Last Nitelink full!

elbon

Did anybody try to get on 4am 67N bus from Westmoreland St on Saturday (20th/21st Nov). Told bus was full before 4am so "tough luck" even though I had already purchased a ticket. Apparently pre-purchased tickets are for "a" bus but not any right to board the bus you want (?). Left stranded in town to get €43 taxi fare home

saintsaltynuts

Wasnt on it but i have to say thats a load of bol?lox what happened to ye.

Stark

elbon wrote:

Apparently pre-purchased tickets are for "a" bus but not any right to board the bus you want (?)

That's correct. They're just generic tickets that are on sale everywhere. You could buy one in a newsagents and then use it on a bus a week later. You're not booking a seat when you buy one.

The ticket you bought on Saturday will still be valid next time you go to use a Nitelink.

elbon

Got to bus at 3.55, bus pulling off, was told bus was full so it was leaving. This has happened to me before but another bus has been made available to take extra passengers. According to Nitelink timetable * departure times may be more frequent depending on demand* There were about 10/15 people left waiting after the last bus pulled out- had to get 25N to Lucan- not much use if you live in Celbridge/Maynooth. Pretty poor service considering it only operates 3 buses on the 67 route twice per week

elbon

The chaos that ensued should have been enough to tell Dublin Bus to put another bus on. Gardai called, arrests made etc etc!

antoinolachtnai

It is a pso service. Dublin bus would have beencompensated for special overtime to run this extra service. There is no excuse for this carry on.

elbon

Pso service?? What is that?

helimachoptor

Public Service Obligation, its on your gas and ESB bills, not sure it applies to nite links though.

antoinolachtnai

Nitelink is a subsidised service. Dublin bus are under a contract to supply an adequate service.

elbon

Thanks! Certainly no public service obligation evident last night. Dublin Bus rep stood by as people sat on the road in front of the bus to prevent it leaving without them and then watched as they were dragged across the street and forcibly arrested. The answer to all enquiries was "take it up with Dublin Bus on Monday morning"

Losty Dublin

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

Nitelink is a subsidised service. Dublin bus are under a contract to supply an adequate service.

Nitelink is actually not covered for PSO; it is a privately offered service by Dublin Bus and is run without State subvention or subsidy, hence it being a higher priced limited service.

goingnowhere

Nightlink is not a PSO service, if it was it would accept free travel passes.

If you want to sit on a public road you will get arrested

Moral of the story, show up in good time for the bus particularly when its the very last bus

Stark

That was true until some time ago. The conditions have since changed and they're allowed run it as a subsidized service.

antoinolachtnai

Showing up early for a bus is not really a solution to the problem of there not being enough capacity.

If you don't want this to happen again write to your local TD urgently and complain.

vektarman

elbon wrote: »

Left stranded in town to get €43 taxi fare home

elbon wrote: »

had to get 25N to Lucan

I would have been seriously p****d off if that happened to me.
For clarification did you get a taxi home from the city centre or Lucan, if from Lucan that taxi fare is very expensive.

HxGH

Sorry to hear that OP.

That doesn't sound right at all. You should get them to pay for the taxi as well as your money back!

elbon

To clarify:
I was on time for the bus, it departed early as it was full (on previous occasions when this has happened an additional bus was put on- as per the statement on the timetable- that buses may be more frequent depending on demand- I would think that owing to the rugby match yesterday that it would be obvious that demand for the service would be increased)
The taxi fare was from the city centre.
Thankfully I was not on my own as I would certainly not get a taxi to Celbridge alone!

KC61

While I feel sorry for the OP, they are not obliged to put on extra buses - to be fair if a regular scheduled departure is full they do not put additional buses.

n97 mini

Just a suggestion: get the (much more frequent) 66N to Leixlip and get a cab to Maynooth or Celbridge in the event that they won't let you on the 67N.

AlekSmart

That was true until some time ago. The conditions have since changed and they're allowed run it as a subsidized service.

@ Stark,I`m not so sure that`s the case with the current Nitelink services.

My understanding is that Airlink,Nitelink and the Dublin Bus City Tour services are NOT considered within the PSO remit.

If you have a link to anything official re a change please post it ?

However,I have great sympathy with elbon for that occurence.

When I operated on the Nitelinks it was generally regarded as a given that the street would be cleared by the last departure.
Many times I would have seen drivers and buses being redirected back into town to clear a load of stragglers.

Sadly,with the last rationalization/survival plan came changes to Nitelink`s operational arrangements which now sees them operated as stand alone duties by far fewer drivers.

There is now virtually no overtime cover to allow for extra departures on occassions such as last Saturday.

Therefore once the Bus was Full...It was Full...Game-Over.

If one adds this experience to the ongoing experiences of Network Direct customers one may see a pattern developing,which essentially sees the Return of the Queue !

Anybody walking through Dublin City Centre these days must surely notice this very 1950`s phenomena recurring at Stops now catering for Network Directed routes....:eek:

Jehuty42

elbon wrote: »

people sat on the road in front of the bus to prevent it leaving without them and then watched as they were dragged across the street and forcibly arrested.

Can you clarify this part of the story? If the bus was full what exactly did these muppets hope to accomplish by delaying its departure?

antoinolachtnai

AlekSmart wrote: »

@ Stark,I`m not so sure that`s the case with the current Nitelink services.

My understanding is that Airlink,Nitelink and the Dublin Bus City Tour services are NOT considered within the PSO remit.

If you have a link to anything official re a change please post it ?

check the public service contracts on the NTA website. Nitelink is included.

No reputable public transport operator will abandon passengers in the middle of the night except for the most grave operational reasons.

This is especially the case when the operator are guaranteed by statute and EU law to be compensated for any costs.

elbon

I don't think they were muppets- just people standing up for themselves and ultimately paying the price. There was no attempt by Dublin Bus to engage with the punters-it was simply a case of "it's not my problem- take it up with Dublin Bus on Monday" Perhaps before judgement is made you should consider that perhaps people didn't have ~€50 for a taxi, a knowledge of nearby bus routes, the confidence to sit alone in a cab for a 13 mile journey. Essentially, it was a case of "Good enough for you", is that not what many posts are disagreeing to on other threads- that we should accept our lot?? My understanding is that this is meant to be a public service. Would we be so compacent if our energy suppliers decided that the public demand at any one time is too much so therefore you have no electricity tonight?? Or am I being over simpistic??

KC61

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

check the public service contracts on the NTA website. Nitelink is included.

No reputable public transport operator will abandon passengers in the middle of the night except for the most grave operational reasons.

This is especially the case when the operator are guaranteed by statute and EU law to be compensated for any costs.

Whether or not the service is in the NTA contract, it DID operate. If Dublin Bus started operating auxiliary departures on the 41x because buses were full you would be the first person to start complaining.

I don't think that the contract obliges DB to operate auxiliary services to the 67N.

Perhaps there was no bus/driver available to operate an extra service?

antoinolachtnai

It was the middle of the night. A large group of young people were left stranded in the middle of the city without any money. This is a reckless, shameful thing to do.

You make a spiteful, personal and entirely groundless and irrelevant attack on me rather than addressing the issue.

Then you are supposing that the biggest bus company in the state couldn't find a single vehicle coming off a shift to cover this.

KC61

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

It was the middle of the night. A large group of young people were left stranded in the middle of the city without any money. This is a reckless, shameful thing to do.

You make a spiteful, personal and entirely groundless and irrelevant attack on me rather than addressing the issue.

Then you are supposing that the biggest bus company in the state couldn't find a single vehicle coming off a shift to cover this.

With respect I not making any personal attack on you other to point out that you have been rather judicious in the past in when you criticise Dublin Bus and when you don't, mostly to suit your own agenda, which of course you are perfectly free to do.

No it's not good that people were left behind, but the company is not obliged to operate auxiliary services. You are implying that they are. There may well have been no bus/staff available - all of the last departures go at the same time.

antoinolachtnai

You are blatantly trotting out your corporate agenda. Specifically in this case, you are defending the indefensible.

You think I need to be driving my own agenda to criticise a company which did something completely reckless.

I was not talking about legal obligations. I am talking about ordinary common decency. And why would DB not run an auxiliary service when it knows it is guaranteed by law to get paid for it?

Tickityboo

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

It was the middle of the night. A large group of young people were left stranded in the middle of the city without any money. This is a reckless, shameful thing to do.

You make a spiteful, personal and entirely groundless and irrelevant attack on me rather than addressing the issue.

Then you are supposing that the biggest bus company in the state couldn't find a single vehicle coming off a shift to cover this.

At the end of the day it's up to you to look after yourself.
I often drove the last departure on the 84n to Graystones at 04.00 and without fail as the bus was leaving people whould arrive.
If you are travelling such a distance you should arrive early instead of trying to ramm another pint down your neck!! . You can't expect Dublin Bus to try and get another bus out of thin air when they're not oblidged too.

n97 mini

Tickityboo wrote: »

You can't expect Dublin Bus to try and get another bus out of thin air when they're not oblidged too.

Let us not forget that DB is run for the convenience of the staff and not the customers!

foggy_lad

The problem that night was the bus left early due to being full so arriving early for it would make little difference. From what I have read here there were significant numbers left stranded by Dublin bus at 4am many without cash for a taxi or nobody available at home to collect them. This is not good from a company like Dublin bus.

Tickityboo wrote: »

At the end of the day it's up to you to look after yourself.
I often drove the last departure on the 84n to Graystones at 04.00 and without fail as the bus was leaving people whould arrive.
If you are travelling such a distance you should arrive early instead of trying to ramm another pint down your neck!! . You can't expect Dublin Bus to try and get another bus out of thin air when they're not oblidged too.

Tickityboo

n97 mini wrote: »

Let us not forget that DB is run for the convenience of the staff and not the customers!

I wish!!

Tell that to my wife and kids!!.whom I very rarely see because of the crap hours i have to do.
Because of the working time directive and the fact that the nightlinks are rostered now as opposed to overtime is probably the reason for no other bus being provided.

elbon

Thanks for all the information folks, much appreciated. It would appear that the Nitelink service is indeed covered in the NTA contract and that the provision of auxilliary departures is also covered. As stated previously I did turn up on time for the scheduled departure and from the group of people standing on the road trying to get on an already full bus- it is fairly clear that an auxilliary departure was required. Absolutely no reflection on the driver of this bus as he was just trying to do his job but shame on the DB authorised decision maker on the street who felt this was an acceptable way to treat people- if it was not possible to provide an auxilliary departure, this could have been explained to people. No explanation was given.

Tickityboo

Re. The sarcarstic thankyou Foggy.
What do you expect Dublin Bus to do?
Have a bus on standby incase there are a few stragglers.
Then you would be moaning that they have a driver sitting around doing nothing.
Obiviously the demand on this night was greater than normal and byond their control.

soden12

Did we see swords Express providing this service ?

soden12

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

It was the middle of the night. A large group of young people were left stranded in the middle of the city without any money. This is a reckless, shameful thing to do.

Cool. If I'm in Swords and have drunk all my money then swords express will drop me into town for free. Or vice versa ?

soden12

foggy_lad wrote: »

The problem that night was the bus left early due to being full so arriving early for it would make little difference. From what I have read here there were significant numbers left stranded by Dublin bus at 4am many without cash for a taxi or nobody available at home to collect them. This is not good from a company like Dublin bus.

Why is this not good ?

If you're going into town to fill yourself with drink then have a backup plan. Most folk would ensure that they've bobs for a taxi es especially seeing as going for "the last bus" is often a euphemism for drinking until the bitter end.

I cannot understand why DB is somehow responsible for people overstaying their night out...

elbon

"Sarcastic thank you"?? No sarcasm meant- but perhaps a little nastiness on your part?? To be very clear (once again) it was not a case of a few stragglers- there were 10-15 people at the stop 5 minutes prior to the departure time. These were in addition to the ~77 people already on the bus. This is clearly an unforeseen increase in demand for a public service and the NTA contract allows that an auxilliary departure can be made in this instance. No-one has suggested that a bus should hang around on the off-chance of there being some stragglers- just being a smart a** methinks!

BenShermin

As a matter of interest does anybody know how many people were on the 0400hrs 66N. If there was room for the 10 to 15 passengers left behind than surely the inspectors on the ground could have got the driver of the 66N to do a run to Maynooth?

The words Buses may leave more frequently if demand dictates on the nitelink timetables seem to suggest that auxillary departures should take place and that no drunken soldier will be left behind once they arrive on time for their bus. I hope the people left behind make official complaints to Dublin Bus in the morning, as these words are borderline false advertising imo.

The poor folks that got left behind (and arrived on time for their bus according to the thread) not only faced a €30+ taxi fare, but they'll probably have to commute to work this morning on Network They Wrecked Lucan corridor buses. If Stillorgan and Blanch corridors are anything to go by I'd say it's a few more Dublin Bus customers back to the wheel of a car for the commute, and who the feck could blame them.

BenShermin

soden12 wrote: »

Why is this not good ?

If you're going into town to fill yourself with drink then have a backup plan. Most folk would ensure that they've bobs for a taxi es especially seeing as going for "the last bus" is often a euphemism for drinking until the bitter end.

I cannot understand why DB is somehow responsible for people overstaying their night out...

Hmmm, how did they overstay their night out if they were on time for their bus?

During the week I'll go to town for a few and finish at 2320 which gives me time to get to the bus stop five minutes before my last bus. In two years of doing this, I've yet to miss that last bus.

It's not an euphemism, it's a fact that people make it to the bus stop for the last bus because they don't want to be wasting money on taxis or they don't have the money.

Tickityboo

elbon wrote: »

"Sarcastic thank you"?? No sarcasm meant- but perhaps a little nastiness on your part?? To be very clear (once again) it was not a case of a few stragglers- there were 10-15 people at the stop 5 minutes prior to the departure time. These were in addition to the ~77 people already on the bus. This is clearly an unforeseen increase in demand for a public service and the NTA contract allows that an auxilliary departure can be made in this instance. No-one has suggested that a bus should hang around on the off-chance of there being some stragglers- just being a smart a** methinks!

The sarcastic thankyou was not aimed at you. I'm not trying to be nasty but you just can't expect buses to sprung out of nowhere!! I'm too thick to be a smart arse!! I'm just a bus driver after all.

Tickityboo

I'm off to bed now I just missed the last jockyback off my wife up the stairs.
Maybe I'll start a complaint thread about that in the morning!!

CIE

Well, if there's sufficient demand for 24-hour bus service in Dublin, why is it not run as such, and not limited to this Nitelink farce that's gone on for far too long...?

thomasj

In this case, is the 67n timetable misleading because it states "note: buses may depart more frequently if demand dictates"

KC61

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

You are blatantly trotting out your corporate agenda. Specifically in this case, you are defending the indefensible.

You think I need to be driving my own agenda to criticise a company which did something completely reckless.

I was not talking about legal obligations. I am talking about ordinary common decency. And why would DB not run an auxiliary service when it knows it is guaranteed by law to get paid for it?

Just to make this abundantly clear I have no corporate agenda in this regard. I have nothing to do with Dublin Bus other than being a daily customer.

I am merely an observer of public transport.

stop

Why didn't people just get a 25N to Lucan then share taxis onwards from there? Beats a taxi from town.

elbon

Some people did get the 25N but due to the lack of information, the 25N had already departed before some folks knew what was happening

liger

BenShermin wrote: »

As a matter of interest does anybody know how many people were on the 0400hrs 66N. If there was room for the 10 to 15 passengers left behind than surely the inspectors on the ground could have got the driver of the 66N to do a run to Maynooth?

Do you think the Driver of the 66N would be happy to take 10-15 people onto his bus that were acting in such a dangerous manner because the other bus was FULL???

BenShermin wrote: »

The words Buses may leave more frequently if demand dictates on the nitelink timetables seem to suggest that auxillary departures should take place and that no drunken soldier will be left behind once they arrive on time for their bus. I hope the people left behind make official complaints to Dublin Bus in the morning, as these words are borderline false advertising imo..

It says, MAY leave more Frequently. The days of having a spare driver hanging about are long gone. Only around xmas week they MAY have one spare driver for both donnybrook garages

BenShermin wrote: »

The poor folks that got left behind (and arrived on time for their bus according to the thread) not only faced a €30+ taxi fare, but they'll probably have to commute to work this morning on Network They Wrecked Lucan corridor buses. If Stillorgan and Blanch corridors are anything to go by I'd say it's a few more Dublin Bus customers back to the wheel of a car for the commute, and who the feck could blame them.

They arrived on time but the bus was full. How many threads are on this site about dangerous overcrowding on buses and the luas?? And if the bus is full there is no reason for it to wait till its departure time because nobody else can get on.

The reality is, people werent using the Nitelinks and the service was cut, Dublin bus has been cutting costs so no way will they allow a spare driver to sit there on fri/sat and do no work on the off chance it may be extra busy. Also Where at 3:50am on a saturday night is an Inspector on westmoreland street suppose to come up with an empty bus and extra driver??????

elbon

To be clear @liger, people were not expecting to get on an overcrowded bus- they were merely protesting at the lack of reasonable measures in place for an unforeseen increase in demand. This is a public service, paid for with our taxes and therefore contracted to serve the public and it is the right of any person in this country to protest. Nobody expects a spare bus to *hang* around but most companies have contingency plans in place for exceptional circumstances- so much so that it is written in to the contract between the department of transport and Dublin Bus. I have been using the nitelink service to Celbridge for the past six years (incidently, whilst the midweek service was cancelled, the weekend service is the same as it was prior to any DB restructuring-indicating by your logic that the weekend demand remains the same) and gave previously gotten an "auxilliary departure" when the last bus was filled prior to departure time. When pre-empting possible scenarios where a service may not meet the need of the customer, in this case increased demand is the most obvious- therefore you have a plan in place to avoid this-it's called a response plan-it's the pricincile by which major accidents are dealt with by emergency services- or would you think that you shouldn't expect an ambulance to be available *in case* you have an accident. Before you get offended by the comparison between bus services and emergency services- remember that the public service is there to do that- serve the public, and sometimes that means doing thins slightly different. How complacent and accepting we gave all become as to how our taxes are spent

liger

elbon wrote: »

To be clear @liger, people were not expecting to get on an overcrowded bus- they were merely protesting at the lack of reasonable measures in place for an unforeseen increase in demand

Unforeseen or unforeseeable????? Do you suggest the inspectors do a quick survey in pubs and clubs to see how many people plan to get the 04:00 bus to celbridge or maynooth??? Even when Oxygen was on and there was thousands of extra people in town getting nitelinks home there was no need for extra buses, so just what do you propose DB do to predict when they MAY need more space on the 04:00 journeys?

And when the midweek buses were cut the less used routes like 44/48/49 and 15 were cut back from every 30mins to every 60mins on fri/sat

Victor

Can we tone down the snide remarks about Swords Express? They aren't involved in this scenario.

While they don't provide a night service, can I ask Antoin what arrangement is in place if last bus is oversubscribed?

Someone mentioned that Dublin Bus will get paid if an additional departure is required. Is this information publicly available? Is this an extra amount? How is it calculated?

antoinolachtnai

Well, on our service, that never really happens, just because of the time it finishes.

We are anxious to provide late night services in the future though, on the new licence we have applied for.

If there were no alternative, we would have to bring the bus around again to get those people home if there were a lot of them. If there were only 15 people, and it was that time of night when the 'bump' of demand for taxis was gone past, it seems to me that arranging taxis would be the practical way to do it.

Under the PSC arrangements, DB is compensated in accordance with the expenses it actually incurs, plus an allowance for a profit. This is in the annex of EC regulation EC 1370/2007. If it needs to run an extra to meet the demand, it follows that it will be compensated.