Mike McGurns Article re GAA players playing Rugby

davegrohl48

Did anyone read Mike McGurns article in todays Sunday Indo in response to Bernard Jackman raising the issue that Rugby should be trying to convert one or two players from GAA each year. Article is here:
http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-football/code-breakers-will-find-rugby-tough-to-crack-2429211.html

Personally his focus on skills being the problem I believe is incorrect. Logically rugby does not require the same level of skills as soccer, gaa, Aussie Rules. A forward can get by on sheer phsycial strength, a back can get by sometimes on sheer speed and evasiveness. Jason Robinson was quite a poor kicker of the ball and a rather average passer of the ball but he had freakish speed and agility. We are all aware that more than a few of Irelands forwards are quite poor with the ball. My contention would be that most GAA players cannot make it but that there is most definitely close to fifteen GAA players out there in the current inter county setup that could field a rugby team. I will say that as regards front row forwards there was a better selection from Gaa Players a few years ago. Not quite so many squat bulky players now. I picked 15 players from roughly 2002 - 2010 to stir a debate. Most of these played at the same time. What do people think, is McGurn overrating the step up to play rugby if an athlete is strong/fast enough? Obviously a transition period would be required but that has already worked for GAA players switching to Aussie Rules a game less reliant on sheer physique than rugby.
Here are some who may have been competitive after a two year transition of weight training and ballwork (Forwards look good, I hope anyways). Can't think of two real zippy wingers who would be fast while being strong enough. Any suggestions? Just go for two big men with skill?
1 - Paul Shelly (Tipp) (Used to easily pack on bulk)
2 - Diarmuid O'Sullivan (Cork) (Powerful fella and mobile)
3 - Niall Sheridan (Longford) (Was fairly strong)
4 - John Galvin (Limerick) (6'5" and mobile and could pack on more weight)
5 - Michael Quirke (Kerry) (6'6", strong and very good with his hands)
6 - Ross McConnell (Dublin) (Could block up the blindside)
7 - Darren Fay (Meath) (Fast, aggressive and strong)
8 - Joe Sheridan (Meath) (Big bulky runner and skillful)
9 - Darren O'Sullivan (Kerry) (Very nippy and very strong and low to the ground)
10 - Cian Ward (Meath) (Big boot and is very strong)
11 - (Open to suggestions)
12 - Francie Grehan (Roscommon) (Strong and direct)
13 - Ciaran McDonald (Mayo) (Strong and was bulkier in his early days. He was fast too and had a good sidestep)
14 - (Open to suggestions)
15 - Ciaran Whelan (good in the air possibly a bit slow)
Bound to be two real hares somewhere out there for the wings?

jolley123

It's something i've always thought about. There are so many GAA players around the country that I'm sure havn't been introduced to rugby. Obviously it's not a case of persuading GAA players to switch to rugby, just introduce these guys to it. But I think the notion of that is something the die hard GAA fans would feel threatened by. There's no doubt that GAA players are highly skilled.

themont85

Whelan as a FB? Wouldn't say so. Far too slow, his catching skills in the midfield in Gaelic would be more suited to second row rather than FB where its into the breadbasket for catching kicks.

Always thought a guy with the skills and vision of Gooch would be a decent halfback.

SomeFool

I'd say Paul Galvin would make a good openside, don't particularly like the fellas but the O'Halpin brothers would have made excellent rugby palyers.

CiaranMT

SomeFool wrote: »

I'd say Paul Galvin would make a good openside, don't particularly like the fellas but the O'Halpin brothers would have made excellent rugby palyers.

+1 Always saw Galvin as a 7, in the Brussow mould. Pure dirty scrapper. Seán Óg in his younger days would've made a fine, fine centre I reckon.

JustinDee

SomeFool wrote: »

I'd say Paul Galvin would make a good openside

Too light for a forward and eff all respect for a referee.
Wouldn't last a half in the pack.

davegrohl48

Was thinking of picking Galvin as a scrum half. He would be a better distributor than Darren O'Sullvian, but Darren O'Sullivan would have a lethal breakaway in his game. Very hard to stop O'Sullvian gaining 8 - 10 yards every time. Near the line that can get you a try or precious yards. O'Sullivan is built like a little tank and he doesn't offer much of a target to tackle and he has a really low centre of gravity, you'd have him half knocked over and he'd scramble back to his feet.
Didn't pick Sean Og as he never stood out in Football like he did in hurling.
He's probably more athletic than Grehan though. Grehan dropped, O'Hailpinn in - protests from Tarmon to Ballaghadereen. A bulked up Setanta brought into squad as substitute second row.

evil_seed

A lot more than just footballers could play. Joe Canning is supposed to be a fantatic rugby player and could have chosen to go down that path but preferred the hurling

buck65

Ollie Baker at 6?

davegrohl48

Ollie Baker was far too small to be a number 6. MccOnnell looks about the best of whats out there at 6. He's big, strong and mobile.
Shelly, O'Sullivan were hurlers in relation to hurling message.

anonymous_joe

I've only heard of about two people mentioned in this thread. :pac:

Is Eric Miller still playing the gah? :pac:

gally74

always though Eamonn O Hara would have made a great back, maybe center or wing, had the strength and speed

Mr Tim Buktoo

davegrohl48 wrote: »

Ollie Baker was far too small to be a number 6. MccOnnell looks about the best of whats out there at 6. He's big, strong and mobile.
Shelly, O'Sullivan were hurlers in relation to hurling message.

Ollie baker far too small! i dont think so. he is/was a big guy. and your talking about after these guys his the weights etc!

The Rooster

themont85 wrote: »

Whelan as a FB? Wouldn't say so. Far too slow, his catching skills in the midfield in Gaelic would be more suited to second row rather than FB where its into the breadbasket for catching kicks.

Always thought a guy with the skills and vision of Gooch would be a decent halfback.

Whelan was very fast in his early to mid 20s. Famous for his surging runs. I guess he wouldnt have been far away from the likes of Girv in a foot race. Though probably a bit behind in fairness.

Whelan did lose a yard of pace in his late 20s - I think the culmination of minor injuries hits the amateur player harder than the pro.

As the OP said if you did a trawl of current GAA intercounty teams and picked 25 guys to train for year you'd end up with a very good rugby side - AIL1 standard IMO. Bar props. You'd need to bring in two specialists.

theoneeyedman

davegrohl48 wrote: »

Was thinking of picking Galvin as a scrum half. He would be a better distributor than Darren O'Sullvian, but Darren O'Sullivan would have a lethal breakaway in his game. Very hard to stop O'Sullvian gaining 8 - 10 yards every time. Near the line that can get you a try or precious yards. O'Sullivan is built like a little tank and he doesn't offer much of a target to tackle and he has a really low centre of gravity, you'd have him half knocked over and he'd scramble back to his feet.
Didn't pick Sean Og as he never stood out in Football like he did in hurling.
He's probably more athletic than Grehan though. Grehan dropped, O'Hailpinn in - protests from Tarmon to Ballaghadereen. A bulked up Setanta brought into squad as substitute second row.

jasus the protests start here....put Francie in the front row and yer man Rory Woods (luvs his spuds) beside him, and maybe Corkory @ no 2 - he can peg in the ball I'm told on another hread its a Hughely skillful part of the game:rolleyes:..long strings needed for 4&5 how about one or both of the McMahon bros-hardy lads for back row Pgalvin,G Geraghty and david Brady from Mayo...... no 9 Brian McGuigan and Ciaran McDonald @ out half....speedy lads on the wings Darren O sullivan an option here along witha fit Paul Barden (Longford) centresTrevor Giles (Might push the 2002 timeline a bit) and vinny corey to shore it up a bit Fullback what about Sean Cavanagh...would hammer your team OP:o

CiaranMT

Eoin Brosnan in his prime would have been a great centre I reckon.

De_La_Jim

Diarmuid o Sullivan is playing rugby now,he plays for Sundays well

Diabhal Beag

TBH if they aren't playing rugby already they won't switch over. The prospect of being a 3rd or 4th choice player for most of these guys wouldn't be appealing either.

sportinglegend

1 - Diarmuid O'Sullivan Cork - Strong as an ox
2 - Shane Cake Curran Roscommon - Safe pair of hands
3 - Rory Woods Monghan - Wouldnt like to meet him in a tackle
4 - Justin McMahon Tyrone - Tall , very athletic and very good in the air
5 - Michael Quirke Kerry - Good hands from basketball and a good frame to boot
6 - Joe Canning Galway - Big lad who is supposed to be very good at rugby
7 - Paul Galvin - Good at winning the dirty ball and using it well.
8 - Jackie Tyrrell Kilkenny - Big Strong Powerful Lad
9 - Peter Canavan Tyrone - Great vision
10 - Bryan Sheehan Kerry - Deadball specialist and a decent engine
11 - Leighton Glynn wicklow - Supreme athlete unreal engine and accurate
12 - Eamonn O'Hara Sligo - Strong powerful and fast
13 - DJ Carey Kilkenny - Could always spot a gap and very quick off the mark
14 - Sean Armstrong Galway - Big Frame and very athletic currently playing with Shannon
15 - Marty Clarke Down- very creative and excellent kicker of the ball.

davegrohl48

None of those guys would switch over we know. But the question is more looking at modern players in their physical prime without rugby oriented weight training. Which of those players look to have the physical capability of potentially cutting it at a professional level if put on a rugby regime for two years.
The view would be that a good few could possibly make it.
Bizarrely I think the opposite to McGurn in that I think it's trying to develop forwards that is likely to be more successful. Locks and flankers. There are GAA players out there who are not far off being physically ready for it.
McConnel is close.
Quirke/Galvin,
Shelly as a prop if he was got early enough looked like he'd be able to scrummage. He being so squat and short. He'd have no trouble adding bulk, he was doin that already just not the right kind of bulk
O'Sullivan looked strong enough to be a hooker.
Remember for props the main ingredient for success is purely your natural physical build and muscularity. You do weight training to improve on that.
Locks, I'v always thought we should be much better served than we are in that position. There have been a fair few players out there 6'5" who are mobile and fairly skillful. I haven't been impressed by an Irish lock in free space with the pitch to run into since, ... well I don't think we've had a mobile lock in the modern era full stop. O'Callaghan was a sitting duck to the tackle the last day. He tackled hard himself but we're very ineffective at making ground from 4/5 when in posession. Heresy some may say to say it but Paul O'Connell is at this stage noted for not making ground in the loose. You can squat and bench press all you like, if you arrive too slow into the gain line you will get stopped up much easier and yer much easier to wrap up in the tackle. Often backs are much harder stopped due to this fact, Muiliana was like that against us. Hard to get a proper tackle on him with yer arm bouncing back off him and due to his sheer momentum.
For backs I think there have been a few lads who could have added something at centre, but as against that yer coming into the picture against lads playing since 12 years of age. So I still think it's upfront you can convert players with more success.

h8scobes

mark vaughan was savage player for rock

Junior

Isn't O'Sullivan actually playing rugby in Cork ?

Kev_ps3

Thats a disgrace. We should protect our national sports.

d'Oracle

Junior wrote: »

Isn't O'Sullivan actually playing rugby in Cork ?

Yeah.
Can't remember which team but the Played away to Greystones last year.

twinytwo

davegrohl48 wrote: »

Did anyone read Mike McGurns article in todays Sunday Indo in response to Bernard Jackman raising the issue that Rugby should be trying to convert one or two players from GAA each year. Article is here:
http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-football/code-breakers-will-find-rugby-tough-to-crack-2429211.html

Personally his focus on skills being the problem I believe is incorrect. Logically rugby does not require the same level of skills as soccer, gaa, Aussie Rules. A forward can get by on sheer phsycial strength, a back can get by sometimes on sheer speed and evasiveness. Jason Robinson was quite a poor kicker of the ball and a rather average passer of the ball but he had freakish speed and agility. We are all aware that more than a few of Irelands forwards are quite poor with the ball. My contention would be that most GAA players cannot make it but that there is most definitely close to fifteen GAA players out there in the current inter county setup that could field a rugby team. I will say that as regards front row forwards there was a better selection from Gaa Players a few years ago. Not quite so many squat bulky players now. I picked 15 players from roughly 2002 - 2010 to stir a debate. Most of these played at the same time. What do people think, is McGurn overrating the step up to play rugby if an athlete is strong/fast enough? Obviously a transition period would be required but that has already worked for GAA players switching to Aussie Rules a game less reliant on sheer physique than rugby.
Here are some who may have been competitive after a two year transition of weight training and ballwork (Forwards look good, I hope anyways). Can't think of two real zippy wingers who would be fast while being strong enough. Any suggestions? Just go for two big men with skill?
1 - Paul Shelly (Tipp) (Used to easily pack on bulk)
2 - Diarmuid O'Sullivan (Cork) (Powerful fella and mobile)
3 - Niall Sheridan (Longford) (Was fairly strong)
4 - John Galvin (Limerick) (6'5" and mobile and could pack on more weight)
5 - Michael Quirke (Kerry) (6'6", strong and very good with his hands)
6 - Ross McConnell (Dublin) (Could block up the blindside)
7 - Darren Fay (Meath) (Fast, aggressive and strong)
8 - Joe Sheridan (Meath) (Big bulky runner and skillful)
9 - Darren O'Sullivan (Kerry) (Very nippy and very strong and low to the ground)
10 - Cian Ward (Meath) (Big boot and is very strong)
11 - (Open to suggestions)
12 - Francie Grehan (Roscommon) (Strong and direct)
13 - Ciaran McDonald (Mayo) (Strong and was bulkier in his early days. He was fast too and had a good sidestep)
14 - (Open to suggestions)
15 - Ciaran Whelan (good in the air possibly a bit slow)
Bound to be two real hares somewhere out there for the wings?

Plays on the wing for highfield i believe... professional rugby player he is nto

davegrohl48

After two years of weight training and skills training I'd say O'Sullivan would get fairly close as a professional at number 2. Why do you think I picked him there. I know he's not fast enough to be a back. O'Sullivan would end up around 16 stone and still fairly mobile after a weights regime. His hand eye coordination would be top drawer, otherwise he wouldn't be able to catch a ball pinged 80 metres down a pitch. Therefore I could see him adapting pretty quick. His footballing skills when he played Gaelic while not being one of the better Cork players he was still worthy enough of his place. Making the Cork football and hurling teams is no mean feat.
Scrummaging - he'd be fine, if Cronin can survive O'Sullivan can survive
Lineout throws - he'd be fine. Two years of practice to pick it up and he's already coordinated.
Tackling - He has impact in the tackle with his mobility and strength and natural aggression, he's no shrinking violet
Loose play - He's mobile and would be able to make ground
Skills, passing, kicking - he'd be well able to make a contribution.

But yer right, he wouldn't make it as a back.

twinytwo

davegrohl48 wrote: »

After two years of weight training and skills training I'd say O'Sullivan would get fairly close as a professional at number 2. Why do you think I picked him there. I know he's not fast enough to be a back. O'Sullivan would end up around 16 stone and still fairly mobile after a weights regime. His hand eye coordination would be top drawer, otherwise he wouldn't be able to catch a ball pinged 80 metres down a pitch. Therefore I could see him adapting pretty quick. His footballing skills when he played Gaelic while not being one of the better Cork players he was still worthy enough of his place. Making the Cork football and hurling teams is no mean feat.
Scrummaging - he'd be fine, if Cronin can survive O'Sullivan can survive
Lineout throws - he'd be fine. Two years of practice to pick it up and he's already coordinated.
Tackling - He has impact in the tackle with his mobility and strength and natural aggression, he's no shrinking violet
Loose play - He's mobile and would be able to make ground
Skills, passing, kicking - he'd be well able to make a contribution.

But yer right, he wouldn't make it as a back.

it was in his prime.. his last 2/3 seasons for cork he was shocking.

Itsdacraic

davegrohl48 wrote: »

1 - Paul Shelly (Tipp) (Used to easily pack on bulk)
2 - Diarmuid O'Sullivan (Cork) (Powerful fella and mobile)
3 - Niall Sheridan (Longford) (Was fairly strong)
4 - John Galvin (Limerick) (6'5" and mobile and could pack on more weight)
5 - Michael Quirke (Kerry) (6'6", strong and very good with his hands)
6 - Ross McConnell (Dublin) (Could block up the blindside)
7 - Darren Fay (Meath) (Fast, aggressive and strong)
8 - Joe Sheridan (Meath) (Big bulky runner and skillful)
9 - Darren O'Sullivan (Kerry) (Very nippy and very strong and low to the ground)
10 - Cian Ward (Meath) (Big boot and is very strong)
11 - (Open to suggestions)
12 - Francie Grehan (Roscommon) (Strong and direct)
13 - Ciaran McDonald (Mayo) (Strong and was bulkier in his early days. He was fast too and had a good sidestep)
14 - (Open to suggestions)
15 - Ciaran Whelan (good in the air possibly a bit slow)
Bound to be two real hares somewhere out there for the wings?

You left out Stephen Kelly from Limerick?
An inter-county footballer who actually plays top flight rugby.

CIARAN_BOYLE

I think we should focus on young talent, raid the minors teams for converts into the academy rather than established intercounty players.

LFC5Times

There is a few who would of played schools rugby at either Juniors or Seniors who play for Dublin but I guess the article is more about gaelic players who have probably never played rugby before.

Ger Brennan
Conal Keaney
Eoghan O'Gara
Niall Corkery

durkadurka

I think i remember Moss Keane saying that Gaelic football is great for your rugby, but rugby is terrible for your Gaelic...


gooch at 10 anyone?

LFC5Times

durkadurka wrote: »

I think i remember Moss Keane saying that Gaelic football is great for your rugby, but rugby is terrible for your Gaelic...


gooch at 10 anyone?

Would take running down the number 10's channel to a whole new level

d-gal

Joe Canning plays outhalf, massive boot. I think he is actually playing in top tier AIL at he moment, just can't remember who with. Sean Armstrong is playing wing for Shannon, doing really well might add

gally74

http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-football/code-breakers-will-find-rugby-tough-to-crack-2429211.html

Ian_K

Has it not occured to anyone that rugby is not the be all and end all, and i'm sure the majority of GAA players would rather win an all ireland medal with their county than play rugby for their province?
Sean Armstrongs name has been mentioned but he is only using rugby to keep fit during the winter so he'll have an advantage for next years football season because thats what really matters to him

Obviously this thread is entirely hypothetical anyway but Jackmans article comes across as very obnoxious and condescending, he makes it sound like any young footballer in the country would jump at the chance to swich codes if given the chance, try convincing a young lad from wesht Kerry that playing AIL rugby is a bigger honour than wearing the green & gold of his own county

wixfjord

Ian_K wrote: »

Has it not occured to anyone that rugby is not the be all and end all, and i'm sure the majority of GAA players would rather win an all ireland medal with their county than play rugby for their province?
Sean Armstrongs name has been mentioned but he is only using rugby to keep fit during the winter so he'll have an advantage for next years football season because thats what really matters to him

Obviously this thread is entirely hypothetical anyway but Jackmans article comes across as very obnoxious and condescending, he makes it sound like any young footballer in the country would jump at the chance to swich codes if given the chance, try convincing a young lad from wesht Kerry that playing AIL rugby is a bigger honour than wearing the green & gold of his own county

Many would jump at the chance of playing pro sport though.

I would be of the opinion that guys like Brendan Murphy would be good at any sport. A lot of these guys are freaks and their athleticism would lend to many disciplines. With a years training, Murphy, who would be better than many current rugby players on general catching and kicking skills, would make a good back imo. Not sure whether he'd ever make it as a senior player but then again, not many make it in Aussie Rules either.

gally74

This thread is a bit of fun too, not a bad thing in ireland today

whysomoody

Ian_K wrote: »

try convincing a young lad from wesht Kerry that playing AIL rugby is a bigger honour than wearing the green & gold of his own county

Hardly comparing apples with apples. I'd imagine any Gaelic player would be equally happy playing in a World Cup final in front of a few billion people than playing in Croke Park in front of 1.5m at most.

ballsymchugh

had Sean óg de Paor retired by 2002?? i'd have him on one of the wings. he was a flyer of a wing half back.

irishbucsfan

whysomoody wrote: »

Hardly comparing apples with apples. I'd imagine any Gaelic player would be equally happy playing in a World Cup final in front of a few billion people than playing in Croke Park in front of 1.5m at most.

Few billion people!?

17 Million watched the last final, and that was England v. South Africa. Any World Cup final with Ireland in it wouldn't attract nearly as many viewers as they would.

jmalone2

Michael Donnellan (Glaway). 11 or 14. Was able to run the 100 metres in 11 seconds had a huge boot aswell, I saw him brake a few nets in his time.

Either
Padraig Joyce (Galway) at number 10, excellent place kicker.
or
Kevin O Brien (Wicklow) at number 10, again a lethal place kicker.

Joyce has a bit more phisicality though, it's like the Sexton O Gara debate.

Headlights

A former inter-pro once told me that gaelic football was invented by the English to prevent us from becoming THE world power in rugby.....

I'd say we'd have had two of the Lions back row locked down in the 70s between Jack O'Shea and Dermot Earley. Immensely powerful, bullocking men with sublime skills and combative attitude. Jimmy Stynes would've been in the second row in the 80s.

People would debate whether Kieran McGeeney (Ulster & Lions captain 2005) was as good as them in their prime, and if Tommy Walsh (the Kerry one) was his natural successor)

And think of the lineage of out-halves and full backs we'd have. Never mind Humphries v O'Gara, we'd have had Ciarain MacDonald v Maurice Fitz to argue over!

Tommy Walsh (Kilkenny) at scrum half - how irritating would that be? He'd be the new Davy Fitz.

The team I'd have of lads STILL PLAYING. Only problem is props

BACKS

9 Tommy Walsh (the hurling one)
10 Marty Clarke

11 Stephen Kelly (already a winger at top club level)
12 Joe Canning (run down that channel. I dare you)
13 Bernard Brogan
14 Leighton Glynn (speed, vision, accurate kicking. The new Hickie)
15 Tadhg Keneally (catch, kick, counter attack, tackle - the lot)

PACK

1 Rory Woods
2 Kevin McKernan (bulk reqd for scrum but Cronin-like round the pitch. If hooking were still a useful skill he'd be great)
3 Is John Carroll still playing? Short, wide lads dont survive in GAA

4 Micheal Quirke (He's Ireland's Bob Casey)
5 Brendan Murphy (Ive played against him. He's a killing machine!)

6 Dick Clerkin (the word is 'gnarled')
7 Setanta O'hAilpin (Powerful runner, big hits. Better kick than D Wallace)
8 Tommy Walsh (Taking over from D Earley jr......and Ivan Drago)

Seiously though, it's alredy happened; Mick Galwey, Tommy Bowe, Geordan Murphy, Shane Horgan, Rob Kearney, Brian Carney, Tomas O'Leary, John Muldoon - All played county minor or above

in your face

Always thought Trevor Giles could make a tasty out half. How about Maurice Fitz at FB? He was deceptively quick and strong and had a sweet side-step, never mind his vision and range of kicking skills. Paul Galvin for SH and Kieran McGeeney for Openside.

Ian_K

jmalone2 wrote: »

Michael Donnellan (Glaway). 11 or 14. Was able to run the 100 metres in 11 seconds had a huge boot aswell, I saw him brake a few nets in his time.

Either
Padraig Joyce (Galway) at number 10, excellent place kicker.
or
Kevin O Brien (Wicklow) at number 10, again a lethal place kicker.

Joyce has a bit more phisicality though, it's like the Sexton O Gara debate.

Padraig Joyce more physical than Kevin O'Brien... :pac:

ch2008

Id love to see Jason Sherlock at scrum half.

Headlights

What's the mad rush everyone has to find a spot for Paul Galvin? Even if he wasn't overrated to begin with he'd spend half the time suspended for gouging! All he does is pick up breaking ball, and the use he makes of it isn't as good as Eamonn Callaghan of Kildare

Ryan McMenamin is another potential scrum half. He's like a middleweight Alan Quinlan. He's the lad Galvin would be gouging

CIARAN_BOYLE

With the womens match on at the moment it reminded me of this thread.

Every few minutes the commentors mention that this player or that player plays intercounty GAA. I think there must be three or four intercounty players out there.

Depp

Know from experience of playing with him that Walter Walsh of Kilkenny is an incredible out-half, absolutely tore defensive lines apart and had a great boot too, got a penalty from ten yards inside our half in a leinster quarter final at one stage, not straight in front of the posts either, leinster youth set-up were after him for years but he chose the hurling.

gcgirl

It's gas screaming at gaa players that after kicking the ball they actually have to run after it to get everyone onside :-) ladies rugby has loads of gaa/soccer player and even a few camogie players!

Shelflife

introduced TJ Kilgallon of Mayo to the dark arts of the front row late one night in the pub, must have been a rare sight seeing me at 5 7" and TJ at 6 4" lock horns in the corner of the pub.

Anyway I think he would have been an excellent lock, serious grafter, good engine and great hands in the lineout and as tough as nails.

For the outhalf dictating the play you could pick Gooch Cooper or Maurice Fitzgerald (both Kerry).

Peter Canavan (Tyrone) would have made a great scrum half.

Niall Cahalane (Cork), Francie Bellew (Armagh) or Vinny Murphy (Dublin) would make some decent front rowers, both with the necessary 'dog' in them also.

Liam McHale (Mayo) as a second rower?