Official application for EU/IMF loan announced

Sir Oxman

Lenihan on Radio 1, 1o'clock news

BBC are reporting (quoting a Sunday times report) the bailout will be bigger than Greece's -
estimated €120 Billion

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-11805529

The fiction becomes fact.

loike

oh. my. god.

kev9100

I fecking despise these people.

wiseguy

120 billion at 5% is almost 6 billion in interest

:eek: gulp

My signature needs to be changed into CAPS now its seems

PeterIanStaker

Thank you FF - you've ensured our childrens' future in more ways than one through your sheer stupidity, mendacity & incompetence:mad::mad:

Sir Oxman

Lenihan is insisting it will be a 'Contingency Fund' and we may not 'tap' into all of it - he has just said it will certainly not be a three figure sum, so it's a three figure sum then.

He says the interest rate is not set (IMF have a set rate?), no answer about do we pay interest on the entire 'contingency fund' or just the bit we use.

wiseguy

For ****s sake, he is avoiding every single question addressed at him, ****ing politicians.

PeakOutput

gambiaman wrote: »

Lenihan is insisting it will be a 'Contingency Fund' and we may not 'tap' into all of it - he has just said it will certainly not be a three figure sum, so it's a three figure sum then.

He says the interest rate is not set (IMF have a set rate?), no answer about do we pay interest on the entire 'contingency fund' or just the bit we use.

if you can trust their wording they say they wont draw it all down at once and will only draw down what they need when they need it(maybe never)

in regular banking you only pay interest on what you have drawn down

Dannyboy83

Lenihan is being very badly caught out for lying on Radio 1 right now.

This government should resign promptly.

dlofnep

They don't have the authority or mandate to do this! A GE needs to be called before any decisions are made.

Our man in Havana

dlofnep wrote: »

They don't have the authority or mandate to do this! A GE needs to be called before any decisions are made.

Since when has that stopped them? They will hang on until 2012.

meglome

Hopefully this will be just a contingency fund. But given we've gone from there is absolutely no bail-out to here's the bailout in a week you'd have to be quite dubious.

Sir Oxman

In reply to 'did your plan fail? (over the past two years)' he basically said yes, the route we took failed but it wasn't the wrong route.

Never in my life have I been so angry and helpless at the same time.

Permabear

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Oliver1985

Maybe the imf might force Ff to actually try create some jobs

Sir Oxman

donegalfella wrote: »

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Yes, I thought that too when listening to Lenihan - I think we've all become immune to the stupendously massive amounts of money being talked about - three figure sum naturally translates into billions in my brain when discussing Ireland's indebtedness.

wiseguy

Anyone else is worried about this being on a Sunday? is there an IMF shocker in the pipeline before the banks open tomorrow :eek:

Wolfe Tone

I am confused..... what exactly is this money for? The banks? Do we know for SURE that it will actually work?

hotmail.com

Michael Noonan suggested that the IMF may do something dramatic with the banks.

Does this mean the "adjustment" of 6 billion will increase?

mox54

Budget 2009 llenihan said 'we have turned a corner', only problem is we kept turning and are back to where we are!, we need an election cause these amateurs don't have a mandate!....very good chance I will loose my job now as heavily reliant on healthy bank sector so future looks bleak for me but I'll not worry about it as none of this is my doing so why should I.:cool:

nesf

Meh, we were already facing into a series of extremely tough austerity budgets. Not much has changed other than us borrowing from the EU/IMF rather than the bond markets.

If anything it's a good thing since we now have internationally renowned forensic bankers taking a hard look at our banking system for us.

K-9

gambiaman wrote: »

Yes, I thought that too when listening to Lenihan - I think we've all become immune to the stupendously massive amounts of money being talked about - three figure sum naturally translates into billions in my brain when discussing Ireland's indebtedness.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ybhroG408SU

They might knock a few noughts of.

Permabear

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Trampas

As much as I hate the imf coming in hopefully this will fix a lot which is broken with this country.

the sooner we get to the bottom the better

yoshytoshy

Probably jumping the gun a little ,but ,there could possibly be investment in Ireland again. Now that people who know what they're doing are taking care of things.

Permabear

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noodler

donegalfella wrote: »

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I would argue the yields on bonds over the last number of months show the bondmarkets care very much how we spend.

irishh_bob

donegalfella wrote: »

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so whats all this talk about the croke park agreement being left intact , is this just a ploy to buy fianna fail sometime untill they do a saigon style escape in january and leave FG - LABOUR to tear up the agreement with jack o connor

nesf

donegalfella wrote: »

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The bond markets do care, when you're in a recession.

noodler

irishh_bob wrote: »

so whats all this talk about the croke park agreement being left intact , is this just a ploy to buy fianna fail sometime untill they do a saigon style escape in january and leave FG - LABOUR to tear up the agreement with jack o connor

Well it looks like, according to the media, that it will be elft intatc in FF;s 4-year plan.

Thats before the IMF/EU have an input tho as far as I can see.

Fo Real

Oliver1985 wrote: »

Maybe the imf might force Ff to actually try create some jobs

Seriously? The last thing we need are more public sector workers draining our dwindling public finances. For too long Paddy Irishman has been happy to accept a cushy job from American and Japanese MNCs. Now that these foreign companies have packed up and moved East to where labour is cheaper, Paddy is moaning that the government won't give him a job.

Where is that entrepreneurial spirit? Go and create your own business. Be your own boss and make your own wage. There are plenty of reasons to be mad at FF. That they aren't creating jobs isn't one of them. They can, however, facilitate job creation with grants to help start up businesses.

To stress once more, last thing we need are more public sector leeches. I hope the IMF makes a significant proportion of theses paper pushers redundant.

Permabear

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bmaxi

Trampas wrote: »

As much as I hate the imf coming in hopefully this will fix a lot which is broken with this country.

the sooner we get to the bottom the better

A lot of people will suffer on the way down and you can bet it won't be the politicians or bankers.
These guys will just do a job, they won't be making any allowances for political sensitivities but equally they won't make allowances for individual circumstances.
While it is probably better in the short term for the IMF to be involved, due mostly to the total lack of credibility in our Government to sort things, I don't see there being a seismic shift in our political system. I can't remember any great shake up in the Argentinian establishment after their intervention there.

yoshytoshy

Fo Real wrote: »

To stress once more, last thing we need are more public sector leeches. I hope the IMF makes a significant proportion of theses paper pushers redundant.

What we really need to stop is , the public sector vs private sector thing ,some public sector workers get higher wages that need to be cut and others are on the breadline.
If we reorganised the public workforce ,we could easily create jobs with less money spent.

marglin

we can try and ignore the imf's horrendous record of absolutely fecking up countries and pretend this maybe isnt a bad thing
but no matter how hard they will be its got to the stage where id rather be told to cough up the money by some foreign banker than anyone with even the remotest affiliation with FF
after FF the imf will seem like the second coming, simply because they will tell us the truth about how broke the banls are
the sickening thing about what's happened over the last week is FF ministers are reportedly furious about, the State's finances? loss of sovereignty? not at all, about the worry that FF will be decimated at the next election, i mean ffs:mad::mad::mad::mad:

SkepticOne

If we are borrowing 120 billion at 5% then we'll have to default on that at some stage.

noodler

donegalfella wrote: »

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Eh? What?

We had a projected €18.5bn deficit at the start of this year, yet at the start of this year the yields were relatively stable. I'm not sure how you are interpreting this? Our deficit for the year has only changed marginally since then. You think the investors just see a daily expenditure 'number' come out of Ireland and the yield changes accordingly?

The fact that crazy amount of money is going to the banks is specifically a problem as most of it won't be coming back. It is not just the figure in itself.

Put it this way, check out the difference in the reaction of bond yields when we announced our new 7 year capital plan in the summer compared to the banking announcement at the end of September - it is quite obvious where the money is spent is important.

Also, the reation can be based on other things like situations in other euro economies, ratings agency downgrades, fears of bondholders being burnt etc.

Mr.Micro

Ok we all knew apart from the pathetic and disgraceful Government that the IMF/EU were coming in and what Biffo and Lenny thought they were playing at denying it for the last week is beyond me. Now that they are here, why the hell should we have to endure the FF/Green disaster? I love Lenny stating "it would the height of irresponsibility to have a General Election now, and that the priorities for the country were having the four-year plan and Budget in place". What the hell was his role and Biffo et al for the last number of years....irresponsibility does not even come close. What planet is he on...?

Rabble Rabble

noodler wrote: »

Eh? What?

We had a projected €18.5bn deficit at the start of this year, yet at the start of this year the yields were relatively stable. I'm not sure how you are interpreting this? Our deficit for the year has only changed marginally since then. You think the investors just see a daily expenditure 'number' come out of Ireland and the yield changes accordingly?

The fact that crazy amount of money is going to the banks is specifically a problem as most of it won't be coming back. It is not just the figure in itself.

Put it this way, check out the difference in the reaction of bond yields when we announced our new 7 year capital plan in the summer compared to the banking announcement at the end of September - it is quite obvious where the money is spent is important.

Also, the reation can be based on other things like situations in other euro economies, ratings agency downgrades, fears of bondholders being burnt etc.

True. The real problem spooking the markets was the banks.

Permabear

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Permabear

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nesf

donegalfella wrote: »

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Don't forget the issue of EU, and how it would act, in our interest rate. The markets thought we'd be able to cut our way out of it, and we signalled very strongly that we'd be willing to do that. The issue is indeed the scale of the banking problem.

Permabear

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K-9

donegalfella wrote: »

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I don't think people realise the scale of the alternative.

We are borrowing just to pay wages and Welfare in this country, never mid actually run hospitals, schools, Garda barracks, that type of stuff.

We'd have to bring in a Budget with about €15 Billion in cuts, never mind €6 Billion. The scale of that is unimaginable to me.

Permabear

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snubbleste

Watch the interview here and then explain to me what on earth he's on about.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/1121/economy.html#video

ArtSmart

Fo Real wrote: »

To stress once more, last thing we need are more public sector leeches. I hope the IMF makes a significant proportion of theses paper pushers redundant.

the term is 'servants'.

K-9

donegalfella wrote: »

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The problem is/was, too much focus was on cuts. The markets knew cuts of €6 Billion would have affected growth and tax revenue figures, a vicious circle. Cutting pay and Welfare, while unavoidable, will result in less money being spent in shops etc. thus reduced turnover, profits and taxes.

Completely agree on the lack of anything to encourage job growth.

newmug

Let me see, there's 4 million people here, and we're borrowing 120 billion.


Thats:

120,000,000,000 / 4,000,000

So 30 grand each.

Why do we need to borrow this? I dont owe anyone 30 grand?

ArtSmart

contingency fund explained.

Kid: what's that Mammy?

Mam: That's the cookie jar honey.

Kid: Cookie jar? wow. And can i have the cookies inside?

Mam: Yes love. But only take what you need.

mother leaves the room. She returns an hour later to see the kid lying on the floor, his belly bloated, a dazed look on his face, which is also covered in chocolate and crumbs. She sees the empty cookie jar lying beside him. She sighs, takes out her phone and dials 999

Mam: sotto voce 'will he ever learn?'

irishh_bob

donegalfella wrote: »

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agree with all of that DF but can you answer this , if the IMF or the markets lost all hope in this goverment based ( partly ) on thier ludicrious descision to sing a four year deal with the unions via croke park , why are we now being told that croke park is still intact

i asked this on another thread , is it merley a ploy to buy fianna fail sometime and the agreement will be binned when the new goverment arrives ( most likely ) in january