No cuts to politicians pay!!

4gun

one cut that I havent heard about is the cut in T.Ds' salaries..... each one could easily afford up t 50% cut ...what with all their expenses..get rid of the seanead compleately and town councillers for towns with population under 10,000
no, once again hit the low income
sad thing at this stage I gone beyond being angry...we were finally masters of out own destiny...only to be sold out
In a place where I go sea fishing in Kerry ther are the ruins of about a dozen old stone cottages ( an entire little community) over grown and only inhabited by goats ..is it a glimpse into the future of Ireland

dixiefly

Lenihan was told by Matt Cooper on Today FM that the politicians and Civil Service mandarins that are excessively paid in comparison to other countries should have a bigger cut to their pay. This would send out the right message and show that they are serious about solving the crisis.

Lenihan (of course) started to go on that those changes would have negligile effect on the overall savings and something like "I am concerned about real savings".

He is on a different planet because people would accept the cutbacks if they fet that those that contributed to the problem and are overpaid are recognising that and making the sacrifices.

Atilathehun

It's simply unbelieveable that the political elite, could stand before the nation today, to pummel each and every citizen, with higher taxes, higher service charges, reduced minimum wage and reduced salaries for new entrants to the public service AND AT THE SAME TIME HAVE THE GUMPTION NOT TO REDUCE SHARPLY THEIR OWN CRAZY SALARY LEVELS.

lucianot

Sure they feel paying more taxes is enough.

Welease

Atilathehun wrote: »

It's simply unbelieveable that the political elite, could stand before the nation today, to pummel each and every citizen, with higher taxes, higher service charges, reduced minimum wage and reduced salaries for new entrants to the public service AND AT THE SAME TIME HAVE THE GUMPTION NOT TO REDUCE SHARPLY THEIR OWN CRAZY SALARY LEVELS.

They get hit by the same income tax, vat and service charges raises as everyone else..
No pay was reduced for any current PS employees, so why would they single themselves out?

Jaysoose

Welease wrote: »

They get hit by the same income tax, vat and service charges raises as everyone else..
No pay was reduced for any current PS employees, so why would they single themselves out?

Because they are completely inept and have sunk the country, they should be facing 100% pay cuts.

Atilathehun

Welease wrote: »

They get hit by the same income tax, vat and service charges raises as everyone else..
No pay was reduced for any current PS employees, so why would they single themselves out?

Leadership! Show the way! They are cutting 10% off the salaries of new public service entrants. Does that mean that new TD's entering the Dail, get a similar cut? In fact, as the current Dail will soon be dissolved, is there not a case that all candidates elected to the next Dail, should start with a 10% cut versus curent pay levels:P

Welease

Atilathehun wrote: »

Leadership! Show the way! They are cutting 10% off the salaries of new public service entrants. Does that mean that new TD's entering the Dail, get a similar cut? In fact, as the current Dail will soon be dissolved, is there not a case that all candidates elected to the next Dail, should start with a 10% cut versus curent pay levels:P

We wish

I don't agree with the levels of their salaries.. but as I said, if they didnt hit any current public/civil service employees salaries directly, then i don't see why they would have bothered to hit their own salaries.

Tea drinker

Welease wrote: »

We wish

I don't agree with the levels of their salaries.. but as I said, if they didnt hit any current public/civil service employees salaries directly, then i don't see why they would have bothered to hit their own salaries.

Absolutely scandalous, they are waaaaaaaaaay overpaid.
I guess they can count on the public service to support their salaries in case their own get cut though. Quite the cosy cartel, even after all these years.

JMSE

Would that show up in a four year plan, cutting td's pay? More for a budget I'd say.

Welease

I may be mistaken.. but if memory serves TD salaries are linked to PS (or maybe CS) pay scales...

Atilathehun

Welease wrote: »

I may be mistaken.. but if memory serves TD salaries are linked to PS (or maybe CS) pay scales...

Ah, that explains the Croke Park deal then. No pay cut for the PS or the CS, means no pay cut for the **** in the Dail

LowOdour

Matt Cooper put this to Brian Lenihan this evening. Lenihan made his usual excuses. Then this
Matt Cooper: He earns more that Barack Obama
Brian Lenihan: Actually he doesnt
MC: Not far off it
BL: Yes, but he has the white house


Surprised that MC didnt pull him up on such a stupid comment

*Edit - wahey, 500th post....not a complete disaster of a day!

Welease

Atilathehun wrote: »

Ah, that explains the Croke Park deal then. No pay cut for the PS or the CS, means no pay cut for the **** in the Dail

Just checked.. they are linked to Principal Officer scale in the Civil Service..
In essence they don't have to award themselves pay increases or decreases, they get the same treatment as those on that scale.

ardmacha

Surprised that MC didnt pull him up on such a stupid comment

How exactly was this a stupid comment? Obama has a (rather nice) house provided free for him, Brian Lenihan doesn't. Lenihan's salary may be excessive but this is a valid point.

caseyann

As a democracy,the people should vote on salaries for the Dáil Other wise it is nothing more than glossed over dictatorship.

Drumpot

ardmacha wrote: »

How exactly was this a stupid comment? Obama has a (rather nice) house provided free for him, Brian Lenihan doesn't. Lenihan's salary may be excessive but this is a valid point.

What about the rest of the european premiers that dont all have a White house and why should "having a white house" effect his salary ? (why should we pay him more because he doesnt have a nice house to work out of, he can claim expenses on everything so he is never out of pocket!).

I personally think the Taoiseach deserves to be the highest paid public servant as they have the single most important job in the country.

But if they wanted to show true leadership they would lead by example and chop their wages for the greater good and to give them the moral authority to cut whatever salaries have to be chopped in the public service.

Atilathehun

ardmacha wrote: »

How exactly was this a stupid comment? Obama has a (rather nice) house provided free for him, Brian Lenihan doesn't. Lenihan's salary may be excessive but this is a valid point.

Not correct. Doesn't Biffo have the use of Farmleigh. Grand spot for a few cans with the lads after a hard day at the office.

caseyann

ardmacha wrote: »

How exactly was this a stupid comment? Obama has a (rather nice) house provided free for him, Brian Lenihan doesn't. Lenihan's salary may be excessive but this is a valid point.

I just dont get it,why is it heads of state have to live in Huge houses they are just people,their work shouldnt change where they live and should live in normal houses like everyone else.
Is it a shallow thing,whos house looks better against the others house.If they werent paying for Huge electric bills imagine how much money England and USA etc.. would save lol.
And why people call them leaders?I have no leader.:mad:

Welease

Drumpot wrote: »

But if they wanted to show true leadership they would lead by example and chop their wages for the greater good and to give them the moral authority to cut whatever salaries have to be chopped in the public service.

But they are linked to CS scales.. So if they were going to cut CS pay, then they would be cut by default anyway..

We have the CPA in place so the point of moral authority is kind of moot (imho).. the unions/PS/CS didn't want their pay scales cut, so do they have the moral authority to request cuts in TD salaries when they themselves won't take further cuts?

Both sets of salaries are linked.

Drumpot

Welease wrote: »

But they are linked to CS scales.. So if they were going to cut CS pay, then they would be cut by default anyway..

We have the CPA in place so the point of moral authority is kind of moot (imho).. the unions/PS/CS didn't want their pay scales cut, so do they have the moral authority to request cuts in TD salaries when they themselves won't take further cuts?

Both sets of salaries are linked.

Then unlink them and make a statement of intent. . In the lack of leadership or confidence, moral authority means alot IMHO.

Are you telling me that our government can agree to pump billions into banks but cant change the way they are paid or the way they are linked to public servants ? If a referendum is required, have it at the next election. .

But, just thinking didnt politicians take paycuts last year ?

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/budget/news/politicians-pay-taoiseach-leading-by-example-with-euro110000-wage-cut-1971264.html

It mentions voluntary paycut which would actually give the people even more confidence that the government is truley feeling our pain and wanting to do their bit.

Cookie_Monster

didn't they exempt themselves from the pension levy too?

How they can justify the pay levels compared to every other EU country is beyond me.

Take the pay amounts from all the EU cabinets, divide it by the population of the country, average it and multiply by the pop of our country. That would then be a fair amount.

southsiderosie

The US is not a good comparison because the President is both the head of government and the head of state, so to speak. So the White House serves the same function as Áras an Uachtaráin.

If anyone in the Irish government had any sense of leadership, then they should acknowledge that cuts have to come from the top. When Latvia cut public sector wages by over 25% (something which is inevitable in Ireland), their leader made a point of cutting his wages and benefits first, followed by the legislature's.

It is not unreasonable to have an official residence for heads of state and government, and for representatives to have some travel and office allowances. But given that Ireland is a small country with just over 4 million people, and you can drive from tip to tip in under half a day, I do not understand why TD allowances are so high. These people are greedy, plain and simple, and neither seem to know nor care how their behavior looks to the rest of the country - or the world.

keno-daytrader

Come on lads, would Tony Soprano take a pay cut if he didnt have to?

These guys are gangsters being driven around in free Merc's, how anyone could look at them now in any other light is beyond me.

How do we get them out and reform our system is the question.....

CamperMan

lucianot wrote: »

Sure they feel paying more taxes is enough.

do they pay taxes or fiddle it?

Welease

Drumpot wrote: »

Then unlink them and make a statement of intent. . In the lack of leadership or confidence, moral authority means alot IMHO.

Are you telling me that our government can agree to pump billions into banks but cant change the way they are paid or the way they are linked to public servants ? If a referendum is required, have it at the next election. .

Of course they can... I'm just pointing out why I believe they havent in the current round... and as you state below... they have already taken cuts and didn't take up increases owed as per national wage agreements previously..

Drumpot wrote: »

But, just thinking didnt politicians take paycuts last year ?

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/budget/news/politicians-pay-taoiseach-leading-by-example-with-euro110000-wage-cut-1971264.html

It mentions voluntary paycut which would actually give the people even more confidence that the government is truley feeling our pain and wanting to do their bit.

My personal opinion is that we should continue to link TD pay to top level civil servants pay.. (maybe top level CS pay shouldnt be so high!).. but we shouldn't look to drop it to rediculous low levels that some people suggest..

If you pay low wages you will only attract those who could not earn more elsewhere.. (and no I am not saying that paying more attracts the best)... We need to keep the pay suitable high to attract calibre.. and more importantly we need to choose better people to represent us.. If people are happy to vote in wasters like the current shower then the levels of pay are the least of our worries.

craggles

caseyann wrote: »

As a democracy,the people should vote on salaries for the Dáil Other wise it is nothing more than glossed over dictatorship.

Or it should be brought in line with politicians in the rest of Europe.

Liam Byrne

ardmacha wrote: »

How exactly was this a stupid comment? Obama has a (rather nice) house provided free for him, Brian Lenihan doesn't. Lenihan's salary may be excessive but this is a valid point.

We might actually be better off if Cowen HAD the White House!!! Then he couldn't claim expenses for turning up to work (unless he "lived" in West Cork)

Liam Byrne

Welease wrote: »

We need to keep the pay suitable high to attract calibre.. and more importantly we need to choose better people to represent us.. If people are happy to vote in wasters like the current shower then the levels of pay are the least of our worries.

We've voted in some of those because they're the best of a bad lot, so the massive salaries obviously aren't attracting people of calibre.

twowheelsonly

No Cuts, and no objection from the 'so-called' Opposition either.
On the contrary they're protecting themselves even further..

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/john-drennan/john-drennan-divided-dail-unites-to-give-itself-a-pay-rise-2410792.html

By John Drennan

Sunday November 07 2010


As the country faces economic meltdown, TDs and senators are planning to improve their already plush terms and conditions.
An official estimate of the money required to run the Dail in 2011 'sneaked' through the Dail last Thursday reveals that the recession stops at the gates of Leinster House.
In a touching scene, deputies across all parties suspended hostilities and agreed to the estimates without a single objection.
The estimates reveal that the cost of a Dail which serves fewer people than the population of cities such as greater Manchester, will in 2011 come to €112,983,000 -- which represents a drop of just €1.2m (or 1 per cent) on last year's spending.
But expenditure on the perks and services enjoyed by our TDs and senators will actually increase in certain areas next year.
The cost of salaries for TDs, senators and secretarial assistants will increase, while salaries of staff like those in catering and behind the Dail bar will decrease.
The estimates for 2011 reveal that there will be an increase in the postal and telecommunications service, which allows TDs and senators to send out promotional literature to their constituents.
The budget for delegates to 'other parliamentary assemblies' has increased by 50 per cent and the 'grant in aid' for 'inter-parliamentary activities' has also increased by a whopping 40 per cent.
Even this, however, is dwarfed by the increase in the budget for allowances in respect of former members of the houses of the Oireachtas, which has been increased from €49,000 to €149,000.
At a time when pensioners fear losing entitlements such as free travel, the estimates also contain an increase of the 'grant in aid' to parliamentary pensioners from from €10,084,000 to €10,562,000, indicating that Dail and Seanad pension recipients will be unique within the country in actually securing an increase next year. The estimates also reveal that there will be a substantial increase in the Budget for televising Dail and Seanad proceedings, which provides TDs and Senators with much-desired coverage.
Though some minimalistic cuts are revealed in the anticipated expenses of TDs and senators, one source noted that "when the increases are taken in the round, TDs and senators will not be losing a penny in salaries and expenses next year''.
- John Drennan
Sunday Independent

caseyann

craggles wrote: »

Or it should be brought in line with politicians in the rest of Europe.

No it should not they should be penalized for all the money they have gained from the tax payers of Ireland for the last however many years,and their extra houses etc... removed and auctioned to pay the bills of this country.They are no more than glorified by themselves mobsters.Their wages should be down to at least 80 grand a year.

caseyann

twowheelsonly wrote: »

No Cuts, and no objection from the 'so-called' Opposition either.
On the contrary they're protecting themselves even further..

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/john-drennan/john-drennan-divided-dail-unites-to-give-itself-a-pay-rise-2410792.html

It is and always will be money racketing scheme.Ofc they wont hit their own pockets only the public.They believe they are above the law and worth what they are paid.Michael Collins would be rolling in his grave

brendansmith

:eek:

http://irishpoliticalpopcorn.blogspot.com/2009/01/irish-political-gravy-train.html

caseyann

brendansmith wrote: »

:eek:

http://irishpoliticalpopcorn.blogspot.com/2009/01/irish-political-gravy-train.html

That just makes me sick:mad:

http://www.nwci.ie/news/2010/10/19/the-poor-cant-pay/

123balltv

Pat fecking Carey 200k im shocked never knew he earned that much

peaceboi

Absolute hypocrisy !!!
Feel disgusted.

twowheelsonly

brendansmith wrote: »

:eek:

http://irishpoliticalpopcorn.blogspot.com/2009/01/irish-political-gravy-train.html

I was half hoping that a large number of Independents would gain office next time round but looking at that is frightening!!!
Looks like a 'Stay quiet and mind your own corner' allowance to me.

• INDEPENDENT ALLOWANCE: Independent TDs are entitled to a TAX-FREE payment of €41,152 on top of their salaries, expenses and allowances just because they are not members of a political party.

Alwayson

On the day they announced the four year plan, I assume all the ministers got the bus home tonight as a mark of solidarity with the little people

4gun

at their current salary level.. do the even know the meaning of the word depression .... economically speaking
has their standard of living droped by any means...
certin aristocratic feeling to the whole thing

Fat_Fingers

Welease wrote: »

If you pay low wages you will only attract those who could not earn more elsewhere.. (and no I am not saying that paying more attracts the best)... We need to keep the pay suitable high to attract calibre.. and more importantly we need to choose better people to represent us.. If people are happy to vote in wasters like the current shower then the levels of pay are the least of our worries.

I do agree with you that wages cannot be drastically cut as that would just open a floodgates of corruption, mind you nothing new there i guess.
But i despair looking at currently highly paid “talent” in the office.
The majority of our TDs come from either teaching or legal backgrounds of one sort or another, a few farmers or farmers cum auctioneers cum undertakers, a few people with trade unionist backgrounds …
Brian Cowen – A local small town solicitor.
Mary Harney – was very briefly a secondary school teacher between her graduation in 1976 and her appointment to the Seanad in 1977.
Mary Coughlan - Very briefly worked as a social worker after college before taking her seat in a by election.
Brian Lenihan – a barrister who was a lecturer in TCD and practised as a barrister before becoming a TD.
John Gormley – Prior to entering full-time politics he ran an academy of European languages
Dermot Ahern - A local solicitor
Noel Dempsey – A career guidance teacher
Mary Hanafin – A secondary school teacher
Micheál Martin – A secondary school teacher.
Martin Cullen – worked as a sales manager for a wine company

Atilathehun

Fat_Fingers wrote: »

I do agree with you that wages cannot be drastically cut as that would just open a floodgates of corruption, mind you nothing new there i guess.
But i despair looking at currently highly paid “talent” in the office.
The majority of our TDs come from either teaching or legal backgrounds of one sort or another, a few farmers or farmers cum auctioneers cum undertakers, a few people with trade unionist backgrounds …
Brian Cowen – A local small town solicitor.
Mary Harney – was very briefly a secondary school teacher between her graduation in 1976 and her appointment to the Seanad in 1977.
Mary Coughlan - Very briefly worked as a social worker after college before taking her seat in a by election.
Brian Lenihan – a barrister who was a lecturer in TCD and practised as a barrister before becoming a TD.
John Gormley – Prior to entering full-time politics he ran an academy of European languages
Dermot Ahern - A local solicitor
Noel Dempsey – A career guidance teacher
Mary Hanafin – A secondary school teacher
Micheál Martin – A secondary school teacher.
Martin Cullen – worked as a sales manager for a wine company

Add Tony Killeen . Teacher.

AND worst of all, the teacher TD's keep their teaching jobs, which are then filled by subs. Can go on for decades. There should be a law against that type of gangsterism.

Padkir

Liam Byrne wrote: »

We've voted in some of those because they're the best of a bad lot, so the massive salaries obviously aren't attracting people of calibre.

Yes, but what type of people would it attract if the salary was slashed! personally I think the people who run the country should be well paid, but there shouldn't be half as many as there is, and as for town and county councillors...don't get me started!!!:rolleyes:

Why would anyone go into politics if it wasn't well paid! No matter what happens, even in the good times, you get slated!! For absolutely everything!! I'm not defending them, because they did act the d1ck, but will taking a few grand off each of their salaries really help?? It's a few million quid, which is nothing!! Time to look elsewhere to save the country!

BaZmO*

ardmacha wrote: »

How exactly was this a stupid comment? Obama has a (rather nice) house provided free for him, Brian Lenihan doesn't. Lenihan's salary may be excessive but this is a valid point.

Did you know that the President has to pay his own food bills? And likewise if he has friends over for dinner.

I don't see how people can claim that living in the White House is any real perk. I'd imagine that any President still has their own private residence anyway.

ednwireland

this sums it up for me - th irish examiner headline

Cuts for all...except for politicians and top public servants

http://www.irishexaminer.com/home/cuts-for-allexcept-for-politicians-and-top-public-servants-137521.html

ShumanTheHuman

Pat Carey stated on VB last night that td's will have pay cuts in the budget.
Proir to his appearance Constantin Gurdgiev said the first announcement by BL/BC should have a a 50% pay cut tds/senators/higher CS's - I imagine it'll closer to 5%. Also, Carey, said he would give up his garda driver/limo when the garda commissioner said it would be safe to do so! In the case of Bertie I suspect it'll never be safe

Tenger

Welease wrote: »

They get hit by the same income tax, vat and service charges raises as everyone else......so why would they single themselves out?

Its called leading by example.........

Tenger

ShumanTheHuman wrote: »

Pat.. Carey, said he would give up his garda driver/limo when the garda commissioner said it would be safe to do so! In the case of Bertie I suspect it'll never be safe

Who the hell cares about pat Carey.

Personally I think ministers (not junior ministers though) should have access to a car/driver from the POOL. I hvae no problem with that. However the drivers should be allowed to refuse to carry family members unless the minister is present (1 ministers used his driver to pick up the kids form school)

In terms of pay the TDs linked their salary to the CS as they knew that benckmarking was coming up. This happened under Bertie (who also enacted a allowance for ex Taoisaigh while in office, handy that) TDs should not be linked to CS salary levels.

I do agree that you need a certain level of reimbursment for TD. But lets have a cap of 80K for TDs, 100K for junior ministers, 120K for ministers and 150K for Top 3.

But lets put a stop to TDs bringing guests to Leinster House and claiming expenses. They use their position and expenses as TD to garner votes for the next election. Your guest, your bill. Let FF/FG/Lab/SF pay for your guests and/or your trip to an event in your backyard. (Isn't that the reason for Indo TDs to get their 40K, as they don't have party financial support?)

No more using the office of TD to sent election material to constituents.

Liam Byrne

Padkir wrote: »

Yes, but what type of people would it attract if the salary was slashed!

Couldn't possibly be any worse, tbh.

Also a chance that it would attract people who wanted to actually do the job and create a better society, without them being sidelined by people in it for the money.

Case in point : I can't put myself forward because I've been told a campaign would cost €100,000 that I don't - and will never - have.

MonkieSocks

The Leinster House Gravy Train at a Glance

Dual Abode Allowance - A Minister or a Minister of State, may claim for a second residence.
The allowance is confined to office holders who represent constituencies outside Dublin.
The dual abode allowance may be claimed on owned, rented or hotel accommodation and covers mortgage and interest repayments, auctioneers and solicitors fees and all maintenance costs including light, heating, repairs and insurance.

Constituency Office Grant - This grant of €8,888.17 is paid on a once off basis when a Deputy is first elected to establish and equip a Constituency Office.
The allowance is claimed on the basis of a declaration of expenses incurred by way of a signed form.


Constituency Office Maintenance Allowance - This is an annual allowance of €8,888.17 which is claimed by Deputies who have constituency offices.
This allowance is paid to cover rent, rates, light heat etc in constituency offices. Payment is made twice yearly in January and July of €4,444 on production of a signed declaration that the Deputy is incurring expenses in maintaining a constituency office.


Telephone Allowance - an Annual Allowance of €6,348.69 is paid to Deputies from the date of their election to the Houses of the Oireachtas. The payment to Senators is €4,761.52.
This allowance is to cover all telephone costs incurred by a Member. The allowance is unvouched.


Miscellaneous Expense - Annual allowance of €5,489.08 per annum for Deputies and €4,112.68 for Senators.
This allowance is unvouched and paid with the Member’s salary from the date of election to the Houses of the Oireachtas.


Constituency Travel Allowance -. There are three constituency bands (a) €2475, (b) €5,489 and (c) €8,782.
These payments are based on the size of the constituency from which a Deputy is elected.
This allowance is unvouched and is paid with the Deputy’s salary from the date of election to the Dáil.


Mobile Phone Allowance - Claimed on production of an original receipt from the service provider.
Members purchase the mobile phone and are refunded the amount up to €750 maximum every 18 months.


Travel
The Travel Allowance is recouped through a one-way-journey allocation, permitting Members living at locations greater than 24.135 kilometres (15 miles) from the Houses to recoup up to a given amount of one-way-journeys in 1 week.
The number of one-way-journeys permitted is based on the distance between the Member’s home and the Houses of the Oireachtas and ranges from 10 trips for those below 40km to 3 trips for those over 272km.

These trips can be claimed without the need for any verification.

Mileage rates for Senators and T.D.’s have been reduced by 25% from March 5th 2009. T
he current rates (reduced) are: First 6,437 Kms in the calendar year €0.5907 per kilometer. For any Kms after 6437 kms in the same calendar year €0.2846 per kilometer.

The new reduced mileage rates for Ministers of State from March 5th are €0.71 for the first 6437km and €0.34 thereafter subject to a cap of 96,540km.
Ministers of State are also entitled to employ two drivers, who work on a week on, week off basis.
These are very often friends or family members.


Subsistence
The Overnight Allowance is currently set at €139.67 per night.
Members recouping the Overnight Allowance may recoup an Overnight Allowance for the night before and also the night of a sitting of the Dail, a committee of which they are a member, when they are conducting parliamentary business or when they attend in the Houses for the purpose of conducting parliamentary business.
This allowance is unvouched and does not require receipts as the TD or Senator may for instance opt to stay with family or friends.


Daily allowance
Members living at a location within 24.135 kilometres (15 miles) from the Houses may recoup their expenses in attending in the Houses through the Daily Allowance only (€61.53 per day).
Such Members are not entitled to claim the Overnight and Travel Allowances.


Special Secretarial Allowance - This is an allowance under which the individual needs of Members are catered for through four different options. The options include the engagement of a Parliamentary Assistant at a cost of €41,092.

Constituency Secretaries - Each TD is entitled to employ two secretaries to operate their constituency office (which may be located in the Dail or in their home town).

These staff are paid directly by the Oireachtas and are simply nominated for the job by the TDs.

They are very often family members or friends.




ALL ABOARD

shannonpowerlab

If you want to make a differnece...I say we should all leave and stop paying these people...

traco

I think we should employ some of this thinking for political elite and their advisers. Apply financial penalties to elected officials and also the opposition for their failures and also senior advisers etc, teach them that it is their responsibility to manage our funds in a proper constructive manner.

They made, allowed or facilitated the desicions so lets make them accountable - sorry forgot Ireland doesn't do accountability :mad:

link to forbes article