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Dundrum/Rathfarnham Bus Routes - Revised 14/a

  • 22-11-2010 2:41pm
    #1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 590 ✭✭✭


    Hi All,

    From the info ive garned off the rumour mill and this forum it would appear Dublin Bus are planning to merge the 14/20b, cut the 48a/14a and amalgamate the 16/a into one single route serving Balinteer under ''Network Direct''.

    I have long awaited some sort of change in my locality...especialy with regard to the 14/14a. Though im exremly lucky and fortunate enough to live smack bang in the middle within a 15 minute catchment walk of the 16/16a/48a...(or the luas/44/15b if feel like a half hour stroll!), the 14/a is the bus that happens to stop directly outside my estate, and for some people esp. on the unique sections of these routes its their only option for where the luas is too far out of reach/mobility problems/the disabled and the elderly etc.

    However, I find that while its reliable in the morning for getting into town, coming home is another matter all together. Despite the fact I wait on O'Connel st for the outbound trip, aprox 2 mins from the Parnell Sq. terminus, I have all but found with fustration esp. in the last month that evening buses generaly tend to not show up on their advertised times, or ten minutes later then advertised, or not at all. Its a bit of a gamble really.

    Do I take a 16/16a/48a, have a 40-45 minute bus journey through the most congested parts of town, and then walk the 12 mins to my house? Or chance getting on a 14/a and bieng there in 20-25 mins with a 2 min walk at the end to the front door? I dont know if its the same for other boards users who live in this area but despite having 3 buses advertised per hour bewtween them at peak times during the day (ie leaving every 20 mins from Dundrum), the 14 / a 's frequently do not stick to advertised times (im thinking of the 2.50 one in praticular, which has a habit of disappering and making me late for work :rolleyes:). Ive heard my grandparents remark that it used to be one of the most reliable routes in Dublin before it was extended to the Luas terminus and the timetable cut! Rather then working around the idea of linking up the 48a/14's with the luas as a major transport 'interchange' or something to that affect, Dublin bus went the complete oppisite and cut services. I understand some of this is supply and demand but nevertheless I feel it was done in a bit of a haste without much forward planning.

    The advertised evening timetable is praticularly appauling with buses leaving at 50 mins and then on the hour, with nothing for another 40-50 mins :confused:.

    I hope that the Network direct review does something to sort out the 14/14a's. Ill be sad to see the 16a go, as for what DB will do to replace it at Nutgrove is another matter (hope its a revised 17...*shudders*), as the 48a, it was reliable and I can count on my fingers the number of times it been late showing up.

    Any thoughts on how ND will benifit and/or prove detrimental long fustrated users of this troubled 14/14a route? Will the new 20b to dundrum be advertised as ''about'' every 20 mins or will we have a 46a like service (I aint holding my breath!) :)


Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,316 ✭✭✭KC61


    The suggestion that I have heard is that the new combined route 14/20b will follow the existing 14a route as far as Upper Rathmines, and then go either via Highfield Road or Orwell Park and then follow the existing 14 route to Dundrum.

    By doing that it would still give a decent service to Upper Rathmines (the 128 is down for a merger with the 15), and the areas of Rathgar and Churchtown served by the 14.

    I would expect the existing combined 14/14a service level to be maintained in whatever timetable is prepared in 2011, given that the 48a is being chopped completely.

    The 14/a are routes that I use a fair bit in the peak hours, and at weekends, and I do generally find them reliable - it would be hard not to be given the very generous running times that they have. I'm at work during the day so can't really comment on that specific departure. You are quite correct about the evening service pattern - unfortunately it would appear that the scheduler looked at the two timetables in isolation rather than combined.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,905 ✭✭✭Aard


    As long as they avoid the road beside Milltown Golf Club into Churchtown.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 78,577 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    Why not wait on D'Olier street, where the 14/a and the 16/a use the same stop?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,316 ✭✭✭KC61


    Absolutely - that would be pointless. The main market for the 14 in Churchtown is Braemor Road/Braemor Park.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 188 ✭✭Heart


    Victor wrote: »
    Why not wait on D'Olier street, where the 14/a and the 16/a use the same stop?

    The 14/a, 16/a & 48a share the same stop in O'Connell Street too.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,404 ✭✭✭dogmatix


    They are dumping the 48A? A bit sad about that, from a nostalgic point of view - that was the only bus into town for years from Ballinteer. In fact the only bus until the 75 started running down Ballinteer avenue. I think the 48A's days where always going to be numbered once the Luas started up and they started routing the 14/a through Ballinteer.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 15,721 Mod ✭✭✭✭dfx-


    I've always found the evening departures outbound to be reliable, if unpredictable based on demand. It could take 30 seconds to D'Olier St or 5 minutes...

    The situation of departures inbound like 2000, 2050, 2100, 2140 is ridiculous though. Usually there happens to be a 75 in front of the departures too, so 3 buses in 10 minutes.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,463 ✭✭✭CIE


    KC61 wrote: »
    The suggestion that I have heard is that the new combined route 14/20b will follow the existing 14a route as far as Upper Rathmines, and then go either via Highfield Road or Orwell Park and then follow the existing 14 route to Dundrum.

    By doing that it would still give a decent service to Upper Rathmines (the 128 is down for a merger with the 15), and the areas of Rathgar and Churchtown served by the 14.

    I would expect the existing combined 14/14a service level to be maintained in whatever timetable is prepared in 2011, given that the 48a is being chopped completely.

    The 14/a are routes that I use a fair bit in the peak hours, and at weekends, and I do generally find them reliable - it would be hard not to be given the very generous running times that they have. I'm at work during the day so can't really comment on that specific departure. You are quite correct about the evening service pattern - unfortunately it would appear that the scheduler looked at the two timetables in isolation rather than combined.
    So what happens to service via Dartry Road and Lower Churchtown Road? Is it eliminated? Gotta walk to the Luas?

    I really dislike the notion of reducing/eliminating parallel bus service to the Luas simply as an attempt to induce ridership on the light rail. Public transport is about choices, not about being bumped from one mode to another.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,316 ✭✭✭KC61


    CIE wrote: »
    So what happens to service via Dartry Road and Lower Churchtown Road? Is it eliminated? Gotta walk to the Luas?

    I really dislike the notion of reducing/eliminating parallel bus service to the Luas simply as an attempt to induce ridership on the light rail. Public transport is about choices, not about being bumped from one mode to another.

    I will ask the question that I posed elsewhere again. How often do you use public transport in Ireland?

    As a regular 14a user I can tell you that virtually no-one uses the bus on that stretch of road whereas the 14 gets far more people on Braemor Road.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,316 ✭✭✭KC61


    dfx- wrote: »
    I've always found the evening departures outbound to be reliable, if unpredictable based on demand. It could take 30 seconds to D'Olier St or 5 minutes...

    The situation of departures inbound like 2000, 2050, 2100, 2140 is ridiculous though. Usually there happens to be a 75 in front of the departures too, so 3 buses in 10 minutes.

    I would agree - I've never really had any reliability problems with any of the 14, 14a or 48a.

    As for the weekday late evening timetable - it is nuts - but if you look at the individual timetables you will see neat 50 minute gaps - the problem is that the scheduler obvviously never checked the combined timetable when compiling it and nor did anyone else.

    That hopefully will be eradicated when there is just a single route.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,316 ✭✭✭KC61


    dogmatix wrote: »
    They are dumping the 48A? A bit sad about that, from a nostalgic point of view - that was the only bus into town for years from Ballinteer. In fact the only bus until the 75 started running down Ballinteer avenue. I think the 48A's days where always going to be numbered once the Luas started up and they started routing the 14/a through Ballinteer.

    Realistically could anyone expect it to survive? While in the mornings there might be 30 people on the peak departure from Ballinteer, in the evenings it's usually less than 10 on an evening peak outbound service.

    The 44 will cover the Ranelagh-Dundrum section which ought to be more than sufficient.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 590 ✭✭✭SparkyTech


    dogmatix wrote: »
    They are dumping the 48A? A bit sad about that, from a nostalgic point of view - that was the only bus into town for years from Ballinteer. In fact the only bus until the 75 started running down Ballinteer avenue. I think the 48A's days where always going to be numbered once the Luas started up and they started routing the 14/a through Ballinteer.

    Im suprised DB couldn't view it as a potential cross city route and combine it with some other low frequency service that runs over the northside. I thought the point of ND was to connect more areas by combining bus routes, rather then chopping services in their entirety? (though I can see why the 48a is bieng scrapped because of luas and exsting services although this might have been a viable ption to keep it running, albiet even with a different number and destination?)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,316 ✭✭✭KC61


    SparkyTech wrote: »
    Im suprised DB couldn't view it as a potential cross city route and combine it with some other low frequency service that runs over the northside. I thought the point of ND was to connect more areas by combining bus routes, rather then chopping services in their entirety? (though I can see why the 48a is bieng scrapped because of luas and exsting services although this might have been a viable ption to keep it running, albiet even with a different number and destination?)

    Be realistic - virtually no one uses it - there are rarely numbers in double figures on board.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,905 ✭✭✭Aard


    Aard wrote: »
    As long as they avoid the road beside Milltown Golf Club into Churchtown.
    Just to clarify, the road I mean is Churchtown Road Lower. The bus can often take 15 minutes to make it down that road in the evening.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,316 ✭✭✭KC61


    Aard wrote: »
    Just to clarify, the road I mean is Churchtown Road Lower. The bus can often take 15 minutes to make it down that road in the evening.

    As I said above, the plan as I understand it is that all buses will serve Braemor Road and Braemor Park thus avoiding Lower Churchtown Road.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,905 ✭✭✭Aard


    Thanks; confusion on my part.


    This new 14 service is looking good.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 590 ✭✭✭SparkyTech


    I emailed Dublin Bus regarding the implementation date and received the following response:

    ''Changes in this area are due in Spring 2011. Consultation will take place prior to any changes being implemented.''

    Was hoping they may have implemented the changes before the new year but I guess another 2-3 months is worth the wait!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,316 ✭✭✭KC61


    They've got to review the changes elsewhere that they've made already first!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,463 ✭✭✭CIE


    KC61 wrote: »
    I will ask the question that I posed elsewhere again. How often do you use public transport in Ireland?

    As a regular 14a user I can tell you that virtually no-one uses the bus on that stretch of road whereas the 14 gets far more people on Braemor Road.
    "Regular 14A users" won't ride every trip on the bus. And "virtually" is a meaningless word, especially in light of the 14A serving more than Lower Churchtown Road; perhaps the point is not that every bus has to make every stop? and perhaps the average speed of the 14A is better than the 14 due to running via Lower Churchtown Road? Amazing how a road that used to have four bus routes is going to be down to none. Now I have to ask you what purpose you use public transport for? because it doesn't seem to be for commuting.

    And as for the 48A, it's difficult to use a service that runs every 40 minutes, that was cut down from a far more frequent service in the past. Continuing to terminate at Dundrum Luas is going to affect the new 14's reliability, combined with the new northside service.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,316 ✭✭✭KC61


    CIE wrote: »
    "Regular 14A users" won't ride every trip on the bus. And "virtually" is a meaningless word, especially in light of the 14A serving more than Lower Churchtown Road; perhaps the point is not that every bus has to make every stop? and perhaps the average speed of the 14A is better than the 14 due to running via Lower Churchtown Road? Amazing how a road that used to have four bus routes is going to be down to none. Now I have to ask you what purpose you use public transport for? because it doesn't seem to be for commuting.

    And as for the 48A, it's difficult to use a service that runs every 40 minutes, that was cut down from a far more frequent service in the past. Continuing to terminate at Dundrum Luas is going to affect the new 14's reliability, combined with the new northside service.

    I am a frequent user of the 14, 14a and 48a - virtually every day of the week and yes I do commute - my hours can vary so I do get to see the bus routes at different times of the day. More wrong assumptions on your part about me.

    The fact is that the 14a and 48a both lost significant numbers to LUAS.

    The only departures on the 48a that gets any remotely decent loadings often only to Dundrum - and even then there are plenty of twin seats empty - are the 0720 and 0800 ex-Ballinteer. That's it. The rest tend to generally have less than 15 people on board. That is unsustainable. It is also monumentally slow in the peak hour from Dundrum to the city in either direction. The 44 will provide an adequate service for those that need it between the city and Dundrum via Ranelagh.

    The 14a is faster than the 14 in the off-peak (in peak Lower Churchtown Road is one long traffic jam) as it tends not to stop anywhere between Beaumont Avenue and Upper Rathmines Road. Now should that perpetuate or give the areas where people acutally use the bus - i.e along the 14 routing?

    There is no economic sense in leaving it as it is.

    How will leaving the 14 terminus at Dundrum affect reliability?

    We as a nation are virtually bankrupt and frankly running buses for the sake of running them has got to stop.

    You keep failing the question that I have posed several times - how often do you use public transport in Ireland? I ask it as a genuine question.

    When was the last time you used any of these bus routes?


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,463 ✭✭✭CIE


    KC61 wrote: »
    I am a frequent user of the 14, 14a and 48a - virtually every day of the week and yes I commute - my hours can vary so I do get to see the bus routes at different times of the day. More wrong assumptions on your part about me
    Those are some wildly varying hours.
    The fact is that the 14a and 48a both lost significant numbers to LUAS
    How is that a fact? That would make the Luas a failure, assuming it is a fact.
    The only departures on the 48a that gets any remotely decent loadings - and even then there are plenty of twin seats empty - are the 0720 and 0800 ex-Ballinteer. That's it. The rest tend to generally have less than 10 people on board. That is unsustainable
    Caused by what? Reduction in service (making it unreliable) or turning the 14/A into "competing" routes along the same corridor with higher frequency of service?

    This is a similar rationale that BAC used to "justify" removal of route 8 in Dalkey. The 59 is suddenly the dominant bus route along a corridor it never traditionally served (Breffni Road and Ulverton Road) while the 8 is reduced in service and then scrapped. The other "reason" had to do with the DART service, even though there has been continuous railway service through Dalkey for years and frequent service on the 8 was justifiable back then too. Moving passengers (supposedly) from one public transport mode to another is no success of public transport, and it is a knuckling under to a policy of car-based transport dominance.
    The 14a is faster than the 14 (at outside of the school run and evening peak when Lower Churchtown Road is one long traffic jam) as it tends not to stop anywhere between Beaumont Avenue and Upper Rathmines Road. Now should that perpetuate or give the areas where people acutally use the bus - i.e along the 14 routing?

    There is no economic sense in leaving it as it is
    Why is Lower Churchtown Road "one long traffic jam" when Dundrum Road has been widened and the better way to get to Churchtown by road is via that artery and Upper Churchtown Road consequently? This is another admission of public transport failure, when a corridor is cited as "one long traffic jam" (obvious demand for this corridor by car, interesting) and the bus has to surrender although it has served that corridor for decades, never mind the fact that the roads authority is not even budging to alleviate the pressure on this corridor.

    If the 14A remains the faster journey between Meadow Grove and the city, then that's no failure of the route.
    How will leaving the 14 terminus at Dundrum affect reliability?
    Longer routes are less reliable. It seems like DB has unlearned its past errors.
    We as a nation are virtually bankrupt and frankly running buses for the sake of running them has got to stop.

    You keep failing the question that I have posed several times - how often do you use public transport in Ireland? I ask it as a genuine question.


    When was the last time you used any of these bus routes?
    I'm not answering a question like that if you won't answer the bigger questions.

    And by your own admission, you use the 14A frequently, and did not mention the 14 or a preference for using it. And if Braemor Road is the bigger market in that particular segment of town, where does that leave passengers coming from Meadow Grove or Broadford Walk, but with a slower ride with more frequent stops once you get north of the Beaumont Avenue junction? Arguing in this vein vis-à-vis the 14 makes it look like the 14's journey needs to end at Braemor Road as in the past, or at least continue running via its current route (including Rathgar Road instead of Highfield Park and Upper Rathmines Road) and terminating in Churchtown instead of continuing on to Ballinteer and going to Dundrum the long way.

    As for "running buses for the sake of running them", I remind the board of the CitySwift and City Imp debacles. Network Destruct looks too much like a return to the former, which ended up with drastic reductions in services. A "bankrupt nation" (reasons for that not germane for discussion on this particular forum) can't afford to run bus services less reliably either, because that will be more expensive in the long run to the exchequer.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,316 ✭✭✭KC61


    CIE wrote: »
    Those are some wildly varying hours.How is that a fact? That would make the Luas a failure, assuming it is a fact.Caused by what? Reduction in service (making it unreliable) or turning the 14/A into "competing" routes along the same corridor with higher frequency of service?

    This is a similar rationale that BAC used to "justify" removal of route 8 in Dalkey. The 59 is suddenly the dominant bus route along a corridor it never traditionally served (Breffni Road and Ulverton Road) while the 8 is reduced in service and then scrapped. The other "reason" had to do with the DART service, even though there has been continuous railway service through Dalkey for years and frequent service on the 8 was justifiable back then too. Moving passengers (supposedly) from one public transport mode to another is no success of public transport, and it is a knuckling under to a policy of car-based transport dominance.Why is Lower Churchtown Road "one long traffic jam" when Dundrum Road has been widened and the better way to get to Churchtown by road is via that artery and Upper Churchtown Road consequently? This is another admission of public transport failure, when a corridor is cited as "one long traffic jam" (obvious demand for this corridor by car, interesting) and the bus has to surrender although it has served that corridor for decades, never mind the fact that the roads authority is not even budging to alleviate the pressure on this corridor.

    If the 14A remains the faster journey between Meadow Grove and the city, then that's no failure of the route.[/I]Longer routes are less reliable. It seems like DB has unlearned its past errors.I'm not answering a question like that if you won't answer the bigger questions.

    And by your own admission, you use the 14A frequently, and did not mention the 14 or a preference for using it. And if Braemor Road is the bigger market in that particular segment of town, where does that leave passengers coming from Meadow Grove or Broadford Walk, but with a slower ride with more frequent stops once you get north of the Beaumont Avenue junction? Arguing in this vein vis-à-vis the 14 makes it look like the 14's journey needs to end at Braemor Road as in the past, or at least continue running via its current route (including Rathgar Road instead of Highfield Park and Upper Rathmines Road) and terminating in Churchtown instead of continuing on to Ballinteer and going to Dundrum the long way.

    As for "running buses for the sake of running them", I remind the board of the CitySwift and City Imp debacles. Network Destruct looks too much like a return to the former, which ended up with drastic reductions in services. A "bankrupt nation" (reasons for that not germane for discussion on this particular forum) can't afford to run bus services less reliably either, because that will be more expensive in the long run to the exchequer.

    Sorry - I should have been clearer (and I was in my last post) - I use the 14, 14a and 48a (I have the choice of all three) regularly at different times pretty much 7 days a week as I don't drive. Relations and friends also use them at different times.

    From my own experiences and those of my relatives and friends I think that I am qualified to make the comments that I have.

    As for the impact of LUAS - if you used those routes anyway regularly the impact would have been obvious - hence my question of you - I can only conclude you do not or have not used them in any way recently. But you won't answer that question for some odd reason. The numbers reduced well before the changes were made to the timetable in 2009.

    The off-peak journey time difference between the 14 and 14a would be 5 minutes max - if it means higher loadings I think it makes more sense. As it is the 14 is faster in the peak.

    Making routes longer does not necessarily make them less reliable unless sufficient additional running time is provided. That's the problem on the N3 and the N11 post-change. As it is the one certainty is that the 14, 14a and 48a certainly do NOT have running time issues - quite the opposite!

    You again miss the point that we cannot afford to have buses going around half-empty. If the 128 and 15 are merged, something still has to serve Upper Rathmines. Logic would suggest re-routing the 14 as Rathgar Road already has the 15/a/b, 65/b and 74/a which are more than sufficient.

    Cutting them short is not the answer. The 14/14a form two core purposes - a link from Ballinteer, Churchtown, Rathgar and Upper Rathmines to the city, and a link from Marley/Ballinteer to Dundrum.

    I will again ask when was the last time that you used these routes or indeed any public transport in Ireland? The reason is I ask is that you're making very sweeping statements with (it would certainly seem to me) little or no knowledge of what actually is happening on the ground.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,404 ✭✭✭dogmatix


    KC61 wrote: »
    Realistically could anyone expect it to survive? While in the mornings there might be 30 people on the peak departure from Ballinteer, in the evenings it's usually less than 10 on an evening peak outbound service.

    The 44 will cover the Ranelagh-Dundrum section which ought to be more than sufficient.

    Agreed - it has to go. Just sad as it was a part of my youth. Having said that I usually get the 14 or 14A if i'm heading out to Ballinteer by bus these days - it is faster then the 48A. The 16A is my third choice. 48A comes a poor forth.

    So much for nostalgia on my part!

    The 48A has been around for many decades - used to terminate somewhere near the present Wesley college I believe but kept being extended further up Ballinteer avenue and then Broadford as the area became more and more built up.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,463 ✭✭✭CIE


    KC61 wrote: »
    Sorry - I should have been clearer (and I was in my last post) - I use the 14, 14a and 48a (I have the choice of all three) regularly at different times pretty much 7 days a week as I don't drive. Relations and friends also use them at different times.

    From my own experiences and those of my relatives and friends I think that I am qualified to make the comments that I have
    OK, it's opinion. Thanks for clarifying that.
    As for the impact of LUAS - if you used those routes anyway regularly the impact would have been obvious - hence my question of you - I can only conclude you do not or have not used them in any way recently. But you won't answer that question for some odd reason. The numbers reduced well before the changes were made to the timetable in 2009
    You do realise that there are other points of view out there, I hope. Think from the point of view of trying to sell public transport to those who feel that the same has been degraded so badly that driving is one's only recourse.
    The off-peak journey time difference between the 14 and 14a would be 5 minutes max - if it means higher loadings I think it makes more sense. As it is the 14 is faster in the peak
    What if it doesn't mean higher loadings? The routes do travel from other markets. Slowing the bus down drives passengers away. Also, if the bus is routed via Highland Park, that means making the route longer (and unless there is no NIMBY issue with buses via Highland Park, I do not see that happening; but historically, the tendency has been no bus service on that road).
    Making routes longer does not necessarily make them less reliable unless sufficient additional running time is provided. That's the problem on the N3 and the N11 post-change. As it is the one certainty is that the 14, 14a and 48a certainly do NOT have running time issues - quite the opposite
    So why introduce running time issues? Adding running time reduces average speed, which makes bus travel far less attractive, as I said. And looking at the current timetables, it's difficult to attract ridership along a corridor where you have buses every 40 minutes peak; the 14 is only marginally better, which raises the question as to why it hasn't been improved before now if the buses "fill up" along the Braemor Road/Orwell Road artery (i.e as though there was no filling up of the buses from Beaumont Avenue southward).
    You again miss the point that we cannot afford to have buses going around half-empty. If the 128 and 15 are merged, something still has to serve Upper Rathmines. Logic would suggest re-routing the 14 as Rathgar Road already has the 15/a/b, 65/b and 74/a which are more than sufficient
    Logic needs a premise to base it on. Buses that are "half-empty" are unaffordable, and must be bursting to the gills to be affordable? That seems to be the premise you're forwarding. "Half-empty" translates to "half-full" from the optimist's POV, remember; on a 72-seat bus, that's 36 full seats.

    Combining the 15 and 128 would be another disaster in waiting. Clongriffin to Scholarstown Road is enough of a trek by car. The routes are just too long, when in excess of 10 miles in length. Expect bunching to increase.

    Dublin Bus tried these catch-all routes that resulted in less direct, longer, circuitous routing in the past, and the recent past at that (mid-90s). They were resounding failures for the most part; none of them were successful.
    Cutting them short is not the answer. The 14/14a form two core purposes - a link from Ballinteer, Churchtown, Rathgar and Upper Rathmines to the city, and a link from Marley/Ballinteer to Dundrum
    Cutting a route short is always the answer. The 14/A originally terminated in Churchtown; later, they terminated in Ballinteer. Extending them to Dundrum was the mistake. Now there will be fewer buses from Dundrum to the city centre as well. It's not feasible to go southward on Dundrum Road to get the Luas to make up for the degraded bus service; more people will opt to drive instead. The remaining routes will take too long to get to the city compared with in the past, and they may start off with high frequency, but that will get cut and cut deep just like what happened in the past with CitySwift because the new routings were not what passengers wanted. (Anyone remember what happened with the 40, and how they had to bring back the 40A via its original route afterwards? They want to do the same thing again, hoping that the existence of the 140 will defray that; it won't.)
    I will again ask when was the last time that you used these routes or indeed any public transport in Ireland? The reason is I ask is that you're making very sweeping statements with (it would certainly seem to me) little or no knowledge of what actually is happening on the ground
    All I'm getting on here is opinions. And FWICS, taking a bus to Churchtown is getting less and less attractive. Continuous removal of the buses will not result in any kind of successful ridership scheme. There's cause for every effect.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,056 ✭✭✭Tragedy


    Hang on, is the 128-15 merger going to involve the 15 following the 128's route northside?
    If so, that's absolutely ridiculous. We already know massive long cross city routes don't work.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,905 ✭✭✭Aard


    Tragedy, that's basically what Network Direct is all about.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 369 ✭✭clunked


    Will the 14/20b route run from Donnybrook or from Summerhill?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,316 ✭✭✭KC61


    Tragedy wrote: »
    Hang on, is the 128-15 merger going to involve the 15 following the 128's route northside?
    If so, that's absolutely ridiculous. We already know massive long cross city routes don't work.

    Not quite true - if the routes are given sufficient running time to get from one terminus to another there would not be a problem.

    The principal problems so far have been, for example with the 145, that the end-to-end time that buses are allowed to get from one terminus to another in the peak is not enough, and similarly insufficient time is allowed to get to Donnybrook for driver changes.

    The result is chaos!

    If adequate running times were in place in the first place this would not be happening.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,316 ✭✭✭KC61


    clunked wrote: »
    Will the 14/20b route run from Donnybrook or from Summerhill?

    No idea.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,281 ✭✭✭Stevek101


    clunked wrote: »
    Will the 14/20b route run from Donnybrook or from Summerhill?

    15/128 , 14/20b and 27/77 were suppose to go to Ringsend. However, that was in the originial plan; things could have changed since then.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,056 ✭✭✭Tragedy


    Aard wrote: »
    Tragedy, that's basically what Network Direct is all about.
    I thought network direct was about improving efficiency. Cross city bus routes have never been shown to be particularly efficient, unless they run the buses extremely close together.
    I could suggest a million things to improve the 15/15B/49/74/74A bus routes, but i'd never ever suggest sending one all the way out to Clongriffin.


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