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IJK's EdT 2011

  • 23-11-2010 3:51am
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,317 ✭✭✭


    Right time to make my plans for 2011 and hopefully have a more healthy & successful year than 2010.

    I only have 2 main goals but they are big so I think they're enough.

    Goals:
    1. Etape du Tour (Acte 1) - Modane>Alpe d'Huez (11 July)
    2. Weight reduction - Currently 100kg, down to 88kg by 11 July

    Plan:
    1. I'm joining up to Swords CC this week so this should help with encouraging me to train.
    2. I'm getting my wife to get me a turbo trainer for christmas which should help as I work shift and always want to get even just an hour on the bike most days but I find it hard to fit in with the work schedule. Work is too far to travel to on a bike but if I can just jump on in the house I will.
    3. Start Pilates classes (see health)

    Health:
    1. Currently waiting for an MRI on my lower back for an injury sustained during work. Have a date for the end on Nov. Back is coming on well and hopefully should get the all clear after the MRI. Fed up taking anti-inflammatories. Start pilates classes as soon as I get a clear bill of health.
    2. Weight reduction. 6ft6 & 100kg at present and carrying a bit of a ned. I was down to 94kg earlier in the summer without watching my diet, so should be able to get down to 88kg (14stone). It will be required to get me up those french mountains :)
    I'm a very bad eater, I barely eat when on nightshift, then eat badly when I'm working days. I rarely eat breakfast, sometimes even skip lunch.
    I need to force myself into a routine, and am going to have to start bringing food to work rather than eating the crap from the canteen.

    Equipment:
    1. My bike, Giant FCR1 (converted to drops).
    2. Need spare rear wheel/tyre/cassette for turbo (buy 2nd hand).
    3. Turbo (Santy :) )
    4. 9 speed so will need to change out the cassette nearer the time, possibly a 12-27?

    Summary:
    So I think its achievable, its a bigger undertaking than anything I've done before. All my friends/family think I'm mad and I've no chance of doing this, but I actually like this as it gives me a reason to do it, I won't/don't give up.

    Any thoughts or suggestions?


Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 697 ✭✭✭biomed32


    hey there, i think you have the right idea and asides from family and friends (which I know are incredibly important) if you put your mind to it and have a plan of action in place, yu should succeed.

    on the food front, I do odd shifts as well in work and alway found my eating habits really bad particularly when i was in college too, i tended to eat a load of junk food and i rarely eat breakfast. (although admittidly, unless I go swimming or cycling breakfast is still a challange) I now do some rice and veg heading into work which i will eat on my break and i generally have soup and brown bread at home before i head to work.

    hope it helps and best of luck with it


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,317 ✭✭✭lafors


    Update 19th Dec:
    Got my MRI results, bulging disc between L4-L5. Not a clean bill of health but apparently it can be fixed by physiotherapy alone, luckily its not protruding into my nerves or I'd be in serious pain. Have physio booked for this week. Got a CD of the MRI from the place I had it done, looks cool :)
    Was sick for 2 weeks with bad throat infection, off work. Got weighed before MRI, 90kg, sweet :) Now just to keep it at that weight over christmas.

    Got a spare rear wheel for the turbo thanks to adverts, a Mavic Aksium. Got a 12-27 cassette too, will put it on the turbo wheel for now. Killed 2 tubes trying to fit the vittoria hometrainer tire....its bloody tight.

    The turbo is sitting there taunting me, I'm not allowed have it until christmas :rolleyes:
    All I need to get now is a yoga mat to put under the turbo & front wheel to try deaden some of the sound on the wooden floor upstairs. Might get a cheap fan too.

    Joined Swords CC (sent off the forms last week) and got a cycling ireland licence. Hopefully I get to go out on a few spins before I head to Israel for 10 weeks in middle of January......bringing the bike, the turbo wouldn't make it through customs!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,317 ✭✭✭lafors


    29th Dec

    Distance: 0km

    Santy was able to fit the turbo down the chimney....magic is great :D
    Assembled - check, yoga mat for under it - check, spare rear wheel - check, attach bike - check..........no poxy water for a shower BOOOO! And none for a few days it seems.

    Had my first physio session last week, back has been in ribbons all week :(
    Doing the stretches as required and have another session tonight.
    He seems to be fairly positive about being able to sort it out.
    Says I can go on the bike but only if I'm not sore and I've to stop as soon as I feel any slight irritation.

    Working on booking a chalet near the finish of the EDT, that means I can fly into grenoble with ryanair a few days before and be able to get a few practice spins up the hills.

    Anyone have a plan based on HR zones that I could use for starting up on the turbo? I'd expect I should be building up slowly, Z1/2/3 with a high cadence? I've been reading up on the zones and know my max HR from earlier in the year. Should I use my max HR from cycling last summer or one from the stress test I did? The reason I ask is the stress test HR was very high, 214, but I wasn't well at the time. From the last year I hit 204 regularly with one 209. So 209?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 995 ✭✭✭Ryder


    I used the 'Time Crunched Cyclist' by Chris Carmichael. Has all the training plans you need and the program only specifies 6 hours a week, so you can add in some core work (which I didnt and regret). Would also advise doing some 1hr rides at treshold pace to simulae the climbs whic may drag on for over an hour.

    The book tells you how to use an 8min test to calculate HR zones specific to his program.

    Lastly while weight is important I wouldnt get too hung up about it as an absolute measure of your fitness. Try an eat sensibly etc and along with your training you should reach a natural level.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,317 ✭✭✭lafors


    Physio going well but I'm more sore than before the physio....probably due to all these core strength exercises I've to do :)

    Just a couple of short sessions on the Turbo this week.

    Date| |Distance| | | |Cadence| | |Watts| | |HR| |Comment|
    |ETM|TRP|ODO|MAX (km/h)|AVS (km/h)|TRP|MAX|AVS|TRP|MAX|AVS|MAX|AVS|
    04/01/2011|00:31:40|14.2|14.2|41.8|26.8|2525|99|80|314|289|173|257|191|Turbo - light spin (HR monitor not correct)|
    08/01/2011|00:30:08|14.7|28.9|33.7|29.3|2573|96|86|332|227|192|248|215|Turbo - light spin
    I'm using a polar coded HR monitor but its out to lunch with its figures, not a clue why (I've wet the contacts, changed positions etc).
    The turbo is set at 100Watts which I still don't understand even after reading the manual. I understand I can change it but what does it do, increase resistance? If someone could explain it I would greatly appreciate it.

    Flying to Israel for 10 weeks on the 18th, taking the bike.
    Have some good routes from friends in work.....Ah the SUN :)

    Oh also does anyone have any good solutions for reducing the noise of the turbo on the floor?
    Its upstairs on a yoga mat on a wooden floor and its very loud...its not actually the turbo its the vibrations from it.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,505 ✭✭✭✭DirkVoodoo


    Is this a Tacx flow? If it is, when you use Ergo mode, you are setting how much power the brake unit will dissipate. Unfortunately it's far from perfect and requires a steady cadence (there is a little "brake" gauge on the display unit) otherwise it feels like you can't turn the cranks or else the wheel just slips against the brake. I would avoid using it and just use the standard mode and try to keep it as close to your desired power range as possible.

    It's not perfect, but it's handy. It's great for comparison between sessions, but I have been borrowing Nietzschean's powertap and finally got to see that, even when the turbo is "calibrated" the difference in power readings between the two systems can be as low as 20 and as high as 40 Watts in favour of the Flow.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,317 ✭✭✭lafors


    DirkVoodoo wrote: »
    Is this a Tacx flow? If it is, when you use Ergo mode, you are setting how much power the brake unit will dissipate. Unfortunately it's far from perfect and requires a steady cadence (there is a little "brake" gauge on the display unit) otherwise it feels like you can't turn the cranks or else the wheel just slips against the brake. I would avoid using it and just use the standard mode and try to keep it as close to your desired power range as possible.

    It's not perfect, but it's handy. It's great for comparison between sessions, but I have been borrowing Nietzschean's powertap and finally got to see that, even when the turbo is "calibrated" the difference in power readings between the two systems can be as low as 20 and as high as 40 Watts in favour of the Flow.

    Yep its the flow. Just read up on standard and ergo mode and you're right I'm using standard mode as the slope is selected (the one with the little mountain symbol).
    Think I need to get some solid training in before I start worrying about powertaps and FTP :)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,317 ✭✭✭lafors


    Another physio appointment today. Been very sore for the last week.
    Being sent to a specialist up in the sports clinic in Santry with expectation of getting a cortisone injection into my back OUCH! Physio is not happy with my recovery if you can even call it that.

    On a good note I got a loan of a bike bag for my trip just need to book it in when I get the flight confirmation from work.

    Also I've booked a chalet at the bottom of Alpe d'Huez :) Arriving on Wed 6th and leaving on 13th to do some travelling south.
    Just need to figure out how I'll get to Modane on the morning of the event :confused:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,317 ✭✭✭lafors


    Update 23 Jan:

    Arrived in Israel, cycling is mainly of the mountain biking type over here....they are crazy drivers so I can understand why.
    My apartment is right on the beach in Ashdod so I found a nice 4km loop that I could see being used for triathlons.
    Here's the map but no roads on it unfortunately :rolleyes:

    Ashdodloop.jpg

    So I did a recon yesterday, 7 laps of it (forgot to use the lap button on my garmin :o ). Was far too enthusiastic but the nice sunny 20C got the better of me ;)
    HR was very bad (and yes it was reading right!) but as I said I was overdoing it.

    I think I can add another 2-4 km onto the loop hopefully so I can make it a bit longer, about 7-8km total. Its too dangerous to go out onto the main roads unfortunately and the town has hundreds of roundabouts so this route will probably have to do for the time being.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,317 ✭✭✭lafors


    Well work is killing me, 374 hours in the last 28 days but the sooner I get the job done the sooner I can go home!

    No one is going to be spotting my boards gear here :(
    I've only managed to get out for short spins and only a few at that....
    The loop around ashdod is fine if I was in Ireland but its dangerous around the port up north with all the 40ft trucks. I probably went too close to rush hour too so a lot of traffic.

    Ashdod_loop.jpg

    And then I've gotten out for a few short spins along the seafront.
    Hopefully I can build up the distances when our hours reduce but I won't be getting any climbing in....unless I do the dead sea (ein bokek) up to arad. That is a serious climb in the heat/salt/humidity. Just over 30km and goes from -400m to 620m.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,317 ✭✭✭lafors


    Got out again this afternoon, 21C not a bad day ;)
    Though I'm a bit sandy as we've got sandstorms :)

    Got 50km solo in before it got dark.
    Been dehydrated lately so tried to drink plenty water with nuun. Still got bad cramps in my calfs, I'm wondering have my cleats got anything to do with it as I didn't feel dehydrated at any stage and drank 2.5L during the spin???

    Stats...
    Ashdod_laps.jpg
    Ashdod_laps_sta.jpg

    Definitely going to try do the climb out of the dead sea to arad. Will be interesting as the oxygen content in the air is higher down there (which is part of the reason why everyone feels great when they're there I suspect) so I'll have to make sure I don't burn myself out early on :)
    Don't think its as bad of a climb as anything in l'etape.

    Anyone have anything they'd recommend for opening up my nose for breathing? I've always had a problem where I can't breathe out of both sides of my nose at once, used to be a big problem when I ran cross country. I think this is not helping with my high HR. I've seen those strips but do they work or is it just a case of the old cake my jersey in vicks?? :confused:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,317 ✭✭✭lafors


    Well I got out for quite a mad spin today.
    I work with a scottish lad that some of you from Lucan may know/remember from when he used to race when he was in Ireland. He's a fitness freak, cycling mainly but does triathlons. He's been injured for a while and has a bit of a chest infection on him so I thought I'd survive.

    He said theres a few "hills" around Jerusalem we could do, 2hours he said.
    Beautiful day, until 30 mins in when we got hammered out of it by hailstones...in Israel :eek: I have welts on my arms and legs from them. We had no shelter.
    Cleared up after 20mins so we hit the first decent climb to 750m, very tough going for me I definitely dont have enough training under my belt to be doing these "hills" :rolleyes: It was tough but nothing I couldn't spin out and get up.
    Then we had a up & down descent to about 430m. Then back up again to 700m. I was starting to suffer bad on this one, Seb was doing hill intervals himself :) climbing like a rocket, coming back to me, climbing again :o
    The descent was superb, 690m to 222m in 7km, got up to 77.5km/h on a road with a speed limit of 60 :) I was spinning out obviously, think I'll be putting an 11 on my cassette.
    Then it struck, the infamous bonk, I was ruined, really really bad, we had no food between us and as its shabbat there were no shops open. I've never felt so sh1t on a bike. It was my own fault I left my bars behind. Lesson learnt.

    So a total of 67.24km with 1,342m climbing in 3hr24....slow, especially after dying at the end. My HR was an average of 187bpm, that virus/illness last year has left a lasting effect.
    It was a right kick up the arse, exactly what I needed. I'm wrecked after doing it but definitely glad I did it, some amazing scenery and saw a building with 5 gold domes...don't think it was the dome of the rock, but it looked amazing.

    Stats:
    JerusalemHills1.jpg
    JerusalemHills2.jpg


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,317 ✭✭✭lafors


    That's it I'm out. I've been told I can't cycle (or any other sport bar swimming) until I get to see the consultant for my back. I've also been told that the consultants waiting list is approx 3 months...complete joke imho. I was in a bit of pain after doing about 60km on Monday and I didn't realise that my stiff calves had anything to do with my back but the doc has said no more :( Not a happy camper obviously. I've paid for my travel & accommodation for the etape already :( We'll still go but as a holiday now. Gutted :(:(:(


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 995 ✭✭✭Ryder


    *not medical advice* have you seen a physio/bike fit specialist. Could some of your back issues be sorted by stretching/strengthening with a physio and getting a less aggressive bike position? obviously this only applies if something minor is wrong but it may be worth getting a second opinion from a physio anyway.

    even if you cant compete, the atmosphere around the etape/tour is fantastic and you can always oogle the bike expo and camp out on the mountain like a proper continental fan.


  • Administrators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 78,393 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Beasty


    I would echo part of what what Ryder is saying - try and get your GP to recommend a physio. I would only suggest a bike fitter if your physio recommends it (as bike fitters are not medically trained, and there is a risk they could do more harm than good). It's possible your GP is not sufficiently specialist in this area, and may be erring on the side of caution.

    The sooner you get this sorted the better though. I had 10 years of major back problems (although it's not been too bad for the past 8-9 years), and it was my physio who regularly got me back walking at more than a snail's pace.

    Hopefully it will quickly sort itself out


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,724 ✭✭✭kennyb3


    Im guessing as a swords member you are likely to be in north dublin. Go see this lady, i find her brilliant and she is taking care of my QL muscle problem at present.

    A 2nd opinion at least is advisable


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,317 ✭✭✭lafors


    Ryder wrote: »
    *not medical advice* have you seen a physio/bike fit specialist. Could some of your back issues be sorted by stretching/strengthening with a physio and getting a less aggressive bike position? obviously this only applies if something minor is wrong but it may be worth getting a second opinion from a physio anyway.

    even if you cant compete, the atmosphere around the etape/tour is fantastic and you can always oogle the bike expo and camp out on the mountain like a proper continental fan.
    Beasty wrote: »
    I would echo part of what what Ryder is saying - try and get your GP to recommend a physio. I would only suggest a bike fitter if your physio recommends it (as bike fitters are not medically trained, and there is a risk they could do more harm than good). It's possible your GP is not sufficiently specialist in this area, and may be erring on the side of caution.

    The sooner you get this sorted the better though. I had 10 years of major back problems (although it's not been too bad for the past 8-9 years), and it was my physio who regularly got me back walking at more than a snail's pace.

    Hopefully it will quickly sort itself out
    kennyb3 wrote: »
    Im guessing as a swords member you are likely to be in north dublin. Go see this lady, i find her brilliant and she is taking care of my QL muscle problem at present.

    A 2nd opinion at least is advisable

    Its not just a small problem unfortunately. I've a bulging disk between L4-L5 which is putting pressure on my nerve endings.
    I've been to the doctor then to the physio in Intel (where I injured myself) then back to my doctor, then for an MRI, then to my physio who's a very well respected sports physio. He wasn't happy that I wasn't responding to treatment so back to the doctor and now waiting on the consultant.

    PS I've had my bike fitted, I actually feel fine on the bike. It does get sore when I'm climbing but its the fact I'm sore after it.


  • Administrators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 78,393 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Beasty


    Ouch!!

    Having been through that on 4 different occasions, you have my sympathy. Hopefully the specialist will sort it out for you


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 607 ✭✭✭seve65


    lafors wrote: »
    That's it I'm out.

    sorry to hear that, sure at least you can over-indulge and have numeous bevvies whilst away now. Good luck anyway.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,724 ✭✭✭kennyb3


    Sorry to hear that. Didnt realise you were that far down the road with it. Hopefully you'll get it sorted


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  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 11,669 Mod ✭✭✭✭RobFowl


    lafors wrote: »
    Its not just a small problem unfortunately. I've a bulging disk between L4-L5 which is putting pressure on my nerve endings.
    I've been to the doctor then to the physio in Intel (where I injured myself) then back to my doctor, then for an MRI, then to my physio who's a very well respected sports physio. He wasn't happy that I wasn't responding to treatment so back to the doctor and now waiting on the consultant.

    PS I've had my bike fitted, I actually feel fine on the bike. It does get sore when I'm climbing but its the fact I'm sore after it.

    It sounds like you've approached this in exactly the right way.
    Good luck with the specialist.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,317 ✭✭✭lafors


    Thought I'd update this seeing as I have had a lot of treatment for my back at this stage, may be of interest to someone someday...

    Well when I had posted last I was waiting on a consultant who has a very good reputation with my type on injury. I got to see him soon after my last post (May) and he recommended that I get another MRI. He then suggested a steroid injection and undergo a series of physiotherapy.
    I eventually got that injection in July and had about 8 physio sessions. There was very little improvement in the physio's (and my opinion) so I contacted him again, wasn't impressed with the fact I had no contact from them after the injection. When I contacted him I received a letter stating that in his opinion the options were Physio/Pilates or surgery, and he wouldn't do the surgery. I obviously wasn't happy with this so I contacted his office again and asked about another steroid injection...the Dr. who did the initial injection in the Mater had said I may need a second injection as the first was a low dose.
    They scheduled me for another injection (Sept/Oct) and this time is was a larger injection. Again I had a series of physio sessions and while there was improvement this time, again my physio (and myself) felt the improvement wasn't what it should have been.

    We had been recommended a different consultant, in santry sports clinic, who also looked at alternatives to the usual Physio or surgery options.
    Got an appointment quickly enough, just after christmas and he was excellent. He asked what "I" wanted or expected out of treatment. We agreed that injections hadn't helped and physio/pilates etc. alone would not fix the issue. He also said he wouldn't like to do surgery but if in 12 months time I still had the issue he would be recommending a paring of the disc.

    He explained a new enough treatment where they use nucleoplasty to remove material from the nucleus of the damaged disc and then they fill the disc with Ozone (O3) gas. The trials of the treatment had a very high success rate with no side affects seen. I've read a few of the papers on the procedure and how the ozone works to repair the disc and was happy to go ahead with it.

    So I had the procedure done this week. It was under local anesthetic and the use fluoroscopy to guide them in real time with xrays. Had an epidural so it was more uncomfortable than painful. I'm on my back now for at least a few days, very sore but hopefully its worth it.

    The professor who did the surgery said they did the same procedure for the exact same injury on one of the italian olympic athletes just over 2 weeks ago and she was back training a couple of days ago with no symptoms of her original injury :eek: He has also seen a number of patients who were far worse than me and couldn't even walk and within 72 hours of the procedure they were back walking.
    He's obviously said that it will differ from person to person but he is very confident I will have a successful recovery.........

    So will be getting the bike serviced soon fingers crossed :D


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32 thebestone


    lafors wrote: »
    Thought I'd update this seeing as I have had a lot of treatment for my back at this stage, may be of interest to someone someday...

    Well when I had posted last I was waiting on a consultant who has a very good reputation with my type on injury. I got to see him soon after my last post (May) and he recommended that I get another MRI. He then suggested a steroid injection and undergo a series of physiotherapy.
    I eventually got that injection in July and had about 8 physio sessions. There was very little improvement in the physio's (and my opinion) so I contacted him again, wasn't impressed with the fact I had no contact from them after the injection. When I contacted him I received a letter stating that in his opinion the options were Physio/Pilates or surgery, and he wouldn't do the surgery. I obviously wasn't happy with this so I contacted his office again and asked about another steroid injection...the Dr. who did the initial injection in the Mater had said I may need a second injection as the first was a low dose.
    They scheduled me for another injection (Sept/Oct) and this time is was a larger injection. Again I had a series of physio sessions and while there was improvement this time, again my physio (and myself) felt the improvement wasn't what it should have been.

    We had been recommended a different consultant, in santry sports clinic, who also looked at alternatives to the usual Physio or surgery options.
    Got an appointment quickly enough, just after christmas and he was excellent. He asked what "I" wanted or expected out of treatment. We agreed that injections hadn't helped and physio/pilates etc. alone would not fix the issue. He also said he wouldn't like to do surgery but if in 12 months time I still had the issue he would be recommending a paring of the disc.

    He explained a new enough treatment where they use nucleoplasty to remove material from the nucleus of the damaged disc and then they fill the disc with Ozone (O3) gas. The trials of the treatment had a very high success rate with no side affects seen. I've read a few of the papers on the procedure and how the ozone works to repair the disc and was happy to go ahead with it.

    So I had the procedure done this week. It was under local anesthetic and the use fluoroscopy to guide them in real time with xrays. Had an epidural so it was more uncomfortable than painful. I'm on my back now for at least a few days, very sore but hopefully its worth it.

    The professor who did the surgery said they did the same procedure for the exact same injury on one of the italian olympic athletes just over 2 weeks ago and she was back training a couple of days ago with no symptoms of her original injury :eek: He has also seen a number of patients who were far worse than me and couldn't even walk and within 72 hours of the procedure they were back walking.
    He's obviously said that it will differ from person to person but he is very confident I will have a successful recovery.........

    So will be getting the bike serviced soon fingers crossed :D
    I would be very interested in an update on your progress since the nucleoplasty? hoping its all positive.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,317 ✭✭✭lafors


    thebestone wrote: »
    I would be very interested in an update on your progress since the nucleoplasty? hoping its all positive.

    I had it done in January. I was sore for a few weeks after but that was probably due to the fact I had another operation 4 days after this one... glutton for punishment!
    Initially the pain had returned to the same level as it was when I injured it originally. It did recede slightly but didn't get any better. I met my consultant for a review about 8 weeks after the op. Unfortunately for me it didn't work. If I remember correctly it was approx. 80% success rate.
    So now I'm back to intense physio. The only other option would be full on surgery and they don't want to do that, either do I.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32 thebestone


    lafors wrote: »
    I had it done in January. I was sore for a few weeks after but that was probably due to the fact I had another operation 4 days after this one... glutton for punishment!
    Initially the pain had returned to the same level as it was when I injured it originally. It did recede slightly but didn't get any better. I met my consultant for a review about 8 weeks after the op. Unfortunately for me it didn't work. If I remember correctly it was approx. 80% success rate.
    So now I'm back to intense physio. The only other option would be full on surgery and they don't want to do that, either do I.
    It seems to be 80% sucess with all back procedures and surgery. not good it you fall into the 20%!! have you been able to go back to cycling? i had microdisc l3-4 and l4-5 last year and now back to where i was before surgery - the same discs have re herniated. i dont know where to turn.


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