The Status Of Irish.

loldog

eddyc wrote: »

if people really cared about the language surely something would have been done a long time ago to improve its standard of teaching, instead of people supporting the language, judging by their actions people seem to be completely apathetic about it.

After 80 years they should realize that teaching it in schools has poisoned it for generations of Irish people. They would have been better to leave it alone.

If it is to be spoken, the regeneration should happen in the home. It's the only way it works.
.

DJP

Leaving aside the last couple of posts, I should have known that a thread with the title "The Status of Irish" would bring out some strange characters. Deise go deo even has the word "compulsory" spelt with a capital 'c' in his OP and the word "status" spelt with a captial 'c'. Deise go deo, you were naieve is starting such this thread. I don't even think you speak Irish do you? I am not frowning on that but you seem to be getting your comfort in relation to the Irish language on its official status on the basis of your OP anyway.

Oasis_Dublin

Monty Burnz wrote: »

By being forced to do it, I lost a lot of respect for it.

The fact that at least 90% of people in the Republic could not follow this conversation if it were in Irish should tell you all you need to know about the success of compulsory Irish.

The language was never taught so as to be spoken as the exclusive language of the Irish nation. To suggest it was is a bit silly now.

You probably had a bad, chip on the shoulder regarding Irish, teacher. As I've maintained throughout this thread, the language is being taught far from perfectly but it needs to be reformed not consigned to the scrap heap. (waits for roars of "I never said get rid of it, I only said take away compulsion."

Lord TSC

[roar]I never said get rid of it, I only said take away compulsion.[/roar]

<_<

Oasis_Dublin

It ain't going anywhere fast either way!

Lord TSC

Oasis_Dublin wrote: »

It ain't going anywhere fast either way!

Sadly, I agree.

I think the problem, as was referenced above, is that most people are just apathetic to the whole situation. You've got a minority on one side who insist it stay compulsory. You've got a minority on the other who want it made optional. Both have legit arguements. But because there's 90% in the middle who couldn't care less about the issue, no changes (either in the optionality debate or the reform debate) will be made. The only group who are all effected by it are the students and once they get out of the secondary school system, they just want to forget about Irish and be done with it

DJP

See what are we talking about now- Irish for Leaving Cert?

Deise go deo, you gave the title of this thread a naieve heading, unless of course you wanted all this off the wall debate?

KeithAFC

Oasis_Dublin wrote: »

The language was never taught so as to be spoken as the exclusive language of the Irish nation. To suggest it was is a bit silly now.

You probably had a bad, chip on the shoulder regarding Irish, teacher. As I've maintained throughout this thread, the language is being taught far from perfectly but it needs to be reformed not consigned to the scrap heap. (waits for roars of "I never said get rid of it, I only said take away compulsion."

Why does it need to be reformed? People don't need it to communicate. So its use is a bit pointless. Unless its a political thing.

Monty Burnz

Oasis_Dublin wrote: »

The language was never taught so as to be spoken as the exclusive language of the Irish nation. To suggest it was is a bit silly now.

Agree 100% - we should be taught to speak it. Maybe in teens learn to write it, and don't touch poetry etc. until university.

Oasis_Dublin wrote: »

You probably had a bad, chip on the shoulder regarding Irish, teacher. As I've maintained throughout this thread, the language is being taught far from perfectly but it needs to be reformed not consigned to the scrap heap. (waits for roars of "I never said get rid of it, I only said take away compulsion."

I never said get rid of it, I only said take away compulsion.

Monty Burnz

KeithAFC wrote: »

Why does it need to be reformed? People don't need it to communicate. So its use is a bit pointless. Unless its a political thing.

It's a cultural thing. It's a tragedy every time a language dies, especially an ancient language like Irish. In my ideal world, the country would be largely bilingual - but Irish should be a positive choice.

I'm making uneducated guesses about your background Keith, so please spank me senseless if I'm wrong, but your ancestors would probably have been speaking a Celtic language perhaps only very recently if they were Welsh, 500 years ago if they were Scots, or 1500 years ago if they were from somewhere else in Britain. It's part of your heritage too, although you have an absolute right not to learn it or care about it, and I can definitely understand the negative associations you have with it.

DJP

Monty Burnz wrote: »

I never said get rid of it, I only said take away compulsion.

For primary school and the Junior Cert?

This thread is too confusing. Thanks to a few posters we don't know if people think that it should be optional for the Leaving Cert or are extreme and think that it should not be taught for Junior Cert and primary.

KeithAFC

Monty Burnz wrote: »

It's a cultural thing. It's a tragedy every time a language dies, especially an ancient language like Irish. In my ideal world, the country would be largely bilingual - but Irish should be a positive choice.

I'm making uneducated guesses about your background Keith, so please spank me senseless if I'm wrong, but your ancestors would probably have been speaking a Celtic language perhaps only very recently if they were Welsh, 500 years ago if they were Scots, or 1500 years ago if they were from somewhere else in Britain. It's part of your heritage too, although you have an absolute right not to learn it or care about it, and I can definitely understand the negative associations you have with it.

Many languages just get dropped when they aren't needed anymore to communicate. Its an argument between culture and necessity. If over 90% of the Irish population only speak English, then what hope is there to lower that percentage below 50%?

cyclopath2001

Oasis_Dublin wrote: »

The language was never taught so as to be spoken as the exclusive language of the Irish nation. To suggest it was is a bit silly

Have you looked at the Conradh na Gaelge website? It is there in black and white as their primary aim. That is why they oppose choice.

Monty Burnz

Darren J. Prior wrote: »

For primary school and the Junior Cert?

This thread is too confusing. Thanks to a few posters we don't know if people think that it should be optional for the Leaving Cert or are extreme and think that it should not be taught for Junior Cert and primary.

Crikey man, stop moaning about the thread and start a more specific one if you like! :pac::pac::pac:

Oasis_Dublin

cyclopath2001 wrote: »

Have you looked at the Conradh na Gaelge website? It is there in black and white as their primary aim. That is why they oppose choice.

"Is main aim is to reinstate the Irish language as the common tongue of Ireland (sic)" - Common tongue, not exclusive language of the Irish nation.

DJP

cyclopath2001 wrote: »

Have you looked at the Conradh na Gaelge website? It is there in black and white as their primary aim. That is why they oppose choice.

I have had more run-ins than probably anyone with CnaG. You can call them purist I suppose, but I wouldn't call them exclusivist and I don't see the sense in your post.

DJP

Monty Burnz wrote: »

Crikey man, stop moaning about the thread and start a more specific one if you like! :pac::pac::pac:

I prefer politics.ie.

Monty Burnz

KeithAFC wrote: »

Many languages just get dropped when they aren't needed anymore to communicate. Its an argument between culture and necessity. If over 90% of the Irish population only speak English, then what hope is there to lower that percentage below 50%?

True. I don't know if it's possible to rebuild the use of the language, but I think it's a desirable goal.

Lord TSC

Darren J. Prior wrote: »

For primary school and the Junior Cert?

This thread is too confusing. Thanks to a few posters we don't know if people think that it should be optional for the Leaving Cert or are extreme and think that it should not be taught for Junior Cert and primary.

Unfortunatly, there's not just two sides being fought here. It's not that one group of people have the exact same opinions and there's another with their own. A debate like this is always going to be full of individuals, each with their own thoughts.

cyclopath2001

Oasis_Dublin wrote: »

"Is main aim is to reinstate the Irish language as the common tongue of Ireland (sic)" - Common tongue, not exclusive language of the Irish nation.

What they say is The common tongue" is targetting dominance. If multilingualism was the goal they would have said "...a common tongue in Ireland. CnaG's master plan is quite clear.

cyclopath2001

Monty Burnz wrote: »

True. I don't know if it's possible to rebuild the use of the language, but I think it's a desirable goal.

At what cost?

Lord TSC

Monty Burnz wrote: »

True. I don't know if it's possible to rebuild the use of the language, but I think it's a desirable goal.

I agree its a desirable goal but I think it should be up to the individual come LC level as to whether to focus their time on it or something more relevant to their future careers. If they want to work in some field which needs Irish, then they can continue it on. If they want to work in a field where Irish will play no role, they should be given the chance to prioritise another subject. People shouldn't be forced into doing a subject that will not relate to their future plans in the slightest.

And yes, that goes for English and Maths too...

Focalbhach

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

Unfortunatly, there's not just two sides being fought here. It's not that one group of people have the exact same opinions and there's another with their own. A debate like this is always going to be full of individuals, each with their own thoughts.

I'd regard that as a positive thing, on the whole!

Cú Giobach

Leto wrote: »

I'd regard that as a positive thing, on the whole!

Sure wouldn't life be boring if we all thought the same .

Lord TSC

Well, guess this is relevant now...

http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/1221/irish_language.html

The Taoiseach has said that he is very hopeful that there is a future for the Irish language.

Brian Cowen was speaking at the launch of the Government's 20-year strategy for the language.

He also said he hoped the language will be stronger upon the completion of the scheme.

Mr Cowen said that a 'more modern and strategic approach to the language promotion and maintenance' was needed.

Minister for the Gaeltacht Pat Carey said the initial funding for the strategy would come out of existing funds and that €1.5m had already been set aside for next year.

Fine Gael Gaeltacht Spokesperson Frank Feighan said his party fully supported the strategy.

It includes a commitment that Irish remain an obligatory subject up to Leaving Certificate level.

Previously the Fine Gael position was that Irish should only be obligatory up to Junior Certificate level.

Wonder if he spoke any Irish when making the announcement...

DJP

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

Well, guess this is relevant now...

http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/1221/irish_language.html



Wonder if he spoke any Irish when making the announcement...

I was at it. The Taoiseach launched the Strategy and answered questions as Gaeilge.

Iwasfrozen

Darren J. Prior wrote: »

I was at it. The Taoiseach launched the Strategy and answered questions as Gaeilge.

Cowen speaks Irish? Really? Wow, I have slightly more respect for him if that is true.

RTE news wrote:

It includes a commitment that Irish remain an obligatory subject up to Leaving Certificate level.

I don't like this bit though, Irish shouldn't be compulsory for grown adults.

DJP

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Cowen speaks Irish? Really? Wow, I have slightly more respect for him if that is true.

Of course it is true.

mike65

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Cowen speaks Irish? Really? Wow, I have slightly more respect for him if that is true.


I don't like this bit though, Irish shouldn't be compulsory for grown adults.

Well as you are 15/16 when starting the Leaving Cert phase adulthood hardly enters in to the matter.

Iwasfrozen

mike65 wrote: »

Well as you are 15/16 when starting the Leaving Cert phase adulthood hardly enters in to the matter.

Most people do their leaving cert as adults. So yeah, it matters.