Cadets 2010 - what a total farce

SamuelFox

I couldn’t belive the stuff I was hearing about the 2010 Cadet competition, and when I discovered it was true I had to post here.

Seriously, WTF happened? How on earth did such a farce occur? A day or so’s notice to attend medicals, then no clarity at all on for final offers, with the Army communicating via facebook or boards.ie? Less than two weeks notice before the reporting date? The delays blamed on the Minister? FFS, is this for real?

I know my views on the Defence Forces are negative, but surely the people who defend them have to be embarrassed by this? How do you justify treating troops like that? How do they justify professing loyalty to the state but pass the blame onto the Minister, who has no role in the Competition?

Can you seriously imagine this happening anywhere else?

The people I feel sympathy towards are the incoming Cadets. Despite the abundance of evidence to the contrary they put their faith into a supposedly professional organisation and went to huge efforts to pass the stages of the competition. At every turn they had to buy into the DF bull**** of “looking after the troops”, planning and organisation” etc. in reality they ended up learning more about the true side of the DF in this last month then they otherwise would’t have seen for a long time, and I hope they take this lesson onboard.

That aside, Best of luck to the Cadets of 2010.

Waste of money, they should take no one in for the next few years. Thread title is apt, Cadets 2010 - what a farce :cool:

ChunkyLover_53

Is there a source or link for this?

SamuelFox

I heard it from a DF Officer, but all the info is in the Cadets 2010 thread in the "military" board.

SamuelFox

RoverJames wrote: »

Waste of money, they should take no one in for the next few years. Thread title is apt, Cadets 2010 - what a farce :cool:

I agree, but if money is to be wasted on the Defence Forces we should at least have a fair, well run competition.

A billion quid every year is spent on the Defence Forces and this is an example of how well it is used.

ArdMhacha

Why the negative attitude towards the Defence Forces? Are you a former member?

ChunkyLover_53

I'm not overly familiar with that thread but from what you say the farce relates to,

1) Short notice to undergo a medical
2) No clarity on final offers <- This one I don't understand? people were unsure if they were sucsessful maybe?

3) Less than 2 weeks notice before reporting date - I don't see a problem there to be honest

4)DF using Facebook & boards.ie to communicate - Well Facebook is a bulliten board for them to be honest but I do agree with you about the use of this website AFAIK people are paid to man the Competition Section & Personnel Management Offices so that as far as I'm concerned should be the official point of contact especially around recruit time.

I would hardly call all of that farcical to be honest unless I'm missing something here

Doesn't the Minister sign the form giving permission to start the recruitment/training process? Isn't that his role in the Cadet/Recruitment process?

oregann

SamuelFox wrote: »

I couldn’t belive the stuff I was hearing about the 2010 Cadet competition, and when I discovered it was true I had to post here.

Seriously, WTF happened? How on earth did such a farce occur? A day or so’s notice to attend medicals, then no clarity at all on for final offers, with the Army communicating via facebook or boards.ie? Less than two weeks notice before the reporting date? The delays blamed on the Minister? FFS, is this for real?

I know my views on the Defence Forces are negative, but surely the people who defend them have to be embarrassed by this? How do you justify treating troops like that? How do they justify professing loyalty to the state but pass the blame onto the Minister, who has no role in the Competition?

Can you seriously imagine this happening anywhere else?

The people I feel sympathy towards are the incoming Cadets. Despite the abundance of evidence to the contrary they put their faith into a supposedly professional organisation and went to huge efforts to pass the stages of the competition. At every turn they had to buy into the DF bull**** of “looking after the troops”, planning and organisation” etc. in reality they ended up learning more about the true side of the DF in this last month then they otherwise would’t have seen for a long time, and I hope they take this lesson onboard.

That aside, Best of luck to the Cadets of 2010.

i was waiting for someone to flip out about it!

SamuelFox

I suppose the main point is that despite the huge importance of a place in the Cadets to the thousands of people who sought it, the Defence Forces made a total hash of running the competition and completely ignored the maxim of looking after the troops. From a military POV that’s a really serious error to make.

The second point is the lack of professionalism - the means of communication.

Finally, blaming the delay on the Minister is wrong – the DF should be more respectful to the Government – it’s a pretty basic rule of democracy, and even if the Minister was late in signing off (which I doubt) he can’t be blamed for the short notice for the medicals, which indicates the competition was poorly ran.

Basically, (correct me if I’m wrong in any details) the candidates went to the RDS to do an aptitude test, and from that a number were chosen to attend a 2-day assessment in the Curragh Camp, and from that a number were chosen for final interview. After the interviews a number were deemed “successful” and ranked. There were three separate competitions, one for each branch of the Defence Forces (Army, AC and Naval Service) and each had a number of places for Cadets – I’m not sure of the numbers.

Following the interviews about twice the number of cadets needed were called for medicals without being told their position on the list. They were given about a days notice to get a day off work and find their way to Dublin, stay overnight (both at their own expense) and report for a medical at about 7 in the morning.

At the medical they were told they would get the results in the next few days/weeks. However, the process dragged on and the Minister was blamed for delaying in signing off the results. This was communicated to the applicants on boards.ie and Facebook.

Eventually, yesterday evening they were rang and told the results.

Outside the Defence Forces and military community this might not seem like a big deal, but if you have an interest in defence you will see this as another example of how much of a joke the Irish Defence Forces are.

If you are an applicant on tender hooks waiting to be told the results you would care even more, especially if you are in the 50% or so that got bad news.

If you are a successful applicant and you have to go to your employer and give him/her a few days notice, it’s a pain, especially if you have good relations with your boss.

I’m not a huge fan of the Defence Forces, and I’ve posted here a lot discussing this. One of the issues I have is that of an arrogant attitude, and this process reeks of that.

Overall its another example of a redundant organisation displaying its chaotic inability to organise even the simplest thing.

ArdMhacha

ArdMhacha wrote: »

Why the negative attitude towards the Defence Forces? Are you a former member?

Directed at me I presume ?
No I'm not a former member as you put it. Can anyone justify why these cadets are required ? Surely the money would be better used by employing some more nurses or Gardai or something. The defence forces are a joke in Ireland.

ChunkyLover_53

SamuelFox wrote: »

I suppose the main point is that despite the huge importance of a place in the Cadets to the thousands of people who sought it...........................................................................

Ok now I'm with ya, thanks for clearing that up.

Were complaints made or is it just an officer venting frustration?

ChunkyLover_53

RoverJames wrote: »

Directed at me I presume ?
No I'm not a former member as you put it. Can anyone justify why these cadets are required ? Surely the money would be better used by employing some more nurses or Gardai or something. The defence forces are a joke in Ireland.

Not much they can do about it with a sh1tty budget and regulations dating back to the 1930s and no one in Government or General Staff seems to give a fook about a defence force anyway.

Another decade of stagnation is on the way for them after the clusterfcuk that was this week in Ireland

Money would be better spent on recruiting more general service recruits TBH

unclecessna

SamuelFox wrote: »

I suppose the main point is that despite the huge importance of a place in the Cadets to the thousands of people who sought it, the Defence Forces made a total hash of running the competition and completely ignored the maxim of looking after the troops. From a military POV that’s a really serious error to make.

The second point is the lack of professionalism - the means of communication.

Finally, blaming the delay on the Minister is wrong – the DF should be more respectful to the Government – it’s a pretty basic rule of democracy, and even if the Minister was late in signing off (which I doubt) he can’t be blamed for the short notice for the medicals, which indicates the competition was poorly ran.

Basically, (correct me if I’m wrong in any details) the candidates went to the RDS to do an aptitude test, and from that a number were chosen to attend a 2-day assessment in the Curragh Camp, and from that a number were chosen for final interview. After the interviews a number were deemed “successful” and ranked. There were three separate competitions, one for each branch of the Defence Forces (Army, AC and Naval Service) and each had a number of places for Cadets – I’m not sure of the numbers.

Following the interviews about twice the number of cadets needed were called for medicals without being told their position on the list. They were given about a days notice to get a day off work and find their way to Dublin, stay overnight (both at their own expense) and report for a medical at about 7 in the morning.

At the medical they were told they would get the results in the next few days/weeks. However, the process dragged on and the Minister was blamed for delaying in signing off the results. This was communicated to the applicants on boards.ie and Facebook.

Eventually, yesterday evening they were rang and told the results.

Outside the Defence Forces and military community this might not seem like a big deal, but if you have an interest in defence you will see this as another example of how much of a joke the Irish Defence Forces are.

If you are an applicant on tender hooks waiting to be told the results you would care even more, especially if you are in the 50% or so that got bad news.

If you are a successful applicant and you have to go to your employer and give him/her a few days notice, it’s a pain, especially if you have good relations with your boss.

I’m not a huge fan of the Defence Forces, and I’ve posted here a lot discussing this. One of the issues I have is that of an arrogant attitude, and this process reeks of that.

Overall its another example of a redundant organisation displaying its chaotic inability to organise even the simplest thing.

Agreed, guys most of this is really nothing new with the Defence Forces Cadetship competition.

I've gone through many selection type competitions including the Defence Forces Cadets over the years and the laziest and most amateurish by a long, long chalk was the Defence Forces.... they talk big but when it comes to the crunch more often than not drag their heels and smear their own reputation in doing so without seeming to even care. A further indication of the ignorance and arrogance of the public service in recent years.

Some here will say I'm bitter, I was once but frankly I have a more interesting career as a result so in a way I owe then but what frustrates me is the shabby way they treat young, keen and strong applicants such as I once was with the antics illustrated above by another poster.

I went through the ultra short notice letters arriving through the door saying fitness test next week - didn't matter if you were in Timbuktu at the time, if you weren't able to make it then too bad you got cut. That is unless you were the son of a serving army officer as a school mate of mine was who managed to have strings pulled so he could do it several weeks later surprise surprise....(in his case so he could have time to get in shape for it, the guy wasn't the athletic/sporting type)

I myself ended up as a substitute for the Air Corps, got the letter saying a reserve panel has been formed we will get back to you. Several long months later a letter arrives from the OIC of Competitions section dated a whole month before I actually got the letter which itself was a bad photocopy, the text at a near 30 degree angle, my name spelled wrong - giving me the bad news and not even signed by the Officer despite a space on the page obviously allotted for it. To me it was a metaphorical middle finger, the guy simply didn't give a damn to actually sit down and spend five minutes signing these letters as he is obviously being paid to do.

I was younger and naiver at the time, if it were to happen to me today I would have sent the letter to the Minister for Defence with a formal complaint at the complete lack of professionalism and respect for both myself and the other candidates in my position who received that trash.

To those guys and girls who got shabbily treated recently I know that it stings like a b1tch now but don't let it get you down, in a few years you will see the whole thing for what it really is. I've met plenty of Officers in the Defence Forces since I applied several years back and though some are really great there are equally those that don't even fit the criteria of attributes candidates need for a cadetship as laid out in the information booklets and yet they got in. Take what you will from that.

oncevotedff

SamuelFox wrote: »

I couldn’t belive the stuff I was hearing about the 2010 Cadet competition, and when I discovered it was true I had to post here....

Did you really have to?

1. Prospective cadets are not "troops". They are civilians to whom the DF has no obligation.

2. Those who applied for a cadetship should make themselves available for every stage of the selection process at short notice. If they have other commitments, well maybe the DF is not the career for them. If they need a month's notice to perform a simple task the DF is definitely not for them. Certainly anyone who was successful and received two weeks notice of their reporting date had plenty of time to get in their last holiday for some time.:D

3. What difference does it make what means the DF uses to communicate with the applicants as long as the applicants are aware of the method. Anything would be more effective than An Post.

4. If you need to slag off the DF then at least come up with something better than this.

ChunkyLover_53

If a civilian has a complaint to make about the process is there an appeals board they can contact or could they contact the office of the Ombudsman/woman directly?

unclecessna

oncevotedff wrote: »

Did you really have to?

1. Prospective cadets are not "troops". They are civilians to whom the DF has no obligation.

2. Those who applied for a cadetship should make themselves available for every stage of the selection process at short notice. If they have other commitments, well maybe the DF is not the career for them. If they need a month's notice to perform a simple task the DF is definitely not for them. Certainly anyone who was successful and received two weeks notice of their reporting date had plenty of time to get in their last holiday for some time.:D

3. What difference does it make what means the DF uses to communicate with the applicants as long as the applicants are aware of the method. Anything would be more effective than An Post.

4. If you need to slag off the DF then at least come up with something better than this.

1. I would disagree with that - that's an ignorant and simplistic ''black and white'' way of viewing the situation. They do. If no civilians were to apply they would be up sh1t creek very fast. The fact is it's a matter of a lack of respect on the part of the Defence Forces for the candidates some of whom at the end of the day will provide them a basis for their continued existence.

2. Again a black and white, unrealistic way of viewing the situation. I would have thought that the stronger contenders for a cadetship would actually be out there in the big bad world showing their own initiatives by doing something other than waiting by the postbox at home e.g. J1 Visa working in the States, '' '' '' working in Australia, volunteering in far flung locations such as Africa, South America and so on..or even working at home for that matter if they can find the work - you get the picture.

It's not so simple to be working away someplace half-way around the world from Ireland and just being paid enough to keep ones head above water to up sticks at ultra short notice and fork out for a plane ticket home costing anywhere between a 1 to 4 k. And furthermore that is if you can even get a flight before the date in question.

It just shows an ignorance and lack of forward planning on the part of the DF decision makers.

3. Facebook and boards.ie are not official communications channels for such matters. It shows a lack of professionalism.

4. It's not a matter of trying to find a reason to ''slag'' off the Defence Forces. They have achieved several reasons to be strongly criticised in this respect all by themselves through the points already made in this thread.

lapsed

RoverJames wrote: »

Directed at me I presume ?
No I'm not a former member as you put it. Can anyone justify why these cadets are required ? Surely the money would be better used by employing some more nurses or Gardai or something. The defence forces are a joke in Ireland.

Are they really ? In what way exactly ? The current delays are a direct result of last minuit approval having to be given for recruitment of cadets so that a process that began early in the year now begins in Sept/Oct. In what way are the DF responsible for the corrupt financial mess the country is now in ? I should have thought that the DF are a shining example of an organ of the state that is in many ways above reproach.

gizmo555

oncevotedff wrote: »

1. Prospective cadets are not "troops". They are civilians to whom the DF has no obligation.

They are citizens appying to join their country's defence forces which has an obligation to treat them in the course of the application & selection process reasonably, fairly, and with basic courtesy & respect.

If half of what is asserted in this thread is true, the DF failed abysmally to meet any of these obligations.

Kinza

unclecessna wrote:

2. Again a black and white, unrealistic way of viewing the situation. I would have thought that the stronger contenders for a cadetship would actually be out there in the big bad world showing their own initiatives by doing something other than waiting by the postbox at home e.g. J1 Visa working in the States, '' '' '' working in Australia, volunteering in far flung locations such as Africa, South America and so on..or even working at home for that matter if they can find the work - you get the picture.

I don't think this is a very good point really. As someone who took part in this years cadet competition I can only speak for myself, but if I was still in with a chance of being offered a cadetship last week I doubt I would be off around the world doing the things you have mentioned. Everyone who applied would have had an idea of the various stages and how long the application process takes and would have been prepared for that. Infact I had been in Australia before applying for the cadetship and had always planned to come home to give the cadetship a real go if it was run which is what I did.

I didn't make it the final interviews and medicals so I can only comment on the application process up until the assessment stage in the Curragh but I never felt I was being messed around and will happily apply again next year if a cadet competition is run, especially now I have had the experience and feel I can prepare better for next time. It was made pretty clear to us at the various stages when the next stage would take place so candidates always had an idea when they may be needed if successful.

Of course being made to wait an extra week to hear if they were successful wasn't ideal but its not that bad is it? I'd have happily waited one more week for something as important as a cadetship and the same goes for the short notice to attend for training.

PeterIanStaker

lapsed wrote: »

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Are they really ? In what way exactly ? The current delays are a direct result of last minuit approval having to be given for recruitment of cadets so that a process that began early in the year now begins in Sept/Oct. In what way are the DF responsible for the corrupt financial mess the country is now in ? I should have thought that the DF are a shining example of an organ of the state that is in many ways above reproach.

Well said that man. F**k the begrudgers!

Delancey

The country is virtually bankrupt and should not be recruiting cadets at all - my cynical take is that it is done to keep senior officers sweet - a disturbingly high proportion of cadets are the sons/daughters of serving officers - '' Canvassing Will Disqualify '' - bollox !

lapsed

delancey42 wrote: »

The country is virtually bankrupt and should not be recruiting cadets at all - my cynical take is that it is done to keep senior officers sweet - a disturbingly high proportion of cadets are the sons/daughters of serving officers - '' Canvassing Will Disqualify '' - bollox !

In my sons class of 42 only six were related to serving members. Several of his school acquaintances were turned down at the interview stage despite being related. (By acquaintances I mean lads he'd played sport against and so on, not his actual school.)
The country is not bankrupt... it has been almost bankrupted , but 85% of the population is still working and a lot of them are in relatively well paid jobs. There is no example that I know of where a nation in financial difficulties dismantles the fabric of the state - a permanent effect - in response to a temporary difficulty.

SIRREX

unclecessna wrote: »

and fork out for a plane ticket home costing anywhere between a 1 to 4 k.

And you're saying you wouldn't lead the complaints if the DF were daft enough to pay applicants travel costs, from anywhere in the world, to attend the medicals or interview's

lapsed

lapsed wrote: »

[/COLOR][/B][/COLOR]


Are they really ? In what way exactly ? The current delays are a direct result of last minuit approval having to be given for recruitment of cadets so that a process that began early in the year now begins in Sept/Oct. In what way are the DF responsible for the corrupt financial mess the country is now in ? I should have thought that the DF are a shining example of an organ of the state that is in many ways above reproach.

Are they really ? In what way exactly ?

PeterIanStaker wrote: »

Well said that man. F**k the begrudgers!

Begrudgers ? Did it ever enter your mind that some folk can make their own way in life, we don't need to be told what time to get up, how to iron our clothes, shine our shoes, what time to eat, sh1t and p1ss.

lapsed

RoverJames wrote: »

Are they really ? In what way exactly ?





Begrudgers ? Did it ever enter your mind that some folk can make their own way in life, we don't need to be told what time to get up, how to iron our clothes, shine our shoes, what time to eat, sh1t and p1ss.

Have you wandered on to the military thread by mistake ? All on your own, of course... no question of having to be directed here, no sireee !

Poccington

RoverJames wrote: »

Begrudgers ? Did it ever enter your mind that some folk can make their own way in life, we don't need to be told what time to get up, how to iron our clothes, shine our shoes, what time to eat, sh1t and p1ss.

You're dead right, by serving in the DF you just become part of the machine man.

I'm sure when you work, you don't answer to anyone. A modern day renegade, if you will.

Shine on, you crazy diamond!

concussion

RoverJames wrote: »

Are they really ? In what way exactly?

Ever since the PWC report the DF have delivered more and more with less and less - there are many governmental departments who could pay heed to their achievements. The 2 or 3 Bde. structure and the officer:enlisted ratio are two areas where more savings could[i/] be made, but I don't think it would make a huge difference.

pablomakaveli

I went through the cadet recruitment process as far as the curragh (i didnt get called for the interview) and from my experiences it thought it was fine. I think i had a weeks notice for the assesment tests in croke park and a week before the curragh which was plenty of time to organize time of work,travel accomadation etc.

I don't see any problem with that time limit as with any job application process you could be called for an interview at short notice. If you want it bad enough it won't matter.

I thought we were well looked after up in the curragh as well. I did'nt feel at any stage that there was anything farcical about the process anyway.

If there was any delay in the minister signing off on the cadets i think it should be understandable given the current ongoing crisis in the country.

bythesea

As anyone who was actually involved in the competition this year will know, everyone who made it passed the aptitude test was given a dedicated phone number to contact the competitions section directly if they had any issues with dates or any questions what so ever.

I myself had to change the date for my interview and there was absolutely no problem with this.

At the completion of every stage you are given specific dates when the next stage will take place and if people were unaware of these they must not have been listening or didn't bother to ask.

Waiting to get confirmation was a pain but I would imagine it was just as annoying for the competitions section as it was for us. From the sounds of it their hands were tied even though they had selected the class a few weeks ago.

Finally, no one had to rely on boards/facebook for information. The post made by the DF was a friendly message to ease the minds of those who were waiting to hear.

This post is 100% true and can be verified by anyone here who was actually involved in this cadetship competition.

Poccington

Poccington wrote: »

You're dead right, by serving in the DF you just become part of the machine man.

I'm sure when you work, you don't answer to anyone. A modern day renegade, if you will.

Shine on, you crazy diamond!

Is that part of the brainwashing training ye get in there ? Non military folks have to put up with this sort of degrading sh1t too :rolleyes: Not too much jam on my toast now, and press my trousers just the way I like them too.

lol at this too
"In my sons class of 42 only six were related to serving members"

1 in 7 is a fairly high rate of nepotism unless that same ratio is reflected in the applicants.

concussion

RoverJames wrote: »

lol at this too
"In my sons class of 42 only six were related to serving members"

1 in 7 is a fairly high rate of nepotism unless that same ratio is reflected in the applicants.

There will always be a high ratio of Cadets (and GS recruits) with serving or ex-serving relatives simply because they come from military families. Not only will there be a high amount of these applicants, they will also have much more information on the assessment process and a better understanding of military life. An applicant with a serving relative gets a position because they are high quality candidates, not because of who daddy knows.


To those who were actually in the Cadetship process, thanks for sharing your experiences.

concussion

concussion wrote: »

An applicant with a serving relative gets a position because they are high quality candidates, not because of who daddy knows.

Yeah, course they do.

lapsed

RoverJames wrote: »

1 in 7 is a fairly high rate of nepotism unless that same ratio is reflected in the applicants.

If you'd read the post you'd have seen where I specifically said that children of serving officers failed to make it through the process.
As a matter of interest does your highly evolved sense of ethics apply to doctors,lawyers and so on ? Or just the DF ?

lapsed

lapsed wrote: »

If you'd read the post you'd have seen where I specifically said that children of serving officers failed to make it through the process.
As a matter of interest does your highly evolved sense of ethics apply to doctors,lawyers and so on ? Or just the DF ?

Of course some of their children won't make it in, is that the best you can come up with ? Unless the ratio of 1 in 7 is reflected in the applicants than there is no doubt nepotism at work.

To be a doctor one must get the Leaving Cert points first which the parents can't do a great deal about really, grinds grinds and more grinds won't get you the points for medicine unless you are fairly bright anyway. Law is no doubt riddled with nepotism and encouraging the kn0b ends too, to get deviling who your folks are plays a huge part unfortunately.

So to summarise, would you agree that the entry to DF cadetships is not entirely a level playing field ? The way in which you attack my sense of ethics seems to suggest that you have no issue with nepotism.

delta720

RoverJames wrote: »

Of course some of their children won't make it in, is that the best you can come up with ? Unless the ratio of 1 in 7 is reflected in the applicants than there is no doubt nepotism at work.

To be a doctor one must get the Leaving Cert points first which the parents can't do a great deal about really, grinds grinds and more grinds won't get you the points for medicine unless you are fairly bright anyway. Law is no doubt riddled with nepotism and encouraging the kn0b ends too, to get deviling who your folks are plays a huge part unfortunately.

So to summarise, would you agree that the entry to DF cadetships is not entirely a level playing field ? The way in which you attack my sense of ethics seems to suggest that you have no issue with nepotism.

Do you think that there should be a box to tick on the application form "Was/Is your Daddy a member of the DF?" and then there should only be a proportional amount of cadetships given to children of members?

Of course they go in with an advantage having spent their entire lives growing up with military people around them, but if a canditate from a non-military background isn't able to overcome that small disadvantage without crying, then they're probably not fit enough for cadet training anyway.

However I think for the most part the days of 'Daddy' having a word with his mate to get his son in are gone. Yet I'm sure once your in, just like any other job, who you know can help with your career progression.

BostonB

lapsed wrote: »

If you'd read the post you'd have seen where I specifically said that children of serving officers failed to make it through the process.
As a matter of interest does your highly evolved sense of ethics apply to doctors,lawyers and so on ? Or just the DF ?

I thought I heard a while back (I could be wrong) that they had to change how they recruit for medicine, as the points got so high, and there was so much interest from non-Irish that a lot of Irish doctors kids hadn't a chance of getting in. It also resulted in a lot of doctors without any real empathy for medicine, or patients being created.

While it makes perfect sense that people from a military background are more likely to apply and know what is required and thus a higher % get through. Thats just logical.

But I remember back in the early 90's a friend being quizzed by his dad after his cadet interview, about how many family and school connections he'd been asked about in his interview. I was just staggered about how much they asked about that. That said he didn't get in.

Happens a lot in many industries.

delta720

delta720 wrote: »

Do you think that there should be a box to tick on the application form "Was/Is your Daddy a member of the DF?" and then there should only be a proportional amount of cadetships given to children of members?.

No, I think what their ole lad does should have f all to do with it, if that was the case though I don't think the 1 in 7 ratio would be seen in cadets. No doubt it would for the ordinary ranks.

Kingdom_of _oriel

Hello All first post here.

I think the best thing that could happen the defence forces would be to end off the street cadetships for all 3 branches. There are a great many capable and dedicated soldiers especially NCO's that could and should be trained to Officer standard. It would be a great deal more economical for the defence forces to utilise already trained and experienced soldiers and take that training one step further and commission them as officers.
As a former member of the defence forces I just cannot justify the expense to train a civilian straight off the street. I also feel that the cailber of Officers being produced would be to a much higher standard. With the defence forces limited budget and size it makes logical sense.
One might argue that a great many of these civilians have degrees, however a career soldier could attain a degree on his or her own merit or even with the assistance of the defence forces in an area that was benifical for the defence forces.

Thats my own views, please feel free to discuss. Cheers.

concussion

RoverJames wrote: »

Yeah, course they do.

So do you believe that outstanding candidates, with no connections, are passed over in favour of weak candidates because of who they know?

Networking and connections are everything in business, and the DF is no difference. However, that just gets you into the competition - it's up to the individual to prove that they have the aptitude to do the job.

concussion

concussion wrote: »

So do you believe that outstanding candidates, with no connections, are passed over in favour of weak candidates because of who they know? .

You're going to extremes now :rolleyes:

concussion

Not really - if a canditate was very strong and also the relative of a serving member it would be very difficult to say they got a position because of who they know.

However, a weak candidate who had a serving relative was awarded a Cadetship then it is quite easy to say it was nepotism.

You forgot to answer my question by the way.

PeterIanStaker

RoverJames wrote: »

Begrudgers ? Did it ever enter your mind that some folk can make their own way in life, we don't need to be told what time to get up, how to iron our clothes, shine our shoes, what time to eat, sh1t and p1ss.

Made me laugh anyway:D:D
Talk to Joe . . . .

concussion

concussion wrote: »

You forgot to answer my question by the way.

I believe there are numerous cadets and high ranking officers in the DF forces who would not be there for the fact that they were related to some other high ranker, and other, better candidates suffered as a result.

unclecessna

SIRREX wrote: »

And you're saying you wouldn't lead the complaints if the DF were daft enough to pay applicants travel costs, from anywhere in the world, to attend the medicals or interview's

1. You missed my point completely.

2. Did I say that the Defence Forces should cover candidates travel expenses...? No, I did not. Your clutching at straws to find a way to counter argue the issue.

If the Cadet panel actually had their acts together then they would be able to inform candidates in advance of the various selection dates such as most professional (and might I add busier) organisations seem to be able to do with little difficulty.

And I don't buy the excuse that the whole thing was rushed this year - it's always been like this in my experience. In fact the Defence Forces would have more lead time with matters like this than most.

SIRREX

unclecessna wrote: »

1. You missed my point completely.

2. Did I say that the Defence Forces should cover candidates travel expenses...? No, I did not. Your clutching at straws to find a way to counter argue the issue.

well you were the one who expressed outrage at the possible cost of flying back from, in your example, Australia

If the Cadet panel actually had their acts together then they would be able to inform candidates in advance of the various selection dates such as most professional (and might I add busier) organisations seem to be able to do with little difficulty.

As bythesea said in post29 "At the completion of every stage you are given specific dates when the next stage will take place and if people were unaware of these they must not have been listening or didn't bother to ask."


And I don't buy the excuse that the whole thing was rushed this year - it's always been like this in my experience. In fact the Defence Forces would have more lead time with matters like this than most.

I really don't care if you buy it or not. The fact is that recruitment of cadets was held up by government inaction on giving the go ahead for actually going ahead with the training of cadets. And before that there was the delay in announcing the competition at all , due to the embargo on recruitment and promotion. Usually the cadet competition is announced very early and the process progresses with a very predictable pace

frankgallagher

I believe there are numerous cadets and high ranking officers in the DF forces who would not be there for the fact that they were related to some other high ranker, and other, better candidates suffered as a result.

and what information have you at your disposal that allows you to make these wonderfully insightful conclusions? have you personal experience? access to some confidential material?

concussion

RoverJames wrote: »

I believe there are numerous cadets and high ranking officers in the DF forces who would not be there for the fact that they were related to some other high ranker, and other, better candidates suffered as a result.

I don't doubt that there are high ranking officers who are in due to connections - things are different these days though. Incidentally, if these officers are indeed high ranking, then they must be pretty good at the job or they wouldn't have gotten past Comdt.

I would be interested to see how many applicants come from military families, I'd wager it's higher than the 1 in 7 successful candidates who have connections.

ZULU9niner

Kingdom_of _oriel wrote: »

Hello All first post here.

I think the best thing that could happen the defence forces would be to end off the street cadetships for all 3 branches. There are a great many capable and dedicated soldiers especially NCO's that could and should be trained to Officer standard. It would be a great deal more economical for the defence forces to utilise already trained and experienced soldiers and take that training one step further and commission them as officers.
As a former member of the defence forces I just cannot justify the expense to train a civilian straight off the street. I also feel that the cailber of Officers being produced would be to a much higher standard. With the defence forces limited budget and size it makes logical sense.
One might argue that a great many of these civilians have degrees, however a career soldier could attain a degree on his or her own merit or even with the assistance of the defence forces in an area that was benifical for the defence forces.

Thats my own views, please feel free to discuss. Cheers.

Second that. Nice post

frankgallagher

frankgallagher wrote: »

and what information have you at your disposal that allows you to make these wonderfully insightful conclusions? have you personal experience? access to some confidential material?

See the post below yours
Do you reckon there is no rot, nepotism etc in the DFs? Honestly ??

concussion

You're a high ranking officer who got in because of daddy?

jenny jinks

I work in a solicitors practice and I have a brother in the army. i rexckon that there are a lot more legal families than there are military families. There are families where there are solicitors, barristers and judges related every which way. Fathers, mothers, aunts, uncles, brothers, sisters, cousins, in laws etc.
There are plenty of sons and daughters of senior officers who have not been let into the cadets.
In many walks of life there are family traditions.There are families of teachers and nurses as well as families of builders and farmers.