Birth Or Not: Couple seek online opinions on whether to abort or not.

Giselle

This is preying on my mind since seeing it on the morning news. A couple who are currently in the 17th week of pregnancy are canvassing opinions online to help them decide whether or not to abort. They're 'unsure' as to whether or not they're ready to be parents.

I've mixed feelings about abortion. Very early abortion, before the six week mark, is much more acceptable to me than late-term abortions but I'm still not 'pro' abortion. Generally the whole subject is one that I find difficult, I hate even thinking about it.

What I think of these two would be - or would not be - parents is pretty negative. If they decide to abort, I think its a decision that could or should have been made a lot sooner in the pregnancy.

If they carry their child to term, it gets to live with the knowledge that the world at large helped decide if their life was worth continuing. They'll know their parents were so ambivilent that they needed the support of strangers to have their child.

Here's a link to their site, called Birth Or Not.
http://www.birthornot.com/

This isn't so much a thread about abortion, I'm more interested in opinions about this couple looking for your online vote on whether or not they have this child. Is it acceptable in a world where people announce their every mood as a Facebook Status update? Or is it attention seeking behaviour by immature individuals? Does it trivialise the future of an unborn child?

You can vote and choose whether we abort or keep our unborn child. For the first time, your vote on the topic of abortion can make a difference.

coffee_cake

It's a hoax afaik

Novella

That's absolutely horrible. Who actually does that? It's not something trivial like, "Oh, will we get a wooden floor or carpet?" or "Chicken or beef, which tastes better?". (Where do I come up with these examples?!) Seriously though, imo, they don't even deserve to be parents. And an abortion at 17 weeks? Could they not have had a think about this sooner, no? I think it's sick and they should be ashamed of themselves.

Pembily

I fcuking hope it's a hoax :mad: I'm not anti or pro, it depends on the circumstances but that is an utter disgrace

MagicMarker

For the sake of the baby, I hope they abort.

Absolutely fúcking ridiculous. I see after glancing over the blog that she miscarried previously. You'd think if they weren't sure if they're ready to be parents they'd stop getting pregnant.

metrovelvet

I had some problems navigating the site and trying to read exactly what was going with these guys.

There are two problems I have with this [outside of the whole abortion question].

The first is the exhibitionism of it. I know now with twitter and facebook etc etc there barely goes one unarticulated thought by some people. Honestly, I see this as an articulation of how bad it has gotten, that there is no offstage anymore and there is no privacy anymore and while some advocates such as Caroline Kennedy are fighting for our rights to privacy you have this kind of thing being done by people who clearly have no sense of privacy.

Secondly, is choice. How old are these people. It's interesting to me that they ask others, strangers on an internet to vote and make a decision for them [I see this on PI in certain regards - not exactly a vote- but people asking strangers who dont know them, dont know their lives, etc to make life changing decisions for them.]. As much as everyone cries out for choice, it strikes me that choice has become a burden because we have so much of it [when I walk into my supermarket at home and see 57 types of yogurts or even a Starbucks, with the semi skimmed foamed milk half java half decaf columbian, 1 sugar, 1 sweet and low, and a half a sprinkle of cinnamon and two small shavings of sugar free dark chocolate I get overwhelmed and walk out] and here you have a couple who have choices but don't want to make them. They want others to do it for them. How different is this from an advice column really?

I didnt read enough to judge what kind of parents they would be and even if I did I still couldn't judge. Your children change you. People you might think are good parents end up terrible and the reverse is true too. And ultimately that is not really the question here.

No one knows what the future holds or of 15 years down the line what the web will be like and what the grown up kids will think if they read this poll. If they are pro choice well then it shouldn't matter to them. They shouldn't be too offended.

metrovelvet

Novella wrote: »

That's absolutely horrible. Who actually does that? It's not something trivial like, "Oh, will we get a wooden floor or carpet?" or "Chicken or beef, which tastes better?". (Where do I come up with these examples?!) Seriously though, imo, they don't even deserve to be parents. And an abortion at 17 weeks? Could they not have had a think about this sooner, no? I think it's sick and they should be ashamed of themselves.

Life is cheap. Its all about choice. Who are you to judge? :rolleyes: {note sarcastic tone}

Novella

metrovelvet wrote: »

Life is cheap. Its all about choice. Who are you to judge? :rolleyes: {note sarcastic tone}

Sorry, you've lost me...

Giselle

@Bluewolf, I hope its a hoax, but its just been discussed on CNN which gives it some credibility.

Another disgusting aspect is that they're inviting votes up til the 9th of December so they can avail of the upper abortion time limit if the vote goes in favour of abortion.

That means they'll abort an unborn child of 20 weeks. A few more weeks and the child would be independently viable.:(

metrovelvet

Giselle wrote: »

@Bluewolf, I hope its a hoax, but its just been discussed on CNN which gives it some credibility.

Another disgusting aspect is that they're inviting votes up til the 9th of December so they can avail of the upper abortion time limit if the vote goes in favour of abortion.

That means they'll abort an unborn child of 20 weeks. A few more weeks and the child would be independently viable.:(

People abort all the time at that stage. This is not news. They don't see it as a life.

Giselle

metrovelvet wrote: »

People abort all the time at that stage. This is not news. They don't see it as a life.

I get that Metro, although I don't really understand it.

Its the canvassing the opinions of strangers that bugs me. The inability to make the choice themselves and the lateness of the decision.

I think this from your earlier post:

it strikes me that choice has become a burden because we have so much of it

probably sums up how they arrived at this point.

metrovelvet

They procrastinated and now this is where they are. They may as well flip a coin.

southsiderosie

I'm pro-choice, but this website is sickening. Who posts their ultrasounds and talks about fetal development - they are already calling it "Baby Wiggles" - and then seriously considers having an abortion, much less going on to ask the world to 'help' them decide? I hope to God this is a hoax.

Susie_Q

It's a hoax.

http://www.ministryoftruth.me.uk/2010/11/18/birth-or-not-busted-site-linked-to-climate-change-denier-site/

Giselle

Susie_Q wrote: »

It's a hoax.

http://www.ministryoftruth.me.uk/2010/11/18/birth-or-not-busted-site-linked-to-climate-change-denier-site/

I'm relieved, but it still speaks volumes about society that so many of us took it as real.

It many not have happened yet, but somehow I'm sure it will in the not too distant future.

metrovelvet

Giselle wrote: »

I'm relieved, but it still speaks volumes about society that so many of us took it as real.

It many not have happened yet, but somehow I'm sure it will in the not too distant future.

Once you have live beheadings on the interweb, anything goes.

mrsdewinter

If they are pro-life trollers, it's ironic that their hoax does nothing more than further the cause of retrospective abortion...

krudler

Giselle wrote: »

I'm relieved, but it still speaks volumes about society that so many of us took it as real.

It many not have happened yet, but somehow I'm sure it will in the not too distant future.

They could start a facebook page, see how many likes each one gets to vote on it.

Holybejaysus

Welcome to 2010 folks, where fame at any price is morally and culturally welcomed...
Tune in next week when a 13 year old auctions off her virginity.

Maple

I think this is quite possibly the most callous thing I have ever heard of.

metrovelvet

I don't find this in anyway shocking. Ok the days where you could still get a second trimester abortion are still fresh in my memory and plenty of girls did either because they procrastinated or because they lived in denial for months.

It is also pretty normal in a crisis pregnancy for one or both of the parties to offload on their peers and family and take a kind of vote although it is not formalised or presented like that.

The only difference here is its public and its strangers. The world has gone public made. This is within the norms of what most of the world is doing, except for the oddball like me who wont abdicate to facebook and twitter.

Sontag was right. "All is surface."

Giselle

metrovelvet wrote: »

This is within the norms of what most of the world is doing, except for the oddball like me who wont abdicate to facebook and twitter.

You're not the only oddball. I had a facebook account for about six months, then realised that I just didn't care about anyones 'status'. If anyone really wants me to know something important, they'll call me.

I deleted the account and reclaimed the free time instead.

Twitter is worse, and I was never tempted.

metrovelvet

Giselle wrote: »

You're not the only oddball. I had a facebook account for about six months, then realised that I just didn't care about anyones 'status'. If anyone really wants me to know something important, they'll call me.

I deleted the account and reclaimed the free time instead.

Twitter is worse, and I was never tempted.

I gave facebook 3 days. That was enough. Jesus Christ. People on their blackberries while driving posting every goddamned move a Yankee made on the pitch, their dog has the sniffles, friend requests from people twenty years ago that you know are going to go nowhere, someone else just farted, oh god the exchange rate,so and so just sent you a cocktail. What is the point?

If you cant pick up the phone to call me, you are not my friend.

I hate facebook. I hope it crashes.

christina_x

The fact that they cant choose shows that they dont want this child..its forming now. They should give it to a family who are desperate for a baby instead of killing it

strobe

Novella wrote: »

That's absolutely horrible. Who actually does that? It's not something trivial like, "Oh, will we get a wooden floor or carpet?" or "Chicken or beef, which tastes better?". (Where do I come up with these examples?!) Seriously though, imo, they don't even deserve to be parents. And an abortion at 17 weeks? Could they not have had a think about this sooner, no? I think it's sick and they should be ashamed of themselves.

I agree with you almost wholesale.

But it has me thinking. If people agree with abortion at 17/18/19 weeks then why not do what this couple have done (pretending they were real and they would take care of any kid they did have, which seems to be the implication)? If it is just a bunch of cells, then is it any different than some guy going online and asking people if he should donate his sperm or not? I could get the objection from people that hold the opinion that it is a human life there and affords the rights of a human, but I just can't really get the 'outrage' (wrong word but I can't think of the right one) from people that would view the fetus as being not a human.

Little help?

metrovelvet

strobe wrote: »

I agree with you almost wholesale.

But it has me thinking. If people agree with abortion at 17/18/19 weeks then why not do what this couple have done (pretending they were real and they would take care of any kid they did have, which seems to be the implication)? If it is just a bunch of cells, then is it any different than some guy going online and asking people if he should donate his sperm or not? I could get the objection from people that hold the opinion that it is a human life there and affords the rights of a human, but I just can't really get the 'outrage' (wrong word but I can't think of the right one) from people that would view the fetus as being not a human.

Little help?

I have trouble understanding this too. If it's just a bunch of cells, what's the big deal? Its on par with asking how you should pluck your eyebrows?

[I do recognise there are pro choice people who acknowledge that it is a deeply ethical problem, but many do not.]

myshka

I am utterly pro choice..although i am of the opinion that the limit on abortions should be 13 weeks.thats just over 4 months.
but it is not my position to judge someone what they should do with their body and lives.
in the uk you can get and abortion up to 26 weeks. although i have watched documentaries on this harrowing subject and feel slightly queasy about it. the reason it exists is because in many cases the women who are deciding to abort in the first place have a massive guilt placed on themselves not only by society but by themselves, and also face a lifetime of dealing with having done it.
They may have decided initally to go through with the pregnancy but later panicked and realised they were not capable of being a parent for many reasons.
to go through with a life changing experience of feeling something grow inside you, watching your body change and dealing with a tidal wave of hormones and also deal with the world feeling they can judge on your decision is an emmense thing. let alone how we judge ourselves.
this choice is not something thats taken lightly by the people who are involved in performing the process. Nor do I think in most cases it is taken lightly by the women who choose to go through with it.
I think as women it is easy to cast our own aspursions on what others choose to do. but then ive never been pregnant. And i honestly have no idea what i would feel or do if i did become so.

In relation to the website its a perfect example of how peoples lives are now carried out over the web.
maybe they wanted the attention.
maybe they are morons.
maybe they wanted to create a frenzy around such a serious topic to get people thinking.
i dunno.

Scarinae

It's fake, the guy is an anti-abortion campaigner. I think he was trying to make a point, although I'm a bit confused as to what it is - does he think that people who are pro-choice would automatically vote to terminate a complete stranger's pregnancy? It is a complete misunderstanding as to what pro-choice actually means

pickarooney

I like that the guy who exposed it finally is called Jeff Fecke.