Which is better in snow / ice. FWD or RWD?

Run_to_da_hills

From a traction and control point of view which would you find the easiiest to drive in these conditions?

pajero12

Front wheel drive of course

MarkoC

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

From a traction and control point of view which would you find the easiiest to drive in these conditions?

1. AWD
2. FWD
3. RWD

pajo1981

FWD by a mile.

corktina

wrong wheel drive is better (grudgingly):rolleyes:

Cunning Alias

You have to ask that? Seriously?

Im starting to realize why there are so many terrible drivers in this weather.

kev91

rwd is more fun but fwd is beter as you have the added weight of the engine of the front wheels for extra traction

MarkoC

kev91 wrote: »

rwd is more fun but fwd is beter as you have the added weight of the engine of the front wheels for extra traction

On ice theres more fun with FWD as the handbrake does the job and fwd pulls you out from anywhere but thats all IF you have winter tyres, rwd is so useless in these weather conditions, so please dont mix drifting and winter driving here

benj

FWD or RWD if you like to reverse everywhere

Nissan doctor

Leaving out 4wd/awd, then there is no question that fwd is better.

But in relation to traction control, depending on the system your car has its fine once you are moving but once you get into seriously icy conditions or hills etc then switching off the traction control is the best way to keep going....only if you have a clue how to drive in the conditions of course.

Run_to_da_hills

kev91 wrote: »

rwd is more fun but fwd is beter as you have the added weight of the engine of the front wheels for extra traction

I drive a RWD transit van although haven't taken it out in the weather yet.

Can put weight in the back. Had FWD newer version last year.

Seweryn

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

From a traction and control point of view which would you find the easiiest to drive in these conditions?

For me is the RWD.

biko

Poll?

FWD imo

MarkoC

Seweryn wrote: »

For me is the RWD.

Because thats your first car ever ?

Seweryn

MarkoC wrote: »

Because thats your first car ever ?

Yes, I have had about 15 cars and all of them were RWD. The recent ones are not as good in the snow as my first car, which was my VW Beetle. I was driving a Beetle for 12 years and it was the best single axle driven winter car. In any slopes all other cars used to get stuck (especially FWD) and the Beetle was happily going forward. Never had winter tyres on .

Ghost Train

Nissan doctor wrote: »

Leaving out 4wd/awd, then there is no question that fwd is better.

But in relation to traction control, depending on the system your car has its fine once you are moving but once you get into seriously icy conditions or hills etc then switching off the traction control is the best way to keep going....only if you have a clue how to drive in the conditions of course.

would question the turning off of traction control, I'd say only turn it off if you're stuck or need to spin the wheels for some reason

but will depend on the car and system it uses

dr.fuzzenstein

Seweryn wrote: »

Yes, I have had about 15 cars and all of them were RWD. The recent ones are not as good in the snow as my first car, which was my VW Beetle. I was driving a Beetle for 12 years and it was the best single axle driven winter car. In any slopes all other cars used to get stuck (especially FWD) and the Beetle was happily going forward. Never had winter tyres on .

Actually you're right there.
Rear-engined and RWD go together well because the weight is over the driven wheels, Beetles really are good in the snow.
Beemers and Mercs should only be taken out on snow and ice with spare underwear in the glovebox.
My Focus gets up the hill we live on quite happily with no problems.
The GF's MX5 (RWD) is completely lost on the same hill, it really is terrible.
So, FWD or, if it has to be RWD then old Beetle, new one is FWD anyway
But best Subaru or on a budget some Suzuki 4WD.

Run_to_da_hills

Seweryn wrote: »

Yes, I have had about 15 cars and all of them were RWD. The recent ones are not as good in the snow as my first car, which was my VW Beetle. I was driving a Beetle for 12 years and it was the best single axle driven winter car. In any slopes all other cars used to get stuck (especially FWD) and the Beetle was happily going forward. Never had winter tyres on .

I cant wait to get my 58 VW bus on the road.

Seweryn

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

Actually you're right there.
Rear-engined and RWD go together well because the weight is over the driven wheels, Beetles really are good in the snow.

Yeah, the Beetle is unbeatable in the winter. The grip is right there when you need it most - driving up the hill all the traction moves to your driven axle. And the car is light, which also helps. The only thing you need to keep in mind is not to let it go sideways too far, be careful when the car starts spinning. It oversteers easily and you need to be prepared .
Mercs and BMWs are quite useless, you are right there (I have been driving both) and the Subaru is in a different league, but it is a 4WD...

-Corkie-

Poll fail..

No Skoda or Atari jaguar..:P

Cookie_Monster

all the artic trucks are proving it mid wheel drive that's the business at the moment. :P

peasant

Seweryn wrote: »

Yeah, the Beetle is unbeatable in the winter. - driving up the hill all the traction moves to your driven axle..

Driving down the hill, lift off the gas and your back end overtakes you

Run_to_da_hills

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

all the artic trucks are proving it mid wheel drive that's the business at the moment. :P

They would need there in those artic conditions.

Seweryn

peasant wrote: »

Driving down the hill, lift off the gas and your back end overtakes you

That is the downside, but the car is easy to control. You just need to get a bit of experience with it, that's all .

MarkoC

Seweryn wrote: »

Yes, I have had about 15 cars and all of them were RWD. The recent ones are not as good in the snow as my first car, which was my VW Beetle. I was driving a Beetle for 12 years and it was the best single axle driven winter car. In any slopes all other cars used to get stuck (especially FWD) and the Beetle was happily going forward. Never had winter tyres on .

In that case your vote doesnt count as you had no experiences with FWD cars ... Simplish
Trust me, you will be amazed once you get one for the winter

Seweryn

MarkoC wrote: »

In that case your vote doesnt count as you had no experiences with FWD cars ... Simplish
Trust me, you will be amazed once you get one for the winter

I didn't own one, but I drove some FWD cars and most of them are better than the RWD cars I drive now. However, they are not better than the Beetle. If I have a car to choose to drive through the snow (single axle driven), I would stll take the Beetle.

corktina

peasant wrote: »

Driving down the hill, lift off the gas and your back end overtakes you

all things being equal if you lift off the car will continue in a straight line...

jaffa20

RWD in reverse!

peasant

corktina wrote: »

all things being equal if you lift off the car will continue in a straight line...

Not downhill on ice it won't. Slightly different level of grip, camber of the road, something will cause it to swing it's arse out

Slick50

corktina wrote: »

all things being equal if you lift off the car will continue in a straight line...

But all things are not equal in the beetle because the engine is in the back. While this does help with the weight being over the drive wheels, I think the beetle's first gear had a very low ratio, which also help in these conditions.

Nissan doctor

Tyres have alot to do with it too, and i don't mean snow tyres etc.

Skinny tyres are vastly better on snow and ice then wide tyres.


And about switching off traction control, Most traction control systems cut power when the wheels begin to slip, this of course slows the car down, meaning that's its much harder to keep momentum, especially on hills. Switching it off means you can can use the spinning wheels to keep the car at a constant speed(with proper throttle and steering control) and so keep momentum.

alias no.9

I was ****ting myself last year with my RWD auto with no traction control. I coped just fine and I'm doing just fine this year too. I even got out and helped push an Almera on a hill yesterday, got back in and negotiated the same hill with relative ease. A little bit of understanding of what's happening at the wheels is much more useful than fwd vs rwd.

Nissan doctor

alias no.9 wrote: »

A little bit of understanding of what's happening at the wheels is much more useful than fwd vs rwd.

Agree 100%, if you are relying on electronic aids to keep you on the road then you should probably stay at home!:rolleyes:

partyatmygaff

Quattro or failing that FWD

af_thefragile

So glad to be driving a fwd! Was following a BMW 320i today and most of the time it was going sideways!!

I can really feel where the grip is through my chassis. I like how I responsive my chassis is in these conditions. I can hear and feel any wheel spin through the diff and the chassis. I can also feel the kickback from the abs through my break pedal if I break hard. All help me keep off the trees! It's pretty fun. And the fwd keep me going in the direction I want to go!!

I'ld love a 4x4 to be able to go through the more severely hit roads. But fwd is pretty fun and safe as well.

Would hate to be in a rwd though!!

adamshred

I've driven both in these conditions and FWD is obviously better but I haven't had any problems with RWD either, in fact the only problems I've had is getting out of my parking spot as the road is at a filthy tilt, but once your on the road, yer grand :cool:

I usually try not to get the car into sticky situations e.g stopping on a hill etc

ottostreet

I think I preferred RWD. Had a low powered RWD last year compared to a lower powered FWD this year, and tbh, I'm more nervous in the FWD. The RWD was all over the place nearly all the time, but I found it very predictable and easy to control. FWD I'm just not quite as at ease with, even though I know it's giving me less scares than a RWD.

DubTony

Try a 2 and a half litre Bemmer automatic for a laugh. If you can get the f*cking thing away from the kerb. :mad:

edit: The bus I got today was surprisingly good in the icy conditions. :rolleyes:

partyatmygaff

DubTony wrote: »

Try a 2 and a half litre Bemmer automatic for a laugh. If you can get the f*cking thing away from the kerb. :mad:

edit: The bus I got today was surprisingly good in the icy conditions. :rolleyes:

Weighing a few tonnes, having wide wheels and an exceptionally high torque diesel engine generally helps with traction.

tomED

DubTony wrote: »

Try a 2 and a half litre Bemmer automatic for a laugh. If you can get the f*cking thing away from the kerb. :mad:

edit: The bus I got today was surprisingly good in the icy conditions. :rolleyes:

Yeah yer damn right - being automatic doesn't help either...

The arse of my car has spun 3 times out of nowhere going less than 10 miles an hour... terrible car in ice/snow... best to just get the bus I say! Less of a danger to other road users!

dylbert

My Altezza hasn't let me down in this weather, LSD, traction control off and a bit of extra weight in the boot, the BMW I had last year was scary.

tomED

dylbert wrote: »

the BMW I had last year was scary.

Anyone see the picture of the smashed car on front of the mirror today??

3 gangster trying to escape the Gardai, but they didn't get very far. Nope hit a tree in their 5 series BMW after losing control in the icy conditions.

It was very insensitive of me I know since two people were killed, but I was reading where it said "garda technical investigators are trying to establish why the car left the road".

I was thinking I should ring them and tell them to take a close look at the car they were driving when the accident happened, that would probably save them a lot of time.

SouperComputer

Assuming all the same mass and tyres etc, the answer is "whichever one has the most weight over its driven wheels"

"Skinny" tyres make no difference. The contact patch size is controlled by tyre pressure and circumference. Change the width of the tyre and keep the pressure and circumference the same, its the shape of the contact patch that changes, not the area.

RWD with some added ballast in the rear is as good as any FWD, if not better as there is a (admittedly) small load transfer to the rear as you acelerate. At the end of the day though I think people miss the point and are overly concerned with getting moving, and in most cases thats not really a problem. Its the slowing down and stopping you need to be concerned about, thats almost entirely down to your tyres. AWD, FWD and RWD, within reason their braking capability is about the same. Three most important things in snow/ice: Tyres, tyres and tyres!

peasant

In the simple physics of driving, it is the front wheels that determine direction and the rear wheels that keep that direction stable.

In the difficult conditions of severely traction reduced winter driving, these principles stay the same ...the rears keep you on track ...until they loose traction that is.

With driven rear wheels the risk of loosing traction at the rears is higher than with FWD ...so the RWD is inherently more instable in winter driving conditions. All the extra directional stability at the undriven front wheels is no good to you when the arse of the car slides on its own merry way.

Especially the unskilled driver has a better chance of controlling an instable FWD. Being able to turn the sliding wheels as well as decouple them (via the clutch) or accelerate them gives more potential options for re-gaining control than driven rears that can not be turned ...one more extra option, if you like.

An unskilled driver can make a total mess of both RWD or FWD in equal measure though as the available options are rarely exploited

Vic_08

SouperComputer wrote: »

Assuming all the same mass and tyres etc, the answer is "whichever one has the most weight over its driven wheels"

"Skinny" tyres make no difference. The contact patch size is controlled by tyre pressure and circumference. Change the width of the tyre and keep the pressure and circumference the same, its the shape of the contact patch that changes, not the area.

The shape of the contact patch will have an effect on how much directional control you have particularly on snow, narrower tyres will give more resistance to lateral movement allowing better turning ability.

smokie2008

A Rear Wheel Drive pushes you into trouble..
A Front wheel drive drags you out of trouble.

neilthefunkeone

Have had no problems in my RWD in the recent snowy conditions but saying that i do feel more confident in a FWD at the moment!!!

BostonB

I expect another advantage a beetle has is that its lighter (I'm guessing) than a modern car. So less traction is need to move/stop less weight.

Some RWD are almost 50:50 weight distribution. So thats perhaps why some aren't haven't the problems that others are having.

Theres loads of independent tests/vids on the web showing that electronic aids perform better on than off, even with an skilled driver. Isn't that the point of them? Personally I haven't noticed a difference on or off but then the car I have with all the aids has summer tyres and is quite heavy compared to our other car without aids. So its more weight and tyres making the real difference for me.

I'll be getting decent all season tyres next time, though, not summers.

windsurfer99ie

peasant wrote: »

In the simple physics of driving, it is the front wheels that determine direction and the rear wheels that keep that direction stable.

In the difficult conditions of severely traction reduced winter driving, these principles stay the same ...the rears keep you on track ...until they loose traction that is.

With driven rear wheels the risk of loosing traction at the rears is higher than with FWD ...so the RWD is inherently more instable in winter driving conditions. All the extra directional stability at the undriven front wheels is no good to you when the arse of the car slides on its own merry way.

Especially the unskilled driver has a better chance of controlling an instable FWD. Being able to turn the sliding wheels as well as decouple them (via the clutch) or accelerate them gives more potential options for re-gaining control than driven rears that can not be turned ...one more extra option, if you like.

An unskilled driver can make a total mess of both RWD or FWD in equal measure though as the available options are rarely exploited

I have a RWD estate, and since adding a little weight to the boot, I find it drives very well in these conditions. The weight distribution in a FWD car is generally about 60/40 and with steering and drive through the same axle some drivers are clearly finding FWD cars very difficult to control.

My RWD estate is about 50/50 , and although it struggles for traction in places, for anything other than straight line driving, it is very easy to control.

To drive in a straight line up an icy hill I'd rather FWD for better grip. For downhill and cornering I think RWD is safer. I agree that driver skill is a major factor.

BostonB

windsurfer99ie wrote: »

.... some drivers are clearly finding FWD cars very difficult to control...

In generally they reckon FWD is easier for most people than RWD.

rickyjb

I recently changed cars and the narrower tyres I had on my Almera were def better for grip than the wider tubeless tyres I have now... Especially when it comes to taking off from an incline or deepish snow.

Both FWD drive cars by the way