Dole whats a fair cut

fergiesfav

This will be controversial I know but here it goes. The unemployed (not including carer single mothers pensioners who r not able too work) dont contribute to the economy. Why should they get so much off the tax payer? I think a 33% cut should be implemented. Mybe no cut for the 1st 6 months to get adjusted but then cut by a 3rd. Might be unpopular but would make people stop sitting around getting soft money and go get a job. Everybody should be able to get a job within 6 months of unemployment.

Inquitus

I would leave it at 200 euros for the first 12 months for anyone who has a few years stamps, and slowly degrade it down to about 70 euros for anyone out of work for 5 years or more.

chucken1

fergiesfav wrote: »

This will be controversial I know but here it goes. The unemployed (not including carer single mothers pensioners who r not able too work) dont contribute to the economy. Why should they get so much off the tax payer? I think a 33% cut should be implemented. Mybe no cut for the 1st 6 months to get adjusted but then cut by a 3rd. Might be unpopular but would make people stop sitting around getting soft money and go get a job. Everybody should be able to get a job within 6 months of unemployment.[/QUOTE]

HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! Really??? :rolleyes:

chucken1

Inquitus wrote: »

I would leave it at 200 euros for the first 12 months for anyone who has a few years stamps, and slowly degrade it down to about 70 euros for anyone out of work for 5 years or more.

Its actually 196 euro..ya the 4euro makes a differece!

thetonynator

Working for years doesnt entitle you to years of dole - there should be a system where ts not a set payment, each case is looked at from every angle of past income, mortgage, child benefit, etc. and payment decided after that, There is no way a house hold should get more than 25k a year, minimum wage should be considerably higher than the combined social welfare payments. ( although when the dole comes way down, minimum wage should drop a bit as well . . .)

33% cut??

Will you take a 33% wage cut?

thetonynator

rarnes1 wrote: »

33% cut??

Will you take a 33% wage cut?

Wages are worked for, the dole isn't.

And btw, a lot of people already have taken that cut, those on the dole havent.

MagicMarker

Cutting 30% of the dole when there are no jobs?

Yeah real smart move there.

fergiesfav

chucken1 wrote: »

HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! Really??? :rolleyes:

Yes I was out of work for 3 months after losing my job

rarnes1 wrote: »

33% cut??

Will you take a 33% wage cut?

Ive taken more then that Lost my job earning 550+ a week I now make 260 a week 290 on a good week.

thetonynator

thetonynator wrote: »

Wages are worked for, the dole isn't.

Silly statement

demakinz

If they drop it any more than €20 il be living in a tent!

dirtyghettokid

was dole not around €150 in 2005 when times were good? dole should be cut back a bit, but the cost of living has to come down also.

zootroid

I would be more interested in cutting other forms of social welfare, children's allowance for example. But it should definitely be cut. I would think 160 a week is fair

testicle

50% to start.

dirtyghettokid

it's easy for non recipients to claim whats fair....the people who work hard want the dole sliced in half. the people who need it, want it to remain where it is.... it's a tough call really.

chucken1

zootroid wrote: »

I would be more interested in cutting other forms of social welfare, children's allowance for example. But it should definitely be cut. I would think 160 a week is fair

Which means no fuel for the winter..in reality! Not everyone gets fuel allowence you know? Me included.

namloc1980

dirtyghettokid wrote: »

was dole not around €150 in 2005 when times were good? dole should be cut back a bit, but the cost of living has to come down also.

Yes the dole was increased to €149 in 2005. It should be cut back...it went from €149 to €200 in just a few years. Time for it to go back down by a big chunk.

delly

thetonynator wrote: »

Wages are worked for, the dole isn't.

Any idea what the I stands for in PRSI? How much and how long you pay this 'I' determines what dole your entitled too, so your wrong on that point.

johnn

What happened to making them sweep the streets etc for it? I thought that was a positive step being taken by the government but of course it came to nothing :rolleyes: I'd wager most of them on it for over a year could have gotten work if they tried.

wicorthered

I'd start with an across the board cut to all SW in the upcoming budget say somewhere between 5-7.5%. Accompanying that would be the introduction of a welfare cap where no family could claim excess of 17,000 in welfare. I would then ring fence all welfare where the recipient is unable get a job e.g pensioner or carer. Then from next Decembers budget I would cut 10% for every year out of work so 2 years out of work 20%, 4 years 40% up to a 50% cut in dole payments. I think this will weed out people sponging off the state and encourage people to maybe take that job they feel is below them (I know these people exist through experience with friends). I would strongly police welfare payments and have a drastic clamp down on illegitimate claims e.g lone parents living with their partners.

zootroid

chucken1 wrote: »

Which means no fuel for the winter..in reality! Not everyone gets fuel allowence you know? Me included.

Does it really? Did people go without fuel for the winter 5 years ago when the dole was 150?

Humans eh!

fergiesfav wrote: »

This will be controversial I know but here it goes. The unemployed (not including carer single mothers pensioners who r not able too work) dont contribute to the economy. Why should they get so much off the tax payer? I think a 33% cut should be implemented. Mybe no cut for the 1st 6 months to get adjusted but then cut by a 3rd. Might be unpopular but would make people stop sitting around getting soft money and go get a job. Everybody should be able to get a job within 6 months of unemployment.

Do you really think 33% is Fair! ....really.... why not make it 100% then we could all starve to death and you wouldn't have to worry. People like you have no problem having your tax money being siphoned off by a criminal banking elite, but oh no! the victims of the mismanagement of the economy.........
Who the hell wants to be unemployed! I am out of work for two years now and believe me it gets harder to find work the longer you are out of it, I have more PFO's than you have had smug dinners, there is plenty of work if you are willing to be ripped off and work for a pittance, I worked for €5 an hour (To get adjusted, as you seem to quaintly put it) for ages after losing my job and got taken advantage of and couldn't support my family.

There are no jobs being created !!!!!
Those that are are mainly in |Dublin and are offset bu job losses elsewhere Wake up!

Its the skangers who are content in their corpo houses and scratchin around who form the image of the unemployed (especially yours) but those of us who spend two or three days a week without a penny because we are paying off bank loans under threat of prosecution etc and refuse to turn to crime etc are a silent group that people like you seem to tar with a large condescending brush, believe me this country is heading for the toilet and you better pray that your high horse doesn't get swept from under you.

I pay my way and all my dole goes back into the economy, I'm sure the supermarkets will reduce my food shopping bill by 33% once your rules come into force and my children will make do with 33% less clothes and school books. Yeah us unemployed are livin the high life!
You make me really angry with your ridiculous suggestions.

You really don't know whats around the corner pal so be careful what you wish for, it could happen to you, even the bloated self important and frankly useless public service is in for a rude awakening very soon, there are over 400,000 people who are struggling daily and listening to crap like this from fools like you, spend a month in my shoes and see how you cope.

And while your at it come over and explain to my children why christmas will be frugal this year because I stay awake worrying about every bill and expense that comes in.
The desperation and suffering that is out here in real Ireland is a real issue and not one that should be taken lightly, I fear for the future.. you should too.

dirtyghettokid

dirtyghettokid wrote: »

it's easy for non recipients to claim whats fair....the people who work hard want the dole sliced in half. the people who need it, want it to remain where it is.... it's a tough call really.

I work hard but I still wouldnt like to see the dole slashed.

It should be cut yeah but if you cut too much you are going to create a bigger problem.

byebye

Humans eh! wrote: »

Do you really think 33% is Fair! ....really.... why not make it 100% then we could all starve to death and you wouldn't have to worry. People like you have no problem having your tax money being siphoned off by a criminal banking elite, but oh no! the victims of the mismanagement of the economy.........
Who the hell wants to be unemployed! I am out of work for two years now and believe me it gets harder to find work the longer you are out of it, I have more PFO's than you have had smug dinners, there is plenty of work if you are willing to be ripped off and work for a pittance, I worked for €5 an hour (To get adjusted, as you seem to quaintly put it) for ages after losing my job and got taken advantage of and couldn't support my family.

There are no jobs being created !!!!!
Those that are are mainly in |Dublin and are offset bu job losses elsewhere Wake up!

Its the skangers who are content in their corpo houses and scratchin around who form the image of the unemployed (especially yours) but those of us who spend two or three days a week without a penny because we are paying off bank loans under threat of prosecution etc and refuse to turn to crime etc are a silent group that people like you seem to tar with a large condescending brush, believe me this country is heading for the toilet and you better pray that your high horse doesn't get swept from under you.

I pay my way and all my dole goes back into the economy, I'm sure the supermarkets will reduce my food shopping bill by 33% once your rules come into force and my children will make do with 33% less clothes and school books. Yeah us unemployed are livin the high life!
You make me really angry with your ridiculous suggestions.

You really don't know whats around the corner pal so be careful what you wish for, it could happen to you, even the bloated self important and frankly useless public service is in for a rude awakening very soon, there are over 400,000 people who are struggling daily and listening to crap like this from fools like you, spend a month in my shoes and see how you cope.

And while your at it come over and explain to my children why christmas will be frugal this year because I stay awake worrying about every bill and expense that comes in.
The desperation and suffering that is out here in real Ireland is a real issue and not one that should be taken lightly, I fear for the future.. you should too.

Very well said!!! Some people have no idea!

thetonynator

rarnes1 wrote: »

Silly statement

If you're going to make stupid comments without any reason or backup, at least make something interesting or funny.

delly wrote: »

Any idea what the I stands for in PRSI? How much and how long you pay this 'I' determines what dole your entitled too, so your wrong on that point.

So at what point does the dole stop? Never. You are entitled to dole until the day you become entitled for state pension. So clearly you are worng here not me.

Humans eh! wrote: »

, I worked for €5 an hour (To get adjusted, as you seem to quaintly put it) for ages after losing my job and got taken advantage of and couldn't support my family.

Where did you work for that money? Minimum wage is .63 or so, so if you were working for that money you were probably drawing the dole as well, which is illegal.

Humans eh! wrote: »

,
There are no jobs being created !!!!!
Those that are are mainly in |Dublin and are offset bu job losses elsewhere Wake up!

People move jobs, new shops open, people retire, there are part time jobs and 3 days a week jobs avialble, where you can draw the dole for the days that you don't work.

Humans eh! wrote: »

,
I pay my way and all my dole goes back into the economy, I'm sure the supermarkets will reduce my food shopping bill by 33% once your rules come into force and my children will make do with 33% less clothes and school books. Yeah us unemployed are livin the high life!
You make me really angry with your ridiculous suggestions.

Can you point out some money that doesnt go back into the economy? Even savings are eventually spent. Also, does all your money go into the irish economy? Do you only buy irish goods and services? Cos i know mine don't. Its impossible for you to do that, so lots of your dole money leaves the irish economy.

brian ireland

fergiesfav wrote: »

This will be controversial I know but here it goes. The unemployed (not including carer single mothers pensioners who r not able too work) dont contribute to the economy. Why should they get so much off the tax payer? I think a 33% cut should be implemented. Mybe no cut for the 1st 6 months to get adjusted but then cut by a 3rd. Might be unpopular but would make people stop sitting around getting soft money and go get a job. Everybody should be able to get a job within 6 months of unemployment.

Another stupid thread!!!

I worked for 26 years in a row I paid tax and prsi for all of those years. I was made redundant last year and was on the dole for 5 months. I managed to get myself a job.

While I was on the dole i got 380 euro to pay my bills and feed my family.
It was enough to keep us above water. I got a job and don't earn a lot more than that now but we survive.

The dole done its job for me, kept me in the black until i could pay for myself again.
Nobody knows what the future brings for them and who knows when they will end up on the dole.

Its not just for scumbag, lowlife, spongers.

Its for ordinary people who fall victim to todays situation.

Get off your high horse. You could be unemployed anyday. Self employed or not!!

naughto

thetonynator wrote: »

If you're going to make stupid comments without any reason or backup, at least make something interesting or funny.





So at what point does the dole stop? Never. You are entitled to dole until the day you become entitled for state pension. So clearly you are worng here not me.




Where did you work for that money? Minimum wage is .63 or so, so if you were working for that money you were probably drawing the dole as well, which is illegal.




People move jobs, new shops open, people retire, there are part time jobs and 3 days a week jobs avialble, where you can draw the dole for the days that you don't work.



Can you point out some money that doesnt go back into the economy? Even savings are eventually spent. Also, does all your money go into the irish economy? Do you only buy irish goods and services? Cos i know mine don't. Its impossible for you to do that, so lots of your dole money leaves the irish economy.

u must have a good job to be able to talk sh1te like this.u are prob one of thoes who was handed every thing in there life

baldbear

Before any cuts are implemented all politicians should take a 20-40% cut. They must lead by example. I think 5% would be fair, anymore would be a real killer to people.

thetonynator

brian ireland wrote: »

Another "muppet" thread Poster

I worked for 26 years in a row I paid tax and prsi for all of those years. I was made redundant last year and was on the dole for 5 months. I managed to get myself a job.

While I was on the dole i got 380 euro to pay my bills and feed my family.
It was enough to keep us above water. I got a job and don't earn a lot more than that now but we survive.

The dole done its job for me, kept me in the black until i could pay for myself again.
Nobody knows what the future brings for them and who knows when they will end up on the dole.

Its not just for scumbag, lowlife, spongers.

Its for ordinary people who fall victim to todays situation.

Get off your high horse. You could be unemployed anyday. Self employed or not!!

Yours is the perfect example, get the high rate for a few months, give you a chance to get back on your feet, sort out repayments and expenditure and get a job. The problem is that there are so many people on the dole who do fall into the scumbags category, who are doing nixers preventing others form getting the jobs that would be there instead.

namloc1980

The dole was €165 in 2006 before things went pear shaped. The country simply can't afford the current level of dole payments. A return to 2006 levels should be looked at.

RichardAnd

johnn wrote: »

What happened to making them sweep the streets etc for it? I thought that was a positive step being taken by the government but of course it came to nothing :rolleyes: I'd wager most of them on it for over a year could have gotten work if they tried.

I recall that being announced and, like you, I have heard nothing more about it since. However, it was actually something that I wasn't adamant to see. This is simply because if "work for yer dole" was a reality then the people sent out working probably wouldnt' be the welfare scroungers and the junkies but the real unemployed; those who are able to work but can't find a job.

I dunno. To me, I think that the unemployed should be given some dignity as it is an utterly soul destroying thing to be without work when you are willing and able. Making people sweep streets and clean gutters when they have paid tax for years just doesn't seem right to me. But that's just my opinion.

As to dole cuts well it's obvious we can't afford to keep it at its current level so something has to be done. Threads like this will, of course, generate nonsensical posts by complete fools who call for 100% cuts to dole but these are likely just looking to spread acrimony. Thus, we can only speculate but my own call, something along the likes of 20-30%.

brian ireland

thetonynator wrote: »

Yours is the perfect example, get the high rate for a few months, give you a chance to get back on your feet, sort out repayments and expenditure and get a job. The problem is that there are so many people on the dole who do fall into the scumbags category, who are doing nixers preventing others form getting the jobs that would be there instead.

Ok so got after those people.

Don't tolerate sweeping statements about people who collect the dole.

naughto

but the cost of living is not the say as it was in 2006

fergiesfav

brian ireland wrote: »

Another stupid thread!!!

I worked for 26 years in a row I paid tax and prsi for all of those years. I was made redundant last year and was on the dole for 5 months. I managed to get myself a job.

While I was on the dole i got 380 euro to pay my bills and feed my family.
It was enough to keep us above water. I got a job and don't earn a lot more than that now but we survive.

The dole done its job for me, kept me in the black until i could pay for myself again.
Nobody knows what the future brings for them and who knows when they will end up on the dole.

Its not just for scumbag, lowlife, spongers.

Its for ordinary people who fall victim to todays situation.

Get off your high horse. You could be unemployed anyday. Self employed or not!!

So you were able to get a job within 6 months thus proving my point!!

I feel sorry for people struggling on welfare but the simple fact is the country is broke we can't afford this bill anymore. The welfare isn't this good in any other country

Humans eh!

Where did you work for that money? Minimum wage is .63 or so, so if you were working for that money you were probably drawing the dole as well, which is illegal.




People move jobs, new shops open, people retire, there are part time jobs and 3 days a week jobs avialble, where you can draw the dole for the days that you don't work.



Can you point out some money that doesnt go back into the economy? Even savings are eventually spent. Also, does all your money go into the irish economy? Do you only buy irish goods and services? Cos i know mine don't. Its impossible for you to do that, so lots of your dole money leaves the irish economy.[/QUOTE]


Your 3 points
1) Before I signed on. With the promise of a full time job to build up a business, I had faith in the person at the time and believed that they were going to give me a job!

2) Yes I know. OP suggests that the days that you sign on for are cut by 33% no matter how many they are.

3) What? The OP suggested that the unemployed did not put anything into the economy thats what I was answering. therefore your wages and tax money are leaving the Irish economy too ?????
Whats your point? Better not buy that non Irish banana then!

namloc1980

naughto wrote: »

but the cost of living is not the say as it was in 2006

Well according to the CSO the Consumer Price Index is currently 1.8% higher now than 2006....yet the dole is 19% higher now than 2006. source

brian ireland

johnn wrote: »

What happened to making them sweep the streets etc for it? I thought that was a positive step being taken by the government but of course it came to nothing :rolleyes: I'd wager most of them on it for over a year could have gotten work if they tried.

Sweep the street? Its that like pay for your sins?
FFS, Kop on.
Lots of people get paid every week to do this! It's their job!!!

You people would want to get off your Ivory Towers and stop deeming workers and their jobs.

What do you do? you obviously don't sweep streets ( only for riffraff)

Think before you type.

Trust me the dole is only a heartbeat away.

zootroid

namloc1980 wrote: »

The dole was €165 in 2006 before things went pear shaped. The country simply can't afford the current level of dole payments. A return to 2006 levels should be looked at.

It is this argument that makes all others redundant. We simply can't afford it.

Increase the higher rate of tax to 50%

brian ireland

fergiesfav wrote: »

So you were able to get a job within 6 months thus proving my point!!

I feel sorry for people struggling on welfare but the simple fact is the country is broke we can't afford this bill anymore. The welfare isn't this good in any other country

We can't afford lots of stuff. Government Jets, FAS, Yada yada yada.
Why are the people who have paid much and lost loads your target?

Fight against the big boys and see how you fair. NOT!

fergiesfav

rarnes1 wrote: »

Increase the higher rate of tax to 50%

A third tax band starting at 75000 cold have this rate

margo321

Before deciding on cuts to normal working people I think those who collected and spent taxes for the last number of years should be held accountable for their actions. How has the recession affected our politians? Thank God they have the public to pay their bar bills, their drivers, their expenses. Maybe if we cut from the poor the politicians would have more money so they could stay in fancier hotels on their travels or maybe hire a back up chauffeur in case the main driver is sick. It is the job of politians to provide a stable economic environment and instead more and more people have lost their jobs and eventually their homes. These people should be helped the government. I agree cuts need to be made but the cuts should be made from the top down. How can people live on less than 200 a week. An increase in homelessness is just the press the country needs at the moment.

namloc1980

brian ireland wrote: »

We can't afford lots of stuff. Government Jets, FAS, Yada yada yada.
Why are the people who have paid much and lost loads your target?

Fight against the big boys and see how you fair. NOT!

Flogging the Govt jet might raise a couple of million. Not gonna solve our problems. We need to cut our costs. Simple as that.

Laisurg

I know some people do abuse the dole and don't even look for a job but at the moment when the economy is in such a state and even people with degrees are out of work and cant find a job its just not practical to cut it.

brian ireland

namloc1980 wrote: »

Flogging the Govt jet might raise a couple of million. Not gonna solve our problems. We need to cut our costs. Simple as that.

And when did I suggest that?

RichardAnd

Laisurg wrote: »

I know some people do abuse the dole and don't even look for a job but at the moment when the economy is in such a state and even people with degrees are out of work and cant find a job its just not practical to cut it.

I know a few like that too. The constant rejections and being totally ignored finally got to them and they just stopped looking altogether. It's not really what the dole is supposed to be for but I don't think little of them for giving up. The ability of a person to keep going when they are trying to climb a steep in in the rain will eventually give way.

namloc1980

Laisurg wrote: »

I know some people do abuse the dole and don't even look for a job but at the moment when the economy is in such a state and even people with degrees are out of work and cant find a job its just not practical to cut it.

Given that the IMF are here there can be no untouchable sacred cows. The country is on the verge of going bust. Cuts have to be made.

yosemite_sam

I live in a small town in the west of Ireland, and you should see the abuse of the welfare system that goes on here. A career choice for a lot of people, the last year I could have done with the dole but I would not be eligible.

thetonynator

rarnes1 wrote: »

Increase the higher rate of tax to 50%

Maybe so, but there arent enough high earners in this country for this to work. The simple truth is: The dols HAS to go down one way or another. The question here is: How much?

johnn

brian cowen wrote: »

Sweep the street? Its that like pay for your sins?
FFS, Kop on.
Lots of people get paid every week to do this! It's their job!!!

You people would want to get off your Ivory Towers and stop deeming workers and their jobs.

What do you do? you obviously don't sweep streets ( only for riffraff)

Think before you type.

Trust me the dole is only a heartbeat away.

Why did the government even mention this then if they had no intention of implementing it? To scare the people who were actually claiming for no good reason into getting up off their arses and working most likely, as they don't want to do the chores lined up for them by the government.

I think most honest unemployed people would like to think they are making a positive contribution to the community & keeping the streets clean, being out in the morning amongst all of us who actually have to make our way to work (rather than in bed til midday) would make them feel like they are at least doing something useful, and at least if us workers see them out cleaning we can say fair enough they're earning their keep.

Lads at the end of the day, fair is fair.

thetonynator

naughto wrote: »

u must have a good job to be able to talk sh1te like this.u are prob one of thoes who was handed every thing in there life

The people who are getting handed everything are the ones on the dole. Not the ones paying tax.
Don't accuse people of anything for talking sense.