Jason Holland says Keith Earls should be wearing 13 instead of O'Driscoll !!

studioguest

In my opinion Earls is a good player but is not fit to lace Drico's boots yet!! He was very poor with the chance he had for a try against The Allblacks that went to the TMO... Every winger knows that if you go low you have a better chance of not been shoved out to touch, I couldn't believe he went so high. Drico would have finished it off a bit like his try against Australia in the '03 world cup...

thomond2006

Link?

wonton

http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/autumn-internationals/holland-insists-earls-should-be-wearing-ireland-no13-shirt-instead-of-orsquodriscoll-2436812.html



I do think its about time we give earls a chance at 13 , but i'd even be happy with him on the wing this sunday. I just really want to see him starting again.


I thought the article was ruined when he mentioned o gara and johne murphy.

padser

In fairness he isn't saying drop Drico to play Earls, - he is saying drop Darcy to play Earls.

Actually it's something I mentioned on these forums a few months ago, I would give serious consideration to Drico at 12.

RK, TB, KE, BOD, LF I think is our strongest backline. I also think BOD is somewhat more suited to 12 now rather than 13 - I don't think there is much of a sacrifice as long as he is at 12.

Obviously in a straight choice between BOD and Earls BOD gets the nod 110 times out of every 100.....

Sabre0001

studioguest wrote: »

In my opinion Earls is a good player but is not fit to lace Drico's boots yet!! He was very poor with the chance he had for a try against The Allblacks that went to the TMO... Every winger knows that if you go low you have a better chance of not been shoved out to touch, I couldn't believe he went so high. Drico would have finished it off a bit like his try against Australia in the '03 world cup...

a) he's not really a winger - just been used there similar to the way, he's not a full back but has been used there. But yes, he should have gone low...

b) Holland doesn't suggest putting BOD out to pasture - instead, he wants to see BOD at 12 with Earls at 13 - which many people on boards have wanted to see at some point.

maherro

padser wrote: »

In fairness he isn't saying drop Drico to play Earls, - he is saying drop Darcy to play Earls.

Actually it's something I mentioned on these forums a few months ago, I would give serious consideration to Drico at 12.

RK, TB, KE, BOD, LF I think is our strongest backline. I also think BOD is somewhat more suited to 12 now rather than 13 - I don't think there is much of a sacrifice as long as he is at 12.

Obviously in a straight choice between BOD and Earls BOD gets the nod 110 times out of every 100.....

I's leave Earls on the wing. He's a predator. Let him roam and finish.

Iron Hide

Earls at 12 maybe? seems to be the nearest compromise

stejkenny

Iron Hide wrote: »

Earls at 12 maybe? seems to be the nearest compromise

ON the bench

maherro

12? Nah.

Imo you have two types of players at 12 distributors and boshers. He's neither. Earls needs the space that being on the wing can offer him to be truly effective

JustinDee

studioguest wrote: »

In my opinion Earls is a good player but is not fit to lace Drico's boots yet!! He was very poor with the chance he had for a try against The Allblacks that went to the TMO... Every winger knows that if you go low you have a better chance of not been shoved out to touch, I couldn't believe he went so high. Drico would have finished it off a bit like his try against Australia in the '03 world cup...

He's an excellent player and is definitely a promise.
I can think of very few people playing the game who would have scored a try like Brian O'Driscoll's last weekend. Thats why he plays there. He'd be a waste at first-five.

Iron Hide

12? Nah.

Imo you have two types of players at 12 distributors and boshers. He's neither. Earls needs the space that being on the wing can offer him to be truly effective

I dont think D'arcy is much of either, he seems more like an evasive runner to me. Not saying he's a bad player at all now but i cant really say i see him as a bosher in like the Yannick Jauzion sense or something,
distribution is usually good but its not his main attribute. Like i said, evasive

maherro

Iron Hide wrote: »

I dont think D'arcy is much of either, he seems more like an evasive runner to me. Not saying he's a bad player at all now but i cant really say i see him as a bosher in like the Yannick Jauzion sense or something,
distribution is usually good but its not his main attribute. Like i said, evasive

See I would have him as a bosher as he usually is tasked with bringing the ball straight up to the line

Fizman

Iron Hide wrote: »

I dont think D'arcy is much of either, he seems more like an evasive runner to me. Not saying he's a bad player at all now but i cant really say i see him as a bosher in like the Yannick Jauzion sense or something,
distribution is usually good but its not his main attribute. Like i said, evasive

maherro wrote: »

See I would have him as a bosher as he usually is tasked with bringing the ball straight up to the line

In terms of his style he would certainly come under the category of 'bosher' if it had to be one of the two. His frame does not help him here however. It may be a little unfair to compare him to Jauzion who is arguably the best centre over the past decade in terms of his effectiveness to both 'bosh' and his amazing offloading ability.

Personally I would be in favour of seeing BOD (12) and Earls (13) trialed before the WC.

CIARAN_BOYLE

I like the idea of giving BOD a run at 12, Earls could fill the gap at 13 well so +1

Iron Hide

He's a trier like but not powerful enough to blast people out of the way.
Plenty of centers and wingers are now the size of back row forwards, so its likely d'arcy will get boshed rather than do the boshing.

Flash92

I agree in a way. I think Holland is being foolishly biased in some of what he says, but he makes a good point. O'Driscoll at twelve I would like to see tried at some point and I've thought about it before. Then at 13? Earls would definitely be an option, I'd hope he ups his physicality a bit but he has the pace and step to do well. My personal preference would be to try Tommy Bowe in the centre however.

buck65

Earls is just getting back to game sharpness now but without him in the centre last season Munster lacked the pace and cutting edge that was so obvious against Australia when Earls had the ball.
He is definitely an outside centre but with O Driscoll there Earls needs to be on the wing at least because of the pace and willingness to try things that always keep defenders guessing.
Against the Saints 1/4 final last year Earls really had a field day and opened up acres of space for Warwick and deVilliers with his running.

CatFromHue

maybe we could trial a left-right centre partnership i.e. o driscoll is the left centre, earls the right so for a lineout on the left touchline o driscoll is the inside centre, for one on the right he would be the outside centre.

i think last weeks game showed how talented o driscoll is. i think only o driscoll from our backline would have scored the try where earls just missed out and very few of our backs could have scored the try o driscoll did. it wasnt just the pick up, he still had to power through 2 tacklers as well.

i disagree with holland on the johne murphy issue. where would he play for ireland? he has played in many different positions for munster as he was needed and done well in them all. but not to an international standard in them.

corny

Wouldn't agree a BOD-Earls partnership with Darcy shunned should be set in stone or anything but certainly it should have tested before now. Earls will be lucky if he gets 40 mins of rugby before the WC at this rate.

Quint2010

As a Leinster fan I would say try this out for sure. But I see its Drico and D'Arcy again. In fairness I dont think Darce played badly against NZ and maybe his physicality is best suited to the argies games too. But Earls and Drico for the WC maybe-particularly against the smaller teams..

danthefan

Considering the performance of our centres against NZ, Holland should shut it.

Edit - I see he wants ROG and Johne Murphy to start too. He's not biased at all.

phog

danthefan wrote: »

Considering the performance of our centres against NZ, Holland should shut it.

Edit - I see he wants ROG and Johne Murphy to start too. He's not biased at all.

At least he has a rugby brain unlike some of biased posters on this forum.

thomond2006

I'd love to know why the likes of Holland do these interviews, you only manage to stir provincial crap up again and again.

Otacon

danthefan wrote: »

Considering the performance of our centres against NZ, Holland should shut it.

Edit - I see he wants ROG and Johne Murphy to start too. He's not biased at all.

Jesus Christ, a guy wants more experimentation and you take his head off over it!

We already know what D'Arcy-BOD can do, let's see some more combinations. While I don't agree with ROG starting as Sexton needs all the time he can get, I was hoping Johne Murphy would be involved this weekend, possibly on the bench with Earls starting.

Stev_o

danthefan wrote: »

Considering the performance of our centres against NZ, Holland should shut it.

Edit - I see he wants ROG and Johne Murphy to start too. He's not biased at all.

You mean the one where both were at fault for two NZ tries and created nothing worthwhile in attack?

sickpuppy

thomond2006 wrote: »

I'd love to know why the likes of Holland do these interviews, you only manage to stir provincial crap up again and again.

He probably has a few accounts on here

phog

Stev_o wrote: »

You mean the one where both were at fault for two NZ tries and created nothing worthwhile in attack?

That was the fault of the outhalf not giving them good ball, oh no that cant be the case, sure ROG wason the bench. :rolleyes:

maherro

Don't think Murphy has that extra bit for international duty but since he's so versatile I wouldn't mind seeing him being a bench player

d'Oracle

Are people seriously trying to suggest that D'arcy is not physically up to contact at 12? (not a "Bosher"....I assume thats what that means)

Have any of you watched a second of his play over the last few years?
The man does not go down. I have seen him haul 3 players for extra yards.
Not that I don't think he is looking old now....

Also, +1 on the whole BOD at 12.
I think its high time. He has the hands and strength & tacklingness to do the job. Also loosing a bit of pace now.

Stev_o

d'Oracle wrote: »

Are people seriously trying to suggest that D'arcy is not physically up to contact at 12? (not a "Bosher"....I assume thats what that means)

Have any of you watched a second of his play over the last few years?
The man does not go down. I have seen him haul 3 players for extra yards.
Not that I don't think he is looking old now....

Also, +1 on the whole BOD at 12.
I think its high time. He has the hands and strength & tacklingness to do the job. Also loosing a bit of pace now.

D'Arcy's time has passed for a good 2 years now. The game has moved on and at 12 he just isn't what a Tier 1 Nation should be looking for.

JustinDee

Otacon wrote: »

Jesus Christ, a guy wants more experimentation and you take his head off over it!

He should try his own experimentation at the province he works in first.

stejkenny

phog wrote: »

At least he has a rugby brain unlike some of biased posters on this forum.

"The Kiwi also believes Ronan O'Gara is worth a place in the starting XV and Johne Murphy too

He freely accepts that his vision may be slightly impaired by his red-tinted glasses,"

There is some bias posting if i've ever seen it

Riskymove

stejkenny wrote: »

"The Kiwi also believes Ronan O'Gara is worth a place in the starting XV and Johne Murphy too

He freely accepts that his vision may be slightly impaired by his red-tinted glasses,"

There is some bias posting if i've ever seen it

of course other provinces would never make such comments

http://archives.tcm.ie/irishexaminer/2008/02/13/story55102.asp

justindee wrote:

He should try his own experimentation at the province he works in first.

If anything there has been too much experimentation with Earls

he has also played several times at 13...so what's your point here?

stejkenny

Riskymove wrote: »

of course other provinces would never make such comments

http://archives.tcm.ie/irishexaminer/2008/02/13/story55102.asp


thats from 2008 from a coach who is no longer with Leinster; Do you here any coach or memeber of staff speaking out with as much bias from the present setup; go back to trawling the archives fro something a bit newer and a bit more relevance. Keith Gleeson lol

pappyodaniel

I think it's something worth experimenting. I know it's a completely different sport but AC Milan had Franco Baresi play for them up until his late 30s and that is due to moving him into the role of a sweeper. They actually changed the formation of the team to incorporate having him in the side long after his pace started to wane. He was there for his experience, to organise defence and bring on the younger players around him.

Now moving BO'D to 12 wouldn't be quite the sea change as was seen at AC Milan but for the benefit of Irish rugby it's definately worth trying. Harsh on D'Arcy though because the man doesn't put a foot wrong or go backwards.

stejkenny

pappyodaniel wrote: »

I think it's something worth experimenting. I know it's a completely different sport but AC Milan had Franco Baresi play for them up until his late 30s and that is due to moving him into the role of a sweeper. They actually changed the formation of the team to incorporate having him in the side long after his pace started to wane. He was there for his experience, to organise defence and bring on the younger players around him.

Now moving BO'D to 12 wouldn't be quite the sea change as was seen at AC Milan but for the benefit of Irish rugby it's definately worth trying. Harsh on D'Arcy though because the man doesn't put a foot wrong or go backwards.

D'arcy had the highest tackle rate in the Irish team against the AB's with nearly 20 tackles.

And then you have people here saying that D'arcy is past it or isnt good enough for Tier 1 rugby!

The guy is playing really well this year and is, as he admitted, finally injury free and that game showed it.

Stev_o

stejkenny wrote: »

D'arcy had the highest tackle rate in the Irish team against the AB's with nearly 20 tackles.

And then you have people here saying that D'arcy is past it or isnt good enough for Tier 1 rugby!

The guy is playing really well this year and is, as he admitted, finally injury free and that game showed it.

A centre needs to do more then just make tackle othewise Jamie Noon would be regarded one of the worlds all time great centres.

stejkenny

Stev_o wrote: »

A centre needs to do more then just make tackle othewise Jamie Noon would be regarded one of the worlds all time great centres.

Oh yeah Keith Earls should be there for his prowess at butchering certain try scoring opportunities. He's definitely not a liability.

Riskymove

stejkenny wrote: »

[thats from 2008 from a coach who is no longer with Leinster; Do you here any coach or memeber of staff speaking out with as much bias from the present setup; go back to trawling the archives fro something a bit newer and a bit more relevance. Keith Gleeson lol

my point is that it does happen..coaching staff are biased in interviews all the time.what exactly do you expect a coach to say?

'my players are s&*te'? or 'they shouldn't be picked for Ireland, they are not up for it'?

stejkenny

Riskymove wrote: »

my point is that it does happen..coaching staff are biased in interviews all the time.what exactly do you expect a coach to say?

'my players are s&*te'? or 'they shouldn't be picked for Ireland, they are not up for it'?

Absolutely i agree 100% i was replying to phog who was complaining about biased posters on here and all i did was point out that the article in question was 100% biased to begin with.

Amazotheamazing

As usual, rather than praising their own player, posters rush to insult the other player, great work.

D'Arcy, Wallace and BOD, as 12's would offer massively different options to Ireland, should Ireland need them.Even bringing in a guy like Downey has it's merits.

Similarly, D'Arcy, BOD, Fitz, Earls and Bowe at 13 offer different options to Ireland. We shouldn't be afraid to try these things out.

Bowe plays 13 for the Ospreys occasionally and looks very good there, Earls tore England apart from 13 last year etc. Yes, BOD is by far the best 13 we have, but he's also relatively injury prone, do we expect him to play every game in the RWC pool next year, for example?

There will be life after BOD, it's up to Kidney to start preparing for it now, imo.

buck65

JustinDee wrote: »

He should try his own experimentation at the province he works in first.

In fairness Justin , Munster of all the provinces over the past 2 years have been forced into experimentation with long term injuries, suspensions etc. But sure let's not let facts get in the way of a good provincial bust up.

buck65

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

There will be life after BOD, it's up to Kidney to start preparing for it now, imo.

Why should he, he won't be around!

stejkenny

buck65 wrote: »

Why should he, he won't be around!

lol

stejkenny

buck65 wrote: »

But sure let's not let facts get in the way of a good provincial bust up.

Yeah but they started it!!!:D

Shane10

We shouldn't be afraid to try these things out

thats our problem, we never do until its to late and were already in the slump. i think the majority of informed rugby supporters wouldnt mind to much about the result if we saw promising signs with trying different players in different positions. kidney said last week that the players deserved another go against new zealand, remind you of anyone in a certain WC eddie.

stejkenny

Shane10 wrote: »

remind you of anyone in a certain WC eddie.

Edney

Stev_o

stejkenny wrote: »

Oh yeah Keith Earls should be there for his prowess at butchering certain try scoring opportunities. He's definitely not a liability.

When did i ever mention Keith Earls

Tim Robbins

I think Earls has a great turn of pace but needs a bit more upper body strength to play center. Sometimes you just have to take a crash ball and stay on your feet in that position.

As was pointed out a world class winger would have finished that try. It's hardly fair to be expecting everyone to be world class but at the same time it's hardly realistic to be thinking Earls is world class.

stejkenny

Stev_o wrote: »

When did i ever mention Keith Earls

Oh sorry you didn't mean moving keith earls to 13 and BOD to 12; so in essence getting rid of D'arcy for Earls; If i'm wrong fair enough but i assumed thats what you mean.

And making a comparison between Jamie Noon and Gordon D'arcy is beyond even talking about.

skregs

Stev_o wrote: »

D'Arcy's time has passed for a good 2 years now. The game has moved on and at 12 he just isn't what a Tier 1 Nation should be looking for.

Silly post.
He's an excellent defender, strong crashballer and great at slipping tackles at making extra yards.
The game is coming back to this style of play, away from the second out-half style of 12