What will Sinn Fein have to do to get a vote from you?

Reading this thread here, there seems to be more people than me that are very happy with the way Sinn Fein are going about things, but won't give them their no.1

Me personally, I can't/won't give them a vote due to them being so eurosceptic. I still believe in the European project and believe that we would be still clawing our way toward where we were in the 90's without Europe. The mess we find ourselves in has no more to do with Europe than a jewel thief blames a jewellry store for holding jewellry

Their fiscal policies still leave a lot to be desired.

Maybe as a junior partner in a coalition they would work. Will they even run enough candidates to make up a junior party? Will they be taking advantage of the goodwill that is coming to them as being a good opposition party?

So, to the floor, what will it take Sinn Fein to get your no.1 or 2?

Giggernaut

If they changed the party name to "The Rebel Alliance"

Blatter

I might consider voting for them if they would a)stop evolving all their policies around a united Ireland which will never happen, b)remove Gerry Adams as leader and c)stop being so short sighted with regards Europe and our involvement in the EU.

Brenireland

theyd get a vote alright/a vote of no confidence they should just delete their party wasters.:)

PomBear

Papa Smut wrote: »

Their fiscal policies still leave a lot to be desired.

by the way, i've heard alot of people say this but haven't read their pre-budget submission, seems a bit nonsensical:
http://www.sinnfein.ie/files/Pre-Budget2010_web.pdf

Tazz T

A lot more 'sensicle' that the track our present government has put us on. They have my vote.

meglome

I'd think about it if they had some decent economic policy's and they stopped the eurosceptic bull they play at. At local level I'd give them a vote now but not a chance for government now.

wolfpawnat

They have my vote.

They actually have a good pre-budget plan, it is just peoples idiotic conceptions of the party that has caused them to have less support than they deserve

yoshytoshy

If we weren't as bad off as we are ,I'd probably consider voting for sinn fein.
I don't think we're in any position to turn away help from anyone at the moment ,regardless of how proud we may be.

stop

They could start by condemning the murder of Det. Garda Jerry McCabe.

Corsendonk

Maybe if they stopped playing the persecuted victim everytime anyone asks them for a straight answer I might consider voting for them. I doubt anyway SF will have a chance in Dublin North were I am.

Joey the lips

Sinn Fein have always got a preference from me. Sometimes 1st sometimes 2nd.. Sometimes 1st knowing it would transfere to the second...


Why...Nothing to do with the 32 county aspect although i do admire Joe Cahil(Quick Google:p)

Its because of the years i spend working in youth clubs when anything i wanted done i had my local councillors support and presence where as from most others i got a letter(which came on dail paper- wonder who pays for that)

JENNYWREN19

promise to new enter an alliance/coalition with FF

JENNYWREN19

sorry that was never enter an alliance/coalition with FF

Liam Byrne

They need to stop excusing one "side" and whinging about the other; they either support human rights and justice or they don't.

They also need to have patience for 10 or 15 years so that their recent history of supporting objectionable characters and activities becomes consigned to long-term history.

Oh - and stop referring to our country/state as "26 counties".

RandomName2

stop wrote: »

They could start by condemning the murder of Det. Garda Jerry McCabe.

Or by condemning the IRA in general?

Or by condemning their members who were in the IRA?
----

People who criticise their euroskepticism are totally wrong. Not to do with any objective thing to do with europe: they are the only major party that is euroskeptic... so they can automatically pick up votes through that method (even I gave them a fifth preference in the EU election!). Besides which being pro-european would go against their entire political outlook.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Joey the lips wrote: »

Its at times like this only a facepalm will do!

You were not asked why you would not vote them you were asked what would make you vote them

I think i shall forget this one... its turning into the usual....

Yes and I answered that at the end. I would never vote for them, which means there's nothing they could do to make me vote for them. If you're not looking for discussion you're just going to get a thread full of "Nothings"

nesf

Sensible economic policies would be a start. I can never see myself voting for them though given they're on the opposite side of the centre.

Dr. Baltar

Joey the lips wrote: »

You have not understood the question. You are being asked what they would need to do.. not what you disagree with.... Dont you agree..? Your simple asnwer should be "There is nothing they can do" Then this would point out the closed mind in irish politics.

I understood the question, but granted I went on a rant instead and never answered it:

For Sinn Féin to get my vote they would have to change their economic policies massively.

My name is URL

I think they need to face up to the past and attempt to put their old stances behind them. I've voted for SF candidates in local elections in the past because frankly they were head and shoulders above the rest in terms of sincerity and willingness to listen to constituents.

I know that it'd be extremely difficult for them to move away from the euro-sceptic and somewhat separatist and socialist agendas because of their following but I believe that in time it would be better for them if they tried to.

20Cent

SF are the only party who are sticking up for Ireland.
They get my vote will defo get one in Dub South Central.

ChocolateSauce

To get my No.1 or 2, they'd have to drop all their republician ideals and become a pro-Europe party. I suppose if every one of their social and economic policies were in my ballpark I could overlook some strident Euro-scepticism, but the only party in the world that even comes close to filling those criteria are the UK Liberal Democrats.

In other words, in order for Sinn Fein to get my vote they'd have to stop being Sinn Fein. I'd still vote for them before FF though. One thing I will say is that I used to scoff at their plan to raise corperation tax, but I'd now support it.

maxwell smart

To get a vote from me they would have to convince me they have left their "baggage" behind them. And there is a hell of a lot of it.

If they could do that, they would then need to convince me they have a sound understanding of economic policies, that hard decisions have to be made and that these will impact on all sectors of society.

That would be a start.

thebaldsoprano

They're being upfront about the taxes they intend adding - fair play to them for that.

introduce a third tax rate of 48% on individual incomes in excess of three times the average industrial wage (€100,000) per annum – Raises €410 million

standardise all discretionary tax reliefs – Raises €1.1 billion

introduce an income-linked wealth tax of 1% on all assets, including property, in excess of €1 million, excluding working farmland, regardless of residency – Raises €1 billion

increase Capital gains Tax to 40% (15% increase) – Raises €240 million

increase Capital acquisitions Tax to 35% (10% increase) – Raises €96 million

increase DiRT to 30% (5% increase) – Raises €123 million

Reduce the earnings cap for pension contribution tax relief to €100,000 – Raises €85 million

increase tax on second homes to €600 and introduce a tiered tax increase on subsequent homes: e.g. €700 for third homes, €800 for fourth and fifth homes. Examine the introduction of an income-linked waiver for individuals with second homes who cannot sell them in the current climate, are struggling to meet mortgage repayments or are in financial difficulties – Potential to raise €120 million

They're not going to get my first preference because I'm not convinced that more government spending will get us out of this, but given how little other opposition parties have to offer they may get a lower preference.

DeVore

I dont think I would ever give them a vote. Not as they currently are or any conceivable alteration which didnt effectively make them a completely different party.

I think I genuinely would vote FF ahead of them. And since I would rather emigrate than vote FF, I dont think I will ever be voting SF.

DeV.

Spacedog

I would vote for them if they:

-Became commited to a right wing agenda,
-Abolished all corporation tax,
-Introduced debt based slavery for young existing minimum wage workers who refuse to emigrate,
-Moved their focus from local community politics to high cost advertising, focus group and billboard campeigns,
-Arrang for the return of Ireland to the British empire,
-Amend the constitution so that there is only a 'yes' option on all European Treaty based referenda ballot papers,
-Make English the first language of Ireland, Klingon the second, and Irish Third, what use is Irish anyway. Kaplah!
-Toll Bridges everywhere
-More taxes, charges and job cuts on already profitable, self sustaining public services which are of interest to private investors. so that we can complain about them and it looks like privitisation is a good idea. brown envelope - cha-chinggggggg!
-Transfer remaining state ownseship of land, sea, air, natural resources and wealth generating processes, to private concerns.
-Offer the under utilised Shannon Airport to be a new site for a brand new state of the art United States Torture Rendition Camp, sparing valuable jet fuel and precious testicle eletrocution time.


Basically I want them to become FF3 (FG being FF2), you know, good honest centre right policics! It's never failed us before!

redfacedbear

As Dev said, they'd have to change so much that they would no longer be Sinn Fein, but at a minimum the following;

remove the (former) Officers Commanding/Army Council members/gun runners that form the senior ranks of the party (in fact they'll probably have to be cold in the ground before I'd consider a 1 or 2 for SF).

Abandon their anti-EU policies.

Reduce the prioritisation of re-unification to a vague aspiration.

Shift their economic policies sharply to the centre and reduce the divisive anti-capitalism rhetoric

I've never given them so much as a transfer at local or national level before. This time around it's possible that I might give them my final number on the basis that they might be more preferable than FF. I haven't fully made up my mind - is the treachery that FF has perpetrated on us worse than the cancer of Sinn Fein (in all it's various guises since the civil war) anti-democratic politics? I'm back and forth on this and how I'm feeling on election day will probably determine what order I'd put the two parties in.

angelfire9

There is nothing they could ever do that would earn a vote from me
Reasons include Enniskillen, Omagh, Warrington, Adare

I would consider myself republican I theoretically would love a 32 county Ireland but I would NEVER give SF a vote
What they did was NOT in my name!

Ardennes1944

nothing. they have my vote.

zig

This will be my first time voting for them, first time even contemplating voting for them ,because the rest of the parties left me with no choice, theyre the only ones that will stand up to Europe on one of the most important issues in the Republics history. Im willing to sacrifice my disagreements with their other policies because this one is too important to ignore.

angelfire9

Edited my comment for the benefit of those who found it offensive

I do realise that SF signed up to the Good Friday agreement but I also firmly believe that they have ties with all the current versions of IRA/RIRA/PIRA that are still causing grief and havoc in the north

Perhaps when Gerry Adams ADMITS some of the atrocities committed by his friends in the name of Irish Republicanism he MAY earn some respect from me

Perhaps when the locations of this disappeared are actually revealed and families in the north have bodies to bury with the decency they deserve then SF may go up in my estimation

Perhaps when SF admit that Pearse Mc Cauley, Jeremiah Sheehy et al were actually acting on IRA orders when they killed Jerry Mc Cabe then possibly I might gain some iota of respect for the "political party" that is/was the "respectable" face of the IRA

But I can see hell freezing over first to be honest!

kaiser sauze

They could offer me tax free status for life and I still would never even consider voting for them.

Once associated with terrorists, always terrorists.

Cavehill Red

Papa Smut wrote: »

So, to the floor, what will it take Sinn Fein to get your no.1 or 2?

As a lifelong SDLP supporter, giving a preference to the Shinners would be extremely difficult for me.

But I'd be prepared to consider it if I saw some practical development of their economic plans set out here

jonnybravo

1) Some decent politicians (get rid of Gerry Adams, Mary Lou, Ferris etc etc)
2) Some decent policies (not anti Europe, anti companies)
3) Express some sort of regret / saying that it was wrong for acts such as the killing of Garda McCabe

Then I might consider voting for them or at least giving them some preferences. Until they do the above they will never have a serious prospect of getting into Irish government. I think eventually they will get around to the above. When is the question.

Firefox11

Their policies and ideology are in direct conflict with my own so never.

TheUsual

What will Sinn Féin have to do to get my vote ?

Nothing at all.
I have always voted for them.

Guys, I'm locking this thread until I gt a chance to clean it up. We're grown ups here. The question wasn't, " What do you think of Sinn Fein?" It was, "what will Sinn Fein have to do to get your vote?"

That to me is quite a simple question. They can do something, or they can do nothing.

Simples.

I'll review this thread later on today and try to let it not be such a trainwreck.

Thread reopened.

If people go off topic, they will be infracted with bans for those who keep it up after warning.

Kaiser sauze
Cavehill Red
Kiki10


You guys in particular are being warned. Off topic posting will not be tolerated.

This is not a history tread. The question is

What will Sinn Fein have to do to get a vote from you?

RandomName2

Papa Smut wrote: »

What will Sinn Fein have to do to get a vote from you?

Okay, in all seriousness what they would have to do in order to get a vote from me:

1. Remove ties to terrorists, including ejecting their members who formerly were terrorists

2. They would have to condemn terrorism.

3. They would have have to change their party name. It has ugly (and, oddly, inconsistent) connoctations.

4. They would have to come up with decent economic principles with which to work.

5. They would have to drop their dreams of reordering society based upon their pseudo-socialist model (i.e. be less hard left)

6. They would have to set up a seperate party to their current Stormont/ Westminster based entity.

7. Abandon their hatred of Western democracies (the fact that their hatred is primarily focused on the United Kingdom does not perclude them from hating other governments with... just less intensity)

8. Ideally they would also have to leave their GUE grouping in the European Parliament.
---

So, in short, they would have to be almost entirely different. Yet, there may be one or two of their members who are decent and have not been corrupted by the old hands within the party. Perhaps.

Bottle_of_Smoke

Apologise for their remarks about Brendan Hughes.
Apologise for their lack of support for Gerry McGeough.
Do something productive to reduce sectarian problems in the north.
Stop being so bitchy to the SDLP
Admit the PIRA campaign failed

jimmycrackcorm

They'd need to follow the national forum policies for my vote

irishh_bob

Papa Smut wrote: »

Reading this thread here, there seems to be more people than me that are very happy with the way Sinn Fein are going about things, but won't give them their no.1

Me personally, I can't/won't give them a vote due to them being so eurosceptic. I still believe in the European project and believe that we would be still clawing our way toward where we were in the 90's without Europe. The mess we find ourselves in has no more to do with Europe than a jewel thief blames a jewellry store for holding jewellry

Their fiscal policies still leave a lot to be desired.

Maybe as a junior partner in a coalition they would work. Will they even run enough candidates to make up a junior party? Will they be taking advantage of the goodwill that is coming to them as being a good opposition party?

So, to the floor, what will it take Sinn Fein to get your no.1 or 2?

them being euro sceptic is the one reason i could vote for them

why i couldnt vote for them is as follows

they are a top down party in an almost stalanist way , same leader since 1983
they not only shield scumbag smugglers and racketeers , they potray them as ( in the words of gerry adams ) good republicans
while in public they make calls for thier supporters to co -opperate with police investigations , the reality on the ground is very different , see the roberty mc cartney murder or the murder of a young guy from the border area three years ago
they attract a disproportionate amount of unsavoury charechthers to thier support base , thugs who cloak themselves in the tri colour or at least a celtic jersey , theese people are mostly from the border area
they are more or less economically illiterate and thier policy manifesto can be summarised in one sentence = tax the rich till the pips squeak
they are are deeply inward looking in terms of industry , culture and many other things

Agent_47

When they stop parading around with Gerry Adams looking like a war hero, when they move away from their socialist politics and actually convey a coherrent viable economic plan.
As that will never happen (too staunch) they will forever remain on the back benches of Irish politics.
In summary, no vote here

Dear Irishh bob,

It's kind of ironic that you post the OP, reply the same page as the warning, and then reply to a different question.

The question is not, "Why would you not vote for Sinn Fein"

But it's:


What will Sinn Fein have to do to get a vote from you?


Fancy trying again?

I have a feeling the answer to the OP is simply, "Nothing, I could never vote for them".
Oh, and the use of the word "scumbag" is not permitted on this forum.

Dannyboy83

Sinn Fein cannot get my vote because:

A) They're on the wrong end of the spectrum
I don't view them as a credible political party, but rather a protest party.
C) Their core concerns are trivialities to me, or even things I disagree with
D) My core concerns appear to be trivial to them
E) When it comes to politics, I adore pragmatists and detest romantics

They soak up protest votes, which are just wasted votes and this distorts the balance of power, but not very worrying as I could not imagine anyone entering coalition with them.

Again with the protest party, there are full of objections but appear devoid of alternatives.

Sinn Fein cannot get my vote.

Dear Dannyboy83,

Please read the post above yours.

All the best,

Papa.

Can'tseeme

Nothing, they already get my vote.

politicsdude

not while the likes of martin ferris spends his time taxiing murderers home from prison

feicim

Papa Smut wrote: »

Reading this thread here, there seems to be more people than me that are very happy with the way Sinn Fein are going about things, but won't give them their no.1

Me personally, I can't/won't give them a vote due to them being so eurosceptic. I still believe in the European project and believe that we would be still clawing our way toward where we were in the 90's without Europe. ....

Is this not where we are at now?

I think the jury is still out on whether or not the euro project has been good for ireland.

Sinn fein already have my vote, and the reason being they are a real alternative to FF/FG/Lab who in my opinion are all in the same old boys club happy to trot along maintaining the status quo.

RockinRolla

Why has Ireland no decent liberal or Libertarian groups....

I'm tired of all this conservative Bullsh1t.

Sand

I suppose to get a vote from me theyd need to:

1. Develop some basic morality, some recognisable sense of right and wrong. People throwing nail bombs into resteraunts full of families are not heros. If the Provos cant grasp that, theyre not going to get my vote.
2. Refer to the Irish republic, instead of undermining its legitimacy by refering to it as the "twenty six counties". A lot of the reason we have such poor civic patriotism in Ireland is down to the belief that it has been patriotic to resist and undermine the "Free State" - The provos have contributed to this and continue to do so.
3. Offer economic policies which are more than Marxism warmed over.
4. Offer some vision of Ireland thats more than:
"Take over Northern Ireland
?????
Profit!"

Until then, I'll only have to consider Sinn Fein when deciding who to place last in the list of preferences: Fianna Fail or Sinn Fein. Say what you like about Fianna Fail, they at least grasp the concept that murdering kids is wrong.