"Temporary closure of M4 will cause chaos"

colm1982

NRA proposes to close the M4 between Junction 8 (Kilcock) and Junction 5 (Leixlip) from 16 December to 22 December and from 10 January to the 16 January between the hours of 8pm to 9am daily and to divert all traffic through Kilcock, Maynooth and Leixlip in order to facilitate the erection of Portal Gantries.

http://www.kildare.ie/community/CatherineMurphy/2010/11/temporary_closure_of_m4_will_c.html

Chris_5339762

8pm to 9am is crazy. Should be 10pm to 6am, then its fine.

foggy_lad

Chris_5339762 wrote: »

8pm to 9am is crazy. Should be 10pm to 6am, then its fine.

this should be postponed until the new year to avoid problems over the Christmas period. seems a typical Kildare County Council descision, completey mad just like them resurfacing the main road in Castledermot a few weeks before last Christmas!

CIE

Now what do they need these gantries for?

icdg

colm1982 wrote: »

NRA proposes to close the M4 between Junction 8 (Kilcock) and Junction 5 (Leixlip) from 16 December to 22 December and from 10 January to the 16 January between the hours of 8pm to 9am daily and to divert all traffic through Kilcock, Maynooth and Leixlip in order to facilitate the erection of Portal Gantries.

http://www.kildare.ie/community/CatherineMurphy/2010/11/temporary_closure_of_m4_will_c.html

Why do they need to close the entire Leixlip-Kilcock section in one go? There are two intermediate junctions on this route.

In fact, why do they need to erect gantries on this section at all? Its a D2M with simple diamond junctions all of which are with R-roads, gantries aren't necessary and would appear extravagant. Its also only been very recently re-signed with Next Exit and new ADSs (some of which are nearly identical to the ones they replaced).

Cookie_Monster

toll gantries / speed gantries

:eek:

Redsoxfan

icdg wrote: »

In fact, why do they need to erect gantries on this section at all? Its a D2M with simple diamond junctions all of which are with R-roads, gantries aren't necessary and would appear extravagant. Its also only been very recently re-signed with Next Exit and new ADSs (some of which are nearly identical to the ones they replaced).

The closure times are indeed a farce, anyone interested has until 5pm on November 24th to make their views known to KCC.

I'm also curious why they are going to such lengths to replace recently erected signs.

Apparently the NRA told a local councillor " it was safety issue to ensure that cars did not stop at exits off the motorway....the new signs are in the interest of consistency" (I'm quoting from an e-mail received from the councillor in response to my query)

My main issues with the signs on the M4 are this-pick one language and use it. Having every location in both English and Irish leads to too much clutter. I don't really care which language they use, English would obviously make more sense, but I'd choose Irish if just for a quiet life.

L1011

They put the closure notice in a paper that nearly nobody this end of the county reads too (the Leader).

Redsoxfan - I believe there is no legal basis to use only one language on signs outside of a Gaeltacht.

Redsoxfan

MYOB wrote: »

Redsoxfan - I believe there is no legal basis to use only one language on signs outside of a Gaeltacht.

Is that a long established law or something that was thought up recently I wonder?

Buffman

I posted this elsewhere but it's relevant here aswell.

From Meath CoCo

Temporary Road Closure: M4 Motorway between Westbound between Junction 9 (Enfield) and Junction 10 (Kinnegad) - 16th to the 22nd of December 2010, between the hours of 22.00 – 06.00 each night
Date Released: 26 October 2010
Meath County Council
Temporary Closure of Roads
Section 75 Roads Act, 1993(Roads Regulations 1994)
Notice is hereby given that Meath County Council intends to partially close the M4 motorway Westbound between Junction 9 (Enfield) and Junction 10 (Kinnegad).
Reason for Closure:
The road closure is necessary to facilitate the erection of Portal Gantries from Junction 10 (Kinnegad) and is requested by the National Roads Authority (NRA).
Duration:
It is proposed to close the road on the 16th to the 22nd of December 2010, between the hours of 22.00 – 06.00.
Alternative Routes:
Alternative diversion routes will be in place via the R148.
Note: Diversion signs will be in place.
Submissions and observations to the proposed temporaryroad closures should be made in writing to the:
The Area Administrator,
Trim Electoral Area,
Mornington House,
Summerhill Rd,
Trim on or before the 19th November 2010

Redsoxfan

So, Meath CC have the sense to re-open the M4 at 6am (and don't close it until 10pm).

I'll add this fact to my letter.

CIE

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

toll gantries / speed gantries

:eek:

Ah...an Deartháir Mór.

L1011

Redsoxfan wrote: »

Is that a long established law or something that was thought up recently I wonder?

The rules for road signs (1970s) as updated by the official languages act (2005?). Basically you can use irish-only for irish only speaking places, indeed have to; and otherwise have to use both for the signs to meet the rules.

icdg

MYOB wrote: »

The rules for road signs (1970s) as updated by the official languages act (2005?). Basically you can use irish-only for irish only speaking places, indeed have to; and otherwise have to use both for the signs to meet the rules.

OT but strictly speaking the Official Langauges Act doesn't affect road signs at all, indeed they are specifically excluded from the operation of the Act by Regulation 3(3) of the Official Languages Act 2003 (Section 9) Regulations 2008

What happened when the Act was enacted was that the Irish placenames of towns in the Gaeltacht became the only official versions of the placenames. As a result, some councils in counties with Gaeltachts somehow felt they were under an obligation to go around and obliterate the English versions from signage, sometimes very messily patching them over. In Kerry the locals took matters into their own hands and spraypainted "Dingle" back onto signs where it was patched over.

Bilingual signage has been used since 1926 and isn't really likely to stop now.

As for the M4, if they must go ahead with this (which is crazy, the road does not need gantries!) they could at least reopen at 6:00am

Carawaystick

Why are the nra closing the road? surely the operators of the road should be doing this???

What do I pay them for?

Are users gonna be charged the full whack to only drive a part of the tolled section?

L1011

Carawaystick wrote: »

Why are the nra closing the road? surely the operators of the road should be doing this???

What do I pay them for?

Are users gonna be charged the full whack to only drive a part of the tolled section?

The KCC road order is to close the free section, though... the MCC one covers the toll section.

I'd also imagine that the NRA deciding to change signage standards doesn't come under what the toll operator has to do.

Run_to_da_hills

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

toll gantries / speed gantries

:eek:

ANPR tracking.

markpb

Carawaystick wrote: »

Why are the nra closing the road? surely the operators of the road should be doing this???

Private contractors presumably can't apply for a road closure order, only the NRA or LA can do that.

Rawr

Routing all of the west-bound M4 traffic via the old N4?

That idea brings back some nostalgic memories of when Leixlip used to have the main Galway road running right through it. It may be interesting to see what might happen during the weekend nights, when clouds of drunkards exit Leixlip's Ozone nightclub and float around Main Street and the Rye River bridge (both part of old N4)

I also find it curious that the whole stretch of the M4 has to be closed for this. Given the numerous exits available, surely they can do this in stages?

KevR

I could be completely mistaken (and someone please correct me if I am!) but weren't they able to erect gantries on the M50 and possibly also the Lucan BP with just rolling closures??

Cookie_Monster

Indeed, why can they not use the crossovers to keep traffic running with contra flows?

CIE

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

KevR wrote: »

I could be completely mistaken (and someone please correct me if I am!) but weren't they able to erect gantries on the M50 and possibly also the Lucan BP with just rolling closures?

Indeed, why can they not use the crossovers to keep traffic running with contra flows?

That's how they do it in much of the rest of the world. So why is it that the transport ministries in Ireland have to insist on doing things "bass-ackwards"? (rather like their policies on rail transport?)

coolabula

Why close this busy road until 9am it just doesn't make sense and who had the bright idea to close it the week before Xmas and the week the kids go back to school????
As if the traffic won't be bad enough
I sent an email today for what it's worth

L1011

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Indeed, why can they not use the crossovers to keep traffic running with contra flows?

They've retrofitted wire catch barriers since construction which mean that this requires detensioning a huge section of barrier and taking down the poles and reinstating all of it after.

Would mean the outside lane closed for days and days.

Cookie_Monster

MYOB wrote: »

They've retrofitted wire catch barriers since construction which mean that this requires detensioning a huge section of barrier and taking down the poles and reinstating all of it after.

Would mean the outside lane closed for days and days.

:rolleyes: More fabulous planning and future proofing

Davidth88

This is clear madness , I and a number of people have sent e-mails to KCC.

All have recvd the same reply

If this goes ahead , basically the whole of North Kildare will be at a standstill each morning until 10am.

Dear Davidth88

I refer to your email of 22nd November and note your comments regarding the proposed closure of the M4.

Please note that this matter is under review and I will revert to you later this week with an update in relation to this situation.

Regards etc .....

colm1982

Quoting from local cllr. :


Good news announced yesterday.

The NRA and Kildare County Council have confirmed that the M4 will be open from 5am during the closure and NOT FROM 9am as advertised.

They also stated that the closure is weather related i.e if there is good weather (not windy--cranes being used) that the closure could last around 3 nights. And that the closure will be eastbound one night and westbound the next night.

According to the Council the money has to be spent this year, hence the closure before Christmas. There is a meeting of The Council, the NRA, Gardai and the Ambulance Service today to discuss the plan.

amacachi

MYOB wrote: »

They've retrofitted wire catch barriers since construction which mean that this requires detensioning a huge section of barrier and taking down the poles and reinstating all of it after.

Would mean the outside lane closed for days and days.

Really? I've noticed bits and pieces of that wire being messed up on the M1 and being fixed overnight with no delay. Also around most of the crossover there's separate short sections of the high-tension wire just covering the gaps.

Winger_PL

Just got this now:

Dear Sir or Madam,

I refer to our earlier correspondence.

I wish to inform you that a meeting has taken place between Kildare County Council, the NRA, their contractor and An Garda Siochana and a decision has been made to defer the completion of the works on the M4 until early in the New Year.

Your comments regarding the duration of the closure have been noted and every effort will be made to minimise any possible disruption when the works are ongoing.

Please note that a revised Notice of Intention will be advertised in the local press (Leinster Leader and Liffey Champion) shortly.

Regards

Michael O'Leary
A/Director of Services
Transportation & Public Safety
Kildare County Council

L1011

amacachi wrote: »

Really? I've noticed bits and pieces of that wire being messed up on the M1 and being fixed overnight with no delay. Also around most of the crossover there's separate short sections of the high-tension wire just covering the gaps.

Some bits of the M1 were built with it; the M4 is entirely retro-fitted.

Sections of the wire which are damaged on it have been left damaged for months if not years; same as on the N20 and N2...

Got the same email as above on the Labour distlist,

amacachi

MYOB wrote: »

Some bits of the M1 were built with it; the M4 is entirely retro-fitted.

Sections of the wire which are damaged on it have been left damaged for months if not years; same as on the N20 and N2...

Got the same email as above on the Labour distlist,

The only bit of the M1 that wasn't retrofitted that I know of was the Dundalk Bypass, I travel the road daily and they did the entire run over the course of a couple of weeks.

L1011

Hrm. I don't remember seeing the work on the M4 but you can't see any seperate wire sections for the crossover points anyway.

amacachi

MYOB wrote: »

Hrm. I don't remember seeing the work on the M4 but you can't see any seperate wire sections for the crossover points anyway.

Along the M1 the seperate little sections of wires were put in around the Armco barriers around the bridges and were put in the crossover areas to replace the little bollards they hard "preventing" cars going the wrong way. :pac: If I'm awake on the way home today I'll check how many have the shorter sections.

L1011

On the M4 they usually change sections at overbridges too. There's only one crossover point between each junction on the 1993 section also IIRC.

foggy_lad

Dear Sir or Madam,

I refer to our earlier correspondence.

I wish to inform you that a meeting has taken place between Kildare County Council, the NRA, their contractor and An Garda Siochana and a decision has been made to defer the completion of the works on the M4 until early in the New Year.

Your comments regarding the duration of the closure have been noted and every effort will be made to minimise any possible disruption when the works are ongoing.

Please note that a revised Notice of Intention will be advertised in the local press (Leinster Leader and Liffey Champion) shortly.

Regards

Michael O'Leary
A/Director of Services
Transportation & Public Safety
Kildare County Council

A great result! This work will have far less impact on the public after the Christmas when there is no Christmas traffic.

The question now is why nobody within the NRA or County Council, An Garda Siochana or the contractors could see the chaos these works would cause, are they all that incompetant?