been for the availability of DNA testing. She insisted the baby was his and insisted on having a DNA test which duly proved he was indeed the father. She was adopted and there was obviously black blood in her birt parents' genes. Untypical case of course but shows the definite advantages of DNA testing.

    This story also proves the old adage; 'it don't matter if you're black or white'.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,879 ✭✭✭Coriolanus


    AntiMatter wrote: »
    This story also proves the old adage; 'it don't matter if you're black or white'.
    I think that was a Michael Jackson song. :P:pac:


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,770 ✭✭✭Bottle_of_Smoke


    Links234 wrote: »
    see, looking up the author of that article Melanie McDonagh, I came across this article:

    I'm with Jordan on Breastfeeding



    3 paragraphs in, she's in awe of Jordan's selfishness.

    and her ending argument is this...



    more interested in herself and her inconvenience than her child

    privileged selfishness tbh

    I don't really disagree with a woman not breastfeeding, it's up to them as a parent, but holding up someone like Jordan as worthy of awe? and the whole point she makes about how quickly she can get back to work? the rationale behind this decision not to breastfeed, that's just self-interest rather than a responsible decision.

    which explains the kinda crap she's on about in the first article, and nonsense like "DNA tests are an anti-feminist appliance of science" :rolleyes:

    That 'in awe' bit was tongue in cheek.

    Obviously I think she's nuts about dna tests but she's bang on the money here:
    The real reason why women take to the bottle is that they have decided that, although breast may be best, formula is good enough. You get more sleep and you get your life back quicker. Jordan plainly prefers to keep her breasts for other purposes than feeding the baby — well, she’s only doing what lots of other women do, but don’t say.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,164 ✭✭✭hobochris


    Not only is she bigoted in her article but she is also lazy, here is the same man hating **** written for the Times:
    http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/guest_contributors/article6814885.ece



    Perhaps she could collaborate with Alison o'riordan and write an article about how paternity tests trap young middle class women into overpriced apartments because they cannot trap a man into raising a kid that is not his..


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,595 ✭✭✭bonerm


    They should be mandatory.


  • Registered Users Posts: 127 ✭✭andrew cross


    lol, sex. What's it all about?
    im not sure slasher, do you have to take off your clothes??????????:D


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,595 ✭✭✭bonerm


    im not sure slasher, do you have to take off your clothes??????????:D

    Nah, just your gloves.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 12,378 ✭✭✭✭Sardonicat


    I have never heard of Melanie McDonagh before.Out of interest, does she describe herself a as a feminist? The OP describes her as a "catholic apologist". Catholicism and feminism don't really mix too well. Judging from her article, she seems to think it's still 1864, seeing as she believes women require the "power" of being the only one to truly know the idenitiy of their child's father. IMO, she is a **** stirrer ala Myers, and should just be ignored. Her opinion in this instance is an insult to anyone with the tiniest modicum of intelligence, male or female.

    Of course a man should have the right to check the paternity of a child being claimed as his, for 100s of excellent reasons. The days of women having this trump card (if indeed, that is what it was) are long over. Thankfully, it is no longer finacially or socially necessary to require a man to marry and support you should you become pregnant outside of marraige. Women who have extra marital affairs that result in pregnancy are not thrown out onto the side of the road and shunned by society. The "choice" to lie was never a trump card. It didn't reperesent a woman's strength, but rather, her vulnerable position in society. The need to lie is gone and I doubt that any feminist, or anyone at all living in the real world, would want to see things going back to the days of laundries and social ostracism.

    In this day and age, a woman lying about the paternity of her child deserves little sympathy form anyone. It harms the man she is duping, it harms the real father and most importantly, it harms her child. No mitigating circumstances exist anymore to forgive this lie.


  • Registered Users Posts: 437 ✭✭MonkeyBalls


    I have a mate whose sister had a black baby. As both she and her husband are white and so are both of their parents this could easily have led to the breakdown of their marriage had it not been for the availability of DNA testing. She insisted the baby was his and insisted on having a DNA test which duly proved he was indeed the father. She was adopted and there was obviously black blood in her birt parents' genes. Untypical case of course but shows the definite advantages of DNA testing.

    Very interesting. Sounds like the plot of The Human Stain.
    I would think a lot more than 1 in 30 think the kid is theirs ;)

    D'oh!
    Sardonicat wrote: »
    I have never heard of Melanie McDonagh before.Out of interest, does she describe herself a as a feminist?

    I don't think she calls herself a feminist. I can't find much info on her - I think she's a conservative with a catholic bent (a cherry picking catholic of course).
    Darlughda wrote: »
    To think she would represent the views of women is like thinking the pope is a good example of contemporary male masculinity.

    Off topic, but the pope's name is an anagram for "epic bent pedo". Damning. The evidence against him is strong.


  • Posts: 5,121 Gunner Prickly Manure


    It is illegal in France afaik - I read an article about suspicious French fathers risking prosecution by sending DNA samples to labs in Ireland and Switzerland.

    I think the gist of the law is: Who the mother is is always certain - who the father is is never certain.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,770 ✭✭✭Bottle_of_Smoke


    pg633 wrote: »
    It is illegal in France afaik - I read an article about suspicious French fathers risking prosecution by sending DNA samples to labs in Ireland and Switzerland.

    I think the gist of the law is: Who the mother is is always certain - who the father is is never certain.

    To me that is just as insane as the oft criticised Sharia Law of the middle east


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,185 ✭✭✭tatabubbly


    I don't understand why DNA testing is not done automatically when paternity/maintenance cases come up.. At least for both parties it is impartial and guarantees you won't be screwed over


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 17,919 ✭✭✭✭orourkeda


    Someone get Jeremy Kyle on the phone.

    He may need to think about a career change


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,540 ✭✭✭Giselle


    cc-offe wrote: »
    I think it is one of the cruelest things that someone can do to someone else if a woman lets a man raise a child as his own if she thinks there is a possibility that it's not his

    I agree with that, but its also disgustingly cruel to deny her own child the knowledge of who his/her biological father is.


  • Registered Users Posts: 970 ✭✭✭lemansky


    If anybody is in doubt over the ins and outs of the legalities surrounding these tests, all questions to Kevin Webster.....


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,660 ✭✭✭Blitzkrieger


    Never been in a relevant situation myself *touch wood* but I know a surprising number of guys who have, if the percentage is actually as low as 4-5%. I know a guy who was married for twenty years and was raising three kids with his wife. After discovering he was shooting blanks he did a paternity test....

    IMO, if I had any doubt, it would poison my relationship with the child's mother. Knowing the child wasn't mine wouldn't necessarily mean that I would leave, but the uncertainty would kill me. Dealing with the relationship consequences of asking for a paternity test would be a lot easier than dealing with the lack of trust.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 81,224 ✭✭✭✭biko


    The author of the piece linked does at no point say
    Men should be banned from getting paternity tests
    I've removed title quotation marks as it seems OP is using them to impose something on the author that was not said.


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