Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Help Keep Boards Alive. Support us by going ad free today. See here: https://subscriptions.boards.ie/.
If we do not hit our goal we will be forced to close the site.
Current status: https://keepboardsalive.com/
Annual subs are best for most impact. If you are still undecided on going Ad Free - you can also donate using the Paypal Donate option. All contribution helps. Thank you.
If we do not hit our goal we will be forced to close the site.
Current status: https://keepboardsalive.com/
Annual subs are best for most impact. If you are still undecided on going Ad Free - you can also donate using the Paypal Donate option. All contribution helps. Thank you.
https://www.boards.ie/group/1878-subscribers-forum
Private Group for paid up members of Boards.ie. Join the club.
Private Group for paid up members of Boards.ie. Join the club.
What makes MA coaches qualified to teach self defence?
-
27-11-2010 06:29PM#1
Comments
-
-
-
-
-
-
Advertisement
-
-
-
-
-
-
Advertisement
-
Geoff Thompson actually uses the distraction technique as part of his Fence approach. Rather than make the guy "look the other way", it's in the form of a question asked to cause a temporary "brain freeze" in the attacker, giving you enough time to land a KO punch.
It's the very last resort though and Geoff has a whole system to de-escaltion techniques which he recommends using before engaging in any violence.
Yeh quite true, and you're right misdirection or deceptive kinesis is something than can be used on a subject that is highly likely to kick off, again understanding what to look for will improve your chances of knowing if and when a subject is going become violent and therefore enable you to use such tactics. Having said that, this type of stuff predates Geoff Thompson by 1000's of years. Sun Tzu wrote about artiface in the Art of War. Geoff however made it relevant and sexy in the 2oth century
The brain freeze you mention is probably better explained as pattern interruption which is an NLP term. It simply means engaging the brain to create an 'open state'. Again nothing mystical about this, any brain engaging question will stimulate a response. The brain is a question answering machine. An open state creates a hesitation, albeit momentary in the subjects intent which allows you an in. But you answered that spot on.0 -
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
tallaght01 wrote: »That is, presumably, very true. But what makes yomchi or me or you in any ways qualified to take money from people to tell them what will work in that situation. Btw, it wasn't yomchi's website that got me thinking about all this. The only reason I mention him is because he posted a reply.
If you're a big guy like Geoff Thomas, your experiences of talking down some hot head are very likely to be different than how mine would be if I did the same thing.
Or hitting pre-emptively....does it work? or does it make the attacker mad, and end up in worse injuries? I don't know.
I'm just wondering how most people can know what the best things are in general to do in situations that are so rare as to preclude most of us from having much experience of what works for a diverse type of people.
NLP is interesting to talk about, and the theory is nice. But, again, does it work in situations like this. NLP may or may not work in many different situations....but what about in a sexually motivated attack? A mugging? a domestic?
With the best of intentions I think you have a very skewed understanding of what is involved in general self protection training. About my qualifications and money firstly - I don't claim to know everything nor do I or any other SP instructor claim to have all the answers, i'm an instructor under Lee Morrison where I've trained for coming on 6 years now the training fits nicely into my part of my work life and a previous job and above all I really enjoy the training, I find it very useful and I like to let other people know that. What we train in are concepts and options. As for money, I charge a tenner. Ii have a course coming up for women who are friends of friends and family who asked me to run it, it will run from 11 til 4 and it will cost... a tenner.
So with that out of the way,If you're a big guy like Geoff Thomas, your experiences of talking down some hot head are very likely to be different than how mine would be if I did the same thing.
Geoff Thompson isn't not a big guy, but he had a big reputation which was a result of the mans confidence and demeanor which manifested in his intention to deal with someone, violently or not. Size has zero to do with it.
It's not about the size of the dog in the fight, it's about the size of the fight in the dog.Or hitting pre-emptively....does it work? or does it make the attacker mad, and end up in worse injuries? I don't know.
Yes absolutely both. If you've honed your BL cues and you decide there and then to hit first then you better make sure you're clinical and committed. The results are simple, it works or it doesn't. If it doesn't work well then you better have an alternative. In SP circles we train attachment and follow up except for where enough distance is created to escape, escape being the preferred option always.
There is empirical evidence available that pre-emption works, bundles of it. I'm surprised being a Kravist that you haven't covered any of this. Pre-emption has worked for me and I can guarantee you there are lads on here who have knock out punches, all they need to do is throw them. Makikomi I'm looking at youI'm just wondering how most people can know what the best things are in general to do in situations that are so rare as to preclude most of us from having much experience of what works for a diverse type of people.
Bizarre and generalistic, who are most people and what are the best things and what situations are you referring to?
Threats may be rare, but they do happen would you agree? And would you agree it's better to have a response to a threat and not need it, than to need it and not have it? Again you do train in Krav don't you? Is none of this covered?NLP is interesting to talk about, and the theory is nice. But, again, does it work in situations like this. NLP may or may not work in many different situations....but what about in a sexually motivated attack? A mugging? a domestic?
Again you're understanding of where NLP fits in to any of this is skewing your point. The only NLP made reference to in this thread was pattern interruption. This is not rocket science, mystical or secret it a very simplistic everyday occurance. For the purpose of understanding it it is given a label and a place in scheme of things. The next time you're in a conversation and your mobile rings and your conversation with the person stutters for a second - you've been pattern interrupted by a piece of plastic with no qualifications of training
If you're really interested mate in any of this please do come for a class or a chat that's a genuine offer as I know my micky is bigger than yours anyway
cheers0 -
Advertisement
-
-
-
-
Doug Cartel wrote: »Again, are these self defence techniques, or simply techniques you have labelled as self-defence? (eg, what distinguishes a "self-defence" move from the other karate moves?) How realistic are the defences of overhead club attacks and bear-hugs from the rear - does anyone actually attack this way?
I'll answer The techniques in Kenpo are like mini 2 person forms. Their purpose is to gradually introduce the use of Kenpo principles on a training partner. The techniques become more complex as the practitioner rises through the belt system. Some of the techniques are simple and probably functional if trained properly, but most are unrealistic, unnecessary, or far too complex.
Kenpo is all I'm training at the moment, and as much as I like training in the club I'm at, I often find myself asking "why don't you just hit him?" or "why not just pick him up and dump on his back?" when we're doing syllabus work.0 -
With the best of intentions I think you have a very skewed understanding of what is involved in general self protection training. About my qualifications and money firstly - I don't claim to know everything nor do I or any other SP instructor claim to have all the answers, i'm an instructor under Lee Morrison where I've trained for coming on 6 years now the training fits nicely into my part of my work life and a previous job and above all I really enjoy the training, I find it very useful and I like to let other people know that. What we train in are concepts and options. As for money, I charge a tenner. Ii have a course coming up for women who are friends of friends and family who asked me to run it, it will run from 11 til 4 and it will cost... a tenner.
So with that out of the way,
Geoff Thompson isn't not a big guy, but he had a big reputation which was a result of the mans confidence and demeanor which manifested in his intention to deal with someone, violently or not. Size has zero to do with it.
It's not about the size of the dog in the fight, it's about the size of the fight in the dog.
Yes absolutely both. If you've honed your BL cues and you decide there and then to hit first then you better make sure you're clinical and committed. The results are simple, it works or it doesn't. If it doesn't work well then you better have an alternative. In SP circles we train attachment and follow up except for where enough distance is created to escape, escape being the preferred option always.
There is empirical evidence available that pre-emption works, bundles of it. I'm surprised being a Kravist that you haven't covered any of this. Pre-emption has worked for me and I can guarantee you there are lads on here who have knock out punches, all they need to do is throw them. Makikomi I'm looking at you
Bizarre and generalistic, who are most people and what are the best things and what situations are you referring to?
Threats may be rare, but they do happen would you agree? And would you agree it's better to have a response to a threat and not need it, than to need it and not have it? Again you do train in Krav don't you? Is none of this covered?
Again you're understanding of where NLP fits in to any of this is skewing your point. The only NLP made reference to in this thread was pattern interruption. This is not rocket science, mystical or secret it a very simplistic everyday occurance. For the purpose of understanding it it is given a label and a place in scheme of things. The next time you're in a conversation and your mobile rings and your conversation with the person stutters for a second - you've been pattern interrupted by a piece of plastic with no qualifications of training
If you're really interested mate in any of this please do come for a class or a chat that's a genuine offer as I know my micky is bigger than yours anyway
cheers
I still don't get this. At all.
The money issue was specifically a general comment. You may charge a tenner or 50c or 100 euro per hour. But a transaction is taking place, in which somebody gives you something in exchange for your knowledge of self defence. So this implies the teacher knows more about the subject than the student.
I'm not sure, either, what I was "generalising" about. The point you were responding to was a simple enough one....ie that very few, if any, of us, have enough experience of the broad range of attacks on the broad range of people being taught self defence. ie is a self defence instructor familiar with the specific issues facing a tiny lady about to get sexually assaulted in her remote home, and with the carjacking victim, and the unprovoked attack on the lone male, the racially motivated attacker etc. All of these types of attackers will presumably have a different mindset, and will react differently to different stimuli than other. Same with the victims. Makikomi may be able to throw a knockout punch. But what about the middle aged lady, or the small guy facing a much more powerful attacker?
I know you say "size means zero" and "pre-emption works". But how do we know that? I spend a significant part of my life analysing and generating "empirical" evidence, and I'd be seriously impressed if the available evidence managed to take into account of all the different variables that would be present in an attack situation, and come up with any meaningful conclusions.
I work in healthcare, and have dne a lot of A+E in Johannesburg, where there's some of the highest assault rates on the planet...carjacking, robbery, gang related, sexual assault, and various combinations of the above. I've also done A+E in Glasgow, where we had the highest knife crime rates in the world at the time. I spoke to patients in detail about their attacks, but I still wouldn't regard myself as qualified to tell them how they should avoid attacks.
I do Krav. But I do it for exercise. My instructor is a better fighter than me, and we train what we learn under stress, so that's fine. I'll listen to him when it comes to fighting stuff. Sure, we look at escaping situations etc, but it's pretty much 100% about the rumble. I doubt he's any more qualified than me or you to tell rape victims how to de-escalate an erection.
So, I'm still confused. Well, if I'm being honest, I'm not as much confused as skeptical. And that's no harm. Lots of people don't like Krav or combatives or lots of other classes out there, and that's fine. I guess I just don't like some of the self defence classes that are sold to people. I'll probably just have to learn to live with it.0 -
tallaght01 wrote: »I doubt he's any more qualified than me or you to tell rape victims how to de-escalate an erection.
Now I'm confused.....
0 -
-
The point you were responding to was a simple enough one....ie that very few, if any, of us, have enough experience of the broad range of attacks on the broad range of people being taught self defence. ie is a self defence instructor familiar with the specific issues facing a tiny lady about to get sexually assaulted in her remote home, and with the carjacking victim, and the unprovoked attack on the lone male, the racially motivated attacker etc. All of these types of attackers will presumably have a different mindset, and will react differently to different stimuli than other
You are presuming incorrectly. Irregardless of what the motive is, the mindset or theintention is harm, physical harm. It matters little if the person is hit first before a sexual assault or if they are hit as part of a racially motivated assault - the intention is the same and this misunderstanding is where a lot of the KM schools of thought fall down.
Understanding the motives of any particular type of attacker is very important. Motives dictate tactics, tactics will dictate proxemics but one thing remains a constant and that is intention. As long as one is conscious and coherent they stand a chance to fight to protect themselves.
To fully understand the motives of a sexual predator well then these motives need to be researched and studied. Information is widely available, likewise the motives of a violent xenophobe or homophobe etc etc are widely available. To present a case study to a class and stimulate a debate and discussion on it is the I.D.E.A.L method of teaching a subject. You must present the student with the information on the subject before you can deal with it. Would you agree?
Debating and discussing motives allows people to understand tactics, from this, avoidance becomes very relevant. You cannot present a tactic such as awareness and avoidance without presenting case studies on predatory tactics - all of which are widely available. You could fire straight into training escapes and physical applications to a live assault but then you're only teaching people to fight off the back foot which is essentially self defence - in this case the person is already losing.
In a nut shell - understanding tactics allows you to avoid them.I know you say "size means zero" and "pre-emption works".But how do we know that?
Who's we?
Simplify things here and remove the word "pre-emption" because all that means is to be proactive and intercept (something Bruce Lee advocated back in the 1960's) - what we are intercepting with is a strike, so you could boil your question right back to - does hitting work? I don't really need to answer that one for you do i? Either way here are a few real examples for you to ponder.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAx5cLTJ3Ek&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3vBJLUQBdhQ&feature=related
And while your there, here's a few examples of those 'tiny ladies' you may have referred to, seems they've got more balls than most and they don't train either so they have no skill standing or on the deck, what they do have is pugnacious intention, a resource available to everyone in the right circumstanceshttp://nymag.com/daily/intel/2009/03/new_york_is_a_city_of_tough-as.htmlI'll listen to him when it comes to fighting stuff. Sure, we look at escaping situations etc, but it's pretty much 100% about the rumble.
So you're effectively taught how to 'rumble' without any pre conflict or post conflict modules? What about the effects of adrenalin, are these mentioned? Either with the attacker or you in mind? If not, there is a big hole in the training, but if you are only going for the exercise well then that is fine i guess.I doubt he's any more qualified than me or you to tell rape victims how to de-escalate an erection.
Apart from your comment being without tact it does show the obtuse angle you're coming from with regard to any of this subject.I still don't get this. At all.
Crap. I didn't see this bit.0 -
-
Advertisement
-
Advertisement