Class Discipline

barleybooley

Hi Guys, feel free to tell me if this isn't the right place but here goes:

I'm supervising at the moment in a secondary school where my mother is deputy principal. I'm supervising students in subjects that I haven't done in years but have been instructed to give out work. In each class there are one or two students who insist on rocking the boat despite being moved, notes in journals to get signed and so forth. It's obviously very disruptive behaviour and very unfair on those who want to work.

Any tips from actual teachers on class control? These kids' names are constantly being mentioned in the staff room so they play up in every class. They are from all years and it is solely boys that are giving me grief, the girls don't.

freire

Back of the class, all together and ignore them as you would any pariah. It's tough but it's worth it. Cut off the oxygen.

I'm feeling cynical today for some reason.

On the other hand you could try engaging with them on some level, offer to help them with assigned work, keep them busy in one way or another, preferably productively. Could be they're weaker kids, bored because they're unable and therefore unwilling to do the work.

It's a rare kid that's all bad, there's usually a reason for annoying you. And in fairness you're fresh meat, won't help if they know you're the son of someone either.

But don't bring the prejudices of the staff room to the classroom, as kids can often sense this.

If all else fails tell them they're boring and give them a thousand lines.

Kohl

barleybooley wrote: »

Hi Guys, feel free to tell me if this isn't the right place but here goes:

I'm supervising at the moment in a secondary school where my mother is deputy principal. I'm supervising students in subjects that I haven't done in years but have been instructed to give out work. In each class there are one or two students who insist on rocking the boat despite being moved, notes in journals to get signed and so forth. It's obviously very disruptive behaviour and very unfair on those who want to work.

Any tips from actual teachers on class control? These kids' names are constantly being mentioned in the staff room so they play up in every class. They are from all years and it is solely boys that are giving me grief, the girls don't.

put them out of the classroom? who cares whether these idiots get an education or not. they obviously don't want to learn or they'd shut the **** up

freckly

Are you a teacher? You can use what you learned from your own subjects. If youre not a teacher, you really shouldnt be supervising. Not meant as a personal attack, but there are so many NQTs looking for subbing and a vice principals son or daughter should not be there. You really do need training and experience to know what to do in any classroom, be it teaching or supervising.

delta_bravo

Confidence in your subject: Brush up and be confident. If they know you are a sub you are immediately on the back foot.

Proximity: Stay near the students throughout the class. Stay standing and maintain a good presence.

Choice: Say to them "you can start working now or you will have punishment work etc.". If they say to you punishment work to be funny just dish it out at the end of class.

One on one: A one on one chat at the end of class when the audience isn't around can help.

delta_bravo

Kohl wrote: »

put them out of the classroom? who cares whether these idiots get an education or not. they obviously don't want to learn or they'd shut the **** up

Thats fairly rubbish advice. Has that ever worked in your class?

Fizzical

A main function of the Deputy Principal is maintenance of discipline within the school.

The DP also supports individual teachers in maintaining discipline within their own classes.

Ask your mother for advice and active help during school time.

And if you are not a trained teacher, you should NOT be there.

implausible

Kohl wrote: »

put them out of the classroom? who cares whether these idiots get an education or not. they obviously don't want to learn or they'd shut the **** up

Methinks the poster isn't a teacher....:rolleyes:

Dionysus

Kohl wrote: »

put them out of the classroom?

One word: insurance.

barleybooley

freckly wrote: »

Are you a teacher? You can use what you learned from your own subjects. If youre not a teacher, you really shouldnt be supervising. Not meant as a personal attack, but there are so many NQTs looking for subbing and a vice principals son or daughter should not be there. You really do need training and experience to know what to do in any classroom, be it teaching or supervising.

Fizzical wrote: »

A main function of the Deputy Principal is maintenance of discipline within the school.

The DP also supports individual teachers in maintaining discipline within their own classes.

Ask your mother for advice and active help during school time.

And if you are not a trained teacher, you should NOT be there.

I'm hardly going to turn down work at a time when I'm not entitled to *ANYTHING* from the state and my only source of income is a few hours at the weekend in a pub. Also, my mother tried to get someone in for the week that this particular teacher is out for but to no avail. I didn't ask for advice on whether I was entitled to be there or not, I merely asked how to get control of a class.

Thanks to everyone else. I've started to take up journals when people are acting up and I tell them if they've to be warned again, they're getting a note home (their journals have to be signed every evening). This seems to work for most kids but there are some who don't give a damn if I do that. It doesn't matter where I put them, they just keep disrupting other students, throwing stuff at them kicking the other kids' tables, NIGHTMARE. They just seem to be proud that they're not going anywhere. I know it's awful to say but they even tell me themselves they don't care about school, which in itself is fine but they insist on trying to drag others down with them. I know it's in every school everywhere and has gone on for years but I'd just love to know how I keep it to a minimum.

evolving_doors

Have you tried turning the rest of the class on them?

freire

barleybooley wrote: »

It doesn't matter where I put them, they just keep disrupting other students, throwing stuff at them kicking the other kids' tables, NIGHTMARE.

I feel your pain. This is unfortunately part and parcel of learning the trade. If you're fairly green it's going to happen, no amount of advice or 'book learning' will sort it out for you.

It really helps to be assertive and project confidence, have some kind of presence. Believe in yourself. This is corny but very true. You're the one in charge, the only one, you're the boss, what you say goes.

Give them no quarter. They don't argue. They don't question your instruction, ever. You have to be consistent on this and it's tough at the start with little experience but it's fundamental.

Have you tried phoning parents? Arranging a meeting? Going to year head?
Most parents will not like having to come to the school to discuss Sean or Mary's appalling lack of manners and respect. If only because it messes up their day.

Your code of conduct provides for this sort of thing, it's usually a staged thing, persistent disruption and misbehaviour has sanctions, it has to otherwise the lunatics would be running the asylum. Don't be afraid to ask for help.

Kids can be very tough customers, they can spot any weakness very quickly and work on it. And work on it. And the worst is that you could lose the entire class as that behaviour is like a disease, it infects and changes class dynamic to an alarming degree.

We all see it and some of the most experienced teachers in school see it and have to deal with it. And learn from it.

Every day's a school day.

kermitpwee

barleybooley wrote: »

I'm hardly going to turn down work at a time when I'm not entitled to *ANYTHING* from the state and my only source of income is a few hours at the weekend in a pub. Also, my mother tried to get someone in for the week that this particular teacher is out for but to no avail. I didn't ask for advice on whether I was entitled to be there or not, I merely asked how to get control of a class.

Thanks to everyone else. I've started to take up journals when people are acting up and I tell them if they've to be warned again, they're getting a note home (their journals have to be signed every evening). This seems to work for most kids but there are some who don't give a damn if I do that. It doesn't matter where I put them, they just keep disrupting other students, throwing stuff at them kicking the other kids' tables, NIGHTMARE. They just seem to be proud that they're not going anywhere. I know it's awful to say but they even tell me themselves they don't care about school, which in itself is fine but they insist on trying to drag others down with them. I know it's in every school everywhere and has gone on for years but I'd just love to know how I keep it to a minimum.

Follow my advice and you will be fine.

These kids think your not going to "hang them". Now when they act up detail the incident on paper and give it to the year head. They will then have sanctions imposed on them by the year head and they will cop on. It's the only way forward for you. Writing in their journal will not work for the hardcore offender.

Keep at it, it will get better if you follow what i have detailed. Don't be worried because your mam is vice, you have to take action for your own sanity and the students education.

Good luck.

evolving_doors

DEfinitey keep an exact record of everything that happens, if things escalate further you may be asked to outline the incidents and the more you have the better, ... It happened to me before ..after every class I just blotted it out of my mind,,, eventually when I went to the vice she asked for a record and I just mumbled and bumbled...make a list..follow the chain of discipline from tutor to year head to vice principal..

In the end i refused to teach that class till they stopped,, the rest of the class turned on the students (verbally).. it was amazing to hear them speak up for the class while I stood back for a change. (just took 2 days too)
I think you need to get at least a 75% majority of students on your side for this to work though.

seriouslysweet

Have you been given no guidelines? As for supervising, surely you should do something with them. I'd be frustrated if a non-teacher came into us and just sat there twiddling their thumbs!

doc_17

Ring home and speak to someone - won't work for all of them but it might work for one. But be warned - ask other staff members if they have done this cos there's a chance you might be told to go and get f******!

naoimikid

everything you have said is so true. I have recently entered teaching as a NQT. I have been teaching full-time since September (all boys). It is only after three months that I am starting to really get anywhere with disruptive students. I think the biggest mistake NQTs make is that they try to be liked by their students - this can be a big mistake as they start to see you as being on their level and forget that you are in charge. I have one particular class that are very difficult in terms of behaviour - they constantly talk, mess, argue, throw things around the room, ask ridiculous and personal questions etc throughout the lesson. It is extremely frustrating as I have tried several different methods of discipline to little avail. I write notes in journals, send students to their year head, issue detentions, phone parents and the issue is not improving too much. it is particularly difficult because about 70% of the class are disruptive and it is difficult to pin-point any one or two students who are a problem. Sometimes you can get everyone paying attention for a few minutes (bliss) and then all of a sudden some smartass makes a comment or joke and I lose the attention of the students again. I then ask for the student's journal or ask them to go to the year head and they put up a fight. I refuse to argue or discuss the issue but time gets wasted on the student who actually doesn't care about their education. This bothers me beyond belief! To make the situation worse, the teacher they had last year did not get enough work covered with the class and they are an exam class. I am now under severe pressure to get the course covered and am actually gettin guff from parents because of that. Some parents do not realise that their kids are not studying and presume that when the student gets a bad result, its the teacher's fault. It is a very difficult job!

superdooper

doc_17 wrote: »

Ring home and speak to someone - won't work for all of them but it might work for one. But be warned - ask other staff members if they have done this cos there's a chance you might be told to go and get f******!

While I wouldnt use those exact words, you would get a fairly short shrift from me. REAL teachers wouldnt but the one who does a few weekend shifts down the local bar suddenly playing teacher and then giving out about behaviour because she hasnt a clue what shes at would. I would seriously advise you not to ring the parents- I would imagine that most parents would have this reaction. Those who dont will probably give out behind your back. You cant expect respect if the students know your not a teacher...sure its hard enough for the real teachers to get respect. Im not saying its right, but it is the way it is!

funkt

kermitpwee wrote: »

Follow my advice and you will be fine.

These kids think your not going to "hang them". Now when they act up detail the incident on paper and give it to the year head. They will then have sanctions imposed on them by the year head and they will cop on. It's the only way forward for you. Writing in their journal will not work for the hardcore offender.

Keep at it, it will get better if you follow what i have detailed. Don't be worried because your mam is vice, you have to take action for your own sanity and the students education.

Good luck.

not a great idea kids will lose any bit of respect they may have had for you if you go running to a higher power
best thing to do is get them on your side
a good way to do this is chat and a bit of a joke with the class and be sure to include the messers aswel
before long all the students will get bored of the work sheets the teacher has left and will cop on that the chances are the teacher wont even correct them
so roll along with the students youl be less stressed and u will come out with more controle aswel

Sardonicat

barleybooley wrote: »

Hi Guys, feel free to tell me if this isn't the right place but here goes:

I'm supervising at the moment in a secondary school where my mother is deputy principal. I'm supervising students in subjects that I haven't done in years but have been instructed to give out work. In each class there are one or two students who insist on rocking the boat despite being moved, notes in journals to get signed and so forth. It's obviously very disruptive behaviour and very unfair on those who want to work.

Any tips from actual teachers on class control? These kids' names are constantly being mentioned in the staff room so they play up in every class. They are from all years and it is solely boys that are giving me grief, the girls don't.

Is this even legal?

gaeilgebeo

Sardonicat wrote: »

Is this even legal?

It is legal. Why would it be illegal?

barleybooley

Armelodie wrote: »

Have you tried turning the rest of the class on them?

Don't think this is fair? A little ostracising? Bullying maybe? Wouldn't sit right with me...

seriouslysweet wrote: »

Have you been given no guidelines? As for supervising, surely you should do something with them. I'd be frustrated if a non-teacher came into us and just sat there twiddling their thumbs!

I was told by the principal to do work with them but that was as far as the instructions went so I gave them loads of exams questions to do with the book and have done for the next class. They then told me when I was collecting them that they didn't think I was serious, that they never had to hand up work before and I'd well believe it seeing as I myself had the teacher I was filling in for and they were beyond useless.

doc_17 wrote: »

Ring home and speak to someone - won't work for all of them but it might work for one. But be warned - ask other staff members if they have done this cos there's a chance you might be told to go and get f******!

Em, wouldn't really be comfortable with that, surely that's for the higher powers to do in more serious cases?

superdooper wrote: »

While I wouldnt use those exact words, you would get a fairly short shrift from me. REAL teachers wouldnt but the one who does a few weekend shifts down the local bar suddenly playing teacher and then giving out about behaviour because she hasnt a clue what shes at would. I would seriously advise you not to ring the parents- I would imagine that most parents would have this reaction. Those who dont will probably give out behind your back. You cant expect respect if the students know your not a teacher...sure its hard enough for the real teachers to get respect. Im not saying its right, but it is the way it is!

Eh, do you know me?! I feel like you're having a personal dig at me in that post! Seeing as I actually *do* work in a pub at the weekends and I am female?

Sardonicat wrote: »

Is this even legal?

I'm pretty sure it is because I have an honours degree. I'm exactly as qualified as someone doing the PGDE and they're allowed to be there are they not?

Now, as it happens I'm not needed this week due to there being quite a bit of snow and ice. So next time I'm in, it'll be for an entirely different set of classes I'd say and the whole rigmarole begins again

implausible

doc_17 wrote: »

Ring home and speak to someone - won't work for all of them but it might work for one. But be warned - ask other staff members if they have done this

Do not do this without checking with other teachers first. Only form teachers are allowed to ring home in my school and in other schools.

funkt wrote: »

not a great idea kids will lose any bit of respect they may have had for you if you go running to a higher power
best thing to do is get them on your side
a good way to do this is chat and a bit of a joke with the class and be sure to include the messers aswel
so roll along with the students youl be less stressed and u will come out with more controle aswel

This was obviously written by a student. Trying to get them to like you is not the way to go (initially anyway).

As others have said, make notes of everything. I find that even taking out a bit of paper and writing students' names on it can be enough to quieten them, if they know that you are willing to go to a form teacher or year head.

Fuinseog

Kohl wrote: »

put them out of the classroom? who cares whether these idiots get an education or not. they obviously don't want to learn or they'd shut the **** up

you cannot put a child out of the classroom. the gurrier has rights and they are well versed in them.

Fuinseog

Fizzical wrote: »

A main function of the Deputy Principal is maintenance of discipline within the school.

The DP also supports individual teachers in maintaining discipline within their own classes.

Ask your mother for advice and active help during school time.

And if you are not a trained teacher, you should NOT be there.

the OP is talking about supervising, not teaching and the school is interested in having a body in the class.
a lot of teachers are teaching subjects they are not remotely qualified to teach.

Sardonicat

barleybooley wrote: »

I'm pretty sure it is because I have an honours degree. I'm exactly as qualified as someone doing the PGDE and they're allowed to be there are they not?

Now, as it happens I'm not needed this week due to there being quite a bit of snow and ice. So next time I'm in, it'll be for an entirely different set of classes I'd say and the whole rigmarole begins again

I was asking if it is legal fo a parent to decide to hire her child? Did you interview?

kermitpwee

barleybooley wrote: »

Don't think this is fair? A little ostracising? Bullying maybe? Wouldn't sit right with me...



I was told by the principal to do work with them but that was as far as the instructions went so I gave them loads of exams questions to do with the book and have done for the next class. They then told me when I was collecting them that they didn't think I was serious, that they never had to hand up work before and I'd well believe it seeing as I myself had the teacher I was filling in for and they were beyond useless.



Em, wouldn't really be comfortable with that, surely that's for the higher powers to do in more serious cases?



Eh, do you know me?! I feel like you're having a personal dig at me in that post! Seeing as I actually *do* work in a pub at the weekends and I am female?



I'm pretty sure it is because I have an honours degree. I'm exactly as qualified as someone doing the PGDE and they're allowed to be there are they not?

Now, as it happens I'm not needed this week due to there being quite a bit of snow and ice. So next time I'm in, it'll be for an entirely different set of classes I'd say and the whole rigmarole begins again

Why are you so sad? I have outlined to you in a previous post the solution to your problems.

superdooper

First of all, Ill start by saying Im not making personal digs at you. I do find the system insane and have NQT friends who cant get any work at the moment. They are under the impression that people with pull and connections are getting the subbing in a lot of cases and you are an example here.


I was told by the principal to do work with them but that was as far as the instructions went so I gave them loads of exams questions to do with the book and have done for the next class. They then told me when I was collecting them that they didn't think I was serious, that they never had to hand up work before and I'd well believe it seeing as I myself had the teacher I was filling in for and they were beyond useless.

This quote worries me and should worry you. Its a very naive thing to post on a forum. How many vice principals children are subbing in Mayo (if thats where the school is) and having difficulty? This leaves you open to identification as critiscising a teacher. If you can delete that section, do.




Eh, do you know me?! I feel like you're having a personal dig at me in that post! Seeing as I actually *do* work in a pub at the weekends and I am female?

Working in a pub is a perfectly valid job. My point is that students and parents could know you from the pub. They therefore have a good idea that
you are not a teacher (although Im sure many of the out of work NQTs are working in other jobs) and will find it hard to respect you as a teacher. When we all read about serious job shortages for teachers, how can you expect parents and children to respect you in a school? Cases like yours highlight the major problems in the system.

I'm pretty sure it is because I have an honours degree. I'm exactly as qualified as someone doing the PGDE and they're allowed to be there are they not?
Having a degree does not make you a teacher or a PGDE. PGDE students are Garda vetted. I would imagine you (or other unqualified subs) are not. They are also training, have cooperating teachers and supervised visits. They are trainee teachers and have been accepted onto a course as such. You are a person with a degree. This should not allow you into a school in the capacity of a teacher or supervisor.



[/QUOTE]

peanuthead

barleybooley wrote: »

Don't think this is fair? A little ostracising? Bullying maybe? Wouldn't sit right with me...

No I agree with previous poster who said to turn them against one another.

Fair enough, the wording isn't great but here's how I use it:

I let the class know that they have plenty of rights as students. Students love their rights. But with each right comes a responsibility.

If we don't take our responsibilities seriously, we are infringing the rights of the class. You would be amazed at how this works.

Each time you have to interrupt the lesson, you say "John, you have a responsibility to listen to me and allow the rest of the class to hear me. They have the right to be taught here, you know?"

John eventually gets the message.


Also, another tip I would give is to NEVER speak over a student. Don't get into the habit of talking over them, having to constantly raise your voice to the point you're shouting. Demand silence before you speak. I demand silence in a very simple way. I wont speak until they're quiet.

The first time I did that I was 5 minutes in front of the class staring at them. 5 MINUTES! A long time to be just standing there saying nothing. I eventually looked at my watch and then at the clock. They got the message then and now all I have to do is roll up my sleeve, look at my watch and someone is bound to actually take on the task of getting the rest of the class to quieten down for me.


Another thing that I feel works particularly well is positive reinforcement. A lot of students are bold for attention. If you give them that attention first thing , eg: as John is walking in the door say "Good morning John, and how are you today? Good I hope?" He may be less likely to kick off for said attention 5 minutes into class.

Please do try these. I worked in a seriously disadvantaged school where fcuk u was the order of the day and this worked. Not all the time, and mostly with juniors, but it worked nevertheless.

barleybooley wrote: »

Eh, do you know me?! I feel like you're having a personal dig at me in that post! Seeing as I actually *do* work in a pub at the weekends and I am female?

Don't take it personally, poster had a 50-50 chance of getting your sex right and you mentioned the pub yourself earlier!

Sardonicat wrote: »

I was asking if it is legal fo a parent to decide to hire her child? Did you interview?

It's not necessary to interview for such short term positions - not in VEC schools anyway, don't know if that is all across board but I would imagine it is.

Sardonicat

peanuthead wrote: »

It's not necessary to interview for such short term positions - not in VEC schools anyway, don't know if that is all across board but I would imagine it is.

So the only criteria needed to be fulfilled is an honours degree in anything?How is their suitability for keeping control of a room full of teens established? Are these supervisors garda vetted?

I am a graduate and I had absolutely no idea it would be possible for me to walk into a secondary school and supervise.

peanuthead

Sardonicat wrote: »

So the only criteria needed to be fulfilled is an honours degree in anything?How is their suitability for keeping control of a room full of teens established? Are these supervisors garda vetted?

I am a graduate and I had absolutely no idea it would be possible for me to walk into a secondary school and supervise.

Well, I think the desired criteria would be that they had an honours degree in the subject they were subbing for.

To be fair, it's a little naive to not know that at this stage - that has been going on for so long!

This is my first year teaching qualified, but my fifth year in total and I kid you not when I say that this is also my first year being garda vetted.

I even brought it to the attention of my last employer that I was not garda vetted and he told me I would be fine. Now I know I've done nothing odd but it was a little too trusting on his part don't you think.

Now that is probably not the procedure you will find in any Dep of Ed documentation or policies, but I can tell you that it absolutely happens.

In addition to that, if someone calls in sick and a sub is needed for a week and you can't find a qualified teacher to fill in for that week - the week would have come and gone before the sub was garda vetted, although I know they should be vetted in advance if they wish to work as subs.

Sardonicat

The more I read this thread, the more terrified I become. Teachers aren't even being Garda vetted? Do you not get vetted before you go out on placement during the H Dip/PGDE? Student Nurses need to be vetted before they can go on the wards (this was the case in 2002, anyway), so I always asumed it would be the same for any type of training for professionals that required garda clearance. Unless you need to get clearance subsequent to qualifying also?

Naive or not for not being aware that non-qualified, non-interviewed, non-vetted relatives of teaching staff can walk into a classroom, I still think it is outrageous.

This thread has certainly been an education for me!

delta_bravo

All pgde students ARE Garda vetted

Dionysus

peanuthead wrote: »

This is my first year teaching qualified, but my fifth year in total and I kid you not when I say that this is also my first year being garda vetted.

I even brought it to the attention of my last employer that I was not garda vetted and he told me I would be fine.

Same here. It was only when starting the PGDE that I was Garda vetted. I also had to produce my Garda vetting when I started work at the end of August 2010. Prior to that, principals were just delighted that I could turn up when they needed me. Although one day I brought kids to a swimming pool and the more established girl next to me asked me was I vetted. I thought it was an odd question and then realised it was probably because I took out my phone (which has a camera that I had forgotten about) to text somebody while sitting in the visitors'/viewing area. Not a nice feeling so needless to say I never took the phone out again.

Anyway, the current system for employing subs is seriously lax!

Dionysus

Fuinseog wrote: »

you cannot put a child out of the classroom. the gurrier has rights and they are well versed in them.

hehe. Too True.

midlandsmissus

"She couldn't get anyone else to fill in that week". Really? Or she wanted to get her out of work daughter a bit of work? Come on.


As a previous poster said, is this even legal? There is a huge conflict of interest here, as a parent will desire to give employment to her child over all other candidates. It should be somebody with impartiality to all candidates that does the hiring of subs.

Nepotism is unbelievably rife in schools.

peanuthead

delta_bravo wrote: »

All pgde students ARE Garda vetted

Yeah, sorry I stand corrected, this is my second year being vetted. I was vetted for the Dip but I worked for 3 years before that without any

barleybooley

superdooper wrote: »

First of all, Ill start by saying Im not making personal digs at you. I do find the system insane and have NQT friends who cant get any work at the moment. They are under the impression that people with pull and connections are getting the subbing in a lot of cases and you are an example here.

Not much I can do about this, I'm a partially employed graduate who's entitled to no money from the state, leaving me to sponge off my parents for another while. Now, that's hardly fair either is it? Did your NQT friends check their voicemail for messages left looking for a substitute for History and Geography last week? No?

superdooper wrote: »

This quote worries me and should worry you. Its a very naive thing to post on a forum. How many vice principals children are subbing in Mayo (if thats where the school is) and having difficulty?

No, I know exactly the implications of saying that on the net but it doesn't bother me too much.

superdooper wrote: »

Working in a pub is a perfectly valid job. My point is that students and parents could know you from the pub. They therefore have a good idea that you are not a teacher (although Im sure many of the out of work NQTs are working in other jobs) and will find it hard to respect you as a teacher. When we all read about serious job shortages for teachers, how can you expect parents and children to respect you in a school? Cases like yours highlight the major problems in the system.

Unlikely. Parents aren't in the classroom anyway and it's not like I go in saying "I'm a recent graduate and I have zero qualifications, respect me.".

superdooper wrote: »

Having a degree does not make you a teacher or a PGDE. PGDE students are Garda vetted. I would imagine you (or other unqualified subs) are not. They are also training, have cooperating teachers and supervised visits. They are trainee teachers and have been accepted onto a course as such. You are a person with a degree. This should not allow you into a school in the capacity of a teacher or supervisor.

Gosh, you really have it in for me, don't you? No, I am not Garda vetted but I'm also not working there full time. I haven't fooled myself into thinking I'm a teacher so please give over. I came on here looking for advice, not to be slated. So please don't post unless it's constructive.

midlandsmissus wrote: »

"She couldn't get anyone else to fill in that week". Really? Or she wanted to get her out of work daughter a bit of work? Come on.

As a previous poster said, is this even legal? There is a huge conflict of interest here, as a parent will desire to give employment to her child over all other candidates. It should be somebody with impartiality to all candidates that does the hiring of subs.

Nepotism is unbelievably rife in schools.

Yes, I was in her office when she was trying to get through to people, not one person got back to her. Not one. I can't help that, can I? And seeing as I know the Principal and VP very well, I think they could tell more about me from me being a student in the school and and their perception of me on a personal level.

To everyone that gave me advice, a massive thank you. As for the rest of you, please don't post unless it's helpful, I do believe it's against the rules. Also, get over yerselves, I haven't been given a permanent contract or anything so relax.

starre

edit - can see you're in Mayo.

Kohl

Fuinseog wrote: »

you cannot put a child out of the classroom. the gurrier has rights and they are well versed in them.

Are you 100% sure about that? I saw it happening a few times when I was in school. Maybe things have changed since the late 90's. hmmmm.

peanuthead

Kohl wrote: »

Are you 100% sure about that? I saw it happening a few times when I was in school. Maybe things have changed since the late 90's. hmmmm.

It is against health and safety protocol really.

You are responsible for the health and safety of your students while you are in the room with them. You are not supposed to let them leave the room at all really as if something happens to them while outside the room you are the one who will be held accountable for it.

Just like you are not supposed to leave the room with them in it.


However, from the point of view of competence alone - I am very much anti- putting a child outside my classroom. IMO you are giving a very clear message that you cannot deal with this student. And often times you are giving them exactly what they want - a chance to get out of the room and go for a wander around the school.

Fuinseog

Kohl wrote: »

Are you 100% sure about that? I saw it happening a few times when I was in school. Maybe things have changed since the late 90's. hmmmm.

things have changed and teachers still send them out. otherwise they would get no work done.
the dept says what the dept says, but they are not on the ground and have no practical solutions to any problems.

Fizzical

Fuinseog wrote: »

things have changed and teachers still send them out. otherwise they would get no work done.
the dept says what the dept says, but they are not on the ground and have no practical solutions to any problems.

Far simpler to have an agreement with another teacher and send them in there.

Fuinseog

Fizzical wrote: »

Far simpler to have an agreement with another teacher and send them in there.

works sometimes, hard though if the kid is ADD or what not. we have made education accessible to all, though some kids are not suited for mainstream classes.

evolving_doors

Fuinseog wrote: »

works sometimes, hard though if the kid is ADD or what not. we have made education accessible to all, though some kids are not suited for mainstream classes.

What type of students are not suited for mainstream?

Anyway, it seems that for the OP exclusion is not an option she's willing to take, otherwise she would have done it earlier.. probably at this stage of the game she'd have to send half the class out...

Fuinseog

Armelodie wrote: »

What type of students are not suited for mainstream?

Anyway, it seems that for the OP exclusion is not an option she's willing to take, otherwise she would have done it earlier.. probably at this stage of the game she'd have to send half the class out...

it may not be PC to say so, but if a pupil is taking all the teachers attention away from the rest of the class through their antics then they should not be in the class. we have replaced the interest of the majority with the interests of the individual.

personally if I were supervising a class and if a large number of pupils were unruly i would walk out and get the school management or a senior teacher. its too dangerous to remain in the class otherwise.

spurious

In our school, if someone is stopping the others from learning, or stopping the teacher from doing their work, they are sent home, to return with a parent.

If they continue, the parent will be asked to sit outside the classroom door, ready to be called into the classroom when their little darling tries their nonsense again. It generally takes only a couple of classes.

If the parent refuses, they can take their little darling home until they teach him how to behave like the other kids' parents have managed to. Zero tolerance of their nonsense and they (kids and parents) soon get the message.

delta_bravo

spurious wrote: »

In our school, if someone is stopping the others from learning, or stopping the teacher from doing their work, they are sent home, to return with a parent.

If they continue, the parent will be asked to sit outside the classroom door, ready to be called into the classroom when their little darling tries their nonsense again. It generally takes only a couple of classes.

If the parent refuses, they can take their little darling home until they teach him how to behave like the other kids' parents have managed to. Zero tolerance of their nonsense and they (kids and parents) soon get the message.

That sounds good. out of interest do the child and parent usually return?
I can only imagine how mortified they would be to have their mammy or daddy outside

Fuinseog

i love it, but very few principals are willing to do this.

amacca

Fuinseog wrote: »

i love it, but very few principals are willing to do this.

speaking as a former teacher..I think they should be and I think they should be prepared to do it early and often should the need arise.

hearing what goes on from the gf and remembering my own time (not that long ago at all) it does seem that the needs of the individual (troublesome - and not really the needs that will be beneficial to them long term) have been allowed supersede the needs of the majority to receive an uninterrupted education.

And if they are not willing because of not wanting to alienate parents/draw down their ire etc it should be put down as policy and taken out of their hands so they can do it on a "my hands are tied - the department/law/policy dictates etc" basis

sounds to me like a very effective solution to the majority of persistent misbehavior in classrooms that cant be gotten around by the usual means.

imo there are some things the teacher just cant solve especially given how their hands are increasingly tied (no bad thing in itself but some outside support for increasing bad behaviour in classrooms is needed imo)

Fuinseog

amacca wrote: »

speaking as a former teacher..I think they should be and I think they should be prepared to do it early and often should the need arise.

hearing what goes on from the gf and remembering my own time (not that long ago at all) it does seem that the needs of the individual (troublesome - and not really the needs that will be beneficial to them long term) have been allowed supersede the needs of the majority to receive an uninterrupted education.

And if they are not willing because of not wanting to alienate parents/draw down their ire etc it should be put down as policy and taken out of their hands so they can do it on a "my hands are tied - the department/law/policy dictates etc" basis

sounds to me like a very effective solution to the majority of persistent misbehavior in classrooms that cant be gotten around by the usual means.

imo there are some things the teacher just cant solve especially given how their hands are increasingly tied (no bad thing in itself but some outside support for increasing bad behaviour in classrooms is needed imo)

they should be, but they are not. the last thing a principal wants is agro from parents especially over a 'personality clash' (where the pupil is unruly but tells a different tale at home).

guidelines from the department of ed regarding discipline are unrealistic to a laughable extent. they do not want to know, the principal does not want to know and the teacher can sink or swim.