explosive reps vs grinding reps out?

deadlybuzzman

Ive started lately to focus on being as explosive as possible on each rep and stop when the reps start to slow significantly, it working well so far in terms of progress, what I was wondering was over time will the progression continue? and what have other people found best for size and strength?

Hanley

Grinding out heavy, hard reps.

deadlybuzzman

Hanley wrote: »

Grinding out heavy, hard reps.

noted-think ill give it a try again once they start slowing down ive no real preference so long as I keep gettin bigger n so do the numbers!

Hanley

deadlybuzzman wrote: »

noted-think ill give it a try again once they start slowing down ive no real preference so long as I keep gettin bigger n so do the numbers!

If you're only ever doing "explosive" reps you're never going to be using a weight significant enough to generate an overload.

You don't do the heavy, slow reps thinking "I'll go slow". You try to do them as fast as possible but the weight just prevents that.

It's the intention more so than the result that matters.

deadlybuzzman

Hanley wrote: »

If you're only ever doing "explosive" reps you're never going to be using a weight significant enough to generate an overload.

You don't do the heavy, slow reps thinking "I'll go slow". You try to do them as fast as possible but the weight just prevents that.

It's the intention more so than the result that matters.

ah yeah I know what ure gettin at, id never deliberately go slow, what Im wondering is is there any merit in for example, regularly benching a weight that takes say 4 or 5 sec to lockout? ive improved alot of aspects of my lifting since I last did this but back then i seemed to just keep hitting a glass celing

dantes87

Hanley wrote: »

If you're only ever doing "explosive" reps you're never going to be using a weight significant enough to generate an overload.

You don't do the heavy, slow reps thinking "I'll go slow". You try to do them as fast as possible but the weight just prevents that.

It's the intention more so than the result that matters.

Not looking to undermine anyone but I just read this today. Personally it won't change my training but maybe there are some nuggets in it? what's your opinion on this? Can you trust anything on T-nation it seems to exist just to sell products now?

http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/most_recent/look_like_a_bodybuilder_perform_like_an_athlete

Hanley

dantes87 wrote: »

Not looking to undermine anyone but I just read this today. Personally it won't change my training but maybe there are some nuggets in it? what's your opinion on this? Can you trust anything on T-nation it seems to exist just to sell products now?

http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/most_recent/look_like_a_bodybuilder_perform_like_an_athlete

Is there a part youre referring to spcifically? Cos CT writes a new article every two weeks and each ones is bigger and better than the last, so don't really wanna waste my time reading it!

dantes87

Hanley wrote: »

Is there a part youre referring to spcifically? Cos CT writes a new article every two weeks and each ones is bigger and better than the last, so don't really wanna waste my time reading it!

I agree about CT worse than men's health in some ways.:)
But he does constantly preach explosive reps.
Whats your opinion on his theory that all you need to progress is working at lower percentages for sets of 3 explosive reps. Basically when you can do x number of sets at Y% you move up.
Don't bother reading the whole thing though.

Mellor

If you can be explosive, then go for it. Fire the warm-up sets up off your chest with a vengence. But there is no way that you can do this for the final set(s) at max weight.
Are they really suggesting that you never lift at your max potential when strength training?

If explosive is same as quickly. I didn't think so, if so why don't they just say quickly???

I lower under control, and lift up as quick as possible. The first time I press at a new weight, the final rep is a grind takign a few seconds. I'm going as quickly as possible, and tbh it feels like i'm going to explode. To me be that's explosive.

Hanley

dantes87 wrote: »

I agree about CT worse than men's health in some ways.:)
But he does constantly preach explosive reps.
Whats your opinion on his theory that all you need to progress is working at lower percentages for sets of 3 explosive reps. Basically when you can do x number of sets at Y% you move up.
Don't bother reading the whole thing though.

Let's all get on the same page...

I'm not takling about doing 95% weights all the time where it takes 3-5 seconds to grind them out. That'd just be stupid.

I'm talking about doing like a set of 5 or a set of 8 with 75-85% where the bar starts to slow down on the last couple of reps and doesn't move as fast as on the first rep, which may have been quite smooth, but not "explosive".

When I think "explosive" I think along the lines of Westside's DE stuff where bar weight is about 50-60% of your max and the concentric and eccentric combined takes 1-3 seconds to complete.

As for this bit;

Whats your opinion on his theory that all you need to progress is working at lower percentages for sets of 3 explosive reps. Basically when you can do x number of sets at Y% you move up.

That's progressive overload/linear periodisation/western periodisation/adding weight to the bar each week. It's not new, fancy or sexy. But it's brually effective.

If you're only allowed move up when you maintain some sort of consistent explosivity (I can't believe I just said that), then how does one measure it consistently and reliably unless you've got a dyno or tendo unit.

The whole idea of ONLY doing explosive training is stupid. It's for people who are afraid of doing hard reps, being uncomfortable and don't really wanna be strong or big anyway.

Does it have it's place in certain points of a training cycle...? Sure. But as a mass gaining/strength too?! Hells no.

Brian?

Hanley wrote: »

If you're only ever doing "explosive" reps you're never going to be using a weight significant enough to generate an overload.

You don't do the heavy, slow reps thinking "I'll go slow". You try to do them as fast as possible but the weight just prevents that.

It's the intention more so than the result that matters.

This.

I intend every rep I do to be explosive, however most of the time the weight on bar slows it down .

I don't see the point in worrying about explosive rep v time under tension v whatever . Adding weight to the bar is priority number 1.

I'm going to contradict all that though and say that sometimes speed work helps, particularly with deadlifts.

dartstothesea

Just curious, when talking about explosivaciousness, would most of you be meaning something like: time taken x distance bar moved x weight moved?

Hanley

Hanley wrote: »

When I think "explosive" I think along the lines of Westside's DE stuff where bar weight is about 50-60% of your max and the concentric and eccentric combined takes 1-3 seconds to complete.
.

dartstothesea wrote: »

Just curious, when talking about explosivaciousness, would most of you be meaning something like: time taken x distance bar moved x weight moved?

^^^^

The Guvnor

An explosive rep can in some cases need to be ground out.

The key is to keep pushing as hard as you can and the bar will pick up speed.

Barry.Oglesby

Some correct, some incorrect stuff on here. The explosive intent is important. It's not the only factor but it does play a roll.

I'm already regretting posting that.

edit: just noticed that Hanley already highlighted explosive intent.

The Bad Pawn

I like pyramid sets, grinding out the lighter and higher rep sets at the beginning and then trying for explosivenesss on the heavier lifts with lower reps - it's relative term though as when your lifitng near your max theres a limit to how explosive you can be (and depending on rest between sets).

i.e:

Bench:
12 x 60kg (grind)
10x 70kg (grind)
8 x 75kg (grind)
6 x 80kg (ex)
4 x 90kg (ex)
Failure x 90kg+

Hanley

The Bad Pawn wrote: »

I like pyramid sets, grinding out the lighter and higher rep sets at the beginning and then trying for explosivenesss on the heavier lifts with lower reps - it's relative term though as when your lifitng near your max theres a limit to how explosive you can be (and depending on rest between sets).

i.e:

Bench:
12 x 60kg (grind)
10x 70kg (grind)
8 x 75kg (grind)
6 x 80kg (ex)
4 x 90kg (ex)
Failure x 90kg+

How can you grind light weights and be explosive on heavy ones?

The Bad Pawn

Hey Hanley,

I guess by grind I mean steady lifting with no stop in the motion v's explosive which i'd interpret as pushing as hard as you can on the lift until you reach the top, at which point you either stop for a sec and then release or release relatively quickly. (where as with grinding the release is slow).

I could be wrong, just my own interpretation

Remmy

The Bad Pawn wrote: »

Hey Hanley,

I guess by grind I mean steady lifting with no stop in the motion v's explosive which i'd interpret as pushing as hard as you can on the lift until you reach the top, at which point you either stop for a sec and then release or release relatively quickly. (where as with grinding the release is slow).

I could be wrong, just my own interpretation

I dont think you should release at the top..ouch.

The Bad Pawn

"I dont think you should release at the top..ouch. "

I didn't say drop it;)

Transform

Hanley wrote: »

How can you grind light weights and be explosive on heavy ones?

exactly!!

Transform

briankeating wrote: »

This.

I intend every rep I do to be explosive, however most of the time the weight on bar slows it down .

I don't see the point in worrying about explosive rep v time under tension v whatever . Adding weight to the bar is priority number 1.

I'm going to contradict all that though and say that sometimes speed work helps, particularly with deadlifts.

I would agree with all of that and add that exploisve work can come in so many ways - oly lifting, med ball work, plyos, battling ropes, band resisted sprints etc I like the variety of the heavy compounds with explosive work

Hanley

The Bad Pawn wrote: »

Hey Hanley,

I guess by grind I mean steady lifting with no stop in the motion v's explosive which i'd interpret as pushing as hard as you can on the lift until you reach the top, at which point you either stop for a sec and then release or release relatively quickly. (where as with grinding the release is slow).

I could be wrong, just my own interpretation

Lifting under control =/= grinding reps out

The ones were you're pushing as hard as you can, and the bar's only inching its way up - that's grinding.

SpookyBastard

Might try this explosive stuff next time in lifting.. personally i prefer lifting heavy enough that by rep 7 or 8 i'm having to will the weight to move mm by mm. Guess explosive would add a little variety.

Hanley

SpookyBastard wrote: »

Might try this explosive stuff next time in lifting.. personally i prefer lifting heavy enough that by rep 7 or 8 i'm having to will the weight to move mm by mm. Guess explosive would add a little variety.

Have you read the thread?

SpookyBastard

Emm yeah, I have. I'm just saying that I've been doing it wrong I guess. Try as I might I find 'explosive intent' fecks off after about 15 mins of hard work and I end up just trying to lift the bloody weight rather than lift it with any intent other than simply lifting it. Maybe I'm lifting a little too heavy or just rubbish

I was just thinking that maybe if I lowered the weight a little from time to time it'd provide a change from grinding and allow for focusing on trying to move the weight explosively. I know every rep should be this way but as I said, after a while I'm just mindlessly grinding em out.

Parsley

it doesn't sound like you've understood the thread despite saying you've read it...

Scuba Ste

SpookyBastard wrote: »

Emm yeah, I have. I'm just saying that I've been doing it wrong I guess. Try as I might I find 'explosive intent' fecks off after about 15 mins of hard work and I end up just trying to lift the bloody weight rather than lift it with any intent other than simply lifting it. Maybe I'm lifting a little too heavy or just rubbish

I was just thinking that maybe if I lowered the weight a little from time to time it'd provide a change from grinding and allow for focusing on trying to move the weight explosively. I know every rep should be this way but as I said, after a while I'm just mindlessly grinding em out.

That's not exactly true, if your grinding out reps your probably moving the bar with explosive intent. Think of it this way, if your doing a 1RM and you don't try move the bar as fast and as hard as you can you will not move the bar. If your 'mindlessly' squatting your probably not 'grinding 'em out' if you get me. That's how I see it anyway.

On the explosive reps ala Westside Dynamic Effort, I think it has to be done in conjunction with your low rep heavy training otherwise your just getting good at moving light weights fast and it won't carry over to your strength training as much. I'd say it's unnecessary for most people tbh.

Hanley

Scuba Ste wrote: »

On the explosive reps ala Westside Dynamic Effort, I think it has to be done in conjunction with your low rep heavy training otherwise your just getting good at moving light weights fast and it won't carry over to your strength training as much. I'd say it's unnecessary for most people tbh.

Bingo. Exactly. Nail...head. On the ball. This. +1

Delete everything else in the thread and just leave this.

SpookyBastard

Ah right, gotcha. Cheers Scuba. It's the word explosive that's throwing me. I am pushing as hard (and I see now, as fast) as I can... just didn't seem all that 'explosive'.

I never said I understood the thread Parsley... hence feeling like I've been doing something wrong but yeah... now I get it... and apologies for offending folks with my stupidity :cool: