legalise prostitution, another 500+ jobs yey :)

Elevator

I don't see why the oldest profession in the world has to remain underground in Ireland when the gambling industry can enjoy tax free status and exploit a large number of people day in day out everywhere!!

at least when ya drop some cash in the brothel you're a winner everytime

I cannot see the excitment of handing your hard earned cash over to someone for a worthless piece of paper!!

Sticky_Fingers

Elevator wrote: »

I don't see why the oldest profession in the world has to remain underground in Ireland when the gambling industry can enjoy tax free status and exploit a large number of people day in day out everywhere!!

at least when ya drop some cash in the brothel you're a winner everytime

I cannot see the excitment of handing your hard earned cash over to someone for a worthless piece of paper!!

And maybe walk out with a bonus STD:P In all seriousness though I have no problem with prostitution been legalised just as long as it is properly regulated and all parties taking part are consenting adults.

Dun laoire

20 notes on sunderland to beat Chelsea @ 12/1.

great ride!

Elevator

Dun laoire wrote: »

20 notes on sunderland to beat Chelsea @ 12/1.

great ride!

yes but people lose a lot more than they win over the years

nice bet btw

AnonoBoy

I thought the oldest profession in the world was accountancy for years when I was a young lad.

My Dad's accountant was ancient.

smokedeels

Legalise and regulate it. It would make it safer for all involved and "Sex Workers" would have to pay income tax and and charge VAT for their services. Makes sense imo.

Elevator

Elevator wrote: »

yes but people lose a lot more than they win over the years

nice bet btw

Spending a few hundred on whores every now and then is hardly a sound investment either is it :rolleyes:

Bottle_of_Smoke

It is already legal. Advertise through a UK site you are not committing any crime letting a guy stick his length in your clunge for money.

I wonder if people realised this would they be more likely to have it regulated (and therefore taxable, which obviously the whores don't ant to happen)

oeb

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »

It is already legal. Advertise through a UK site you are not committing any crime letting a guy stick his length in your clunge for money.

Yup, it's only solicitation and pimping and the like is illegal.

Duggy747

Good grief, could you imagine the picket lines scouring with feminists and religious types?

Go up to them, pull out your wallet and ask how much for quick handjob? :pac:

Elevator

RoverJames wrote: »

Spending a few hundred on whores every now and then is hardly a sound investment either is it :rolleyes:

if bookies ran brothels you'd be dropping your cash with a chance of a ride

everyone's a winner in a brothel

how many win in the bookies? and if you could add up all cash spent and won for everyone that ever gambled then I'm sure the madness of it all ould be revealed

Gunsfortoys

So OP, you would rather see a profession which causes great risk to peoples health legalised, rather than jobs created in the entertainment industry? Unreal.

humanji

This made me giggle, anyway.

Elevator

Gunsfortoys wrote: »

So OP, you would rather see a profession which causes great risk to peoples health legalised, rather than jobs created in the entertainment industry? Unreal.

how is it a risk to peoples health if it's regulated and brazzers are tested regularly for stds? there is plenty of evidence of prostitution working when it's legalised and it's a totally natural thing to have sex!!

gambling now falls under entertainment does it? entertaining for the bookies and those who have just one a ton and only to lose it and more in future bets!!

see gambling is held together by the monatery system which you could argue isn't very natural really is it

money has done nothing but bad things to us all and gambling doesn't make it any better either, sure even when someone wins that can have a serious negative effect on that person as they've got the taste of the illusion of success and might risk more in the long run to experience it again

Gunsfortoys

Elevator wrote: »

how is it a risk to peoples health if it's regulated and brazzers are tested regularly for stds? there is plenty of evidence of prostitution working when it's legalised and it's a totally natural thing to have sex!!

gambling now falls under entertainment does it? entertaining for the bookies and those who have just one a ton and only to lose it and more in future bets!!

see gambling is held together by the monatery system which you could argue isn't very natural really is it

money has done nothing but bad things to us all and gambling doesn't make it any better either, sure even when someone wins that can have a serious negative effect on that person as they've got the taste of the illusion of success and might risk more in the long run to experience it again

Prostitution can cause great physical and mental health disorders.

Gambling is like everything else, enjoy it in moderation.

Elevator

Gunsfortoys wrote: »

Prostitution can cause great physical and mental health disorders.

Gambling is like everything else, enjoy it in moderation.

yes but I'd say there's more damage in underground prostitution than legal?

the very nature of the act means that in the right environment both parties are enjoying a true pleasure and hurting nobody (bdsm excluded cos we all know for some pain is pleasure but that's for another topic)

Gunsfortoys

Elevator wrote: »

yes but I'd say there's more damage in underground prostitution than legal?

the very nature of the act means that in the right environment both parties are enjoying a true pleasure and hurting nobody (bdsm excluded cos we all know for some pain is pleasure but that's for another topic)

Would you rather gambling made illegal and made to go underground then? You are talking about legalising prostitution but you want to make gambling illegal. Bit Ironic don't you think?

Nijmegen

Good debate. I'm not sure what to say about it, there are good arguments both way.

But in terms of STD's, I read recently that in Munich - where prostitution is more heavily regulated than in other areas of Germany, with regular STD checks etc - the prostitutes have an STD rate half that of the general population. I suppose they're always switched on, versus meeting a randomer in a club.

The tax benefits is an upswing, as is removing the criminal elements and making it a legal business.

On the downside is the hidden cost of prostitution... Though there are arguments to be made that women can make a choice, and in a more regulated industry it's harder to force in people to work in it.

Enie, meanie, miney, mo on regulating it. Could be a fair argument to say 'If we keep it illegal because it's harmful, let's ban alcohol and tobacco.'

Anyways, a debate worth having.

smokedeels

can't we have both?

Sticky_Fingers

Gunsfortoys wrote: »

Prostitution can cause great physical and mental health disorders.

Gambling is like everything else, enjoy it in moderation.

Since when does consensual sex between two adults cause physical harm and mental distress? Lets get down to the bare bones, its a business arrangement, nothing more nothing less. Does paying a masseuse (the legal kind) cause these disorders, no. How about a maid, someone who has to scrub the skidmarks off you toilet bowl, unlikely. Then how would paying someone to engage in a completely natural physical act cause any lasting damage to anyone?

As long as the industry is properly regulated and everyone involved knows what they are getting into then I see no problem with it.

Wompa1

Nijmegen wrote: »

Good debate. I'm not sure what to say about it, there are good arguments both way.

But in terms of STD's, I read recently that in Munich - where prostitution is more heavily regulated than in other areas of Germany, with regular STD checks etc - the prostitutes have an STD rate half that of the general population. I suppose they're always switched on, versus meeting a randomer in a club.

The tax benefits is an upswing, as is removing the criminal elements and making it a legal business.

On the downside is the hidden cost of prostitution... Though there are arguments to be made that women can make a choice, and in a more regulated industry it's harder to force in people to work in it.

Enie, meanie, miney, mo on regulating it. Could be a fair argument to say 'If we keep it illegal because it's harmful, let's ban alcohol and tobacco.'

Anyways, a debate worth having.

Ban alcohol? Then what would we do for entertainment? Your radical thinking scares and confuses me

Gunsfortoys

Sticky_Fingers wrote: »

Since when does consensual sex between two adults cause physical harm and mental distress? Lets get down to the bare bones, its a business arrangement, nothing more nothing less. Does paying a masseuse (the legal kind) cause these disorders, no. How about a maid, someone who has to scrub the skidmarks off you toilet bowl, unlikely. Then how would paying someone to engage in a completely natural physical act cause any lasting damage to anyone?

As long as the industry is properly regulated and everyone involved knows what they are getting into then I see no problem with it.

First of all, I never said prostitution shouldn't be legalised. I was saying that it has risks as well as gambling.

No matter how much something is regulated (alcohol for example), it has risks. If enjoyed in moderation and it is heavily regulated they can be enjoyed.

Which is why both should be legal and heavily regulated.

Ectoplasm

Elevator wrote: »

yes but I'd say there's more damage in underground prostitution than legal?

the very nature of the act means that in the right environment both parties are enjoying a true pleasure and hurting nobody (bdsm excluded cos we all know for some pain is pleasure but that's for another topic)

ROFL....I'm not sure if you are just naive or taking the p1ss here. Do you really think that prostitutes are 'enjoying a true pleasure'?

I'm not sure where I stand on legalising and regulating prostitution. I like the idea of it because it offers more protection to the women (and men) involved but I'm not convinced that it doesn't cause psychological damage.

I know lots of people say that many prostitutes make the decision to do it, but I don't know anyone who really dreams of this as a career or would want others to know that this is what they do for a living. For most, I imagine they see it as the only way they can make money, so they are economically 'forced' to do it. I'm sure there are people who do consciously make the decision, I just think that they are the minority and for many, they'd rather be doing anything else than selling themselves.

smokedeels

Everyone needs a vice, they make life tolerable (for some) and moderation is the key to avoid them destroying you, be it financially or physically. I see this argument a lot; people debating which ones should be legal and which should be banned. I feel banning a vice and relegating and it to the underground doesn't dispel peoples desires to indulge in it certainly doesn't make the potential damage it can cause less harmful.

Bringing vice's, be it gambling, prostitution, drugs and alcohol to the mainstream at least lets us ensure they are as safe as possible, we can also review more clearly the levels and frequency of which they are used.

Bottle_of_Smoke

Duggy747 wrote: »

Good grief, could you imagine the picket lines scouring with feminists and religious types?

Go up to them, pull out your wallet and ask how much for quick handjob? :pac:

I dunno. Feminists are so confused about what they believe in I'm not really sure they'd be protesting against or supporting prostitution.

Elevator

@emf2010

they're having sex!! consentual sex with remuneration for one of the parties

I can think of a lot worse ways of making money

do you think prostitution is dirty or shamefull?

Sticky_Fingers

Gunsfortoys wrote: »

First of all, I never said prostitution shouldn't be legalised. I was saying that it has risks as well as gambling.

No matter how much something is regulated (alcohol for example), it has risks. If enjoyed in moderation and it is heavily regulated they can be enjoyed.

Which is why both should be legal and heavily regulated.

Reading this post I take it you are in support of the legalisation of prostitution then?

It has risks but as long as the people engaging in the act are fully aware of them then it is their decision. Every job or activity has its risks, recognised, quantified and understood but what really gets my goat is that currently there are people, primarily women, who are engaging in prostitution without any safeguards or protection from the wider community. I would much rather see these people protected fully, with all its problems and frankly unethical practices which are endemic in the industry brought out into the light and stamped out then to carry on as we are with our heads in the sand thinking that this is not our problem or that these people do not deserve to be recognised because of the life they lead.

Ectoplasm

They're having sex yes....for the umpteenth time that day/night/week. Repeat anything often enough and it ceases to be fun...it's their job, not the recreational pleasure that you or me or anyone else enjoys. Of course their views of sex would change!

Gunsfortoys

Sticky_Fingers wrote: »

Reading this post I take it you are in support of the legalisation of prostitution then?

It has risks but as long as the people engaging in the act are fully aware of them then it is their decision. Every job or activity has its risks, recognisedly, quantified and understood but what really gets my goat is that currently there are people, primarily women, who are engaging in prostitution without any safeguards or protection from the wider community. I would much rather see these people protected fully, with all its problems and frankly unethical practices which are endemic in the industry brought out into the light and stamped out then to carry on as we are with our heads in the sand thinking that this is not our problem or that these people do not deserve to be recognised because of the life they lead.

I agree. Prostitution is unavoidable and will never be wiped out. There is a reason why it is an old profession. By legalising and regulating it you can protect people in the long run. Also by educating them on the risks etc it might make them think twice.

The point I was trying to make, was that the OP was for legalising one thing and making illegal another thing. While both carry a significant amount of risks. An ignorant view in my opinion.

Sticky_Fingers

Prostitutes and gambling for all then, sounds like a hell of a party (just as long as you can afford it)

Brendog

Sticky_Fingers wrote: »

And maybe walk out with a bonus STD:P In all seriousness though I have no problem with prostitution been legalised just as long as it is properly regulated and all parties taking part are consenting adults.

Orgies Galore

Ficheall

RoverJames wrote: »

Spending a few hundred on whores every now and then is hardly a sound investment either is it :rolleyes:

Well, compared to the cost of dating/marrying a woman... I dunno...

Sticky_Fingers

Brendog wrote: »

Orgies Galore

Apologies, I had to let my spellchecker go, there is a recession on you know. Have no fear, I will inform Madame Nippletwist of my unforgivable transgression and will no doubt be punished severely, I can't wait;)

Wompa1

Ficheall wrote: »

Well, compared to the cost of dating/marrying a woman... I dunno...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7HAi0gKZtMA

"A prostitute is like any other woman they all trade something for sex"

EMF2010

EMF2010 wrote: »

I know lots of people say that many prostitutes make the decision to do it, but I don't know anyone who really dreams of this as a career or would want others to know that this is what they do for a living. For most, I imagine they see it as the only way they can make money, so they are economically 'forced' to do it. I'm sure there are people who do consciously make the decision, I just think that they are the minority and for many, they'd rather be doing anything else than selling themselves.

I don't think people grow up dreaming of working in McDonalds or a cubicle farm. I also don't think people working in Anglo for example would want anyone to know about it :pac:

Sticky_Fingers wrote: »

I would much rather see these people protected fully, with all its problems and frankly unethical practices which are endemic in the industry brought out into the light and stamped out then to carry on as we are with our heads in the sand thinking that this is not our problem or that these people do not deserve to be recognised because of the life they lead.

Stamp it out then carry on as we are?
:pac:

Overheal

It's a pretty controversial thing to do for the sake of only ~500 jobs. And unlikely to happen in such a religiously conservative country. And thats not saying Ireland is all that religiously conservative, but you have to be really easygoing about these sorts of things before they get through.

Big Nasty

Overheal wrote: »

It's a pretty controversial thing to do for the sake of only ~500 jobs. And unlikely to happen in such a religiously conservative country. And thats not saying Ireland is all that religiously conservative, but you have to be really easygoing about these sorts of things before they get through.

Yes but how many jobs will be created / kept via sex tourism 'knock-off' industries, i.e. pubs, hotels, restaurants, etc.?

ScumLord

As prostitution is already legal it must be regulated. It's a black market that currently pays nothing back to society and turns women into slaves and nothing can be done about it.

I don't like the whole concept of prostitution but I don't think there's really any way to wipe it out. As long as the women know what they're doing and can get out at any time it's up to them what risks they want to take with their bodies.

Regulating it isn't an option, it has to be done.

Overheal

MCMLXXV wrote: »

Yes but how many jobs will be created / kept via sex tourism 'knock-off' industries, i.e. pubs, hotels, restaurants, etc.?

I don't think the country could be more saturated with pubs if you tried.

You have to remember where you are too. Did you forget about the porn shop that everyone went all Joe Duffy on a year or two ago? You could promise ten million in taxes every year but this still wouldn't fly.

Big Nasty

Overheal wrote: »

I don't think the country could be more saturated with pubs if you tried.

You have to remember where you are too. Did you forget about the porn shop that everyone went all Joe Duffy on a year or two ago? You could promise ten million in taxes every year but this still wouldn't fly.

Hospitality industry is fecked. Boost in tourism would help it recover.

That was Anne Summers you were talking about when they opened in O' Connell Street - article about them this week in the Indo saying how times have changed, that they sell 2.5mill 'toys' a rear and their best seller is the 'Rabbit'!

(So there!:p)

Sticky_Fingers

MCMLXXV wrote: »

sell 2.5mill 'toys' a rear and their best seller is the 'Rabbit'!

(So there!:p)

Thats one bunny I won't mind following down the hole:pac:

strobe

EMF2010 wrote: »

I know lots of people say that many prostitutes make the decision to do it, but I don't know anyone who really dreams of this as a career or would want others to know that this is what they do for a living. For most, I imagine they see it as the only way they can make money, so they are economically 'forced' to do it. I'm sure there are people who do consciously make the decision, I just think that they are the minority and for many, they'd rather be doing anything else than selling themselves.

A bit like Tesco checkout employees then? Or, ye know, a huge percentage of the other jobs in the world. Or do people grow up dreaming of a career in cleaning toilets? Let's be honest here, a huge chunk of the population are not doing the job they dreamed of doing when they were kids and are instead doing a job they were economically 'forced' to do and would probably be anywhere else in the world during an average work day.

ScumLord

strobe wrote: »

A bit like Tesco checkout employees then? Or, ye know, a huge percentage of the other jobs in the world. Or do people grow up dreaming of a career in cleaning toilets? Let's be honest here, a huge chunk of the population are not doing the job they dreamed of doing when they were kids and are instead doing a job they were economically 'forced' to do and would probably be anywhere else in the world during an average work day.

But... But... Mammy said I was special?

Ectoplasm

strobe wrote: »

A bit like Tesco checkout employees then? Or, ye know, a huge percentage of the other jobs in the world. Or do people grow up dreaming of a career in cleaning toilets? Let's be honest here, a huge chunk of the population are not doing the job they dreamed of doing when they were kids and are instead doing a job they were economically 'forced' to do and would probably be anywhere else in the world during an average work day.

Yeah I may have phrased it badly, but what I was trying to get across was that I question how many people really, freely choose to do this and even with those that do, I don't see it as something that is likely to be giving the prostitute 'true pleasure'. I was responding more to that than anything else - I don't really have a huge issue with prostitution per se.

There is a difference between working in Tesco's or cleaning toilets and selling your body though. Or are you honestly telling me you see no difference between them? The risk vs reward here is completely different. Could you, hand on heart say that it's a job you'd like to see your mother, your sister, your friend doing? Maybe you'd be fine with it, maybe you see no difference between the two but I do.

EMF2010

EMF2010 wrote: »

Could you, hand on heart say that it's a job you'd like to see your mother, your sister, your friend doing? Maybe you'd be fine with it, maybe you see no difference between the two but I do.

Why is this always the argument?
"I think it's icky so I think they shouldn't do it"?
What if I'm from a family of engineers and I don't want to see my sister being a broke painter? What if my mother is in a loving relationship and I don't want to think of her doing it at all!?

If someone is happy doing what they do and happy in themselves doing it then off they go.

strobe

EMF2010 wrote: »

Yeah I may have phrased it badly, but what I was trying to get across was that I question how many people really, freely choose to do this and even with those that do, I don't see it as something that is likely to be giving the prostitute 'true pleasure'. I was responding more to that than anything else - I don't really have a huge issue with prostitution per se.

There is a difference between working in Tesco's or cleaning toilets and selling your body though. Or are you honestly telling me you see no difference between them? The risk vs reward here is completely different. Could you, hand on heart say that it's a job you'd like to see your mother, your sister, your friend doing? Maybe you'd be fine with it, maybe you see no difference between the two but I do.

Ahh well as for the 'true pleasure' thing, yeah I thought that was ridiculous too.

But you speak about risk vs reward. This as far as I can see would be an obvious reason why a girl might choose to be a prostitute vs a tesco checkout girl. Greater risk but far far far greater reward. I know of no tesco workers that earn €1000+ a week. I do know one prostitute that earns that easily. I'm sure if she could earn that money in Tesco's she would, but she obviously can't. Not sure what the average earnings from prostitution are but I'd imagine even the cheapest charging crack ho in SC LA can earn more a week than she would cleaning toilets.

Ectoplasm

bluewolf wrote: »

Why is this always the argument?
"I think it's icky so I think they shouldn't do it"?
What if I'm from a family of engineers and I don't want to see my sister being a broke painter? What if my mother is in a loving relationship and I don't want to think of her doing it at all!?

If someone is happy doing what they do and happy in themselves doing it then off they go.

You know what, I never said it was icky, so please don't put words in my mouth. I was asking that to see if the poster really saw no difference between working as a cleaner and working as a prostitute. I said I thought it could be psychologically damaging and I do. I think this because of various things that I have read and seen about prostitution. Show me all the stories of all the happy prostitutes and maybe I'll reevaluate.

The part I highlighted in bold is actually part of the point I was trying to make. I question how many are happy doing what they do and happy in themselves doing it. What is the problem with my doing that?

Ectoplasm

strobe wrote: »

Ahh well as for the 'true pleasure' thing, yeah I thought that was ridiculous too..

Yes, I was saying that it's not a job that people do because of the happy fun sexytimes.

strobe wrote: »

But you speak about risk vs reward. This as far as I can see would be an obvious reason why a girl might choose to be a prostitute vs a tesco checkout girl. Greater risk but far far far greater reward. I know of no tesco workers that earn €1000+ a week. I do know one prostitute that earns that easily. I'm sure if she could earn that money in Tesco's she would, but she obviously can't. Not sure what the average earnings from prostitution are but I'd imagine even the cheapest charging crack ho in SC LA can earn more a week than she would cleaning toilets.

Yeah, many may get far greater reward, but the constant risk of assault or even worse wouldn't, to me, balance things out.

aDeener

surely having to pay for their meal and drinks to get sex later on in the night basically equals prostitution?

EMF2010

EMF2010 wrote: »

You know what, I never said it was icky, so please don't put words in my mouth. I was asking that to see if the poster really saw no difference between working as a cleaner and working as a prostitute. I said I thought it could be psychologically damaging and I do. I think this because of various things that I have read and seen about prostitution. Show me all the stories of all the happy prostitutes and maybe I'll reevaluate.

The part I highlighted in bold is actually part of the point I was trying to make. I question how many are happy doing what they do and happy in themselves doing it. What is the problem with my doing that?

I didn't put words in your mouth, I just find it strange that what you wrote is always the argument. And to me it sounds like what I wrote.

I do think it could be damaging also, I just think it's so underground and everything it's hard to know, and that there are plenty of things we wouldnt want family to do so that comparison doesn't work.

charlemont

Fianna Fail and their supporters have no problem with some sicko raping women or peadophiles abusing children, its a different story when two consenting adults want to exchange money for sex...