Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Wikileaks - Leaked report on Shannon

  • 01-12-2010 11:50PM
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,775 ✭✭✭


    http://cablegate.wikileaks.org/201012011944/cable/2006/09/06DUBLIN1020.html

    http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/1201/wikileaks.html
    Reference ID Created Released Classification Origin
    06DUBLIN1020 2006-09-05 14:02 2010-11-30 16:04 CONFIDENTIAL Embassy Dublin

    VZCZCXRO1309
    RR RUEHAG
    DE RUEHDL #1020/01 2481445
    ZNY CCCCC ZZH
    R 051445Z SEP 06
    FM AMEMBASSY DUBLIN
    TO RUEHC/SECSTATE WASHDC 7414
    INFO RUCNMEM/EU MEMBER STATES
    RUEHGB/AMEMBASSY BAGHDAD 0043
    RHEFDIA/DIA WASHINGTON DC
    RUEKJCS/JOINT STAFF WASHDC
    RUEKJCS/SECDEF WASHDC
    RHEHNSC/NSC WASHDC
    RUEHBS/USEU BRUSSELS
    RHCUAAA/HQ AMC TACC SCOTT AFB IL

    C O N F I D E N T I A L SECTION 01 OF 03 DUBLIN 001020

    SIPDIS

    SIPDIS

    E.O. 12958: DECL: 01/31/2015
    TAGS: MARR MOPS PREL EAIR PTER EI
    SUBJECT: EMERGING CONSTRAINTS ON U.S. MILITARY TRANSITS AT
    SHANNON

    REF: A. DUBLIN 891

    ¶B. DUBLIN 709
    ¶C. USDAO DUBLIN EI U-0011-06

    Classified By: Ambassador James C. Kenny; Reasons 1.4 (B) and (D).

    ¶1. (C) This is an action request. Please see para 10.

    ¶2. (C) Summary: Although supportive of continued U.S.
    military transits at Shannon Airport, the Irish Government
    has informally begun to place constraints on U.S. operations
    at the facility, mainly in response to public sensitivities
    over U.S. actions in the Middle East. Shannon remains a key
    transit point for U.S. troops and materiel bound for theaters
    in the global war on terror, while yielding diplomatic
    benefits for the Irish Government and significant revenues
    for the airport and regional economy. Segments of the Irish
    public, however, see the airport as a symbol of Irish
    complicity in perceived U.S. wrongdoing in the Gulf/Middle
    East and in regard to extraordinary renditions, a view that
    underpinned a recent jury decision to acquit the "Shannon
    Five" protesters who damaged a U.S. naval aircraft. The
    Irish Government has repeatedly defended U.S. interests in
    the face of public criticism, but has recently introduced
    more cumbersome notification requirements for
    equipment-related transits in the wake of the Lebanon
    conflict. These requirements, which entail a more expansive
    interpretation of munitions of war, are designed to give the
    Irish Government mor latitude to decide on allowable
    transits, accoring to a senior Department of Foreign Affairs
    oficial. We suspect that the Government aims with tese new
    constraints to dampen public criticism ahead of the 2007
    general elections, and we would apreciate Department
    gudance on a USG response, including on any next steps
    regarding the Shannon Five. End summary.

    Shannon: Significant Benefits and Sensitivities
    --

    ¶3. (SBU) U.S. military access to Shannon Airport in western
    Ireland is among the most tangible benefits of traditionally
    strong U.S.-Irish relations. For the United States,
    geography makes Shannon a key transit point for military
    flights and military contract flights carrying personnel and
    materiel to Iraq and the Middle East/Gulf theater in the
    global war on terror, as well as to Europe and Africa. In
    2005, roughly 340,000 U.S. troops passed through Shannon on
    nearly 2,500 contract carrier flights; about 450
    equipment-related/distinguished-visitor transit milair
    flights and thousands of airspace overflights also took
    place. Approximately 220,000 troops have transited to date
    this year. For Ireland, U.S. military transits not only
    demonstrate bilateral cooperation in support of U.S.
    objectives in the Gulf/Middle East, but also generate
    significant revenue for Shannon Airport and the regional
    economy. In 2005, the airport turned a euro 2.9 million
    profit after earning roughly euro 10.3 million from services
    for transit flights, including landing, parking, catering,
    and fuel. The economic gains for the Shannon area are less
    easily calculated, but would include, at a minimum, payments
    for hotels, food/beverages, transportation, and cultural
    activities that come with 8-10 overnight stops per year for
    roughly 200 soldiers each time. (Revenues may fall in 2006,
    as World Airways, a DOD-contract carrier, has begun to
    transfer operations from Shannon to its Leipzig hub for
    internal logistical reasons.)

    ¶4. (SBU) For segments of the Irish public, however, the
    visibility of U.S. troops at Shannon has made the airport a
    symbol of Irish complicity in perceived U.S. wrongdoing in
    the Gulf/Middle East. This popular sentiment was manifest in
    the July 25 jury decision to acquit the "Shannon Five," a
    group of anti-war protesters who damaged a U.S. naval
    aircraft at the airport in 2003 in the belief that they would
    prevent loss of life in Iraq (ref A). Members of the Shannon
    Five have subsequently called for a mass demonstration in
    Dublin on September 23 (capitalizing on publicity for the
    September 21-24 Ryder Cup tournament and the return of
    university students) as part of a campaign to "demilitarize"
    the airport. Although it is by no means clear that any
    protest will reach "mass" proportions, participation in the
    planned protest will likely draw from a vocal anti-war lobby
    that has demonstrated against U.S. use of Shannon from the
    start of the Iraq War up through the recent Lebanon conflict.

    DUBLIN 00001020 002 OF 003


    In late 2005/early 2006, EU-wide debate on extraordinary
    renditions similarly galvanized this lobby, and the Irish
    public generally, to question U.S. military access to the
    airport.

    The Irish Government and Shannon

    ¶5. (C) The Irish Government consistently has acted to ensure
    continued U.S. military transits at Shannon in the face of
    public criticism. Since the Shannon Five decision, for
    example, Irish authorities have upgraded airport security,
    doubling the number of police and military personnel
    patrolling the facility and introducing rigorous checks at
    the parking lot and perimeter fence. (The upgrade is also
    partly a response to possible Islamic extremist threats.)
    Moreover, despite a general Government reluctance to
    challenge independent court decisions, Defense Minister
    Willie O'Dea and governing Fianna Fail party politicians have
    publicly questioned the legal merits of the Shannon Five jury
    decision. These public statements track with representations
    to the Irish Parliament by Government ministers over recent
    years and months in defense of U.S. practices at Shannon,
    including by Foreign Minister Dermot Ahern, who cited U.S.
    assurances on renditions this past year to rebuff calls for
    random aircraft checks. In parliamentary debate this spring,
    Minister of State for Europe, Noel Treacy, dismissed renewed
    calls for random inspections following the transit of a U.S.
    military prisoner that occurred without prior notification to
    the Irish Government (ref B).

    ¶6. (C) Notwithstanding its general support for U.S.
    interests, the Irish Government has more recently begun to
    place limits on certain forms of U.S. transits at Shannon.
    On August 15, the Irish Department of Transport informally
    advised Post by e-mail that all military equipment, including
    HMMWVs and trucks, were to be considered "munitions of war,"
    requiring prior notification to the Transport Department and
    exemption waivers for transshipment. In addition to
    diplomatic clearance requests for state aircraft, we have
    heretofore provided notification for troop transits (with
    accompanying weapons), hazmat, and actual weapons/munitions,
    but not non-lethal military articles. The Transport
    Department notice followed upon the Department of Foreign
    Affairs (DFA) oral but definitive decision during the Lebanon
    conflict to forbid U.S. military transits carrying munitions
    to Israel, a policy that DFA did not convey to Post before
    informing the media. Indications of this trend to constrain
    U.S. operations at Shannon first arose in the context of the
    extraordinary renditions issue. In late 2005, for instance,
    the DFA informally denied a DHS deportation transit through
    Shannon of convicted foreign nationals from the United States
    out of apparent concern that the public would misread the
    transit as a rendition.

    ¶7. (C) In an August 30 meeting with the DCM and emboff, DFA
    Political Director Rory Montgomery said that the Department
    of Transport's more encompassing approach to munitions of war
    and notification requirements reflected the Irish
    Government's interest in knowing the full scope of military
    materiel transiting Ireland. He recalled that the February
    shipment through Shannon of U.S. Apache helicopters to/from
    Israel, which the U.S. contract carrier had not listed as
    munitions of war, elicited parliamentary criticism and
    highlighted the need for clarity about the nature of materiel
    in transit (ref C). More expansive notification requirements
    that would apply to all countries would "make it easier" for
    the Irish Government to decide on allowable shipments, while
    remaining predisposed to respond quickly and positively to
    U.S. transit requests, said Montgomery. He added that the
    DFA would recommend that the Department of Transport consult
    with Post in the process of clarifying and publishing
    guidance on munitions of war. The DCM noted Post's intention
    to confer with the Transport Department, and he emphasized
    that broader notification requirements would make it more
    cumbersome to process materiel shipments, with the
    possibility that U.S. military planners would consider
    alternatives to Shannon as a transit hub.

    Comment and Action Request

    ¶8. (C) Comment: Irish sensitivities generally about foreign
    military usage of the airport often make any inadvertent

    DUBLIN 00001020 003 OF 003


    breaches of Ireland's restrictive rules on foreign military
    transits more visible and problematic. A neutral country,
    Ireland has no military attache system, no SOFA for U.S.
    activities, and strict rules regarding weapons transits and
    the wearing of foreign military uniforms. Occasional and
    inadvertent breaches of weapons and uniform policies, like
    "failure" to notify transiting prisoners (ref B) and military
    equipment, are met with public and press scrutiny, but also
    with Government understanding. Any incident, however, that
    becomes the cause for a public debate about the U.S. use of
    Shannon will likely add pressure on the Government. Embassy
    has sought to manage the policy issues, notification
    requirements, and the coordination of transiting flights,
    overflights, refuelings, crew rest overnights, and equipment
    failure overnights with existing DAO and civilian Embassy
    resources on the ground. With the help of extra TDY support
    to the DAO office and a TDY EUCOM presence at Shannon airport
    (which is three-and-a-half hours from Dublin), we have
    managed the occasional problems adequately and well.

    ¶9. (C) More comment: We intend to engage other ranking DFA,
    Transport, and Irish Defense Department officials, upon their
    return from the August holiday period, on the reasons for new
    constraints at Shannon, particularly the novel interpretation
    of munitions of war and its application to other countries
    (Russian transits to Venezuela, for instance). The Irish
    public's overwhelming opposition to Israeli military actions
    in Lebanon has exacerbated the governing Fianna Fail party's
    sensitivity to public criticism ahead of Ireland's May 2007
    general elections. The major opposition party, Fine Gael,
    supports continued U.S. military use of Shannon, but the
    Labour Party and the Green Party, Fine Gael's opposition
    partners, favor a review, if not reversal, of Irish policy on
    U.S. transits. Against this political backdrop, U.S.
    missteps at Shannon could easily become campaign grist, a
    Fianna Fail concern that mid-level DFA officials have cited
    in informal discussions with Post. Compliance with the new
    rules (entailing notification for almost any U.S. military
    equipment transiting), if feasible from the U.S. logistical
    perspective, will require a higher order of coordination
    among TRANSCOM, Air Mobility Command, TACC, and the contract
    carriers.

    ¶10. (C) Action request: We would appreciate input from the
    Department and other USG agencies for our planned follow-on
    discussions with Irish officials on Shannon. Embassy will
    diplomatically pursue the most workable arrangements possible
    with Irish officials, but we would appreciate Washington's
    judgment as to whether the process of notification of almost
    everything of a military nature (including by contract
    carriers) through Shannon is becoming too difficult to make
    the airport a preferred transit stop. Guidance is also
    requested regarding the Shannon Five decision, an outcome
    that DFA Political Director Montgomery described as "bizarre"
    and presumably not precedential. Our understanding is that
    the case, as a criminal matter, has run its course, as there
    is no possibility to appeal a jury decision under Irish law.
    There may be an option to pursue the case as a civil matter,
    and Post would need authorization and funding to contact
    local attorneys about this possibility. Another option would
    be to present an itemized bill for aircraft damages to the
    Irish Government, either to seek compensation outright or, at
    least, to convey USG dissatisfaction with the Shannon Five
    verdict.
    KENNY


«1

Comments

  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    LOL
    You haven't heard the one then about Sarkosy attacking the Russian Forigne Minister then?

    WikiLeaks: furious Sarkozy ‘physically attacked Russian Foreign Minister’

    An enraged President Sarkozy physically attacked the Russian Foreign Minister during heated negotiations to end the Kremlin’s occupation of Georgia, according to a leaked diplomatic cable.

    Mr Sarkozy grabbed Sergei Lavrov by the lapels of his jacket and screamed abuse at him during a “confrontational” meeting with President Medvedev in Moscow, according to the memo.

    The report by John Beyrle, the US Ambassador in Moscow, recounted attempts by Mr Sarkozy to persuade Mr Medvedev to withdraw Russian troops after the 2008 war over South Ossetia. Philippe Lefort, a senior French diplomat, told US colleagues that the mood was “at times openly hostile”.

    Mr Beyrle added: “Sarkozy at one point grabbed FM Lavrov by the lapels and called him a liar in very strong terms, reacting to Lavrov’s denial that Russia had failed to comply with its previous withdrawal commitments.

    “Lefort said that Sarkozy had arrived with a ‘take it or leave it attitude, very American in style and confrontational’, and the Russians had responded icily.”

    Mr Sarkozy led the European Union’s mission to end the conflict because France held the EU’s rotating presidency at that time. The French told the US that the Kremlin had been openly dismissive of the head of the European Commission, José Manuel Barroso, during the tense discussions.

    “The French attributed this to the Russian view that Barroso is basically a glorified international civil servant ‘not worthy to be in the Czar’s presence’.”

    US diplomats expressed concern in a separate cable that Italy might try to prevent Nato condemning the invasion because of the close personal friendship between Silvio Berlusconi, the Italian Prime Minister, and his Russian counterpart, Vladimir Putin. A confidential report by Ronald Spogli, the US Ambassador in Rome, warned that Italy was “not likely to be helpful” if a statement from the North Atlantic Council criticised Russian actions in Georgia. It suggested that Mr Putin was using Mr Berlusconi to divide the military alliance and to block punitive actions by the EU.

    Mr Beyrle noted that Mr Putin had not attended the meeting with Mr Sarkozy in Moscow, but had been “at his toughest” in talks with Russian journalists, where he had described President Saakashvili of Georgia as “likely insane”. Mr Putin insisted that the West could not “intimidate us”.

    The conflict over Georgia’s breakaway regions of South Ossetia and Abkhazia provoked the biggest crisis in relations between Russia and the West since the Cold War. Moscow accused Mr Saakashvili of starting the war but sent bomber aircraft, tanks and thousands of troops into Georgia, to reach within 20 miles of the capital, Tbilisi.

    Mr Sarkozy brokered a ceasefire but Russia recognised the two regions as independent states and has stationed thousands of troops on their territories, which continue to be recognised internationally as part of Georgia.

    Mr Putin hit back at American diplomats yesterday for describing him and President Medvedev as the Batman and Robin of Russian politics. Mr Putin warned the United States not to interfere in Russia’s affairs after leaked diplomatic reports described his country as a “mafia state”. He called Robert Gates, the Defence Secretary, “deeply misled” for observing in one cable that “Russian democracy has disappeared and the government was an oligarchy run by the security services”.

    Mr Putin said in an interview with CNN’s Larry King Live that the Batman and Robin comparison “aimed to slander one of us” and added: “This is about our interaction, an important factor of the domestic policies in this country.”

    He also said that “our American friends” routinely told Russia not to interfere when it criticised aspects of the US presidential election system. He said: “We are not interfering. But to our colleagues, I would also like to advise you, don’t interfere either \ the sovereign choice of the Russian people.”

    Washington was warned by Mr Beyrle that it could not afford to ignore Mr Putin, despite President Obama’s efforts to build a relationship with Mr Medvedev. Mr Beryle said that Mr Putin was “still holding the reins” in deciding whether he or Mr Medvedev would run for the presidency in 2012, and would have the “final word”. He added that Putin “will continue to have a significant say in Russian affairs”.

    He illustrated his point with a Moscow joke that has Mr Medvedev sitting in the driver’s seat of a car with no steering wheel. When he asks Mr Putin where it is, Putin pulls a remote control out of his pocket and says, “I’ll be the one doing the driving”.

    The English Times today.
    http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/world/europe/article2829261.ece


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,094 ✭✭✭jd007


    Anyone wanna do a quick summary?


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    jd007 wrote: »
    Anyone wanna do a quick summary?
    Diplomatic cables leaked by Wikileaks seem to indicate that US diplomats believed that the Irish Government tried to clamp down on the use of Shannon Airport for military purposes as a political ploy ahead of the last general election.

    Thats FF for you! Any trick in the book when its convenient at the time!

    http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/1201/wikileaks.html


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,775 ✭✭✭Spacedog


    ...also WikiLeaks Under Fire After Spoilers For Next Batman Film Leaked

    ...and Julian Assange Accidently Leaks Own Secret Location


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Cable wrote:
    ..............inadvertent breaches of weapons and uniform policies, like "failure" to notify transiting prisoners (ref B) and military
    equipment, are met with public and press scrutiny

    I'd imagine the quotation marks are indicative of the situation there.

    Mind you, it does show the power of public pressure and no small degree of success on the part of those protesting Shannons use.


  • Advertisement
  • Closed Accounts Posts: 17,918 ✭✭✭✭orourkeda


    How on earth did Wikileaks obtain cables like these?

    How would they have got them without doing something illegal(e.g hacking or someone leaking classified documents)

    Something not quite right about this.

    Was Julian Assange a hacker at one point in his life.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    orourkeda wrote: »
    How on earth did Wikileaks obtain cables like these?

    How would they have got them without doing something (e.g hacking or someone leaking classified documents)

    Something not quite right about this.

    ...because all cables were kept in a database. Access to said database was available to suprisingly low ranking individuals, one of whom copied a whack of them onto a CD and gave it over to Wiki.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,871 ✭✭✭Conor108


    PFC Bradley Manning (US Army) had unrestricted access to the database for hours a day for months in a facility near Baghdad or somewhere. He copied the files onto a Lady Gaga CD and posted it to Wikileaks headquarters. He's been in jail for a good while now


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,379 ✭✭✭Sticky_Fingers


    What worries me more is the amount of spelling mistakes present in the cables. If anything like that was posted on AH the Grammar Nazis would eat them alive, they should be thankful they only have to deal with Assagne.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,009 ✭✭✭✭Run_to_da_hills


    What dose Julian Assange drive? ................


    .........A cable car. :pac:


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,871 ✭✭✭Conor108


    Speaking of Julian Assange, Interpol have put a red notice out on him for alleged sex crimes.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 17,918 ✭✭✭✭orourkeda


    Nodin wrote: »
    ...because all cables were kept in a database. Access to said database was available to suprisingly low ranking individuals, one of whom copied a whack of them onto a CD and gave it over to Wiki.

    Fair enough. I wasnt aware of that.

    It shouldnt really b e a surprise that there were so many of the documents leaked so.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    orourkeda wrote:
    Was Julian Assange a hacker at one point in his life.

    If it was due to hacking by Wiki itself, they'd have been able to shut the whole thing down as theres laws against that kind of thing.
    Conor108 wrote: »
    PFC Bradley Manning (US Army) had unrestricted access to the database for hours a day for months in a facility near Baghdad or somewhere. He copied the files onto a Lady Gaga CD and posted it to Wikileaks headquarters. He's been in jail for a good while now

    Can never remember his name....52 years he's facing.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    orourkeda wrote: »
    Fair enough. I wasnt aware of that.

    It shouldnt really b e a surprise that there were so many of the documents leaked so.

    Nope. Ye wouldn't think a relatively inexperienced young fella would be allowed near the like of it in such a way.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,871 ✭✭✭Conor108


    Nodin wrote: »
    Can never remember his name....52 years he's facing.

    Yeah and he's only 21 or 22 if I recall. He knew what he was doing though.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,284 ✭✭✭pwd


    The only thing that surprises me is how little money we've been getting for it. I thought there would have been a substantial payment somewhere. From what this says, the only money coming to us normal revenue from services.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,639 ✭✭✭PeakOutput


    so what they are saying is......what they were doing at shannon is exactly what they and the goverment told us they were doing at shannon?

    excellent the krusty protesters were wrong again


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,639 ✭✭✭PeakOutput


    pwd wrote: »
    The only thing that surprises me is how little money we've been getting for it. I thought there would have been a substantial payment somewhere. From what this says, the only money coming to us normal revenue from services.

    well why would they pay anything extra unless we asked them to? they are just flights passing through so they pay the same prices as everyone else. i think it would reflect badly on goverment (and bear with me here as this is going to sound ridicolous given the current state of affairs) if they were to accept extra money for this type of thing, it would imply our morals / beliefs / goverment decisions can be bought


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,163 ✭✭✭✭Liam Byrne


    Biggins wrote: »
    Thats FF for you! Any trick in the book when its convenient at the time!

    The true FF meaning of "we have turned a corner".......the omission of the "u" was just a typo.

    Mind you, it did - nearly - result in FF doing something that I agreed with for once.

    It almost makes it a pity that they'll be decimated at the next election; I mean, if election campaigns make them u-turn on their despicable actions, they might actually renege on NAMA & Anglo next January!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Conor108 wrote: »
    Yeah and he's only 21 or 22 if I recall. He knew what he was doing though.

    O he did, but I don't think - looking at the way he was caught - he fully realised just how deep the ****e he was getting into was going to be. He seems to have been fired up primarily by what he saw in some Iraq related documents, with regards to targeting people who were just criticising the Iraqi government.
    The only thing that surprises me is how little money we've been getting for it. I thought there would have been a substantial payment somewhere. From what this says, the only money coming to us normal revenue from services

    That was just bullshit put out for ammunition to the 'o well, we need the cash' argument.


  • Advertisement
  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,075 ✭✭✭IamtheWalrus


    What dose Julian Assange drive? ................


    .........A cable car. :pac:

    You can't be serious...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,729 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    jd007 wrote: »
    Anyone wanna do a quick summary?
    Nothing groundbreaking: Irish bureaucratic pressure is increasing the effort involved in using Shannon as a strategic logistics point. The cable is addressed to a superior in Washington from the Embassy in Dublin to inform them and request advisement on how to handle the evolving situation in Shannon (see last paragraph)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    PeakOutput wrote: »
    so what they are saying is......what they were doing at shannon is exactly what they and the goverment told us they were doing at shannon?

    excellent the krusty protesters were wrong again

    The Government told us they were renditioning people through shannon? Some people have an amazing way of missing the point. The Government denied that rendition was going on, and was caught out later on when it was shown that it in fact was. And from the cable

    ..............inadvertent breaches of weapons and uniform policies, like "failure" to notify transiting prisoners (ref B) and military
    equipment, are met with public and press scrutiny


    it looks like there was 'Don't tell, don't ask' going on with regards to that same issue. With regards to the "krusty protesters" it appears that yes, they were right that the US regarded the Shannon stop over as significant (it was put out that it wasn't and we should just shut up and take the money), that rendition was going on and that raising awareness of the issues caused sufficient public pressure for an actual shift in Government attitude.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,639 ✭✭✭PeakOutput


    Nodin wrote: »
    The Government told us they were renditioning people through shannon? Some people have an amazing way of missing the point. The Government denied that rendition was going on, and was caught out later on when it was shown that it in fact was. And from the cable



    it looks like there was 'Don't tell, don't ask' going on with regards to that same issue. With regards to the "krusty protesters" it appears that yes, they were right that the US regarded the Shannon stop over as significant (it was put out that it wasn't and we should just shut up and take the money), that rendition was going on and that raising awareness of the issues caused sufficient public pressure for an actual shift in Government attitude.

    transiting prisoners is not rendition


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,536 ✭✭✭Mark200


    Biggins wrote: »
    Thats FF for you! Any trick in the book when its convenient at the time!

    http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/1201/wikileaks.html

    It was just the opinion of the diplomats in question....

    I wouldn't even call it newsworthy


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    PeakOutput wrote: »
    transiting prisoners is not rendition

    Would the phrasing 'transitioning renditioned prisoners' meet with your approval?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 137 ✭✭Banji


    Why are they called cables?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,639 ✭✭✭PeakOutput


    Nodin wrote: »
    Would the phrasing 'transitioning renditioned prisoners' meet with your approval?

    extraordinary rendition is the extrajudicial transfer of a person from one nation to another.

    there is nothing in that document which suggests it was happening at shannon, just because they were talking about prisoners does not mean it was extraordinary rendition.

    im not saying it definitely didnt happen im just saying that this secret document does not refer to it at all and that from that document it appears we were told exactly what was happening after all, now if another document shows up that says they were illegally kidnapping terrorists and illegally transporting them to countries that use torture through shannon then fair enough


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,466 ✭✭✭Snakeblood


    orourkeda wrote: »
    How on earth did Wikileaks obtain cables like these?

    How would they have got them without doing something illegal(e.g hacking or someone leaking classified documents)

    Something not quite right about this.

    Was Julian Assange a hacker at one point in his life.

    3 million people have had access to these files.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,263 ✭✭✭Wompa1


    So far the Wikileaks have been very boring. It's like Reading my work e-mails for feck sake. It's a professional narrative tone the whole way not one reference to our pixie heads or ugly children...come on! Everything is so PC tell us what you really think!


Advertisement